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Is the above possible at the same time? could anyone suggest a exercise and diet program to facilitate it?
In reply to goldmember:
It's definitely possible, but won't be easy. You'll need to work extremely hard, eat quality food with plenty of protein, eat only just enough and maintain commitment to your goals for long enough to see results.
Exercise: generally, explosive workouts will yield the greatest bang for your buck, prompting an increase in post-exercise metabolic rate (and thus burning fat) without inducing muscle catabolism (as long steady-state sessions are wont to do). That means performing maximal effort sessions over a variety of intervals from very short bursts of heavy resistance (e.g. Olympic lifts) to somewhat longer intervals using lighter resistance (e.g. Tabata sets, minute on / minute off sprints).
Big, 'real-world' movements are the ideal - avoid the bodybuilding ethos of isolating muscles as far as possible. Also be aware that you must not start hauling on big weights without learning appropriate form. Weightlifting properly is a skill, and many aspects are not intuitive. Youtube and sites such as Dragon Door, Bodybuilding.com can be a rich source of info, but far better would be some coaching from someone appropriately qualified / experienced. Further, intense exercise releases big quantities of endorphins which may mask pain; be careful to listen to your body and stop at the first sign of injury.
Diet: research seems to suggest one can fend off catabolic damage and support tissue repair with sufficient intake of protein within 30 minutes of session ending. You'll want some protein shake, as it's cheaper than meat / eggs etc. and of appropriate physiological quality to be readily utilised. That said, a study I saw recently suggested that the timing of protein intake is far more important than the nature of the protein.
Some folk are having good fat loss results using the 5:2 diet. Anecdotally I use it myself: my fitness goals are somewhat different to yours as I'm currently focused on increasing CV endurance. Despite significant weight loss over the 3 months I've used it, my peak strength hasn't decined significantly across a variety of movements and body fat is considerably reduced (now estimated at approx. 10%). What the research says on this I'm not sure. I know it's working well for me, and I have no problem training on 'fast' days.
Be aware that with your aim in mind, weight loss per se won't be a useful guide as to your progress. If you can, go to an exercise physiologist who can take accurate body fat measurements using calipers; you can then compare results reliably over time. Better yet, such a person will be able to offer useful advice on how best to achieve your goals. Alternatively and more cheaply you can get some useful data from periodic hip, waist and neck measurements.
Although I have reservations about some of the organisation's literary output (a bit dogmatic in some instances to say the least) I would think CrossFit might be a good place to start for you. Ensure the instructor pays adequate attention to promoting the concept of good form, particularly when lifting weights. If they don't, walk away. Good luck!
It's definitely possible, but won't be easy. You'll need to work extremely hard, eat quality food with plenty of protein, eat only just enough and maintain commitment to your goals for long enough to see results.
Exercise: generally, explosive workouts will yield the greatest bang for your buck, prompting an increase in post-exercise metabolic rate (and thus burning fat) without inducing muscle catabolism (as long steady-state sessions are wont to do). That means performing maximal effort sessions over a variety of intervals from very short bursts of heavy resistance (e.g. Olympic lifts) to somewhat longer intervals using lighter resistance (e.g. Tabata sets, minute on / minute off sprints).
Big, 'real-world' movements are the ideal - avoid the bodybuilding ethos of isolating muscles as far as possible. Also be aware that you must not start hauling on big weights without learning appropriate form. Weightlifting properly is a skill, and many aspects are not intuitive. Youtube and sites such as Dragon Door, Bodybuilding.com can be a rich source of info, but far better would be some coaching from someone appropriately qualified / experienced. Further, intense exercise releases big quantities of endorphins which may mask pain; be careful to listen to your body and stop at the first sign of injury.
Diet: research seems to suggest one can fend off catabolic damage and support tissue repair with sufficient intake of protein within 30 minutes of session ending. You'll want some protein shake, as it's cheaper than meat / eggs etc. and of appropriate physiological quality to be readily utilised. That said, a study I saw recently suggested that the timing of protein intake is far more important than the nature of the protein.
Some folk are having good fat loss results using the 5:2 diet. Anecdotally I use it myself: my fitness goals are somewhat different to yours as I'm currently focused on increasing CV endurance. Despite significant weight loss over the 3 months I've used it, my peak strength hasn't decined significantly across a variety of movements and body fat is considerably reduced (now estimated at approx. 10%). What the research says on this I'm not sure. I know it's working well for me, and I have no problem training on 'fast' days.
Be aware that with your aim in mind, weight loss per se won't be a useful guide as to your progress. If you can, go to an exercise physiologist who can take accurate body fat measurements using calipers; you can then compare results reliably over time. Better yet, such a person will be able to offer useful advice on how best to achieve your goals. Alternatively and more cheaply you can get some useful data from periodic hip, waist and neck measurements.
Although I have reservations about some of the organisation's literary output (a bit dogmatic in some instances to say the least) I would think CrossFit might be a good place to start for you. Ensure the instructor pays adequate attention to promoting the concept of good form, particularly when lifting weights. If they don't, walk away. Good luck!
In reply to toad:
why is it never "eat less, do more exercise"?
> Iknow this one wierd trick that the doctors won't tell you about......
why is it never "eat less, do more exercise"?
In reply to Dom Whillans:
Because it over simplifies a problem of complex biology.
> why is it never "eat less, do more exercise"?
Because it over simplifies a problem of complex biology.
In reply to goldmember:
Unless assisted doing both at the same time is a real struggle for most as the aims conflict with each other (easier to split the two)
Unless assisted doing both at the same time is a real struggle for most as the aims conflict with each other (easier to split the two)
In reply to goldmember:
Try a 5X5 workout:
Mon - Deadlift & Chinning
Wed - Bench press/planching & Row/Bodylever
Fri - Back Squats & Military Press/Handstands
Diet:
1) Eat REAL FOOD (food you could theoretically forage & hunt).
2) Eat nose to tail.
3) Limit processed food inc cheese, juices and grains.
4) Eat in an 8 hour window during the week.
5) Eat a lot of starchy carbohydrate on a training day (+20% of daily calories), and dial it back considerably on a rest day (-20%).
6) Eat 3 meals in your 'window'; including about 50g of protein in each meal.
7) Eat most of your carbohydrate in the post training meal (up to 200g)
Other:
SLEEP, SLEEP, SLEEP. (Avoid blue light after 2100hrs).
De-stress.
Don't obsess over calorie counting. Numbers above are for guidance only.!
Try a 5X5 workout:
Mon - Deadlift & Chinning
Wed - Bench press/planching & Row/Bodylever
Fri - Back Squats & Military Press/Handstands
Diet:
1) Eat REAL FOOD (food you could theoretically forage & hunt).
2) Eat nose to tail.
3) Limit processed food inc cheese, juices and grains.
4) Eat in an 8 hour window during the week.
5) Eat a lot of starchy carbohydrate on a training day (+20% of daily calories), and dial it back considerably on a rest day (-20%).
6) Eat 3 meals in your 'window'; including about 50g of protein in each meal.
7) Eat most of your carbohydrate in the post training meal (up to 200g)
Other:
SLEEP, SLEEP, SLEEP. (Avoid blue light after 2100hrs).
De-stress.
Don't obsess over calorie counting. Numbers above are for guidance only.!
In reply to ow arm:
It's just a short hand concept so don't get hung up about it, but potatoes, sweet potatoes, squash and carrots are a good place to start.
> what starchy carbs would you suggest that could be foraged/hunted?
It's just a short hand concept so don't get hung up about it, but potatoes, sweet potatoes, squash and carrots are a good place to start.
In reply to Shani:
What does "eat nose to tail" mean?
Somewhat related, I've started going to the gym more recently and at first I found myself falling into the trap of lifting as much as I could fairly slowly with a low number of repetitions. This seems to be what the "gym rats" do and as an intimidated beginner I followed what the stronger people seemed to be doing.
Now I've moved more towards training in a way that makes much more logical sense to me - choose weights that don't feel particularly heavy on the first lift, move them fast and for a longer time. Now I sweat a lot more and generally feel like I've actually achieved something each day. Of course good form must be maintained.
What does "eat nose to tail" mean?
Somewhat related, I've started going to the gym more recently and at first I found myself falling into the trap of lifting as much as I could fairly slowly with a low number of repetitions. This seems to be what the "gym rats" do and as an intimidated beginner I followed what the stronger people seemed to be doing.
Now I've moved more towards training in a way that makes much more logical sense to me - choose weights that don't feel particularly heavy on the first lift, move them fast and for a longer time. Now I sweat a lot more and generally feel like I've actually achieved something each day. Of course good form must be maintained.
In reply to Shani:
That's interesting - I've not been getting enough sleep for ages and found I'm putting on weight. How you got any more info on the link between sleep and weight gain, please?
> SLEEP, SLEEP, SLEEP. (Avoid blue light after 2100hrs).
That's interesting - I've not been getting enough sleep for ages and found I'm putting on weight. How you got any more info on the link between sleep and weight gain, please?
In reply to goldmember:
A bit more advice regarding diet: assuming your diet is composed of generally high-quality food (always avoiding processed carbs, as Shani points out) a simple measure you can use to avoid overeating is a satiety scale. It's a subjective estimate, usually arbitrarily ranging from 1-10 where 1 is 'famished' and 10 is 'painfully full'. If you aim to eat to a 5 or a 6 (satisfied, but could manage more) you should be taking in enough calories to replenish your depleted glycogen stores post-workout and maintain muscular growth without excess.
With your two goals running concurrently, it's inevitable you will have to go through periods of feeling somewhat hungry, and you may well find yourself experiencing a greater degree of post-exercise muscular soreness than otherwise (there seems to be a link between insufficient protein intake and extended DOMS or delayed-onset muscular soreness). As lost1977 says, your aims are somewhat conflicting, although not inevitably so. As above, ensure a high-quality diet in general, and have protein to hand for when you finish exercising.
Whichever diet method you try, it's important to take your baseline before you begin (weight and circumferences) and stick with the method long enough to see results (so long as it's bearable given your workouts). This way you'll find something which works well for you, and you can avoid repeating mistakes.
A bit more advice regarding diet: assuming your diet is composed of generally high-quality food (always avoiding processed carbs, as Shani points out) a simple measure you can use to avoid overeating is a satiety scale. It's a subjective estimate, usually arbitrarily ranging from 1-10 where 1 is 'famished' and 10 is 'painfully full'. If you aim to eat to a 5 or a 6 (satisfied, but could manage more) you should be taking in enough calories to replenish your depleted glycogen stores post-workout and maintain muscular growth without excess.
With your two goals running concurrently, it's inevitable you will have to go through periods of feeling somewhat hungry, and you may well find yourself experiencing a greater degree of post-exercise muscular soreness than otherwise (there seems to be a link between insufficient protein intake and extended DOMS or delayed-onset muscular soreness). As lost1977 says, your aims are somewhat conflicting, although not inevitably so. As above, ensure a high-quality diet in general, and have protein to hand for when you finish exercising.
Whichever diet method you try, it's important to take your baseline before you begin (weight and circumferences) and stick with the method long enough to see results (so long as it's bearable given your workouts). This way you'll find something which works well for you, and you can avoid repeating mistakes.
In reply to Bob_the_Builder:
Nose to tail means eat organ meat (and fat) as well as the prime cuts. With regard to weights, try 5x5 with one minute rests between sets. After six weeks or so, move to reverse pyramid training for a further six week block. In both cases, start working off a sensible weight of around 75% RM.
> What does "eat nose to tail" mean?
> Somewhat related, I've started going to the gym more recently and at first I found myself falling into the trap of lifting as much as I could fairly slowly with a low number of repetitions. This seems to be what the "gym rats" do and as an intimidated beginner I followed what the stronger people seemed to be doing.
> Now I've moved more towards training in a way that makes much more logical sense to me - choose weights that don't feel particularly heavy on the first lift, move them fast and for a longer time. Now I sweat a lot more and generally feel like I've actually achieved something each day. Of course good form must be maintained.
Nose to tail means eat organ meat (and fat) as well as the prime cuts. With regard to weights, try 5x5 with one minute rests between sets. After six weeks or so, move to reverse pyramid training for a further six week block. In both cases, start working off a sensible weight of around 75% RM.
Post edited at 08:43
In reply to Tony Naylor:
Growth hormone spikes 600% of daytime average with good sleep and cortisol levels drop right down (a good thing).
Poor sleep can impair insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance (this may be what you are experiencing). Lack of sleep may also increase perceived levels of exertion (so you can't crush as hard).
Sleep is massively annabolic. We grow in bed, not the gym.
Growth hormone spikes 600% of daytime average with good sleep and cortisol levels drop right down (a good thing).
Poor sleep can impair insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance (this may be what you are experiencing). Lack of sleep may also increase perceived levels of exertion (so you can't crush as hard).
Sleep is massively annabolic. We grow in bed, not the gym.
In reply to Tony Naylor:
bad sleep = higher cortisol = weight gain
> That's interesting - I've not been getting enough sleep for ages and found I'm putting on weight. How you got any more info on the link between sleep and weight gain, please?
bad sleep = higher cortisol = weight gain
In reply to goldmember:Being ripped is a great look,but ive noticed in the gym the older guys late 30s 40s always look more aged and drawn in a ripped state,i boxed for most of my life and have constantly been in good ripped condition,my diet and exercise regime are a way of life for me now,the down side is as you age you look older being ripped and ive never bothered with protein drinks that cost a fortune,i make my own in a blender from tuna eggs and milk,may make some of you reach but i love it.
In reply to blackcat:
the older guys in their 30s and 40s...' thanks a bunch! You'll get there eventually (and what about those unfortunate people in their 50s, 60s, 70s?)
I totally disagree with your statement, though, I have got some friends who are almost touching 70 and look great with a trained body...much better than a beer gut would look! Also looking ripped will make you look healthy and trained no matter what age.
the older guys in their 30s and 40s...' thanks a bunch! You'll get there eventually (and what about those unfortunate people in their 50s, 60s, 70s?)
I totally disagree with your statement, though, I have got some friends who are almost touching 70 and look great with a trained body...much better than a beer gut would look! Also looking ripped will make you look healthy and trained no matter what age.
In reply to Heike:No no no heike you got me wrong ,iv got to defend myself in my precious dinner hour,im already getting there,last year i put on 16 lbs training with a bodybuilder freind of mine and got compliments on how well i looked with the extra weight and natural good looks ha,but when i came back down to my usual weight some cheeky twts said av i been ill lol.never had a beer gut couldnt imagine it looks very flattering although have read some woman like a man with a paunch.
In reply to lost1977:
also affects testosterone levels AIUI
> bad sleep = higher cortisol = weight gain
also affects testosterone levels AIUI
In reply to Bob_the_Builder:
Depends what you want to achieve I suppose but for size you need time under tension either thru high volume of reps or slow reps.
Whatever your aim you should be aiming to be really struggling on the last rep or two of a set whether it is 3x10 for BBing, 6x3 for strength or 5x5 for both
> What does "eat nose to tail" mean?
> the trap of lifting as much as I could fairly slowly with a low number of repetitions
> Now I've moved more towards training in a way that makes much more logical sense to me - choose weights that don't feel particularly heavy on the first lift, move them fast and for a longer time. Now I sweat a lot more and generally feel like I've actually achieved something each day. Of course good form must be maintained.
Depends what you want to achieve I suppose but for size you need time under tension either thru high volume of reps or slow reps.
Whatever your aim you should be aiming to be really struggling on the last rep or two of a set whether it is 3x10 for BBing, 6x3 for strength or 5x5 for both
In reply to Bob_the_Builder:
If you track what you can lift - either as a 1RM or for a given number of reps, you will actually know what you are achieving. This is more useful and reliable than a subjective feeling of having got a sweat on. If you just want to thrash yourself (I wont judge) rower, sprints, tabata sets etc will all do fine.
> Now I've moved more towards training in a way that makes much more logical sense to me - choose weights that don't feel particularly heavy on the first lift, move them fast and for a longer time. Now I sweat a lot more and generally feel like I've actually achieved something each day. Of course good form must be maintained.
If you track what you can lift - either as a 1RM or for a given number of reps, you will actually know what you are achieving. This is more useful and reliable than a subjective feeling of having got a sweat on. If you just want to thrash yourself (I wont judge) rower, sprints, tabata sets etc will all do fine.
In reply to goldmember:
Havd had some good results from the following workouts which I would describe as 2 days body building, one day power one day strength per week
Power: warm-up/stretch/roll. OH squats 5x5 or 3x10. Box jumps (rib cage height) 6x3 or 5x5. plyo press-ups onto boxes 3x(5+5). plyo pull-ups 6x3. clean and jerks 6x3 (or power cleans then split jerks). something I cannot name: put a barbell into a hinge (or corner) rest one end on a box and push it up through from a squat position to like a shot put. four directional hops.
BB Day1: Machine press 30,25,20,15,12. side raises 25,20,15,12,10. farmers walks. BB lunges 30,25,20,15,12. leg press 25,20,15,12,10. Calf raises seated and standing 3x20. Preacher curls 12, dropset, dbldropset. Hammer curls 12, ds,dblds. Abs circuit 3 exes x3.
Strength: warmup/stretch/roll. Front squats 5x5 then a back squat ladder singles to failure and back down alternate weekly with Deadlifts 5x5 then ladder. bench press 6x3 20s pause between reps. bent over rows 6x3. OH presses 6x3. split/one leg squats 5x5
BB day2: triceps, chest, abs, 2-3 exercises similar sets reps to bb day 1
did it for a couple of months and with some yoga and climbing and swimming I felt very strong indeed and was getting ripped. Diet was high protein three proper meals, eg BF steak and eggs, L chkn pasta, D baked potato and tuna plus shakes I made an effort to minimise refined sugar
Havd had some good results from the following workouts which I would describe as 2 days body building, one day power one day strength per week
Power: warm-up/stretch/roll. OH squats 5x5 or 3x10. Box jumps (rib cage height) 6x3 or 5x5. plyo press-ups onto boxes 3x(5+5). plyo pull-ups 6x3. clean and jerks 6x3 (or power cleans then split jerks). something I cannot name: put a barbell into a hinge (or corner) rest one end on a box and push it up through from a squat position to like a shot put. four directional hops.
BB Day1: Machine press 30,25,20,15,12. side raises 25,20,15,12,10. farmers walks. BB lunges 30,25,20,15,12. leg press 25,20,15,12,10. Calf raises seated and standing 3x20. Preacher curls 12, dropset, dbldropset. Hammer curls 12, ds,dblds. Abs circuit 3 exes x3.
Strength: warmup/stretch/roll. Front squats 5x5 then a back squat ladder singles to failure and back down alternate weekly with Deadlifts 5x5 then ladder. bench press 6x3 20s pause between reps. bent over rows 6x3. OH presses 6x3. split/one leg squats 5x5
BB day2: triceps, chest, abs, 2-3 exercises similar sets reps to bb day 1
did it for a couple of months and with some yoga and climbing and swimming I felt very strong indeed and was getting ripped. Diet was high protein three proper meals, eg BF steak and eggs, L chkn pasta, D baked potato and tuna plus shakes I made an effort to minimise refined sugar
In reply to andic:
i wouldnt disagree, reason i use cortisol as a reason rather than testosterone is testosterone levels seem to be affected by more factors than cortisol
i wouldnt disagree, reason i use cortisol as a reason rather than testosterone is testosterone levels seem to be affected by more factors than cortisol
In reply to goldmember:
Bimblefasts advice is absolutely sound. Everything suggested is based on pretty solid evidence.
Bimblefasts advice is absolutely sound. Everything suggested is based on pretty solid evidence.
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