UKC

Retiring my BD ATC

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 andyman666999 16 Feb 2014
I have a BD ATC-XP which I have used for light-mod use for probably around 6 years, recently I have started to think that it may require retirement. There is nothing really wrong with it, just wear and tear no real sharp edges although one aluminium groove does feel sharper than the others, whether that is just due to wear of the others I can't be sure.
When do you think it is a good time to retire belays?
 Otis 16 Feb 2014
In reply to andyman666999:

After 6 years of light to moderate use your belay plate will be absolutely fine. They're basically a lump of metal that is put under very, very little stress. They get a bit warm too, but metal is good at coping with that

If there's no obvious distress to it then I'd simply carry on using it. You've done the right thing looking for sharp edges but it sounds like it is fine.

If, on the other hand, you are looking for an excuse to treat yourself to some shiny new kit then I reckon it's probably knackered ;-p

Mike.
 Fraser 16 Feb 2014
In reply to andyman666999:

> When do you think it is a good time to retire belays?

When I no longer have 100% faith in its ability to perform correctly. I've never retired one yet and if I were you, I'd not be retiring yours.

 jon 16 Feb 2014
In reply to Fraser:

> I've never retired one yet and if I were you, I'd not be retiring yours.

Unless of course you REALLY wanted an new one. Shiny therapy...
OP andyman666999 16 Feb 2014
In reply to Otis:

Cheers, yeah that is how I feel, there is nothing obviously wrong with it but I am also aware that you are supposed to retire metalware after a certain period of years. But, they are bomb proof really hence the question.

It is weird, I do like shiny new kit but some pieces I feel attached to and don't want to let go, couldn't for the life of me say why.
 jkarran 16 Feb 2014
In reply to andyman666999:

> Cheers, yeah that is how I feel, there is nothing obviously wrong with it but I am also aware that you are supposed to retire metalware after a certain period of years. But, they are bomb proof really hence the question.

They are bomb-proof and yours appears to be in good nick.. hence I don't really understand the question

My favourite plate is probably about as old as me and in use whenever I'm on half ropes.

If you're not happy with it, replace it. If you are then I'd suggest you save your money.

jk
 Ban1 16 Feb 2014
In reply to andyman666999:

a shiny atc makes you look like a newb! every scratch every nik is a memory of a day out. you can't put it to rest yet. think of the joy its brought you
 AlanLittle 16 Feb 2014
In reply to andyman666999:

> I am also aware that you are supposed to retire metalware after a certain period of years.

IMO that's just CE certification bollocks. I have thirty year old wires on my rack that I have no hesitation about using, and thirty year old krabs that I only use for bail/throwaways - not because I have the slightest concern about their strength, just because modern ones are lighter and easier to clip.
 Monk 16 Feb 2014
In reply to AlanLittle:

Even if it isn't bollocks, the stated lifetime is usually 10 years, so unless there's obvious damage I'd be happy using it. I retired mine recently because the cable retainer snapped. It's still safe to use, but a faff. It was about 15 years old.

The biggest issue with an ATC, is that I had a scary moment with one when belaying a second on one half rope (a chunky old 9mm at that) with a direct line of rope (no bends and a hanging belay) and not much gear to cause friction. I could barely hold on to the rope when she came off! Now I prefer to use one of the more modern devices.
 AlanLittle 17 Feb 2014
In reply to Monk:

Oh, I agree totally that the original ATC is dangerous with modern skinny, slippery ropes. Scrapped mine years ago. But design obsolescence and wear and tear are separate issues, obviously. And the OP was talking about an ATC XP.

What is the mechanism that is supposed to make metal items with no movng parts unsafe to use after ten years?
 damowilk 17 Feb 2014
In reply to andyman666999:

I can't answer for the BD ATC, but for the Petzl reverso the answer is too bloody frequently: I've had a reverso 2,3 and 4 and they all develop an increasingly sharp edge on the side opposite the grooves, to the extent that I've just ordered a BD ATC guide to replace it with, so good to read mostly satisfied comments above.
 Monk 17 Feb 2014
In reply to AlanLittle:


> What is the mechanism that is supposed to make metal items with no movng parts unsafe to use after ten years?

Not sure there is any. In fact, I think that some manufacturers now give longer periods. Certainly, everything I have seen of old gear testing has not shown any weakening with age alone.
 AlanLittle 17 Feb 2014
In reply to damowilk:

Good call. My wife has an ATC Guide and the alloy is much harder than my Reverso
 jimtitt 17 Feb 2014
In reply to AlanLittle:

> IMO that's just CE certification bollocks. I have thirty year old wires on my rack that I have no hesitation about using, and thirty year old krabs that I only use for bail/throwaways - not because I have the slightest concern about their strength, just because modern ones are lighter and easier to clip.

Belay plates aren´t CE marked or anything else but the manufacturers are so used to having to give a life span that they do it anyway. ATC XP´s do wear out, the teeth in the Vee grooves become worn and the braking power is reduced. Unfortunately this is a very slow process and won´t really be noticed by the user. I got one to test that had been retired and it was down by somewhere around 15% but it was used by a climbing instructor and had an extreme amount of wear compared to a normal climber.
 AlanLittle 17 Feb 2014
In reply to jimtitt:

Ah, ok, good point.

But I'm not going to stop using my gen-u-ine small Chouinard stoppers with the <C> stamped on them.
 Martin W 17 Feb 2014
In reply to Monk:

> > What is the mechanism that is supposed to make metal items with no movng parts unsafe to use after ten years?

> Not sure there is any. In fact, I think that some manufacturers now give longer periods. Certainly, everything I have seen of old gear testing has not shown any weakening with age alone.

Black Diamond states that the shelf life of an ATC XP is "indefinite", with wear and tear being the factors that determine its usable life:

The lifespan of your belay device is dependent upon how frequently you use it and on the conditions of its use. With occasional use and proper care the lifespan of a metal product is five to 10 years, with frequent use and proper care the lifespan of a metal product is two to five years, and the shelf life is indefinite.

Inspect your gear for signs of damage and wear before and after each use.

Damaged gear must be retired and destroyed to prevent future use.


Factors that reduce the lifespan of climbing gear: Falls, abrasion, wear, prolonged exposure to sunlight, saltwater/air or harsh environments.

If you have any doubts about the dependability of your gear, retire it.


Reference http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aakn_prd/on/demandware.static/Sites-BlackDi...
 PPP 17 Feb 2014
In reply to andyman666999:

If it was rusty, sharp, cracked or something similar, I would retire it. I think you would do it, too.

The great question is... would you feel safer and better with a brand new and shiny belay device? If so, change it. It's the same with unfamiliar belayer. Although I could have free soloed a route at local wall, I got very scary when I had never been belayed by that person before.
cb294 17 Feb 2014
In reply to PPP:

Retire them, and get the shiny new version...

CB
 Duncan Beard 19 Feb 2014
In reply to andyman666999:

I have an ATC-XP bought because I had a mare lowering a heavy second on my old WC 'Variable Controller'. After a few years light use it did get some burrs on the lower part where it bears on the krab. It's definitely worth checking here occasionally. I polished these off with a fine file & some fine carbide paper. It's the first gen model without lightening holes and a bit heavy. Now I have more experience I usually take my newer plain ATC which is far slicker to pay out quickly when required but also seems to lock ok.

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