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There has been a major loandslide on the west coast of Portland. Some initial details, and links to photos can be seen at :
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=578698
Details are alittle sketchy at the moment, but it is clear that the entire descent slope between Blacknor Far South and Battleship Edge has slid down to the beach. The first few metres of the descent are still there, but they end at the top of a new cliff with no obvious way down.
No-one has reported what effect this has had on the routes at either cliff, but I'd imagine those nearest to the original descent are now unreachable/unclimbable. As you might expect, the whole area around the landslip remains unstable and should be avoided. I've not seen any reports yet, but expect that the council may consider closing the clifftop path.
There are alternative approaches to both cliffs. For BFS, it is still possible to approach from the north via Sharbutts Quarry, but there are reports of the area under the cliff being unstable and, at best, unpleasant. For Battleship and the Back Cliff, approach as for The Verandah - south of Battleship.
If anyone has anything new to report, please leave detaisl on this thread - some more photos of the damage would be great, plus information regarding damage anywhere else on the island.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=578698
Details are alittle sketchy at the moment, but it is clear that the entire descent slope between Blacknor Far South and Battleship Edge has slid down to the beach. The first few metres of the descent are still there, but they end at the top of a new cliff with no obvious way down.
No-one has reported what effect this has had on the routes at either cliff, but I'd imagine those nearest to the original descent are now unreachable/unclimbable. As you might expect, the whole area around the landslip remains unstable and should be avoided. I've not seen any reports yet, but expect that the council may consider closing the clifftop path.
There are alternative approaches to both cliffs. For BFS, it is still possible to approach from the north via Sharbutts Quarry, but there are reports of the area under the cliff being unstable and, at best, unpleasant. For Battleship and the Back Cliff, approach as for The Verandah - south of Battleship.
If anyone has anything new to report, please leave detaisl on this thread - some more photos of the damage would be great, plus information regarding damage anywhere else on the island.
In reply to steve taylor:
Jeez, that's a big one. Guess it was always going to happen this winter though. Guess we will have to wait and see how it cleans up in a few weeks before seeing what the extent of the damage is.
Jeez, that's a big one. Guess it was always going to happen this winter though. Guess we will have to wait and see how it cleans up in a few weeks before seeing what the extent of the damage is.
In reply to steve taylor:
Any chance someone can put the photos somewhere other than Facebook?
Edit, Thanks to Sam.Sam:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=234986
Any chance someone can put the photos somewhere other than Facebook?
Edit, Thanks to Sam.Sam:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=234986
Post edited at 10:35
In reply to balmybaldwin:
I asked that in this thread - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=578698 photo now on here.
I asked that in this thread - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=578698 photo now on here.
Blinkin' flip!
Looks like a nice new arete climb to be done at some point (just to the right of the second ivy patch on BFS). I'm still a bit confused by what is what in this picture though, not being that familiar with the <cough> Verandah...the orange bit of the leaning wall I assume is the back of the Battleship Block (it may even be that 4 star 6c "Welcome to the Gravity Program"?)...but then is the bit immediately behind that the right hand end of BFS?
Anyone any idea which routes define the left and right hand end of the slip? Looks like they will be covered in cr*p for some time.
On another note check the terrain underneath the cliff (especially the north end)...looks like that may move again soon!
Looks like a nice new arete climb to be done at some point (just to the right of the second ivy patch on BFS). I'm still a bit confused by what is what in this picture though, not being that familiar with the <cough> Verandah...the orange bit of the leaning wall I assume is the back of the Battleship Block (it may even be that 4 star 6c "Welcome to the Gravity Program"?)...but then is the bit immediately behind that the right hand end of BFS?
Anyone any idea which routes define the left and right hand end of the slip? Looks like they will be covered in cr*p for some time.
On another note check the terrain underneath the cliff (especially the north end)...looks like that may move again soon!
In reply to Nic:
Hi Nic.
There's a lot of foreshortening in the shot (yes, I think that is the back of Battleship Block on the right side of the photo). The bit behind that might be the Back Cliff, with the rest of Battleship out of sight.
Hi Nic.
There's a lot of foreshortening in the shot (yes, I think that is the back of Battleship Block on the right side of the photo). The bit behind that might be the Back Cliff, with the rest of Battleship out of sight.
In reply to Nic:
Looks like a nice new arete climb to be done at some point (just to the right of the second ivy patch on BFS)
Well i should do it quick if i were you. Portland seems very impermanent at Present
Looks like a nice new arete climb to be done at some point (just to the right of the second ivy patch on BFS)
Well i should do it quick if i were you. Portland seems very impermanent at Present
In reply to steve taylor:
Might try to get out for a walk this weekend, depending on weather, but I am guessing even the cliff top path will not be very buggy friendly?
Might try to get out for a walk this weekend, depending on weather, but I am guessing even the cliff top path will not be very buggy friendly?
In reply to Nic:
Buggy friendly! Haha - about time you settled down Nic
I'm not even sure the path is still there! Take photos though...
Buggy friendly! Haha - about time you settled down Nic
I'm not even sure the path is still there! Take photos though...
In reply to steve taylor:
Yes, twins as well (one of each)...so instant family!
Only a slim chance we will get there, but quite fancy lunch at either the Bluefish or the Crab Shack (if either still there after the storms!)...if so will do my best to get some pics
Yes, twins as well (one of each)...so instant family!
Only a slim chance we will get there, but quite fancy lunch at either the Bluefish or the Crab Shack (if either still there after the storms!)...if so will do my best to get some pics
In reply to Ben Thorne:
Hi Ben
Let us know how you get on. Neal or I may be out on Sunday, that is if it is not too wet!!
If not we are planning to be out with the Portland Ranger and BMC officer early next week - could be interesting?
Helen
Hi Ben
Let us know how you get on. Neal or I may be out on Sunday, that is if it is not too wet!!
If not we are planning to be out with the Portland Ranger and BMC officer early next week - could be interesting?
Helen
In reply to steve taylor:
Neal / H / Steve - can you email me at ben@benthorne.co.uk - have some info you may need to pass on to BMC or Portland Ranger. Suggest area is dangerous and needs warnings broadcasted.
Will post summary and photos shortly.
Neal / H / Steve - can you email me at ben@benthorne.co.uk - have some info you may need to pass on to BMC or Portland Ranger. Suggest area is dangerous and needs warnings broadcasted.
Will post summary and photos shortly.
In reply to steve taylor:
Took a walk from Wallsend to BNFS today. I'll post the photo links in when they've been 'approved'.
Not much sign of any problems at Coastguard North or in Wallsend. Only dropped down into Wallsend Far North but apart from the usual small mud slides. Coastguard descent looks okay from a distance but will need someone to check it out.
Then dropped into the Battleship southern descent above the Veranda (which is fine) and to the block slab. Back Cliff is fine - some mud over 'Error 404' and some large cracks in the ground but all routes intact.
Large cracks under No Man Is An Island sector and signs of land underneath (boulders and brambles) showing signs of slippage - reckon from sea level it looks worse.
Path up under Middle Cliff has slipped again and is covered in very runny clay - very hard to pass at the moment, I had to swim in it to get to Chappaquiddic. At the moment the only way up is to pull on vines and slide up the clay.
Routes along the 'Edge' are fine until you get to the Evening Falls area. I suspect the land under the routes is dodgy though. Be careful around here.
Everything after Keyboard Wall has 'gone' - the Never Drive A Car area is under some mud and hangs around 10m above a large drop and landslide of wet clay. At the moment you can't get down here - it's a big drop and suggest until it dries it's very dangerous to go near it.
Can possibly approach by going around the back of the block slab and down to the bottom of the landslide near the sea.
The whole area from Keyboard Wall to the north, all the way to around Think Black at BNFS has disappeared under mud and is completely impassable at the moment, from either end.
There was a boulderfield between the two crags - this now forms the peak of a massive land creep near the sea. The only way I can describe it is 'terminal moraine' like on a glacier - it's that awesome in scale.
All of the land between the two crags has slipped about 100ft down and shunted the boulders beneath into a ridge near the sea. The only thing under the two crags now is mud, wet, runny mud.
Therefore, THE STANDARD APPROACH TO BOTH BLACKNOR FAR SOUTH AND BATTLESHIP EDGE IS NOW COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE AND UNSAFE - STAY CLEAR.
As for routes, the capstone on routes between Think Black and the southern end of BNFS has slipped, it must be down under the mud somewhere.
Will post photos and links to video when I can. In summary, suggest all routes south of Think Black are gone for good, with the Battleship routes possible climbable in a few seasons with a few extra bolts.
However, think it's important to note the seriousness of approaching the area at the moment - may be fine to wander round in the summer but it's hideous down there at the moment.
Ben
Took a walk from Wallsend to BNFS today. I'll post the photo links in when they've been 'approved'.
Not much sign of any problems at Coastguard North or in Wallsend. Only dropped down into Wallsend Far North but apart from the usual small mud slides. Coastguard descent looks okay from a distance but will need someone to check it out.
Then dropped into the Battleship southern descent above the Veranda (which is fine) and to the block slab. Back Cliff is fine - some mud over 'Error 404' and some large cracks in the ground but all routes intact.
Large cracks under No Man Is An Island sector and signs of land underneath (boulders and brambles) showing signs of slippage - reckon from sea level it looks worse.
Path up under Middle Cliff has slipped again and is covered in very runny clay - very hard to pass at the moment, I had to swim in it to get to Chappaquiddic. At the moment the only way up is to pull on vines and slide up the clay.
Routes along the 'Edge' are fine until you get to the Evening Falls area. I suspect the land under the routes is dodgy though. Be careful around here.
Everything after Keyboard Wall has 'gone' - the Never Drive A Car area is under some mud and hangs around 10m above a large drop and landslide of wet clay. At the moment you can't get down here - it's a big drop and suggest until it dries it's very dangerous to go near it.
Can possibly approach by going around the back of the block slab and down to the bottom of the landslide near the sea.
The whole area from Keyboard Wall to the north, all the way to around Think Black at BNFS has disappeared under mud and is completely impassable at the moment, from either end.
There was a boulderfield between the two crags - this now forms the peak of a massive land creep near the sea. The only way I can describe it is 'terminal moraine' like on a glacier - it's that awesome in scale.
All of the land between the two crags has slipped about 100ft down and shunted the boulders beneath into a ridge near the sea. The only thing under the two crags now is mud, wet, runny mud.
Therefore, THE STANDARD APPROACH TO BOTH BLACKNOR FAR SOUTH AND BATTLESHIP EDGE IS NOW COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE AND UNSAFE - STAY CLEAR.
As for routes, the capstone on routes between Think Black and the southern end of BNFS has slipped, it must be down under the mud somewhere.
Will post photos and links to video when I can. In summary, suggest all routes south of Think Black are gone for good, with the Battleship routes possible climbable in a few seasons with a few extra bolts.
However, think it's important to note the seriousness of approaching the area at the moment - may be fine to wander round in the summer but it's hideous down there at the moment.
Ben
In reply to Ben Thorne:
Thanks for checking this out Ben - sounds like a bit of a grim walk.
In summary, it's worse than originally thought! Plus if there's movement under No Man is an Island, perhaps Battleship Block is at risk? Did it look any different to you - more slabby?
Is the coast path passable above the landslip - I'd have though the council would be out putting up DANGER signs...
Thanks for checking this out Ben - sounds like a bit of a grim walk.
In summary, it's worse than originally thought! Plus if there's movement under No Man is an Island, perhaps Battleship Block is at risk? Did it look any different to you - more slabby?
Is the coast path passable above the landslip - I'd have though the council would be out putting up DANGER signs...
In reply to Ben Thorne:
Thats a massive shame sounds like a lot of routes have gone (130+ I think)
Well done on getting down there to have a look.
Thats a massive shame sounds like a lot of routes have gone (130+ I think)
Well done on getting down there to have a look.
Post edited at 15:53
In reply to Ben Thorne:
Thanks for the report Ben. I am going to put something together for the news on R.Fax and UKC.
Hopefully it will stablise when the weather clears up.
Thanks again
Mark
Thanks for the report Ben. I am going to put something together for the news on R.Fax and UKC.
Hopefully it will stablise when the weather clears up.
Thanks again
Mark
In reply to Ben Thorne:
Sounds horrendous, nice one on having a look, pretty interested to see some photos as and when- must have been pretty impressive when it went!
Movement under No Man is pretty worrying, the moment if/when the Block goes would be biblical.
Sounds horrendous, nice one on having a look, pretty interested to see some photos as and when- must have been pretty impressive when it went!
Movement under No Man is pretty worrying, the moment if/when the Block goes would be biblical.
In reply to steve taylor:
No problem for taking a look - will be able to get a better perspective from a ramble under BSouth or from the block slab. I won't be able to get there for about 10 days though.
Photos (I have more but the upload process bores me!);
1: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235093
2: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235099
3: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235101
1:
Still vastly fore-shortened, but closer than previously published images. Taken from behind the slab.
The mound with the cracks on it on the left is actually the land that was up under BNFS. The boulders on it are from the small boulderfield just south of BNFS. They've plunged about 150ft from where they were.
All land between Keyboard Wall at BS and the left-hand end of BNFS is now a 70 degree mud slope, running down to a mud plain possibly metres deep.
Looking at the photos, BNFS may be completely dodgy, even the left-hand end. Looks a bit dodgy south of the Medussa Falls area too.
2:
Landslide under Battleship Edge. Looks far friendlier than it is. It's actually a messy nightmare, all the mud is like liquid and under the hedges the land's definitely slipped away further. This promontory is effectively 'stuck' to the crag and may not be supported from below.
Path will be fine in the dry though.
3:
The path underneath Evening Falls is now a crazy ledge 80ft above the remnants of the 'mound' and path. Take care, still loose and very wet. Everything from the south up to Keyboard Wall is still climbable though.
In answer to questions - cliff-top path seems fine. I parked by my old house in Southwell and had to run to get out of a cloud-burst so didn't inspect it but there are dog-walkers going up and down so assume it's fine.
Lots of damage to the lower boulder tier underneath the Edge - there was a small 'shelf' of rock that looked enticing from above (but wasn't), it looks like it's been hammered as there are some massive freshly cut boulders around it.
I estimate 23 routes on BNFS totally gone and 15 on Battleship ruined for a good few years. Probably a lot of the bouldering at sea level gone too.
Ground underneath the Edge is still slipping but I'm sure will stabilise and be fine eventually, just not the picnic spot suggested in the '94 guide! More akin to Wallsend North now - dodgy belays and mud scrambling.
The slab hasn't moved - two climbers were on it today (their first ever trip 'outside'), but the cracks that opened up under the main Pump Hitler wall are big now and there are signs of damage further toward the sea too. Most of that ground around there is made of rock and scree piled up and held together with mud and foliage, the slab itself is sat on a promontory - went round the back to get photos and it looks okay, trickier to get down to the sea behind now though.
No problem for taking a look - will be able to get a better perspective from a ramble under BSouth or from the block slab. I won't be able to get there for about 10 days though.
Photos (I have more but the upload process bores me!);
1: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235093
2: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235099
3: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235101
1:
Still vastly fore-shortened, but closer than previously published images. Taken from behind the slab.
The mound with the cracks on it on the left is actually the land that was up under BNFS. The boulders on it are from the small boulderfield just south of BNFS. They've plunged about 150ft from where they were.
All land between Keyboard Wall at BS and the left-hand end of BNFS is now a 70 degree mud slope, running down to a mud plain possibly metres deep.
Looking at the photos, BNFS may be completely dodgy, even the left-hand end. Looks a bit dodgy south of the Medussa Falls area too.
2:
Landslide under Battleship Edge. Looks far friendlier than it is. It's actually a messy nightmare, all the mud is like liquid and under the hedges the land's definitely slipped away further. This promontory is effectively 'stuck' to the crag and may not be supported from below.
Path will be fine in the dry though.
3:
The path underneath Evening Falls is now a crazy ledge 80ft above the remnants of the 'mound' and path. Take care, still loose and very wet. Everything from the south up to Keyboard Wall is still climbable though.
In answer to questions - cliff-top path seems fine. I parked by my old house in Southwell and had to run to get out of a cloud-burst so didn't inspect it but there are dog-walkers going up and down so assume it's fine.
Lots of damage to the lower boulder tier underneath the Edge - there was a small 'shelf' of rock that looked enticing from above (but wasn't), it looks like it's been hammered as there are some massive freshly cut boulders around it.
I estimate 23 routes on BNFS totally gone and 15 on Battleship ruined for a good few years. Probably a lot of the bouldering at sea level gone too.
Ground underneath the Edge is still slipping but I'm sure will stabilise and be fine eventually, just not the picnic spot suggested in the '94 guide! More akin to Wallsend North now - dodgy belays and mud scrambling.
The slab hasn't moved - two climbers were on it today (their first ever trip 'outside'), but the cracks that opened up under the main Pump Hitler wall are big now and there are signs of damage further toward the sea too. Most of that ground around there is made of rock and scree piled up and held together with mud and foliage, the slab itself is sat on a promontory - went round the back to get photos and it looks okay, trickier to get down to the sea behind now though.
In reply to Ben Thorne: Thanks again Ben for the report and the assessment of what has been altered/lost/dangerous etc. If you want to email me your pics I can put them in the news item.
Hi,
I was planning a trip to Portland next weekend. We were primarily thinking of climbing in the cuttings, but I don't have much experience in this area.
Do people who know the area think this will still be safe to climb, or is everything round there at the moment unstable?
Thanks
I was planning a trip to Portland next weekend. We were primarily thinking of climbing in the cuttings, but I don't have much experience in this area.
Do people who know the area think this will still be safe to climb, or is everything round there at the moment unstable?
Thanks
In reply to Ben Thorne:
Wow, the picture taken towards Blacknor showing the resulting heap really shows the scale of the slide. Have to say I thought that Blacknor was going to take a big slide before the area that has, which I thought looked more stable as was more of a gradual slope.
Wow, the picture taken towards Blacknor showing the resulting heap really shows the scale of the slide. Have to say I thought that Blacknor was going to take a big slide before the area that has, which I thought looked more stable as was more of a gradual slope.
In reply to laurence_falconer:
Cuttings will be absolutely fine. Protected from storms, 100ft above the sea and relatively 'inland'.
Would be wary of all west coast venues at the moment.
Cuttings will be absolutely fine. Protected from storms, 100ft above the sea and relatively 'inland'.
Would be wary of all west coast venues at the moment.
In reply to Mark Glaister - Assistant Editor:
Hi Mark, talk to N or H they have some useful info and more photos, somebody had his axes out !
Hi Mark, talk to N or H they have some useful info and more photos, somebody had his axes out !
In reply to alan ashmore:
I don't know when they did the filming but this evening's Countryfile on BBC1 @ 1900 is from Portland.
I don't know when they did the filming but this evening's Countryfile on BBC1 @ 1900 is from Portland.
In reply to a lakeland climber:
They were filming three weeks ago for some of it. But some was done earlier.
They were filming three weeks ago for some of it. But some was done earlier.
In reply to steve taylor:
Having fortified myself with the fish of the day at the Bluefish, and been the 100th person that day to say "ooh, I saw you on the telly!", I went for a bracing stroll from the Reap Lane access point to Battleship Edge (BE) northwards along to Sharbutts Quarry and thence down to Blacknor Central.
The entire crag was deserted, no one on Central or South, which was a shame as it was beautifully sunny day and the wind not too bad down on the crag (though decidedly offputting on the coast path!). Anyway, not much to add to what Ben Thorne has put up...as he noted, on Blacknor Far South a large number of routes from Think Black southwards have totally lost their top third due to rockfall. Couldn't quite make out where the rockfall ends, but somewhere near Punter's Way at a guess? It's a moot point, as the routes right of this have lost the ground from under their feet, and are probably a good 3-5m of muddy, unprotected rock longer now! May clean up in 10 or so years, in which case someone else can bolt them!
Northwards from there, the rest of BFS looks unaffected (stress "looks from a distance", no guarantees, but not sure about access..as going down the fishermen's rope from Sharbutt's to the Lizard of Oz area, it looks like there has been some damage (more erosion that landslip?) to the path going south to BFS. It was too muddy to check out, so your mileage may vary. No obvious damage (again other than erosion) to the area under Sacred Angel (i.e. the bit that slipped 10 or so years back); however, there are some big cracks appearing on the first bit of the route around (see pic...I think, it's a few years since I've been down there so these might be old?)
For the geologists/geomorphologists out there, this is a classic example of a rotational landslip (again see pics I will upload shortly, taken into the sun so sorry about lack of definition)...possibly triggered by the event of the top third of BFS sliding off and dumping on top of the blunt ridge which used to separate BFS and BE (a useful "before" picture is this one:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=205611
Access to BE *might* be possible via the usual way down from the north when it's all dried out, with care, but only time will tell.
Having fortified myself with the fish of the day at the Bluefish, and been the 100th person that day to say "ooh, I saw you on the telly!", I went for a bracing stroll from the Reap Lane access point to Battleship Edge (BE) northwards along to Sharbutts Quarry and thence down to Blacknor Central.
The entire crag was deserted, no one on Central or South, which was a shame as it was beautifully sunny day and the wind not too bad down on the crag (though decidedly offputting on the coast path!). Anyway, not much to add to what Ben Thorne has put up...as he noted, on Blacknor Far South a large number of routes from Think Black southwards have totally lost their top third due to rockfall. Couldn't quite make out where the rockfall ends, but somewhere near Punter's Way at a guess? It's a moot point, as the routes right of this have lost the ground from under their feet, and are probably a good 3-5m of muddy, unprotected rock longer now! May clean up in 10 or so years, in which case someone else can bolt them!
Northwards from there, the rest of BFS looks unaffected (stress "looks from a distance", no guarantees, but not sure about access..as going down the fishermen's rope from Sharbutt's to the Lizard of Oz area, it looks like there has been some damage (more erosion that landslip?) to the path going south to BFS. It was too muddy to check out, so your mileage may vary. No obvious damage (again other than erosion) to the area under Sacred Angel (i.e. the bit that slipped 10 or so years back); however, there are some big cracks appearing on the first bit of the route around (see pic...I think, it's a few years since I've been down there so these might be old?)
For the geologists/geomorphologists out there, this is a classic example of a rotational landslip (again see pics I will upload shortly, taken into the sun so sorry about lack of definition)...possibly triggered by the event of the top third of BFS sliding off and dumping on top of the blunt ridge which used to separate BFS and BE (a useful "before" picture is this one:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=205611
Access to BE *might* be possible via the usual way down from the north when it's all dried out, with care, but only time will tell.
In reply to Mark Glaister - Assistant Editor:
Apologies for not reporting back sooner, been away working since I first heard of the slip. Went to Far south from the North on Sunday and can report the following: Below turned to stone the ground has moved quite a bit and the path south to far south is in pieces, (knotted fixed rope is in place here to aid moving over the loose material I expect will stabalise when it dries out).The normal path to far south ends in a large mudslide from below the shade tree, would not advise trying this. I got up to the crag up the steep grass and bramble bank below Singing bush, but event the top of this is a mudslide, (sorry no rope in place here yes as no suitable anchor available). The base of the crag has sunk quite abit and most routes around Fears younger brother along to reality bites will need an extra bolt or two once the settle down. The tree area has sunk a further 5 feet and looks unsupported from below so wouldn't advise using this as a base. The middle section of the crag is not too bad with only minor slumping at present. The right hand end of the crag is in tact however the dirt/grass bank which used to be the approach has completely gone right of master of the rolls. All routes south of here to blood and chocolate are intact but now have a 30ft dirtly loose section at their base above steep mudslides. Contrary to other reports I can confirm that none of the routes have lost the top sections although it may appear so from afar.
I have a meeting with Rob from the BMC tomorrow to discuss access so no doubt this little slip will come up. My conclusion is that once the crag and the ground below has dried out we should be able to establish a new access from the north probably involving clearing some vegetation and putting in access ropes.
Mark I will email you some shots for your report
cheers Neal
Apologies for not reporting back sooner, been away working since I first heard of the slip. Went to Far south from the North on Sunday and can report the following: Below turned to stone the ground has moved quite a bit and the path south to far south is in pieces, (knotted fixed rope is in place here to aid moving over the loose material I expect will stabalise when it dries out).The normal path to far south ends in a large mudslide from below the shade tree, would not advise trying this. I got up to the crag up the steep grass and bramble bank below Singing bush, but event the top of this is a mudslide, (sorry no rope in place here yes as no suitable anchor available). The base of the crag has sunk quite abit and most routes around Fears younger brother along to reality bites will need an extra bolt or two once the settle down. The tree area has sunk a further 5 feet and looks unsupported from below so wouldn't advise using this as a base. The middle section of the crag is not too bad with only minor slumping at present. The right hand end of the crag is in tact however the dirt/grass bank which used to be the approach has completely gone right of master of the rolls. All routes south of here to blood and chocolate are intact but now have a 30ft dirtly loose section at their base above steep mudslides. Contrary to other reports I can confirm that none of the routes have lost the top sections although it may appear so from afar.
I have a meeting with Rob from the BMC tomorrow to discuss access so no doubt this little slip will come up. My conclusion is that once the crag and the ground below has dried out we should be able to establish a new access from the north probably involving clearing some vegetation and putting in access ropes.
Mark I will email you some shots for your report
cheers Neal
In reply to nealh:
Hi Neal
You obviously got a lot closer than me, but I can't reconcile your comment that "none of the routes have lost the top sections" to the photo here
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153851647785249&set=a.10153851647...
(and my own eyes!!)
BTW let me know when it's stabilised etc., I might be able to lend a hand with some access ropes/rebolting
Nic
Hi Neal
You obviously got a lot closer than me, but I can't reconcile your comment that "none of the routes have lost the top sections" to the photo here
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153851647785249&set=a.10153851647...
(and my own eyes!!)
BTW let me know when it's stabilised etc., I might be able to lend a hand with some access ropes/rebolting
Nic
Post edited at 12:28
In reply to nealh:
Sorry, looking at this again...the photos may well be an optical illusion. I was counting along ivy patches, and in the Facebook photo it looks like the rockfall starts just after the second ivy patch (i.e. Think Black or thereabouts)...but it could be that the crag from here rightwards is exactly at right angles to the camera and has disappeared. What looks like a new arete is actually the old way down to BFS from the south (i.e. around Blood and Chocolate/Easy Lay etc.)??...and what I thought was the bottom of the affected routes is actually a new crag where the old ridge between BFS and BE was??
As I say, you got a lot closer, so I'll take your word for it!
Sorry, looking at this again...the photos may well be an optical illusion. I was counting along ivy patches, and in the Facebook photo it looks like the rockfall starts just after the second ivy patch (i.e. Think Black or thereabouts)...but it could be that the crag from here rightwards is exactly at right angles to the camera and has disappeared. What looks like a new arete is actually the old way down to BFS from the south (i.e. around Blood and Chocolate/Easy Lay etc.)??...and what I thought was the bottom of the affected routes is actually a new crag where the old ridge between BFS and BE was??
As I say, you got a lot closer, so I'll take your word for it!
In reply to nealh:
Thanks for the new rope and report Neal.
Looks like the foreshortening from Battleship in my photos was more extreme than first thought.
Nic - definitely a new small crag, watch out for local activists!
Sounds like the gaps and movement at Turned to Stone is the same as at Battleship - a few metres here and there but once settled and dry should be fine with traffic.
Will pop back down on Sunday and get a pano from the sea, weather-permitting.
Thanks for the new rope and report Neal.
Looks like the foreshortening from Battleship in my photos was more extreme than first thought.
Nic - definitely a new small crag, watch out for local activists!
Sounds like the gaps and movement at Turned to Stone is the same as at Battleship - a few metres here and there but once settled and dry should be fine with traffic.
Will pop back down on Sunday and get a pano from the sea, weather-permitting.
In reply to Nic:
Even though I haven't climbed routes for years I was really interested in this news since BFS was my favourite crag. I also used the old access route into Battleship when bouldering on Battleship Beach. When I saw the original photos I thought the arête in profile immediately left of the land slip looked like where Blood and Chocolate used to be (all be it with 10m of new cliff below). The overhang at the top of the cliff just to the right (in the sun) looks like the rock you used to pass on the walk in to BFS - I probably paid more attention than most since I often thought about bouldering over it (trust me). Anyway that was all supposition on my behalf - Neal has seen first hand, and if anyone knows the (ex)lay of the land, it's him. It's good news no routes were lost - and once clean they will be 10m longer (bonus!). Even better news was no one was present during the land slide though it's a sobering reminder of the dangers.
Even though I haven't climbed routes for years I was really interested in this news since BFS was my favourite crag. I also used the old access route into Battleship when bouldering on Battleship Beach. When I saw the original photos I thought the arête in profile immediately left of the land slip looked like where Blood and Chocolate used to be (all be it with 10m of new cliff below). The overhang at the top of the cliff just to the right (in the sun) looks like the rock you used to pass on the walk in to BFS - I probably paid more attention than most since I often thought about bouldering over it (trust me). Anyway that was all supposition on my behalf - Neal has seen first hand, and if anyone knows the (ex)lay of the land, it's him. It's good news no routes were lost - and once clean they will be 10m longer (bonus!). Even better news was no one was present during the land slide though it's a sobering reminder of the dangers.
In reply to Ben Thorne:
>watch out for local activists!
Too late! Apparently Gary Gibson has put up 15 new routes there...
Anyway, looking more closely Ben Stokes and Neal are right (of course)...if you look at the mast just in shot (at the top of the Facebook pic), at about 4o'clock from it is the recognisable hollow a third of the way down the (ex) easy way in, you can just see the small boulder there. I got as far as this on Saturday but didn't want to get too close to the edge as it was wet and muddy and clearly right by a long drop.
And they say the camera never lies!
>watch out for local activists!
Too late! Apparently Gary Gibson has put up 15 new routes there...
Anyway, looking more closely Ben Stokes and Neal are right (of course)...if you look at the mast just in shot (at the top of the Facebook pic), at about 4o'clock from it is the recognisable hollow a third of the way down the (ex) easy way in, you can just see the small boulder there. I got as far as this on Saturday but didn't want to get too close to the edge as it was wet and muddy and clearly right by a long drop.
And they say the camera never lies!
In reply to steve taylor:
would be great to see a photo of the crag from this angle. Looking southwards from atop blacknor. The comments make sense after looking at the photos in more detail.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6592969855_f301ecf151_o.jpg
would be great to see a photo of the crag from this angle. Looking southwards from atop blacknor. The comments make sense after looking at the photos in more detail.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6592969855_f301ecf151_o.jpg
In reply to sam.sam.sam.ferguson:
To my untrained eye it looks like the old descents into BFS and Battleship made their way down the grassed-over remnants of an old landslip.
> would be great to see a photo of the crag from this angle. Looking southwards from atop blacknor. The comments make sense after looking at the photos in more detail.
To my untrained eye it looks like the old descents into BFS and Battleship made their way down the grassed-over remnants of an old landslip.
In reply to Ben Thorne:
That's a great picture! The lighting and shadows really bring out the structure.
With a slightly more trained eye (B.Sc. Geography/Geology, and my tutor was Denys Brunsden, who wrote several guides to the landforms of the Dorset coast) I would say the old way down was mostly a talus fan of quarry debris, probably from Suckthumb Quarry which is just the other side of Reap Lane. This has been dumped on a series of old landslips which have their bases in the Kimmeridge Clay, which in this area is at or around sea level. It's basically a giant version of the fairground push penny game, and the pennies have just toppled!
Interestingly from the angle of that photo, it looks like it won't be long (at least in geological terms...) before Battleship Back Cliff goes, though this will be a topple, a la Battleship Block, rather than a rotation like the recent one. So, if you've got any redpoint projects here, better get on with them...
That's a great picture! The lighting and shadows really bring out the structure.
With a slightly more trained eye (B.Sc. Geography/Geology, and my tutor was Denys Brunsden, who wrote several guides to the landforms of the Dorset coast) I would say the old way down was mostly a talus fan of quarry debris, probably from Suckthumb Quarry which is just the other side of Reap Lane. This has been dumped on a series of old landslips which have their bases in the Kimmeridge Clay, which in this area is at or around sea level. It's basically a giant version of the fairground push penny game, and the pennies have just toppled!
Interestingly from the angle of that photo, it looks like it won't be long (at least in geological terms...) before Battleship Back Cliff goes, though this will be a topple, a la Battleship Block, rather than a rotation like the recent one. So, if you've got any redpoint projects here, better get on with them...
In reply to Nic:
Thanks Nic - that sounds far more likely. Still strong with your analogies too I see - sponge cake and ice cream.....
> With a slightly more trained eye (B.Sc. Geography/Geology, and my tutor was Denys Brunsden, who wrote several guides to the landforms of the Dorset coast) I would say the old way down was mostly a talus fan of quarry debris, probably from Suckthumb Quarry which is just the other side of Reap Lane. This has been dumped on a series of old landslips which have their bases in the Kimmeridge Clay, which in this area is at or around sea level. It's basically a giant version of the fairground push penny game, and the pennies have just toppled!
Thanks Nic - that sounds far more likely. Still strong with your analogies too I see - sponge cake and ice cream.....
In reply to Ben Stokes:
Ha! I seem to remember that always tickled you! Delighted that you still remember it.
In any case I was thinking of revisiting the pudding analogy - a rotational landslip is a bit like scooping off a bit of ice cream with a spoon...
> sponge cake and ice cream.....
Ha! I seem to remember that always tickled you! Delighted that you still remember it.
In any case I was thinking of revisiting the pudding analogy - a rotational landslip is a bit like scooping off a bit of ice cream with a spoon...
In reply to Nic:
Did I hear someone say "new crag"......
I've mentioned to the wife that there's some cleaning to be done.
Thanks to Neal and others for taking the time and effort to get down there and having a look.
I'm kicking myself for not getting 'Good Lay' done last year now.
Did I hear someone say "new crag"......
I've mentioned to the wife that there's some cleaning to be done.
Thanks to Neal and others for taking the time and effort to get down there and having a look.
I'm kicking myself for not getting 'Good Lay' done last year now.
In reply to Mick Ward:
Having had a good look down blacknor Sunday and a cursory look down Cheyne today I would say the primary challenge facing Portland activists is securing the approach to the established climbs.
A lot of ground below routes has been lost and whilst some may cry harrah longer climbs, the issue is safe belaying and access to routes. I propose we need to look at crags on a case by case basis to establish safe interim access and hopefully better longer term access if this can be achieved
If in time we can get more established pathes then great but even these will have a semi permanent feel
Having had a good look down blacknor Sunday and a cursory look down Cheyne today I would say the primary challenge facing Portland activists is securing the approach to the established climbs.
A lot of ground below routes has been lost and whilst some may cry harrah longer climbs, the issue is safe belaying and access to routes. I propose we need to look at crags on a case by case basis to establish safe interim access and hopefully better longer term access if this can be achieved
If in time we can get more established pathes then great but even these will have a semi permanent feel
In reply to nealh:
Gosh, Neal, was only taking the piss! Have I missed something? Are you standing for public office this year?
Well...
Dignified demeanour at all times? Tick!
Clear and obvious leadership qualities? Tick!
Mentoring local politicians on climbing matters? (That's a good one...) Tick!
Right - that's three ticks. I'm on-side.
Mick
Gosh, Neal, was only taking the piss! Have I missed something? Are you standing for public office this year?
Well...
Dignified demeanour at all times? Tick!
Clear and obvious leadership qualities? Tick!
Mentoring local politicians on climbing matters? (That's a good one...) Tick!
Right - that's three ticks. I'm on-side.
Mick
In reply to steve taylor:
sorry chaps had my work head on but as you will no doubt see
the approach to lot of routes is a bit of a mess right now
sorry chaps had my work head on but as you will no doubt see
the approach to lot of routes is a bit of a mess right now
Anything affected by the weather at Swanage?
In reply to Mick Ward:
So I could proudly have said "I had a Good Lay".
It's still on for this year but it will just be longer and have a dirty bottom. The start is a bit fingery, might pull on a couple of jugs and if I come off at the end it will be because of sloppy footwork.
Hee Hee....
So I could proudly have said "I had a Good Lay".
It's still on for this year but it will just be longer and have a dirty bottom. The start is a bit fingery, might pull on a couple of jugs and if I come off at the end it will be because of sloppy footwork.
Hee Hee....
In reply to nealh:
Happy Birthday Neal BTW
If you could make sure the approach to BFS is sorted by this April, that would be great Oh - and make it stop raining too. Manage that, and you've got my vote for Mayor!
Happy Birthday Neal BTW
If you could make sure the approach to BFS is sorted by this April, that would be great Oh - and make it stop raining too. Manage that, and you've got my vote for Mayor!
In reply to steve taylor:
Hi guys,
Just to check, is Monoculture still around or was that taken out? Presumably it's routes the other side of keyboard wall that have gone?
Thanks
Hi guys,
Just to check, is Monoculture still around or was that taken out? Presumably it's routes the other side of keyboard wall that have gone?
Thanks
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:
Monoculture's still there, water pouring off it when I was there. 'Ground' underneath seems okay but there are cracks.
Approach is tricky though at the moment, should be fine when dry again.
Will get more photos on Sunday, but it's due to rain on Saturday so things may still be messy.
Monoculture's still there, water pouring off it when I was there. 'Ground' underneath seems okay but there are cracks.
Approach is tricky though at the moment, should be fine when dry again.
Will get more photos on Sunday, but it's due to rain on Saturday so things may still be messy.
In reply to The_flying_climber:
Did you already read the first pitch of tatra went about a month or so ago?
Did you already read the first pitch of tatra went about a month or so ago?
In reply to sam.sam.sam.ferguson:
I was on Portland today and took this shot from the north.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235453
Apologies for the indifferent light but I could not be bothered to wait a couple of hours for the sun to move to the best position.
The angle is not quite the same as in your shot but close enough to compare 'before' and 'after', especially if you zoom in on your photo. I have marked a couple of routes on my photo - I think they are roughly right but I didn't go any closer so I can't be sure.
Amazing that a grassy ridge that must have been at least 100 metres wide has just vanished! But it doesn't look as if any climbs have fallen down - it is just the approach and the ground underneath that has changed.
> would be great to see a photo of the crag from this angle. Looking southwards from atop blacknor. The comments make sense after looking at the photos in more detail.
I was on Portland today and took this shot from the north.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235453
Apologies for the indifferent light but I could not be bothered to wait a couple of hours for the sun to move to the best position.
The angle is not quite the same as in your shot but close enough to compare 'before' and 'after', especially if you zoom in on your photo. I have marked a couple of routes on my photo - I think they are roughly right but I didn't go any closer so I can't be sure.
Amazing that a grassy ridge that must have been at least 100 metres wide has just vanished! But it doesn't look as if any climbs have fallen down - it is just the approach and the ground underneath that has changed.
In reply to Bob M:
Great photo. You can really see how the area has changed. As you said its crazy how such a l
big area has gone. Would have been impressive to see!
Great photo. You can really see how the area has changed. As you said its crazy how such a l
big area has gone. Would have been impressive to see!
In reply to Bob M:
Sam and Bob, I have taken the liberty of combining your photos so people can compare the damage side by side. (If this is not ok just let me know).
Although the perspective is not quite the same, you can see how huge this slip was.
Link here https://www.dropbox.com/s/lunk0xki6or1lj6/Battleship%20Edge%20Landslip.jpg
Sam and Bob, I have taken the liberty of combining your photos so people can compare the damage side by side. (If this is not ok just let me know).
Although the perspective is not quite the same, you can see how huge this slip was.
Link here https://www.dropbox.com/s/lunk0xki6or1lj6/Battleship%20Edge%20Landslip.jpg
In reply to Dan Arkle:
Wow, that really helps to see what has happened, that's incredible!
Ultimately it seems that the greatest loss is the access point, eventually it could mean there will be more routes (and some extended starts) in that area overall once it's clean and safe.
Wow, that really helps to see what has happened, that's incredible!
Ultimately it seems that the greatest loss is the access point, eventually it could mean there will be more routes (and some extended starts) in that area overall once it's clean and safe.
In reply to all:
thanks for the photos and details. looks like my mourning period for master of the rolls can end
thanks for the photos and details. looks like my mourning period for master of the rolls can end
In reply to Ben Thorne:
Thanks Ben. Good to know- slowly getting back in to climbing with the aim of finally doing a couple of my nemeses. Monoculture and Mind Terrorist are firmly up there.
Thanks Ben. Good to know- slowly getting back in to climbing with the aim of finally doing a couple of my nemeses. Monoculture and Mind Terrorist are firmly up there.
In reply to nealh:
With regards to Battleship Block and Edge, would it be feasible to set up a fixed rope in the gully by 'Coastguard Ron'.
Also, a rope between 'Information Superhighway' and 'The Attic' area (south of the Battleship Block)? I think there used to be a bolt at the top there.
We can also replace the rope on the south 'Veranda' approach as that will start to get used more as well now.
Perhaps there might be stable rock either side of the old grass slope approach path to BFS where we could set up some kind of abseil anchors (???).
With regards to Battleship Block and Edge, would it be feasible to set up a fixed rope in the gully by 'Coastguard Ron'.
Also, a rope between 'Information Superhighway' and 'The Attic' area (south of the Battleship Block)? I think there used to be a bolt at the top there.
We can also replace the rope on the south 'Veranda' approach as that will start to get used more as well now.
Perhaps there might be stable rock either side of the old grass slope approach path to BFS where we could set up some kind of abseil anchors (???).
I've been following this thread with interest but couldn't really get my head around what had slipped. Your before & after photo Dan works brilliantly and I now can't get my head around the raw power of nature that can cause such a huge change and so quickly. I'll be interested to know if there have been any other losses especially on the big cliffs at Wallsend and Coastguard.
When the weather and conditions improve it would be really useful to get a comprehensive Portland update from the current guidebook publishers, Rockfax and/or CC
When the weather and conditions improve it would be really useful to get a comprehensive Portland update from the current guidebook publishers, Rockfax and/or CC
In reply to Bob M:
Great photo Bob, thanks...if you look carefully you can see the "tideline" where the old slope down to the south end of BFS was!
Re the new access, I suspect we're all going to have to wait for stuff to dry out, I for one don't fancy abbing into a pool of mud.
Great photo Bob, thanks...if you look carefully you can see the "tideline" where the old slope down to the south end of BFS was!
Re the new access, I suspect we're all going to have to wait for stuff to dry out, I for one don't fancy abbing into a pool of mud.
In reply to xyz:
Hi Lee,
Apparently, there aren't any major changes to Wallsend or Coastguard. The path down to Coastguard north has moved a bit, but not too much. Andy Long had a good walk around the whole of Wallsend and Coastguard last weekend.
Cheers,
Rich.
Hi Lee,
Apparently, there aren't any major changes to Wallsend or Coastguard. The path down to Coastguard north has moved a bit, but not too much. Andy Long had a good walk around the whole of Wallsend and Coastguard last weekend.
Cheers,
Rich.
In reply to Team BMC:
Ooh, didn't know Neddyfields had gone too...I dropped my belay device between some boulders there about 10 years back, any chance someone could pop down and see whether it's been unearthed??
Ooh, didn't know Neddyfields had gone too...I dropped my belay device between some boulders there about 10 years back, any chance someone could pop down and see whether it's been unearthed??
In reply to Team BMC:
...also reading through I note "Battleship Block is also seemingly tilting more that it was previously"
That's what I thought when I saw one of the photos, but someone else said it was unaffected? What's the evidence for this?
...also reading through I note "Battleship Block is also seemingly tilting more that it was previously"
That's what I thought when I saw one of the photos, but someone else said it was unaffected? What's the evidence for this?
In reply to Nic:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235469
Hopefully the picture above of the ground below fears younger brother will give an idea just how unstable the base of the crag is. I estimate the ground here has fallen by 10 to 15 feet but the earth is totally waterlogged so may still move some more
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235469
Hopefully the picture above of the ground below fears younger brother will give an idea just how unstable the base of the crag is. I estimate the ground here has fallen by 10 to 15 feet but the earth is totally waterlogged so may still move some more
In reply to nealh:
Hmm, looks like the new starts might be tricky?
...but never mind that, any news of my belay device?
Hmm, looks like the new starts might be tricky?
...but never mind that, any news of my belay device?
In reply to nealh:
I fear the same of the ground underneath Victims Of Fashion. Hasn't slipped off the crag yet, is probably held up by that rock ledge below it but is also completely waterlogged.
I can confirm that Battleship Block hadn't moved when I was there on the 20th. There were climbers on it and the base (whilst muddy) is fine. I was also 'round the back of it taking photos and it doesn't seem to have moved.
The ground holding it up has probably been undercut slightly and the boulders under the brambles at the northern end of it have definitely moved (they've pulled the ground away under Pump Hitler) but I think the block's still safe for the moment.
I fear the same of the ground underneath Victims Of Fashion. Hasn't slipped off the crag yet, is probably held up by that rock ledge below it but is also completely waterlogged.
I can confirm that Battleship Block hadn't moved when I was there on the 20th. There were climbers on it and the base (whilst muddy) is fine. I was also 'round the back of it taking photos and it doesn't seem to have moved.
The ground holding it up has probably been undercut slightly and the boulders under the brambles at the northern end of it have definitely moved (they've pulled the ground away under Pump Hitler) but I think the block's still safe for the moment.
In reply to xyz:
Hi Lee - as I said further up the thread I will put something together but after talking with Neal H will leave it until things have settled down and I have a clearer idea of what is what. You planning on a trip down?
Cheers
Mark
Hi Lee - as I said further up the thread I will put something together but after talking with Neal H will leave it until things have settled down and I have a clearer idea of what is what. You planning on a trip down?
Cheers
Mark
In reply to steve taylor:
Easy for me to say, from 250 miles away (!), but have any of you keen locals thought about trying to dig out some new steps/paths now? You would need to work from ropes using spades and it would be challenging, hard work and probably extremely muddy, not to say potentially treacherous. But that slumped material would be so much easier to dig into whilst it is still fairly saturated, and you could then just leave it to the warm spring sunshine, to bake your masterpiece rock hard!
Mind you, you'd need a way of keeping folk off in the period between construction and completion of the baking phase.
Just a thought, though doubtless you are already well advanced with your own plans...
Good luck!
Neil
Easy for me to say, from 250 miles away (!), but have any of you keen locals thought about trying to dig out some new steps/paths now? You would need to work from ropes using spades and it would be challenging, hard work and probably extremely muddy, not to say potentially treacherous. But that slumped material would be so much easier to dig into whilst it is still fairly saturated, and you could then just leave it to the warm spring sunshine, to bake your masterpiece rock hard!
Mind you, you'd need a way of keeping folk off in the period between construction and completion of the baking phase.
Just a thought, though doubtless you are already well advanced with your own plans...
Good luck!
Neil
In reply to Neil Foster:
Hello Neil your right 250 miles is about as close as you would want to be to the west coast of Portland right now! Having got below the crags last sunday I have to say we will have to let it dry out a bit before trying to cut any steps. At present it would be like cutting steps in 45 degree porridge to make a path below the areas affected
cheers Neal
Hello Neil your right 250 miles is about as close as you would want to be to the west coast of Portland right now! Having got below the crags last sunday I have to say we will have to let it dry out a bit before trying to cut any steps. At present it would be like cutting steps in 45 degree porridge to make a path below the areas affected
cheers Neal
In reply to nealh:
You need to draft in Les Ainsworth from Lancashire, he was the arch architect of some amazing access paths to Lancashire crags, his efforts in the coal measure seam at Anglezarke had to be seen to be believed.
Shame he never got round to his Lester Mill drainage project
You need to draft in Les Ainsworth from Lancashire, he was the arch architect of some amazing access paths to Lancashire crags, his efforts in the coal measure seam at Anglezarke had to be seen to be believed.
Shame he never got round to his Lester Mill drainage project
In reply to steve taylor:
WARNING: The left side of the big cave at Too Funky Beach is about to collapse (will post some photos later). Whilst this may not directly impact (sic) the documented bolted and DWS routes you wouldn't want to be around when this happens. The extended boulder problem "Up, Up and Away" is definitely in a dangerous state.
WARNING: The left side of the big cave at Too Funky Beach is about to collapse (will post some photos later). Whilst this may not directly impact (sic) the documented bolted and DWS routes you wouldn't want to be around when this happens. The extended boulder problem "Up, Up and Away" is definitely in a dangerous state.
In reply to steve taylor:
has anyone been down to coastguard properly. Thinking of heading down there tomorrow but not sure if this is a wise idea or not. What are the chances of being buried under a landslide off the top?
has anyone been down to coastguard properly. Thinking of heading down there tomorrow but not sure if this is a wise idea or not. What are the chances of being buried under a landslide off the top?
In reply to steve taylor:
Bizarrely, this is on someone's Twitter page:
https://twitter.com/johncurtinEA/status/434963137373413376/photo/1
...but the photo is actually an excellent "before" pic (taken on 7 Feb) - the posters are all getting excited about the grassed over spoil tips!!
Now, if they took the same picture today, *that* would be worthwhile
Bizarrely, this is on someone's Twitter page:
https://twitter.com/johncurtinEA/status/434963137373413376/photo/1
...but the photo is actually an excellent "before" pic (taken on 7 Feb) - the posters are all getting excited about the grassed over spoil tips!!
Now, if they took the same picture today, *that* would be worthwhile
In reply to Ben Stokes:
Saving Ben the job - his photo is here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235576
I won't be walking under there now!
Saving Ben the job - his photo is here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235576
I won't be walking under there now!
In reply to steve taylor:
Thanks Steve. The crack flanking the red shaded area has widened suggesting the whole lot will go down. The crack in the ground above the roof is long and quite wide. The roof has already started to slump.
Thanks Steve. The crack flanking the red shaded area has widened suggesting the whole lot will go down. The crack in the ground above the roof is long and quite wide. The roof has already started to slump.
In reply to Ben Stokes:
Oh dear - it's all a bit grim back in Blighty.
At least the Project hasn't collapsed...
Oh dear - it's all a bit grim back in Blighty.
At least the Project hasn't collapsed...
In reply to steve taylor:
Popped back onto the island again today as promised. Apologies for the long post.
Photos being uploaded currently, will add links when available.
Ventured from the Veranda, under the block slab along the edge of the slump, over the muddy bit and down to the new 'beach' by the Fallen Slab - escaped (with my life) up the Blacknor South gully in driving rain and pouring mud.
You can now get a sense of the geology and human history here. It seems the Block Slab is part of a long line of crag that came away a long long time ago - this extends under Battleship Edge and ends at the northern end of BFS. The landslide has moved a lot of it, but it's really clear how the quarry debris covered this over the years. It's this old crag that's holding up the mud at Battleship and is keeping the path under BFS alive.
It's also clear that a lot of the quarry spoil was chert as it's everywhere now - lots of sharp and brittle rock everywhere.
Summary note : Descent via old Battleship and BFS routes will never be possible without abseil. Battleship will need to be approached via southern descent (rope in place for muddy days) and usual gullies. BFS may also be safer being approached from this direction too as the landslide is actually pretty flat.
In essence, the damage can be classified into three areas:
- Battleship (Damaged but usable. Suggest could be prone to further slips)
Block Slab
Lots of cracks and possible movement just south of the block slab - crack opening at the base of Pyschic EMF, doesn't look dodgy though.
The slab itself doesnt' seem to have moved and a good inspection of the land below it shows it seems to be okay.
However, the big boulders on the edge of the grassy promontory below the south end of the block have slipped onto the beach. Lots of damage at sea level. Local boulderers should be able to spot the problems.
Main Cliff
Lots of slippage around the Arc Of A Fridge area, but ground below should hold fine. The 'dead crag' is holding the path up to Battleship and the ground under the Edge up and doesn't look like it will slip at all.
At sea level some of the major boulders have come away from the grass and fallen onto the beach. Some really dodgy ground here.
Battleship Edge
Again, the 'dead crag' is still holding up the ground below the Edge and once dry should be fine.
It's been smashed a bit at the northern end and the rock below it (old flinty edge sticking out of the brambles) has been smashed too.
Once the slip underneath Never Drive A Car has dried it should be fine for an approach and for belaying etc. The actual routes haven't been extended by too much, probably a belay bolt and a proper first bolt will sort them (and some serious cleaning!).
Suggest a new path to these routes can be cut from the Keyboard Wall ledge. Descent will need to be from Battleship south approach though.
Bouldering underneath the edge has again taken a battering by both landslips and the sea. Lowest boulders have been cleaned by the sea but the 'rampart' boulders have slipped and a lot of cherty material has been smashed around them.
- Blacknor Far South (probably best avoiding for a while, scene of major landslide)
Landslip area
The new crag uncovered is running with water and there is a waterfall coming out of a hole in the middle of the crag. Points to a probable cause?
This is probably the safest area though - the old descent mounds are still intact, grassy and solid. Movement around here is easy and when dry this should be safe.
Blood And Chocolate area
No routes damaged at all and all possibly accessible. As Neal points out though, while they can be accessed, the 'dead crag' is holding up a lot of very steep mud, a lot steeper than at Battleship. This could feasibly slip again.
Mechanoids area
No route damage and should be accessible from Battlehsip via kicked steps in dry mud. Path beneath has slipped about 5ft.
Fears Younger Brother to Great Barrier Reef area
Path slipped about 6ft as per Neal's update and photos. Accessible via Mechanoids area BUT is directly over a dodgy part of the 'dead crag' with a lot of mud and lots of water in the mud.
Suggest all climbs north of Mechanoids could be susceptible to more slides and complete inaccessibility if anything moves again.
Where's My Washboard area
This is really messy and there's now a graveyard of flowstone down near the beach (bagged myself a nice piece of tufa as a momento of how bad my footwork was). Shows how the flowstone formed behind a crag which was eventually prised off.
There's now a deep gully below these routes with some huge new boulder exposed and smashed. This is where access gets dodgy. Suggest only via Neal's rope from Blacknor South.
Boulder beach is covered in the landslide with some major 'rampart' boulders pushed onto the beach. Didn't get much of a look on the beach itself as the rain was coming in.
- Blacknor South
Black Pig and trad routes area
Lots of slippage here and still really steep mud and scree. Access via Neal's rope, but this is the area that could be prone to more movement. All of the rock and mud is full of chert spoil which formed grassy mound just before the 'shade tree' at BFS. Most of this is missing and movement between Blacknor South and Far South is difficult no matter which height you approach from. IF the area settles then of course pathways could be established. I do worry about how much mud is still held by very little in the way of boulder support though.
Medusa Falls / Cute Ass areas.
As per Neal's update, dropped about 6ft and again, lots of muddy crap around the base of the crags. This is probably the biggest risk - the sea has washed a way a lot of the mud that's slipped down and left no support for the mud above.
Fallen Slab / Sharbutts.
Fallen slab descent has slipped but is still passable.
Land under Jutland has moved again, now about 6ft up to routes and some worrying looking cracks in the mound that leads up to the descent gully.
I'd put money on this whole area going if we have another winter like that.
Will post links to photos when they're available and will host as much as I can externally (panos and videos).
Popped back onto the island again today as promised. Apologies for the long post.
Photos being uploaded currently, will add links when available.
Ventured from the Veranda, under the block slab along the edge of the slump, over the muddy bit and down to the new 'beach' by the Fallen Slab - escaped (with my life) up the Blacknor South gully in driving rain and pouring mud.
You can now get a sense of the geology and human history here. It seems the Block Slab is part of a long line of crag that came away a long long time ago - this extends under Battleship Edge and ends at the northern end of BFS. The landslide has moved a lot of it, but it's really clear how the quarry debris covered this over the years. It's this old crag that's holding up the mud at Battleship and is keeping the path under BFS alive.
It's also clear that a lot of the quarry spoil was chert as it's everywhere now - lots of sharp and brittle rock everywhere.
Summary note : Descent via old Battleship and BFS routes will never be possible without abseil. Battleship will need to be approached via southern descent (rope in place for muddy days) and usual gullies. BFS may also be safer being approached from this direction too as the landslide is actually pretty flat.
In essence, the damage can be classified into three areas:
- Battleship (Damaged but usable. Suggest could be prone to further slips)
Block Slab
Lots of cracks and possible movement just south of the block slab - crack opening at the base of Pyschic EMF, doesn't look dodgy though.
The slab itself doesnt' seem to have moved and a good inspection of the land below it shows it seems to be okay.
However, the big boulders on the edge of the grassy promontory below the south end of the block have slipped onto the beach. Lots of damage at sea level. Local boulderers should be able to spot the problems.
Main Cliff
Lots of slippage around the Arc Of A Fridge area, but ground below should hold fine. The 'dead crag' is holding the path up to Battleship and the ground under the Edge up and doesn't look like it will slip at all.
At sea level some of the major boulders have come away from the grass and fallen onto the beach. Some really dodgy ground here.
Battleship Edge
Again, the 'dead crag' is still holding up the ground below the Edge and once dry should be fine.
It's been smashed a bit at the northern end and the rock below it (old flinty edge sticking out of the brambles) has been smashed too.
Once the slip underneath Never Drive A Car has dried it should be fine for an approach and for belaying etc. The actual routes haven't been extended by too much, probably a belay bolt and a proper first bolt will sort them (and some serious cleaning!).
Suggest a new path to these routes can be cut from the Keyboard Wall ledge. Descent will need to be from Battleship south approach though.
Bouldering underneath the edge has again taken a battering by both landslips and the sea. Lowest boulders have been cleaned by the sea but the 'rampart' boulders have slipped and a lot of cherty material has been smashed around them.
- Blacknor Far South (probably best avoiding for a while, scene of major landslide)
Landslip area
The new crag uncovered is running with water and there is a waterfall coming out of a hole in the middle of the crag. Points to a probable cause?
This is probably the safest area though - the old descent mounds are still intact, grassy and solid. Movement around here is easy and when dry this should be safe.
Blood And Chocolate area
No routes damaged at all and all possibly accessible. As Neal points out though, while they can be accessed, the 'dead crag' is holding up a lot of very steep mud, a lot steeper than at Battleship. This could feasibly slip again.
Mechanoids area
No route damage and should be accessible from Battlehsip via kicked steps in dry mud. Path beneath has slipped about 5ft.
Fears Younger Brother to Great Barrier Reef area
Path slipped about 6ft as per Neal's update and photos. Accessible via Mechanoids area BUT is directly over a dodgy part of the 'dead crag' with a lot of mud and lots of water in the mud.
Suggest all climbs north of Mechanoids could be susceptible to more slides and complete inaccessibility if anything moves again.
Where's My Washboard area
This is really messy and there's now a graveyard of flowstone down near the beach (bagged myself a nice piece of tufa as a momento of how bad my footwork was). Shows how the flowstone formed behind a crag which was eventually prised off.
There's now a deep gully below these routes with some huge new boulder exposed and smashed. This is where access gets dodgy. Suggest only via Neal's rope from Blacknor South.
Boulder beach is covered in the landslide with some major 'rampart' boulders pushed onto the beach. Didn't get much of a look on the beach itself as the rain was coming in.
- Blacknor South
Black Pig and trad routes area
Lots of slippage here and still really steep mud and scree. Access via Neal's rope, but this is the area that could be prone to more movement. All of the rock and mud is full of chert spoil which formed grassy mound just before the 'shade tree' at BFS. Most of this is missing and movement between Blacknor South and Far South is difficult no matter which height you approach from. IF the area settles then of course pathways could be established. I do worry about how much mud is still held by very little in the way of boulder support though.
Medusa Falls / Cute Ass areas.
As per Neal's update, dropped about 6ft and again, lots of muddy crap around the base of the crags. This is probably the biggest risk - the sea has washed a way a lot of the mud that's slipped down and left no support for the mud above.
Fallen Slab / Sharbutts.
Fallen slab descent has slipped but is still passable.
Land under Jutland has moved again, now about 6ft up to routes and some worrying looking cracks in the mound that leads up to the descent gully.
I'd put money on this whole area going if we have another winter like that.
Will post links to photos when they're available and will host as much as I can externally (panos and videos).
Post edited at 14:10
In reply to steve taylor:
Okay, so I can't edit a post twice.
Photos are here:
My UKC gallery
http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/author.html?id=11013
My personal gallery (pictures are displayed in reverse order, from my escape at Blacknor back to entry at Battleship)
http://www.benthorne.co.uk
To view gallery on a mobile, use
http://ben-thorne.squarespace.com
Okay, so I can't edit a post twice.
Photos are here:
My UKC gallery
http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/author.html?id=11013
My personal gallery (pictures are displayed in reverse order, from my escape at Blacknor back to entry at Battleship)
http://www.benthorne.co.uk
To view gallery on a mobile, use
http://ben-thorne.squarespace.com
In reply to Ben Thorne:
Great photos Ben, thanks. I am still puzzling over where the huge volume of stuff where the old way down to BE and BFS was has gone...I am hypothesising that all the old quarry spoil was in large angular blocks which was stacked very inefficiently...and has now spread out more efficiently over a larger area with a consequent reduction in volume.
Anyway, the area under Jutland looks like it has moved since I was there last weekend!
Great photos Ben, thanks. I am still puzzling over where the huge volume of stuff where the old way down to BE and BFS was has gone...I am hypothesising that all the old quarry spoil was in large angular blocks which was stacked very inefficiently...and has now spread out more efficiently over a larger area with a consequent reduction in volume.
Anyway, the area under Jutland looks like it has moved since I was there last weekend!
In reply to Nic:
I believe people have stated it was a rotational landslide - so as the side closer to land has slipped down, the other end of the rotation (closer to the sea) has moved up - hence the big lump (which someone described as being like a terminal moraine) away from the cliff which has been raised up.
the left bit in this photo...
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235093
I believe people have stated it was a rotational landslide - so as the side closer to land has slipped down, the other end of the rotation (closer to the sea) has moved up - hence the big lump (which someone described as being like a terminal moraine) away from the cliff which has been raised up.
the left bit in this photo...
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235093
Post edited at 21:04
In reply to Nic:
It's still there Nic, I walked over it. It's just not where you'd expect it to be.
If you imagine a line splitting both crags in the middle, the descent to Battleship slipped perfectly intact. But only about 60ft.
The descent into BFS dropped into a steeper area and has moved about 100ft. This photo shows the blocks at the top of the slipped material, but there's a big gap between it and the crag, whereas the slide at the Battleship end is closer to the crag. There was further to go for the BFS stuff - down that big ravine.
https://ben-thorne.squarespace.com/67l3f3a1kaz0o19w7burs7ct0dm5gh
I guess it's not a true landslide as it wasn't 'land' in the first place. There was already a broken crag and spoil underneath so that caused it to behave differently.
It's still there Nic, I walked over it. It's just not where you'd expect it to be.
If you imagine a line splitting both crags in the middle, the descent to Battleship slipped perfectly intact. But only about 60ft.
The descent into BFS dropped into a steeper area and has moved about 100ft. This photo shows the blocks at the top of the slipped material, but there's a big gap between it and the crag, whereas the slide at the Battleship end is closer to the crag. There was further to go for the BFS stuff - down that big ravine.
https://ben-thorne.squarespace.com/67l3f3a1kaz0o19w7burs7ct0dm5gh
I guess it's not a true landslide as it wasn't 'land' in the first place. There was already a broken crag and spoil underneath so that caused it to behave differently.
In reply to Ben Thorne:
Thanks for your repeated efforts going to check this out, and documenting this in photos and explaining this Ben. Interesting and much appreciated by those who know the area.
Thanks for your repeated efforts going to check this out, and documenting this in photos and explaining this Ben. Interesting and much appreciated by those who know the area.
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