UKC

Hello,

How compatible are motorbikes and climbing? Is 2 on a bike with winter kit and tent possible? Would my dreams of getting a bike round locked forestry gates be possible to get to top carpark on the Ben, get in to Carnmore, etc...? I was thinking some sort of light sports tourer, though would be keen for suggestions?...

I've always wanted a motorbike and as I think my car is on it's way out have the excuse to replace it with a bike and use her car when needed.

In reply to jonnie3430:

What bike are you thinking? If you're thinking of a sporty 125 then no, but if you're looking at a decent sized tourer then it's entirely possible. As to getting round forestry gates, I have no idea.

In reply to mwr72:


Some sports tourer type maybe, whatever is cheapish and best for the job really!

In reply to jonnie3430:

Have a look here...
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/bikereviews/searchresults/sports-tourers/...
And here...http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-top-10s/top-10-sports-tourers/11412-11....
The above links should give you an idea, but as I've always had a pure sport bike I'm not in a position to comment on what sport tourer owners prefer, there are a few sport tourer owners on here I believe so hopefully someone will be along soon to offer a more informed opinion.

In reply to jonnie3430:

worked for bonnington and Whillans going to the alps.

http://i.imgur.com/ixvTlhT.jpg

In reply to jonnie3430:

If you want to go 2 up with luggage you are looking at the bigger sort of bikes. Certainly there are plenty of bikes that will have the load carrying capacity you require but the extra bulk might make squeezing round locked forestry gates a bit harder.

If you are planning winter use you should really bear in mind that no bike works well when there is frost on the ground, and no bike works well when its very windy. I'm a huge motorbike fan and own many, but wouldn't consider having a bike as my only mode of transport.

In reply to jonnie3430:

It would be possible depending on how lightweight you went, or how big you had your luggage, but if you go to big on the luggage you'll take up the same amount of space as a car (trust me i know).

If your riding in snow and the like personally id suggest a big trail bike or an "adventure" bike as the seating position seems to help.

it is do able but it will be face, finger, toes and balls numbingly cold, but its always worth it.

Enjoy and update us of you do decide to get one.

In reply to jonnie3430:

I really wouldn't bother. Having climbed and ridden for many years, combining the 2 is possible, and fun, but in winter it is hard work. Even with heated gear, I arrived at the North Face car park a few years ago semi hypothermic. You then have to sort out the gear from panniers/luggage into a rucksack, as you can't ride with a rucksack on and a pillion.

As for going round barriers, sure it's possible. But when authorities, walkers or climbers see your bike where it shouldn't be, be prepared for some flack and perhaps rightly so as well.

After a long day, the last thing you will want to do is get on a bike to ride back to your accommodation.

However, just do it and then you too can come on climbing forums and give the next person with the same idea the benefit of your wisdom.

Rich.

In reply to jonnie3430:

Ian from Summits (hi if you're reading this btw) used to ride his DT125 and solo routes on Beinn Udlaidh. I've ridden one of those bikes through a couple of Scottish Winters but never used it to go climbing. I'd probably not be keen to do it.

The logistics of carrying all your kit would be a pain, plus I'd definitely not relish the prospect of driving home in damp gear. Bikes are great fun but I'd need a family size pack of MTFU pills to consider one for Winter climbing. I'm too fond of those trainers, duvet jaiket and heater on full blast moments post- escalade.

In reply to Mad Hatter 1988:


Cheers for the replies, any comment on a BMW F650?

In reply to jonnie3430:

I've ridden a bike to Scotland, sports and sports tourer, for climbing trips in summer one up. Eight or nine hours in the saddle is quite tiring but not without good points, like the A835 beyond Inverness and Ullapool.

I wouldn't be keen on doing it in winter in the poor weather and cold temperatures for more than an hour or so; it is a depressing experience especially at night. Two wheels and a big engine do not get on well with snowy or icy roads.

In reply to Horse:

youtube.com/watch?v=mXzVNFrLzk0&

Seemed to work OK for this fella? He does look hardy though.

In reply to hamsforlegs:

I've seen that before good film, I notice he put gloves on to climb.

In reply to jonnie3430:

I'd echo the thoughts of others on here who have had real experience of it.

Climbing - fun

Biking - fun

Winter - fun

Combination of all 3 - hard work.

In reply to teflonpete:

If I remove the winter, how does it work?

In reply to jonnie3430:


Not big enough for the adventures you are planning. It will be hugely underpowered and hard to handle with the sort of weight you are planning to add to it (unless your climbing partner is 8 stone or less).

Also, and I appreciate this is subjective, it is ugly and overall a sh1te bike*.

*other opinions may vary.

In reply to M0nkey:

Ill agree with ugly and there have been a few with there faults but in not sure about under powered.

No you wont be able to launch yourself to near warp speed within a few metres but it'll do it, having ridden a cbf500, restricted to 33bhp, 2 up with stuff for both of us for a week and still being one of the quickest things around north Wales and reading many things about people going around the world in C90's i think its be fine providing you understand its limitations.

In reply to jonnie3430:

I used to strap bouldering pads to my gsx1400 haven't tried on the ninja tho lol

In reply to Mad Hatter 1988 and M0nkey:

What'd you recommend instead? I dunno about panniers, something that isn't huge and can go up forestry tracks.

In reply to jonnie3430:

I had the F800GS and It was amazing, the touratech panniers allow for loads of gear to be carried. I used to travel around Spain trad/sport climbing on it and had plenty of space to carry camping and climbing gear.

Like others have mentioned though... winter climbing sounds a bit too much to use a bike as transport for, I wouldn't wanna be cold and knackered and riding back home on it.

In reply to jonnie3430:

I don't winter climb but in my experience trad and sport are quite possible on a bike but an awful lot more faff than a car and not that much fun in anything other than ideal conditions. That said many of the experiences you will be glad to have had when you no longer have the opportunity are fun at the time ... go for it!

In reply to jonnie3430:

When i started climbing i had a small motorbike before i got a car. I've many happy memories of the 40 minute ride out to Windgather or the Lancashire quarries of Wilton and Angelzarke but that was for a summers evening cragging. Looking back now for longer trips away for the weekend and in Winter it really was pretty grim at times.

In reply to jonnie3430:

Two up and luggage on a solo is not that practical but I used to go climbing with a sidecar. On the other hand a sidecar is only marginally better than a car for getting through narrow gates The problem of cold can be solved by having a screen and handlebar muffs and a decent set of waterproofs, climbing ones will do, and wearing a duvet underneath, but it is a acquired taste all the same. My longest trip, in terms of time, was from the Sussex coast to Llanberis, the white bunkhouse, in 14 hours. It was an old BSA A10 650 with plunger frame and a double Watsonian side car. Top speed was about 55 and as it was all set up wrong it pulled to one side so much I had to put both hands on the same side at times. When I arrived I was so bow-legged I walked like John Wayne.

That was the worst trip, on a well set up sidecar is can be good fun and you can carry all your gear and a passenger easily. Just on your own a solo bike is fine, with a rucksack behind and a smaller bag on the petrol tank, but a windscreen or fairing really makes life a lot more pleasant.

In reply to jonnie3430:
Keep in mind I've not gone winter climbing in Scotland or ridden a motor bike, but the thought of having a long day out in the hills and then having to concentrate with wintry road conditions on a motor bike at motor bike speeds (with a motor bike's weight) while knackered in mind and body, might be enough to make me want sit down by the road and wish for a lift to appear.

On a pedal bike with non studded tyres wintry conditions can be taxing enough in the dark, you'd only really need a patch of black ice to send you sliding, which would be the final straw for me when knackered in the dark after a climb and the related walks in and out. It might hurt, too.

Just my 2p's worth, warmth and comfort are precious things. ()

In reply to jonnie3430:
From how knackered I've been after being out in the snow for a few hours in the Peak on my mountain bike and not relished the wintry roads and focussing while getting back home in the dark, I think you'd definitely be hard core to carry out your plan.

Brrrr! ()

In reply to jonnie3430:

Honestly its all about personal preference, whatever it is wont stay standard for long. I ride a Honda CBF500 which isn't the most exciting of bike but its never let me down, handles itself off road far better than it should and its got a lot of non standard stuff on it from panniers to a high level motor cross mud guard.

it also depends on what type of engine you'd like, single, twin, v-twin, inline 4, boxer and then there's shaft drive and make.

Personally i like the yamaha Tenere (XT600z i think) but in to short to ride one.

The bmw Serato is meant to be good but the paint on the engine cases isn't always great.

KLR 650 are meant to be bomb proof but not always easy to find.

The old Honda XRV750, Africa twin, i personally think is gorgeous although heavy and lacking in power.

then there's the naked road bikes like the old Honda CB500 the cbf500/600/1000 the Kawasaki ER6 is a good shout as well and a personal favourite of mine which they've just stopped making is the yamaha MT-03

you'll get more or less anything up a forestry track, my old man does it on a Honda hornet with the bikini fairing but something where your upright and not loading the front wheel will feel a lot safer.

In reply to jonnie3430:

Also don't forget that the clutch and the front brake are lever on the handle bars and if you've got pumped put of your mind it can be interesting riding home, or the next day.

In reply to Timmd:

In fact a motorbike feels light once you get moving, riding a solo
on ice and snow isn't fun though, fine on a sidecar.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

That makes sense.

In reply to jonnie3430:

Have done summer touring and riding and it is great fun. Camping with midges not great but it's Scotland so it's worth it. I did this on a Yamaha XT600e, I wouldn't have liked to do that 2 up. Maybe with a much large bike it would be ok, you need physical space and an engine to carry all the extra weight.

Winter riding is interesting, it is difficult to keep warm on long journeys. Going just 10-20mph slower definitely makes a difference. Heated gear will make a difference. Stopping regularly helps. I haven't got much experience with winter camping but I can't imagine it working well with motorbiking. How do you dry wet gear? Wet gear and cold air temperatures isn't fun.

In reply to Timmd:
Bear in mind that Bruce is a nutter
When was the last time you saw a sidecar on the road? There's a reason for that! The handling is appalling, although maybe slightly better than a solo A10 plunger.
As to the OP, I bought my first car at age 39, a die hard all year round biker. But I'd draw the line at winter climbing on a bike. I'd have to MTFU, and MTFU again, before I'd consider it.

In reply to jonnie3430:

Ktm 990 or honda xl 700 get you anywhere if you can ride em properly.

In reply to CharlieW:

Also, if you go to eat in a pub and get nice and warm and drowsy after a starter and steak and ale pie and sticky toffee pudding, you have to go out into the cold again back to the tent rather than upstairs to a bed and duvet. keeping in mind you're tired after climbing, this seems to get worse. ()

In reply to Hooo:


I've heard about the steering being weird with sidecars. I suppose 'acquired taste' says a lot, I guess it's the kind of thing you'd just do if you wanted to go winter climbing and all you had was a bike to get to Scotland with, not fun but doable.

In reply to jonnie3430:

Every time I have been in a side car I have ended up in a hedge at some point on the journey! Although I have only been in a side car twice...

In reply to jonnie3430:

Have you thought about an R1?

youtube.com/watch?v=OX_weIUwd_o&

Looks like great fun.

In reply to jonnie3430:

I've considered using my bike for climbing or walking trips, but always been put off by what to do with the motorbike gear whilst on the hill. What do most people do about this? It wouldn't fit in the bike luggage (jacket with back protector, big boots etc) and I wouldn't be keen on leaving it out with a lock through it as I can imagine the insides getting quite wet if it rained.

In reply to Hooo:


This year, but it's true they are rare nowadays, they weren't that common back when I used them... I may be a nutter but what then do you call people suggesting winter camping using a solo motorbike two up with luggage?

The reason sidecars are out of favour is that for most people a car is a better alternative... you don't see many Reliant Robins either, do you? The financial advantages have more or less disappeared. I used one when I didn't have a car license, getting a bike licence was so simple - things have changed. What would the police do if you drove around the West End of London with two up on the bike and three people on a lorry tail board bolted to the sidecar chassis and the one in front holding an umbrella? Back then they laughed and let you go, would they do the same today?

In reply to mwr72:
Never owned a motor bike but have been a passenger for climbing trips - OK for summer, although you have to think about what you need to take but the few winter climbing trips were pretty grim, especially if camping; don't think I've ever been so cold and they were just Stirling to Crianlarich or Glencoe.

In reply to rockcatch:


For the odd winter trip on a bike, I have worn my climbing clothing and boots from wherever I was staying to the parking / walk in point. Not ideal, but both options of either leaving all the riding gear at the bike or carrying it in to the climbing area are not ideal.

During summer, I normally walk to the crag, if it's not too far, in my riding gear and boots with some lighter trousers / shorts underneath to climb in.

Perhaps we have too much riding gear these days and / or are a bit soft. There are lots of stories and pics of climbers in bygone days riding bikes to go climbing in both summer and winter e.g. Bonington and Whillans.

In reply to Richard White:

Perhaps it's because before a motorbike was a poor man's means of transport whereas today this is hardly the case?

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Ha ha, I love that sort of homemade bike silliness, but you're right, you'd never get away with it nowadays.
I've done winter camping two up on a 70s Bonnie. It was fun at the time, but only bearable by spending most of the time in the pub. Plus, I was 19 and willing to try anything. I recall standing in a service station toilet between a pair of hand dryers, one glove on each, then repeating with my socks.

In reply to Richard White:


I've definitely gone soft. When I think of the shite gear I had when I first started biking I can't believe I did it. 6 hours to North Wales in February, wearing an open face lid and a woolly jumper under a cheap leather. I'll never forget buying my first fleece from Cotswold, it was a revelation how something that thin could keep me so warm.

In reply to rockcatch:

When I do it, I ride in my walking boots instead of bike boots so that makes it easier. I then have a huge dry bag which hits my Kevlar jeans, helmet, gloves and bike jacket in. I then lock this to my bike using the helmet loops under the seat.

If you are really worried about someone nicking your gear you could try a pacsafe backpack protector: http://pacsafe.com/pacsafe-120l-backpack-protector

In reply to CharlieW:

Johnny Ibbotson once took me and Rod Haslam from Sheffield to Llanberis (for the week) on the back of his Heinkel Scooter (bench seat). One of us used to get off as we went through towns and Johnny would take the other through and come back for the other of us. Some villages we would risk as a three, the route to Wales was more minor roads then but I think we still used the A5 for the last bit. It was quite an adventure, no tents we used to sleep in the barn near Dolbadarn Castle.

In reply to jonnie3430:

Hi,

Sorry to be a wet blanket but I don't think this would be much fun. Used to ride my bike to go summer climbing occasionally and it was just a bit of a faff to be honest. Don't have a bike anymore-expensive toy for me.

In winter, if there's any ice on the road you are running a major risk. It just takes the front wheel to go off round a bend and there's no recovery. So you probably couldn't take the bike every time.

On top of that, if you are a new rider just passed direct access (sorry if your not just an assumption from your post) riding 2 up with lots of heavy gear is more challenging and higher risk.

That said bikes are great fun

In reply to Al Evans:

That sounds awesome. When I turned 16 and got my first bike in 1984, a DT 50, I towed my mate on his push bike all the way from Scarborough up to the Bridestones in Dalby Forest. By the time we got there he was too pumped, from holding on, to climb!

In reply to Richard White:

A yammer DT50! Youd have been Better getting yer Mate to tow you up on his pushbike :-D

In reply to Choss:

I didn't say how long it took us to get there! Wasn't that much quicker than when we both cycled. Thankfully, my friend was 16 a few weeks later and got his own bike.

In reply to jonnie3430:

If you are planning 2 up trips with lots of gear, you will be most comfortable in one of the big bikes. I'd be thinking of a Pan Euro, Blackbird, any of the big BMW trailies - something like that. Of course as others have pointed out you can technically do it on a smaller bike. I have had several great trips on my cbr600 with two up and 3 full panniers. My experience is that stopping is stressful and energy sapping, and the constant leaning forwards to keep the front wheel down on any sort of acceleration is a challenge. It is worth mentioning that my passenger was only 8st. If I was doing touring with a heavier pillion, I'd be looking for 1000cc plus, no question.