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I came back to my car last night to find a PCN neatly attached to my windscreen. I parked up and bought a ticket at about 16:00 for two hours, maximum two hour stay and parking restrictions lifted at 18:30. Fair enough, I'm in the wrong (had nowhere else to go - the joys of working in central London), but two things bug me about it:
- it was issued at 18:30 - which is when the restrictions are lifted
- the colour of the car is clearly wrong (brown, when my car is silver).
Is there any realistic chance for contesting this? The fact that it was issued at 18:30 bugs me a lot.
- it was issued at 18:30 - which is when the restrictions are lifted
- the colour of the car is clearly wrong (brown, when my car is silver).
Is there any realistic chance for contesting this? The fact that it was issued at 18:30 bugs me a lot.
In reply to tehmarks:
Firstly, whats the deal with being annoyed that it was 6.30? you overstayed and that's that. Sorry.
But, you'll be able to contest it and have a good chance of winning. I'd go for it.
Lots of info and advice on pepipoo.com
Firstly, whats the deal with being annoyed that it was 6.30? you overstayed and that's that. Sorry.
But, you'll be able to contest it and have a good chance of winning. I'd go for it.
Lots of info and advice on pepipoo.com
In reply to tehmarks:
So you're miffed at getting cought in the last minute? what if Rita had clipped you in the preceding 29 minutes? You admit you're in the wrong and yet still wish to contest it?
Anyway, lots of good (and bad) advice already given on this subject, simply type 'parking ticket'in the search box above.
So you're miffed at getting cought in the last minute? what if Rita had clipped you in the preceding 29 minutes? You admit you're in the wrong and yet still wish to contest it?
Anyway, lots of good (and bad) advice already given on this subject, simply type 'parking ticket'in the search box above.
In reply to Tony the Blade:
Sorry - meant to add the link: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/search.php?forum=0&dates=1&na...
Sorry - meant to add the link: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/search.php?forum=0&dates=1&na...
In reply to tehmarks:
My experience is you can contest it at a local level without affecting any of your normal rights (ie reduced early payment), but they can easily rule against you and then you've gotta start court proceedings. Even if you are 100% in the right (which you are not!) for the sake of £30, I wouldn't take it to court.
My experience is you can contest it at a local level without affecting any of your normal rights (ie reduced early payment), but they can easily rule against you and then you've gotta start court proceedings. Even if you are 100% in the right (which you are not!) for the sake of £30, I wouldn't take it to court.
In reply to tehmarks:
I was once sent a summons for a parking ticket violation, I had not paid the fine. Which was not surprising really as I never got the ticket, my mode of transport at the time was a 175cc CZ motorcycle based in Manchester and the summons was for a car (not known to me) illegally parked in London which I was hundreds of miles away from at the time. I wrote and explained this and never heard anymore, not even the courtesy of an apology.
I was once sent a summons for a parking ticket violation, I had not paid the fine. Which was not surprising really as I never got the ticket, my mode of transport at the time was a 175cc CZ motorcycle based in Manchester and the summons was for a car (not known to me) illegally parked in London which I was hundreds of miles away from at the time. I wrote and explained this and never heard anymore, not even the courtesy of an apology.
In reply to tehmarks:
May I ask who issued the ticket?
If it is the council or police then it is a fine. Pay it and get on with life
If it is a private carpark then contest it because it is NOT a fine but an invoice. In November I got a £100 parking fine for some Christmas shopping. After a bit of research I learnt it was an in invoice and not a fine. I appealed and eventually got it cancelled. It got Scarry as the invoice went up to £150 + the threat of going to court. I was prepared to go all the way though.
May I ask who issued the ticket?
If it is the council or police then it is a fine. Pay it and get on with life
If it is a private carpark then contest it because it is NOT a fine but an invoice. In November I got a £100 parking fine for some Christmas shopping. After a bit of research I learnt it was an in invoice and not a fine. I appealed and eventually got it cancelled. It got Scarry as the invoice went up to £150 + the threat of going to court. I was prepared to go all the way though.
In reply to tehmarks:
If ticket factually incorrect, it is invalid. Issuing authority should dismiss ticket, but if not take it all the way.
>
> - the colour of the car is clearly wrong (brown, when my car is silver).
>
If ticket factually incorrect, it is invalid. Issuing authority should dismiss ticket, but if not take it all the way.
In reply to tehmarks:
I struggle with parking charges. On the one hand, you were out of order, but on the other, parking enforcers (not the people who do their job) are vermin that add absolutely nothing constructive to society. The fines are also vastly out of proportion to the offence committed.
The law governing parking enforcement is very prescriptive, so you certainly have nothing to loose by appealing on the basis that your ticket is basically incorrect.
I struggle with parking charges. On the one hand, you were out of order, but on the other, parking enforcers (not the people who do their job) are vermin that add absolutely nothing constructive to society. The fines are also vastly out of proportion to the offence committed.
The law governing parking enforcement is very prescriptive, so you certainly have nothing to loose by appealing on the basis that your ticket is basically incorrect.
In reply to ByEek:
Could you clarify that please.
> parking enforcers (not the people who do their job) are vermin that add absolutely nothing constructive to society.
>
Could you clarify that please.
In reply to GLUF:
I have a problem with the concept of parking attendants. I am pretty sure that as individuals they are all lovely people, but the job they do adds nothing positive to society... a bit like wasps I guess.
I have a problem with the concept of parking attendants. I am pretty sure that as individuals they are all lovely people, but the job they do adds nothing positive to society... a bit like wasps I guess.
In reply to ByEek:
Are they not just a response to people selfishly and arrogantly parking where they like, with no consideration for how their actions affect other people?
I feel that councils use parking as a cash cow, milking money from fools who park illegally.
And in the case of supermarkets and private landlords, I am pretty sure that the large majority would prefer it if people who had no right or business parking on their land, did not do, then they would not have to find some means of enforcing their rights.
Are they not just a response to people selfishly and arrogantly parking where they like, with no consideration for how their actions affect other people?
I feel that councils use parking as a cash cow, milking money from fools who park illegally.
And in the case of supermarkets and private landlords, I am pretty sure that the large majority would prefer it if people who had no right or business parking on their land, did not do, then they would not have to find some means of enforcing their rights.
In reply to ByEek:
I'd suggest that they add something very positive to society. They discourage people from blocking parking spaces for protracted periods and make it easier to park when you just need to nip into the bank, post office or shops.
> I have a problem with the concept of parking attendants. I am pretty sure that as individuals they are all lovely people, but the job they do adds nothing positive to society... a bit like wasps I guess.
I'd suggest that they add something very positive to society. They discourage people from blocking parking spaces for protracted periods and make it easier to park when you just need to nip into the bank, post office or shops.
In reply to ByEek:
Sorry, I disagree. Without enforcement, people park like idiots and cause obstruction.
I would prefer the remit of enforcement to return to the Police with professional discretion, but I couldn't see any benefit in it going away.
As to enforcing payment, to me pay on exit is the way to go. You can do a non-barriered version by reading number plates on entry and paying before you drive out. That way you can't run out of time.
Neil
Sorry, I disagree. Without enforcement, people park like idiots and cause obstruction.
I would prefer the remit of enforcement to return to the Police with professional discretion, but I couldn't see any benefit in it going away.
As to enforcing payment, to me pay on exit is the way to go. You can do a non-barriered version by reading number plates on entry and paying before you drive out. That way you can't run out of time.
Neil
In reply to GLUF:
"And in the case of supermarkets and private landlords, I am pretty sure that the large majority would prefer it if people who had no right or business parking on their land, did not do, then they would not have to find some means of enforcing their rights."
Though this goes too far sometimes, e.g. a retail park near me with another one next to it and a Tesco opposite having a rule that if you are seen leaving site you will be ticketed. It's their right to do this, but it is very customer unfriendly. As it was, you'd park in the one of the three car parks where you are going first/buying the biggest item and walk to the others, and this always evened out between them.
"No return within X" is also very unfriendly, and unnecessary now you can have cameras on entry and exit. It exists to stop you driving round the block and going back for another 2 hours, but technology now allows a much more useful and friendly possibility of something like "you can park here for a total of 3 hours in any calendar day" or similar. Penalising people for returning to a shop where they've forgotten something is bloody silly.
Neil
"And in the case of supermarkets and private landlords, I am pretty sure that the large majority would prefer it if people who had no right or business parking on their land, did not do, then they would not have to find some means of enforcing their rights."
Though this goes too far sometimes, e.g. a retail park near me with another one next to it and a Tesco opposite having a rule that if you are seen leaving site you will be ticketed. It's their right to do this, but it is very customer unfriendly. As it was, you'd park in the one of the three car parks where you are going first/buying the biggest item and walk to the others, and this always evened out between them.
"No return within X" is also very unfriendly, and unnecessary now you can have cameras on entry and exit. It exists to stop you driving round the block and going back for another 2 hours, but technology now allows a much more useful and friendly possibility of something like "you can park here for a total of 3 hours in any calendar day" or similar. Penalising people for returning to a shop where they've forgotten something is bloody silly.
Neil
Post edited at 11:39
In reply to tehmarks:
I would appeal, often it costs you nothing to try because the reduced payment is still allowed after the initial appeal. It may vary between councils depending how vindictive they are.
I don't know if the timing is relevant, if you mention it you are incriminating yourself anyway. I would just rely on the incorrect ticket and Id also check out the road markings and other wording on the ticket to see if it is all compliant/en forcible. pipepoo or ticket fighter for advice
I would appeal, often it costs you nothing to try because the reduced payment is still allowed after the initial appeal. It may vary between councils depending how vindictive they are.
I don't know if the timing is relevant, if you mention it you are incriminating yourself anyway. I would just rely on the incorrect ticket and Id also check out the road markings and other wording on the ticket to see if it is all compliant/en forcible. pipepoo or ticket fighter for advice
In reply to Neil Williams:
>
That is an entirely reasonable view, until you consider for exmaple the number of threads on here where people who are quite clearly in the wrong but will argue the wrinkles on a cats bum to get off a parking ticket.
Near me is a Hospital and they charge for parking, which obviously has revenue raising reasons, but was originally brought in because people would park 3 or 4 cars there, then hop in to one so they could all park for the price of one in the town centre.
And how many climbers meet up on a supermarket car park and leave a car there all day.
>
> Though this goes too far sometimes, e.g. a retail park near me with another one next to it and a Tesco opposite having a rule that if you are seen leaving site you will be ticketed. It's their right to do this, but it is very customer unfriendly. As it was, you'd park in the one of the three car parks where you are going first/buying the biggest item and walk to the others, and this always evened out between them.
>
That is an entirely reasonable view, until you consider for exmaple the number of threads on here where people who are quite clearly in the wrong but will argue the wrinkles on a cats bum to get off a parking ticket.
Near me is a Hospital and they charge for parking, which obviously has revenue raising reasons, but was originally brought in because people would park 3 or 4 cars there, then hop in to one so they could all park for the price of one in the town centre.
And how many climbers meet up on a supermarket car park and leave a car there all day.
Post edited at 11:55
In reply to GLUF:
True. Personally if I was clearly guilty, e.g. of overstaying or parking where clearly prohibited, I would pay. Though I think I would try to get off on a technicality in the case of one of these really unreasonable ones like I noted above.
Neil
True. Personally if I was clearly guilty, e.g. of overstaying or parking where clearly prohibited, I would pay. Though I think I would try to get off on a technicality in the case of one of these really unreasonable ones like I noted above.
Neil
Post edited at 11:55
In reply to tehmarks:
Does the ticket say Parking Fine (issued by council/local authority) or Parking Charge Notice (issued by whoever).
If the first, your options are limited, other than the details being wrong on the ticket, you are going to have to pay up. This will be enforced.
If the latter, a PCN, this is an Invoice issued by a private enforcement company, in which case I would ignore it. Someone will post in reply that you must pay all PCN, but I think he works for one of the firms.
Loads of info about this on the net.
If it is a PCN, and the details are wrong, I would throw it in the bin. They will send you some threatening letters, from them, their pet solicitors and fictitious debt recovery agents, threaten you with court action etc. nothing will come of it, they give up after about 3 months. (Longer if you engage in any sort of dialogue with them)
Does the ticket say Parking Fine (issued by council/local authority) or Parking Charge Notice (issued by whoever).
If the first, your options are limited, other than the details being wrong on the ticket, you are going to have to pay up. This will be enforced.
If the latter, a PCN, this is an Invoice issued by a private enforcement company, in which case I would ignore it. Someone will post in reply that you must pay all PCN, but I think he works for one of the firms.
Loads of info about this on the net.
If it is a PCN, and the details are wrong, I would throw it in the bin. They will send you some threatening letters, from them, their pet solicitors and fictitious debt recovery agents, threaten you with court action etc. nothing will come of it, they give up after about 3 months. (Longer if you engage in any sort of dialogue with them)
Post edited at 12:00
In reply to Neil Williams:
Would you, really? If I thought I could wriggle I would, human nature.
> True. Personally if I was clearly guilty,
>
Would you, really? If I thought I could wriggle I would, human nature.
In reply to butteredfrog:
erm... 'PCN' normally means 'Penalty Charge Notice'.
That's the one the OP got. And it's the one issued by local authorities etc. It's a fine. You have to pay it or challenge.
I've no doubt that some unscrupulous private operators might have dreamed up the 'Parking Charge Notice' to create confusion, but that's not normally what's meant by 'PCN'.
erm... 'PCN' normally means 'Penalty Charge Notice'.
That's the one the OP got. And it's the one issued by local authorities etc. It's a fine. You have to pay it or challenge.
I've no doubt that some unscrupulous private operators might have dreamed up the 'Parking Charge Notice' to create confusion, but that's not normally what's meant by 'PCN'.
In reply to tehmarks:
yes you could beat that very easily probably 100% certainty, if you where able to photo the PCN so i could check the details (photo of the timeplate would help if possible)
lost1977 (former parking enforcer both council and private with about 10years experience)
yes you could beat that very easily probably 100% certainty, if you where able to photo the PCN so i could check the details (photo of the timeplate would help if possible)
lost1977 (former parking enforcer both council and private with about 10years experience)
In reply to GLUF:
I wouldn't feel guilty for avoiding a fine on a technicality even if I was in the wrong.
> Would you, really? If I thought I could wriggle I would, human nature.
I wouldn't feel guilty for avoiding a fine on a technicality even if I was in the wrong.
In reply to GLUF:
Right. And then there are those who go over by a few minutes and get walloped by a massive fine because the jobs-worth issuing the fines was hiding behind a tree waiting for the meter to tick over.
I don't have a problem with enforcement, it is the fact that benefit-of-the-doubt or special circumstances is never exercised. If all laws were enforced as scrupulously as parking, the country would grind to a halt.
I would rather see the same effort of enforcement going towards stopping people littering the streets of allowing their dogs to fowl the pavements than parking enforcement. Parking enforcement is not about applying the law. It is about revenue generation, and that is what I despise.
> Are they not just a response to people selfishly and arrogantly parking where they like,
Right. And then there are those who go over by a few minutes and get walloped by a massive fine because the jobs-worth issuing the fines was hiding behind a tree waiting for the meter to tick over.
I don't have a problem with enforcement, it is the fact that benefit-of-the-doubt or special circumstances is never exercised. If all laws were enforced as scrupulously as parking, the country would grind to a halt.
I would rather see the same effort of enforcement going towards stopping people littering the streets of allowing their dogs to fowl the pavements than parking enforcement. Parking enforcement is not about applying the law. It is about revenue generation, and that is what I despise.
In reply to ByEek:
It's about both. It should just be about enforcing the law (and covering the cost of doing so, as why should the honest pay for enforcement against the dishonest?)
Neil
It's about both. It should just be about enforcing the law (and covering the cost of doing so, as why should the honest pay for enforcement against the dishonest?)
Neil
In reply to ByEek:
Well said Sir!
The bastards even ticket my wife's car, clearly displaying a Disabled badge, sometimes.
Well said Sir!
The bastards even ticket my wife's car, clearly displaying a Disabled badge, sometimes.
In reply to Lusk:
That's just sloppiness on their part. Would love to see something to get back in those kinds of cases, e.g. if you are issued a ticket when one very clearly was not due they have to pay you compensation for your time in appealing.
Neil
That's just sloppiness on their part. Would love to see something to get back in those kinds of cases, e.g. if you are issued a ticket when one very clearly was not due they have to pay you compensation for your time in appealing.
Neil
In reply to ByEek:
you realise that to enforce littering or dog crap would require a jobs worth hiding behind a tree to gather evidence
you realise that to enforce littering or dog crap would require a jobs worth hiding behind a tree to gather evidence
In reply to Neil Williams:
most common reason for a disabled badge holder to be given a pcn is due to them being incorrectly displayed with the photo side up so the details of the badge cant be seen, so you know the level of abuse of the blue badge system because if you did you would realise that without enforcement you would never get a disabled space to use
most common reason for a disabled badge holder to be given a pcn is due to them being incorrectly displayed with the photo side up so the details of the badge cant be seen, so you know the level of abuse of the blue badge system because if you did you would realise that without enforcement you would never get a disabled space to use
In reply to hamsforlegs:
My mistake sorry!
Looks like the OP will have to "cough up" then, unless he is lucky.
My mistake sorry!
Looks like the OP will have to "cough up" then, unless he is lucky.
In reply to lost1977:
Absolutely. But the result would be clean streets that are nice to be in. It doesn't bother me in the least if someone goes over by 10 minutes at the parking meter.
> you realise that to enforce littering or dog crap would require a jobs worth hiding behind a tree to gather evidence
Absolutely. But the result would be clean streets that are nice to be in. It doesn't bother me in the least if someone goes over by 10 minutes at the parking meter.
In reply to tehmarks:
Will post some photos later. Yes, I know I'm clearly in the wrong, but I'm miffed because:
- I couldn't pay by phone, text or app because the third party who run that service incorrectly believe that the parking is for coaches only, which it clearly isn't and this isn't mentioned on any signage. I had to waste a good few minutes running to get enough change to feed the meter (at 40p/6 minutes), which obviously delayed my eventual return somewhat.
- My car clearly isn't brown, I get the feeling he was rushing to issue it before 18:31.
- There are no alternatives in the area, and there's no alternative but to drive for me.
To the negativity, I'm not a generic inconsiderate ass. I weighed up the possibility of upsetting someone wanting to nip into the bank on a completely empty street with no buildings of interest for the general public save for a theatre, which didn't have anything playing as I was inside it working on a fit-up, as being virtually zero. People who abandon their cars without thought annoy me greatly too.
Will post some photos later. Yes, I know I'm clearly in the wrong, but I'm miffed because:
- I couldn't pay by phone, text or app because the third party who run that service incorrectly believe that the parking is for coaches only, which it clearly isn't and this isn't mentioned on any signage. I had to waste a good few minutes running to get enough change to feed the meter (at 40p/6 minutes), which obviously delayed my eventual return somewhat.
- My car clearly isn't brown, I get the feeling he was rushing to issue it before 18:31.
- There are no alternatives in the area, and there's no alternative but to drive for me.
To the negativity, I'm not a generic inconsiderate ass. I weighed up the possibility of upsetting someone wanting to nip into the bank on a completely empty street with no buildings of interest for the general public save for a theatre, which didn't have anything playing as I was inside it working on a fit-up, as being virtually zero. People who abandon their cars without thought annoy me greatly too.
In reply to Neil Williams:
Agreed, but with total parking fines adding up to the best part of half a billion pounds (??!!!!!) in the year to 2012, I think it safe to say that costs were more than adequately covered.
> It's about both. It should just be about enforcing the law (and covering the cost of doing so, as why should the honest pay for enforcement against the dishonest?)
Agreed, but with total parking fines adding up to the best part of half a billion pounds (??!!!!!) in the year to 2012, I think it safe to say that costs were more than adequately covered.
In reply to ByEek:
i think most people when they reasise the level of intrusion that comes with litter and dog crap enforcement would be bothered
i think most people when they reasise the level of intrusion that comes with litter and dog crap enforcement would be bothered
In reply to ByEek:
No, but it does bother me when someone parks all day in a 2 hour bay, as that means I can't go to the shop (or whatever). A bit of unpublished discretion wouldn't hurt though.
Neil
No, but it does bother me when someone parks all day in a 2 hour bay, as that means I can't go to the shop (or whatever). A bit of unpublished discretion wouldn't hurt though.
Neil
In reply to butteredfrog:
As folk have already pointed out - a PCN (Penalty Charge Notice) is the one you *dont* want to ignore. The private companies aren't allowed to use "PCN" or "Penalty Charge Notice" which is why they've come up with "Parking Charge Notice" to try to make their tickets look like a proper PCN.
Just because you shouldn't ignore a PCN is no reason not to contest it though. If the initial appeal is turned down the 14 days (or whatever) to pay a reduced rate starts again from then. (After which you need to either pay up or take it all the way to court.)
> If the latter, a PCN, this is an Invoice issued by a private enforcement company, in which case I would ignore it.
As folk have already pointed out - a PCN (Penalty Charge Notice) is the one you *dont* want to ignore. The private companies aren't allowed to use "PCN" or "Penalty Charge Notice" which is why they've come up with "Parking Charge Notice" to try to make their tickets look like a proper PCN.
Just because you shouldn't ignore a PCN is no reason not to contest it though. If the initial appeal is turned down the 14 days (or whatever) to pay a reduced rate starts again from then. (After which you need to either pay up or take it all the way to court.)
In reply to ByEek:
I live in a borough that has towns in it were all the Council parking is pay and display and towns were all the Council is free. In the towns were it is free, you generally can't park between 8am and 5.30pm, because someone hogs the parking space all day. In the towns were you have to pay, you can always find a parking space. The answer in the towns where parking is free is to make some of the parking time limited, so that spaces are freed up and people are able to park to go to the shops or doctors or whatever. All parking controls, whether through payment, time limits of both require management, i.e. parking attendants.
> I have a problem with the concept of parking attendants. I am pretty sure that as individuals they are all lovely people, but the job they do adds nothing positive to society... a bit like wasps I guess.
I live in a borough that has towns in it were all the Council parking is pay and display and towns were all the Council is free. In the towns were it is free, you generally can't park between 8am and 5.30pm, because someone hogs the parking space all day. In the towns were you have to pay, you can always find a parking space. The answer in the towns where parking is free is to make some of the parking time limited, so that spaces are freed up and people are able to park to go to the shops or doctors or whatever. All parking controls, whether through payment, time limits of both require management, i.e. parking attendants.
In reply to ByEek:
Where parking enforcement has been de-criminalised and outsourced, there's enough to cover some pretty decent profits for the companies that have taken the job on too.
> Agreed, but with total parking fines adding up to the best part of half a billion pounds (??!!!!!) in the year to 2012, I think it safe to say that costs were more than adequately covered.
Where parking enforcement has been de-criminalised and outsourced, there's enough to cover some pretty decent profits for the companies that have taken the job on too.
In reply to The New NickB:
I don't disagree with your line of argument at all. The problem is that the public statement about parking is as you outlined. However, the reality is that enforcement is there to generate revenue and the whole system constructed, not to make fair parking so that all can benefit, but to top up the town hall coffers.
It is a bit like the Japanese Whaling fleet. Publicly, they are conducting crucial research. In reality they are only after the whale meat whilst publishing no research papers.
> both require management, i.e. parking attendants.
I don't disagree with your line of argument at all. The problem is that the public statement about parking is as you outlined. However, the reality is that enforcement is there to generate revenue and the whole system constructed, not to make fair parking so that all can benefit, but to top up the town hall coffers.
It is a bit like the Japanese Whaling fleet. Publicly, they are conducting crucial research. In reality they are only after the whale meat whilst publishing no research papers.
In reply to ByEek:
Any evidence to back this up. We are disposing of a lot of car parks, because they cost us money.
Any evidence to back this up. We are disposing of a lot of car parks, because they cost us money.
In reply to ByEek:
I think it's theoretically illegal for enforcement to be driven by revenue, but no doubt it happens. I don't really begrudge the town hall coppers a few quid, if it's going to help keep a library open, some old dear's meals on wheels coming or a smug fat councillor's outrageously extravagant expenses covered. (Ok, maybe not that last one.)
However, I find parking enforcement is much more zealous where it's been de-criminalised and the enforcement outsourced to companies deriving their own profits from the operation. How much profit, and how it relates to how many tickets they churn out is the subject of much secrecy (and immune to a freedom of information request as they cite "commercial confidentiality") - but one thing they do have to admit is that they measure "productivity" by the number of tickets they're able to issue.
So the more successful they are from a 'social' point of view in deterring anti-social parking, the more zealous they have to be to keep the quota up.
> However, the reality is that enforcement is there to generate revenue and the whole system constructed, not to make fair parking so that all can benefit, but to top up the town hall coffers.
I think it's theoretically illegal for enforcement to be driven by revenue, but no doubt it happens. I don't really begrudge the town hall coppers a few quid, if it's going to help keep a library open, some old dear's meals on wheels coming or a smug fat councillor's outrageously extravagant expenses covered. (Ok, maybe not that last one.)
However, I find parking enforcement is much more zealous where it's been de-criminalised and the enforcement outsourced to companies deriving their own profits from the operation. How much profit, and how it relates to how many tickets they churn out is the subject of much secrecy (and immune to a freedom of information request as they cite "commercial confidentiality") - but one thing they do have to admit is that they measure "productivity" by the number of tickets they're able to issue.
So the more successful they are from a 'social' point of view in deterring anti-social parking, the more zealous they have to be to keep the quota up.
In reply to The New NickB:
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2259588/How-did-Council-mak...
I appreciate that it is a bit out of date but I doubt much has changed in the last couple of years.
> Any evidence to back this up. We are disposing of a lot of car parks, because they cost us money.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2259588/How-did-Council-mak...
I appreciate that it is a bit out of date but I doubt much has changed in the last couple of years.
In reply to deepsoup:
Sorry but I think you are being a bit naive. Here are the latest figures from last year:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25489765
Over £500 million raised in England through parking charges and fines.
Sorry but I think you are being a bit naive. Here are the latest figures from last year:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25489765
Over £500 million raised in England through parking charges and fines.
Post edited at 15:20
In reply to ByEek:
>
I think your being a bit naive. The councils want money, and fining idiots is an easy way to get it. Is it right or wrong, depends on your views, IMO they can shut the art galleries and libraries and bullet tourist information, but I`m a right wing bastard, but if you want these things, unless you can think of somewhere else to get some money that is politically expedient, the parking wallahs stay.
> Sorry but I think you are being a bit naive. Here are the latest figures from last year:
>
I think your being a bit naive. The councils want money, and fining idiots is an easy way to get it. Is it right or wrong, depends on your views, IMO they can shut the art galleries and libraries and bullet tourist information, but I`m a right wing bastard, but if you want these things, unless you can think of somewhere else to get some money that is politically expedient, the parking wallahs stay.
Post edited at 15:24
In reply to GLUF:
And while it's all a bit Ryanair (no, other than expensive coffee they have never caught me out either), it is an entirely avoidable tax. You just ensure you don't park where you're not allowed, not overstay and pay for the correct period. And read the signs in case there's a catch-out.
I've never had a parking ticket...well, that's a lie, I was sent one in error that had nothing to do with me as my car had never been to the location quoted which was miles away. I wrote telling them to get lost, and they did.
Neil
And while it's all a bit Ryanair (no, other than expensive coffee they have never caught me out either), it is an entirely avoidable tax. You just ensure you don't park where you're not allowed, not overstay and pay for the correct period. And read the signs in case there's a catch-out.
I've never had a parking ticket...well, that's a lie, I was sent one in error that had nothing to do with me as my car had never been to the location quoted which was miles away. I wrote telling them to get lost, and they did.
Neil
Post edited at 15:30
In reply to GLUF:
Perhaps. But then perhaps we should all have trackers in our cars to ensure we don't speed, CCTV cameras in our bins to ensure we don't put the wrong things in them and someone from the council following each and everyone of us from being idiots and falling foul of the law?
Where do you draw the line?
I didn't realise until a few minutes ago that councils are not supposed to profit from parking fines. You seem quite happy to see those who flout parking regulations being fined. Why are you similarly not incensed by councils breaking the rules they have to adhere to? Double standards?
Perhaps. But then perhaps we should all have trackers in our cars to ensure we don't speed, CCTV cameras in our bins to ensure we don't put the wrong things in them and someone from the council following each and everyone of us from being idiots and falling foul of the law?
Where do you draw the line?
I didn't realise until a few minutes ago that councils are not supposed to profit from parking fines. You seem quite happy to see those who flout parking regulations being fined. Why are you similarly not incensed by councils breaking the rules they have to adhere to? Double standards?
In reply to tehmarks: This may have already been posted, but register on pepipoo.co.uk and tellk them the story, and they will give you good and accurate advice.
In reply to tehmarks:
If you want to see the consequences of traffic wardens not doing their job, try driving through an ethnically mixed area like Cheetham Hill in Manchester during shop opening hours. There you will see the public highway blocked by muppets double-parked and parked on double yellows, hazards flashing to give them permission, blocking the traffic and hindering buses while Manchester's traffic wardens do sweet fanny all about it for fear of being called racists.
If I had my way I would buy a big forklift truck like they use at Karachi airport. Any vehicle found illegally parked would simply be lifted into the air and carted off to a pound.
If you want to see the consequences of traffic wardens not doing their job, try driving through an ethnically mixed area like Cheetham Hill in Manchester during shop opening hours. There you will see the public highway blocked by muppets double-parked and parked on double yellows, hazards flashing to give them permission, blocking the traffic and hindering buses while Manchester's traffic wardens do sweet fanny all about it for fear of being called racists.
If I had my way I would buy a big forklift truck like they use at Karachi airport. Any vehicle found illegally parked would simply be lifted into the air and carted off to a pound.
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