UKC

I'm considering taking the plunge and trying out Buffalo garments for the remainder of this winter. Special 6 or Mountain Shirt seems the obvious starting point, but what puzzles me is this... Considering I wear either of the above next to the skin and vent as appropriate, does this mean I'm carrying no other item of clothing at all (except perhaps overtroos, gloves, hat, etc)?
It would therefore involve a smaller (emptier?) sack containing just food, drink and essentials wouldn't it?

...or do people carry other clothing, just in case?

Cheers.

In replo Glyno:
I use a 20 yr old special six. If worn as it's intended, and the weather is very bad, you can get cold on prolonged stops. I normally pack a shell jacket if wet and windy, or a belay jacket if cold. The hood for the special 6 is large but not very secure around the face( they may be better now) so I like the security of an extra jacket with a good hood.
All said and done, they are great, and if you keep moving then you shouldn't need too much more. My mate used to have a full system of jacket salopetts and sleeping bag. Even if soaked, he was always dry by the morning.

In reply to Glyno:

if you knew it was going to be hosing down, I'd carry an additional waterproof perhaps, else I'd carry no other body clothing - just gloves/hat as you say. Used this method for >20 years and never been let down - the kit is bombproof. Like the previous post, I've got Buffalo kit 20 years old and still gets regular use.
(interestingly, the chap who designed the Buffalo shirt, also designed Vango F10 tent...if you wanted to design two bits of outdoor kit these two would be it - what a legacy !)

In reply to Glyno:

.......its almost spring?

I found the tops to warm for walking in and used them instead of a belay jacket. Always carried hard shell in winter. My mate uses one and gets on fine with it. Sold mine in the end.

In reply to Glyno:

Find them often too hot when moving in most weather conditions we see in the lakes, and when carrying nothing else does sometimes leave you with less versatility.

In reply to Mountain Llama:

Same here


You either love or hate pile/pertex clothing.

I use a full zip one over a thermal for winter, and layer over that.
Otherwise always too hot or cold.

In reply to Glyno:

good info and advise as usual, thanks all.

In reply to Glyno:

I run quite hot and sweat a fair bit. Although the super six is warmer than my goretex shell I still find it more comfortable - I think it's the air trapped against the skin by the pile. So although I sweat as much or more in it, I am drier. Also it still keeps you warm when wet, unlike a soggy baselayer under a shell.

In reply to Glyno:
I have been using a Buffalo "Big Face" for years. It's great in the right conditions.

The right conditions for me are sub zero temperatures, usually worn with a air of montane salopettes and a powerstretch balaclava. If I am standing still I will throw on a belay jacket over the top.

When it is below freezing then defying instructions and wearing a base layer can be helpful, as it takes the edge off the icy blast on exposed skin when using the vents.

You want to lose the base layer if it is above freezing though, as the pile does wick better without it.

They do work when it is raining heavily, but they weigh a ton when waterlogged. I prefer a more traditional shell based system for those conditions.

IMHO Buffalo hoods are rubbish. Just get a good windproof balaclava instead.

On the buffalo vs montane front there isn't a lot in it when it comes to quality, but it is worth trying both to get the best fit.

In reply to Glyno:
First came across Buffalo gear over 20 years ago when (knowing nothing about it) I borrowed a special six shirt from a friend and then did something that involved me being dunked in freezing cold water for 5 minutes sometime in the winter.

I got out thinking right, I need to sort something out quickly before I freeze to death, and in the few minutes of running around I sudddenly noticed that I wasn't even cold, and more to the point didn't even seem wet!

Anyway, years after that when I started doing Scottish winters and knew a bit more about it I loved the simplicity and toughness of one outfit of the stuff so bought the whole lot - shirt/hood, salopettes, belay jacket/hood. TBH, I only wore the salopettes once, they were just far too hot in almost any weather for Scotland. I used the shirt and hood for years, but always carried a light waterproof and belay jacket as well as the Buffalo belay jacket was heavy and bulky, and couldn't quite get my head round not having a little bit of spare clothing - although I rarely ever used them, even in driving rain or freezing conditions as I did find that the shirt deals with it very well if you keep moving.

I love the shirt, it's brilliant, but I have to admit I don't use it so much now, and think you can get better choices and materials (I use base layer/mid-synthetic layer/outer softshell and carry a light waterproof and belay jacket nowadays) in terms of materials, comfort, and fit - although that does come at a much higher cost.

If you're set on it I'd say buy a shirt and hood first and see what you think by slotting in into your clothing system as a replacement for a base layer and mid/outer and see what you think. If you feel the need to wear a base layer with it I reckon the Brynje mesh ones would work well.

In terms of pile/pertex gear both Montane and Buffalo have good and bad things about them in terms of style/fit/materials but both work fine, so I'd try both on and see which one you get on with best. FWIW I found the Buffalo fit much better on me, and a bit less faffy design wise - although please don't pair it with a pair of Ronhills like I used to...

In reply to Glyno:

I just sold my old Special 6, (ca. 20 years old), in pretty much perfect condition, flawless Pertex outer with some age-related flattening of the pile inner. Their stuff lasts, is relatively cheap and is built by hand, in Sheffield!

Personally, if it's cold and really wet, I reach for the Buffalo as opposed to a layering system, I just feel it deals with me and the conditions better. But as mentioned earlier, the hood can be an annoyance, but the Montane Extreme hood fits well and has better adjustability and comfort.

Aside from the spare gloves and a balaclava, I usually carry a base layer or thin mid layer for the pub after a day out, but this isn't necessary and only if it's >5C. And if it's ca. -10C or below, I'll carry the Buffalo Parka also, just in case I spend any serious time stationary, (never yet had to use it). The Buffalo concept works best when you're active, using your body heat to drive off moisture and keep you warm.

I recently bought a brand new one, but there's some pics and a brief write-up of my old one at the following link:

http://ruinapartum.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/gear-review-buffalo-systems-spe...

In reply to SidharthaDongre:

Brilliant stuff, excellent blog too! Thanks very much.

Some great, extremely helpful posts here.

In reply to Glyno:

Thanks! Happy to help!

In reply to Glyno:

I've found the big face shirt (crotch strap stops it riding up) and teclite salopettes an idela combination for winter in scotland. I am either OK without a belay jacket or share one between two with my partner. Good kit.

R

In reply to Glyno:

I use the full zip HA Salopettes and a Mountain Shirt for scottish winter climbing. If it is a long, steep, hard walk in, I'll use a merino baselayer and a windproof top and change into the Mountain shirt at the base of the climb. If it is bad weather or a shorter walk in I'll wear it all from the car and just vent right down the sides!

The salopettes are like wearing a hug around the middle. I find them a little short of leg but when paired with some gaiters they are fine.

As far as keeping you warm and dry in all manner of foul weather it is the bees knees. I've stopped taking my belay jacket unless the weather forecast says COLD.

The expedition hood is a bit small for me when wearing a helmet and tends to flap around a bit but I'm not a big hood fan and prefer to use it as a neck warmer and make the rest up with buffs / hat.

The fact you can wear it day after day after day without having to fight for space in the drying room is invaluable on longer trips.

I'm not going back to hard shells in a hurry, I'm a convert!

In reply to Glyno:

I use the whole system salopettes mt shirt and a montane pertex pile belay jacket. Bomb proof. It can be too warm so on the walk in I use a very lightweight softshell and change into the mtn shirt before the route. I rarely if ever carry a waterproof. The systems great in Scottish gnarly conditions but if its a warmer day e.g. In the Lakes I switch to more conventional systems.

In reply to Glyno:

I love pile pertex but I still bring a hard shell when the weather is really pants...

E

In reply to Glyno:

I've been using Buffalo for over 20 years now. I've used it all over the UK and found that it is perfect in almost every condition that is thrown at it. I have various Shirts and Jackets for all weather, but I NEVER USE A WATERPROOF Jacket as I found you actually get colder as the moisture cannot evaporate.

For milder walk-ins, use one of the Teclite or ActiveLite Shirts as a base layer, and when it gets cold enough just pop the Special 6 Shirt straight over the top. Works a treat, serioulsy. I also have a Windshirt that I pop over the top if the rain really starts to come down and I am not moving that fast, but most of the time, general hillwalking, just the Shirt on it's own is fine, and then one of the Jackets when I stop for lunch.

Once you get used to wearing the system and you know the weather forecast, you can just go out with a very small day pack and no extra clothing, but that's something you need to work up to once you and the system know each other well enough.

Love my Buffalo kit.

M.

In reply to Glyno:

Get a Teclite shirt that's my choice. Wear this with a merino base layer for the walk in (only if cold though, I've worn just a teclite on very damp November lakes days without incident). Have a belay jacket as back up for the stance.
Alternative scrap the base layer, wear a Buff 6 or Montane equivalant (better fit for me)and belay jacket as back up. Defo buy buff mitts!!! Oh and the Montane hood like the Buff hood is shite in a shit storm with a helmet, they should have studded or zipped it, velco was a real design fault!

and if you do have to wash it, rinse it through a river/burn take to a warm open fire pub hang on the back of a chair and bingo it drys for tomorrows shenanigans.

In reply to Glyno:

In my experience adding a hard shell wasn't particularly helpful due to the failure of evaporation from the pertex outer. I did (when really grim outside) carry an old patagonia activent windproof jacket which was basically another layer of pertex. This seemed to dissipate the worst of the precipitation without affecting breathability - and only weighed a couple of hundred grammes to the pack.

For winter walk ins with a big pack sometimes I would just wear a polypro t shirt and replace it with the pile/pertex at the bottom of the route if the weather was good.

For legs I used schoeller plus/minus powerstretch underneath most of the time in winter. Otherwise it was Ron's - eek!

I found the Montane stuff fitted me better and had some nice features like the thinner fleece around the cuffs.

hth

b