UKC

Good afternoon,

I have a few questions regarding to tick prevention when wild bivvying and camping in Wales, Scotland and England. I am a bike packer so it will be a case of just getting some shut eye for few hours.

I have searched the forums and found it quit surprising to the amount of ticks. Is it something that you just live with knowing the fact that contracting lymes disease is remote, or is there certain tactics that you take while camping to reduce the risk.

Any advice and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Mauro

In reply to mauronappolini:

Showering and not having exposed skin is the only real protection. If you do get it though it's easily treatable and shouldn't cause problems unless it is left untreated.

In reply to mauronappolini:

It's Lyme disease (no S)

Bivvi on clear ground. Avoid areas with sheep. Don't sleep on bracken, it's soft but a tic refuge. Carry a tic removal tool.

In reply to mauronappolini:

Its really nasty if you get it so take care. If you are going to be walking through bracken or wild camping its best to buy a tick removal tool from the local shops and learn how to use it and inspect carefully with a mirror as they can be quite small. Highest risk is around May time when the weather is normally at its best.

Thanks for the advice, good tip about the bracken! I will be riding on the road so should be good whilst on the bike.

Unfortunately showering at the end of the day is not an option as I normally go for a few hundred miles in a couple of days so my time is split between riding, eating and sleeping.

All advice is welcomed as I want to be fully prepared with knowledge and tools before i set off.

Thanks for any advice and tips in advance.

Mauro

I hate the blighters!

Risk is greatest in both Spring and Autumn.

Lowland and coastal areas with scrub, braken and long grass 'rank vegitation' are worst, particularly those with resident populations of deer, goats, rats ect (therefore most of Scotland, which at times are plagued by them (i.e. you will pick up dozens if you are unlucky or the wrong spot, e.g. where deer and goats have slept, or tracks they walk where vegitation can brush ticks off, and then on to you).

If you can camp on short grass, or moss at high (munro) elevations its rare to pick them up. If you are bivvying you can do alot to minimise the risk by sleeping on rock slabs, sand, gravel, beaches ect.

Helps to have light coloured clothing, matt and bivvy/sleeping bags so you a see the little feckers, do regular tick checks, getting others to check the areas you cannae check yourself. As mentioned carry tweezers or a tick-removal tool. Think about trying avoiding carrying them into your tent / bivvy, so consider putting socks and trousers from your days activity in an air-tight polybag and tying it up. Be carefull where you put bags down during the day.

Remember that you may inadvertantly cary them home with you either on your body or kit, so don't leaving your hill clothes in the corner of the room stick them striaght in the washing machine, shake/air your bivvy kit outside and keep checking your body for hitch-hikers.

Sheep can be a mixed-blessing; In lowland settings I find I pick-up less in areas of well grazed very short grass cropped by sheep. Less place for the ticks to hide, and if 'dipped' the sheep may not be hosting them. Unfortunately 'dipping' in remote areas is becoming rare............ I would avoid long tussocky grass of hill-grazings.

In reply to mauronappolini:
Good advice from the other posters, I get bitten reasonably frequently throughout the summer whatever I do and I think if you live/work in the country then short of going round with your clothes tucked in and being drenched in deet there's not much you can do. The best thing imo is just to be vigilant of the early symptoms, I always note in my diary when I've been bitten so if I'm unwell at all in Summer/Autumn I can go to the doctor and get antibiotics if it fits the time frame. The bull's eye rash isn't always present and the test for lyme isn't always accurate so be aware of any flu like symptoms after being bitten.

Having said that I've been bitten to high heaven and never had trouble but it's not worth being complacent about, in it's later stages it's a horrible illness that can be with you for life. My Mum had it when she was younger and was treated in enough time that the symptoms subsided eventually but not everyone's that lucky and I know of one person whose life's been torn up by the psychological and physical symptoms of it.

You can get special tic tweezers if you want but they're overkill imo, careful use of tweezers is ideal but I have to admit I'll usually just use my nails or my teeth if I'm out and about. The quicker it's out the better and it's quite hard to get the head stuck really.

In reply to mauronappolini:

Don't get overly anxious about Lyme - not every part of the country is affected and so the chances of contracting it are fairly low. As others have said, take a few simple precautions and remove any that do get on you. It's worth laying out your groundsheet on any potential camping spot and then checking it for ticks after a short spell - if you find a lot, pick another spot? Some places in the Arnside area are prone to ticks (a lot of deer and rough, vegetated terrain). I sometimes get the odd one or two during the peak season but have never caught Lyme disease. The West Highlands are worse (a backpack through Knoydart one Easter comes to mind!) but despite some places being infested with ticks we've never had a serious issue with them. Here is one (of many) information sources about Lyme http://www.royalparks.org.uk/__documents/richmond-park/tick-leaflet-final-a... Enjoy your camping trip!

In reply to mauronappolini:

When running on Jura, an Island famed for its ticks (too many deer) we found that if all exposed skin was covered in a product called Deep Heat you could get back from a run totally uninfested.
I have said this before on here, the easiest way to get a tick to drop off and die is to put just one drop of Bob Martins for dogs flea shampoo neat on the tick and it is off in seconds, none of this pissing about with tweezers and leaving their head in the wound or burning off with a matchhead, no pain involved.

In reply to mauronappolini:

My understanding is the risk of Lyme disease is much greater if the ticks aren't removed fairly promptly (ie you don't find them for a day or two); certainly I've never had a problem having done that, and the only people I know who have had problems had a huge number of ticks, and didn't find them all reasonably quickly.

In reply to mauronappolini:
Not sure if you found this UKC Article
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=398

When I have had them it has been on the waist and ankle areas due to loose clothing in those areas, possibly sitting down for a rest and tee shirt riding up at back or ticks on the bag getting onto skin at the waist.

In reply to Al Evans:

I thought soap treatments can make the risk higher as they can regurgitae their stomach contents into your blood. I thought modern recommendations were very clearly to learn how to remove them properly and do this.

NHS advice is: "Do not use a lit cigarette end, a match head or volatile oils to force the tick out. Some veterinary surgeries and pet shops sell inexpensive tick removal devices which may be useful if you frequently spend time in areas where there are ticks."


Anyway a few more links:

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Lyme-disease/Pages/Introduction.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease

https://www.nathnac.org/pro/factsheets/lyme.htm

In reply to mauronappolini:

spray all your gear with permethrin and carry a spray bottle to reapply it if need be

In reply to mauronappolini:
Stay at home close the curtains and whatever you do don't go outside. The world is a dangerous place. Seriously. Just go out and enjoy yourself. Odds are you will return home with just aching muscles and good memories.

In reply to mauronappolini:
If you get bitten by a tick, get it checked. Otherwise don't worry.

I have seen someone bitten by a tick precisely once, it was a Scout who picked it up on camp, we took him to A&E and they gave him antibiotics to be sure. I suspect I might never see one again.

Neil

In reply to Neil Williams:



I agree with the advice in this thread about not becoming paranoid, but if you are active in the Scottish hills in Spring/Summer/Autumn then you are *certain* to pick up ticks: I've lost count of the number of ticks I've removed from me.

In reply to Rob Parsons:

+1
Being aware is good, but no need to be paranoid about it. I wouldn't at all recommend that everyone bitten by a tick heads to A&E to demand antibiotics as for 90% of the time they aren't needed and (perhaps different for kids as folk tend to be very cautious) mostly they won't give them to you without other symptoms. Even with the symptoms it can be difficult to get treatment!

I've spent a few summers working on highland estates, and most of the Gillies / stalkers don't worry too much about getting ticks, but always kept an eye open for symptoms.

Pretty much everyone I know that's been out walking or climbing for any length of time has had ticks at some point. The advice generally given is look out for bullseye marks around the bite site, or cold/flu symptoms in the days after being bitten. If you have either - go see a doctor, if possible take some info and treatment advice for Lyme Disease with you as a lot of GPs/Docs don't really know anything about it. Some have even been known to claim it doesn't exist in the UK......
Caught early it's generally treatable and short lived. Left late it can be fatal or at least completely debilitating.

A fair bit of debate over the years as to whether you are best to try and delicately remove (giving them time to regurgitate and possibly an increased infection risk) or just pull them out so they have no time to regurgitate and use a pin or similar remove the head to avoid any infection risk (or just leave it - generally they either work their own way out, or the body just breaks them down like any other piece of foreign matter).

Try and get some info on tick hot spots for Lyme Disease too and plan accordingly (might be worth and extra 30 mins walking / pedaling to avoid).

As for avoiding them - it's actually hard in an infected area. They cling to clothing, burrow through wooly socks and fleeces without membranes. I've even had them when I've spent the whole day in water proofs somehow. Limiting exposed skin, and open clothing, avoiding bracken and grassy/tussocky areas where there are deer / livestock helps. As tempting as old shielings / pony huts can be as camp / bivi sites, they are also commonly used by livestock for shelter too so can be localised hot spots. Repellants work to a degree and may stop them climbing onboard, but they are very persistent sometimes. I've had jungle formula on before and watched one craw around looking for somewhere undercoated to bite

They do travel around you as well - so always check areas even if not exposed. Around waist straps seem to be a favorite with me.....

Cheers,

Stuart

In reply to Rob Parsons:

Agree with this - they're far more common if you spend time in rural areas than Neil's post suggests.

One thing I'd add is that sometimes it's easier to get someone else to get it out (if someone else is around!) - they always seem to bite in inconvenient-to-reach places...

In reply to StuDoig:

All good advice, but also be aware that the rash isn't always a bullseye. I got a bite with an unpatterned swelling, didn't think it was Lyme so didn't get it checked out until several months later when i started to get other problems. Eventually tested positive for Lyme via a microscope test and had treatment, but ended up with long term problems, still existing 6 years on. If you have swelling of any ahape around a tick bite it's worth getting checked out.
Iain

In reply to Neil Williams: I know of 5 people in my circle of friends who have Lymes, all active outdoor people. Shrugging this off is not relevant in Scotland, I would say its nearly at epidemic levels. Lack of Bracken control, massive deer population, and the stopping of sheep dipping are all factors IMO

In reply to Erik B:

Erik is right; take it seriously. I'd say I've averaged 100 bites a year over the last 10 years and not caught anything yet. Getting them out quickly is the best prevention.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

100 bites *a year*? Crikey, Scotland really is affected much more than England.

Neil

In reply to Neil Williams:

It's not that unusual to have four or five tick bites a year here in the Yorkshire Dales and the Lake District - yes, not a hundred, but more than 'once in a blue moon'.

In reply to mauronappolini:

Here's a short safety youtube video from the "Mountaineering Council of Scotland" on ticks http://www.mcofs.org.uk/hillwalking-essentials-video.asp