UKC

Has anyone done this in last couple of days
. Silly question anyone descended broad gully as well after complete ing dorsel

In reply to stuart58:
>"anyone descended broad gully"

Perhaps take a newbie from “lifts & partners” as a third and as part of his training let him lead the descent.

All we need is one expendable volunteer to make it safe for the others.

In reply to stuart58:

Be prepared to choose an alternative descent route.

http://www.sais.gov.uk/page_glencoe.asp

In reply to stuart58:

In current heavy and unstable snow conditions, why would you? It's not a long way to walk around.

In reply to stuart58:

As already said - best avoiding those kinds of route in current conditions. The walk off doesn't take long, and given how short Dorsal Arete is, you could even extend the day by walking over to Bidean.

In reply to DalesClimber:


....and engaging with a variety of other avalanche-prone descents!

In reply to stuart58:

Avalanche poodles descended it on saturday. We walked round. I think I'd put some money on it avalanching today, tomorrow or friday based on the mega thaw and rain that is due to arrive.

Andy

In reply to Jamie B:

Not necessarily - I was thinking of just walking there and Back As a nice extension to the day, but should probably have made that clearer!

The descent into lost valley is likely to be similarly bad!

In reply to DalesClimber:


There was extensive avalanche debris below it last Saturday. The descents from the connecting ridge, between main and west tops and via an t'Sron are potentially equally dodgy.

Bidean is a really serious peak for winter walkers, in my opinion. This was evidenced last year.

In reply to Jamie B:

Very true - I should have been clearer in what I put. I would view the there and back (to SCNL) walk as being straightforward for the OP though, given his logbook.

Doing only DA seems like a very short day to me (although given current weather, maybe that's for the best!).

In reply to Jamie B:

>"It's not a long way to walk around."

I assume you mean walk towards Aonach Dubh then back down into the Coire nan Lochan. Are there currently reletively safe aspects going that way? I've never done it but I always imagined that in poor conditions it would not be that much safer.

In reply to DalesClimber:


Must have done Dorsal about 30 times by now, and have had everything from swift solos to all-day epics with gripped clients. How quick a day it is also has a lot to do with how many folk you have ahead of you. I've counted 17 folk qued at the bottom of it and the top section sometimes looks like this: http://blog.westcoast-mountainguides.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Dorsa...

In reply to JLS:

If you follow the North ridge until it flattens out you can just turn right and walk across the corrie floor to the normal descent, taking a bearing if neccessary. The bowl below the main Corrie *could* in theory avalanche, but it's a bit lower and I've never seen it go.

In reply to Jamie B:


Bloody hell!

In reply to Jamie B:

That just looks like a complete clusterf@*k

In reply to drunken monkey:

My thoughts exactly! If it looked like that I would rather just go for a walk...

I can queue in Sainsbury's - I don't drive to Scotland to do it!

In reply to DalesClimber:

I have a simple rule - if you leave the carpark at 8am you will either be first on Dorsal, or the one team ahead of you will be entirely competent and not affect your day. It does seem to attract late-starters and the sorts that spend 30 minutes faffing at the gear-up spot when 10 would do.

In reply to JLS:

Far safer to go down the ridges on either side than down Broad Gully.

In reply to Jamie B:

Well the route only takes about 20 mins so spending a bit longer gearing up probably isn't going to matter!

In reply to Jamie B:

It was the slope off the ridge down onto corrie floor I was concerned about but from what you say it seems it's never steep enough to be a problem. Cheers.

In reply to JLS:

As you look at the crags - I have seen the slope to the right (Further right of NC gully) with avalanche debris on it/at the base of it.

In reply to drunken monkey:


Yes, that's quite common (usually cornice collapse). Just keep going down the N.Ridge until it isn't a ridge any more before turning right - don't be tempted to cut the corner.

In reply to Jamie B:

Agree. I wouldnt be tempted to nip down there. I've seen evidence of that slope going a few times in the past.

In reply to drunken monkey:

thanks for the advice, what i really want was if anyone had been down it recently, having done DA many times, is the path off down towards the zig zazs possible?

In reply to stuart58:


Hardly a path, was a lengthy wade on Sunday https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.228662557337504.1073741846.189398...

In reply to Jamie B:

Again years since I been there, but beyond the wade, aren't parts of the the ridge between SCNL summit and the Zig Zags quite difficult? I.e. more than a walk or be it not too hard if you aready managed to get youself up Dorsal Arete.

In reply to JLS:


The upper section, known as the East Ridge of SCnL or sometimes the "Easy Ridge" is recognised as grade I, not difficult bar one scrambly section but quite exposed. Somebody who'd done Dorsal would expect to be okay on it though. Downclimbing the Zig-Zags is also not trivial under snow, not least because it can be tricky to locate and then route-find the upper part.

Overall it would be massively faster to decend the N.Ridge and then the main Lochan path.

In reply to Jamie B:

>"not difficult bar one scrambly section but quite exposed"

Yeah, that's how I remember it. I think I also recall that a year or two before I was last there, someone was unfortunate enough to come to grief there.

In reply to Jamie B:

wow never even seen Striding Edge, Sharp Edge or Pinnacle Ridge like this, didn't think Scotland suffered from this kind of issue, what with Aonach Eagoch ridge right across the road and Curved Ridge so close so much other good stuff around and traffic like this amazing.

In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Dont worry they are all experienced muppets. Its the same as wet snow gully muppets: they all make their informed choices. The real problems for non muppets occur on routes like Tower Ridge when you cant see ahead and if you hit a queue you have to deal with such, including incompetant soloists slip sliding away as they overtake (and tangling and cramponing your ropes) when you are leading. I like Jamie's 8:00am start theory ...that would be a nice lie in

In reply to Offwidth:


Can such a thing exist? If you do get them it won't be for very long.

I think anyone soloing Tower Ridge successfully can be regarded as 'highly competent'.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

That's what I though when I first started, but of those I've seen in traffic on a busy climb, quite a few were doing something dumb (sloppy technigue, moving up in the fall line of ice lumps from climbers above, climbing over others ropes without proper care, etc). On my Tower Ridge ascent I had to go almost into meditation on Tower Gap to calm down: the last in a group of soloists who was plain ignoring me and messing with my ropes despite me asking him just to wait 30 seconds so I'd be safely on belay, then tripped on stepping down into the gap and caught a sling on my rope to stop a fall. You could almost question why any sensible soloist would be on the main line on Tower Ridge on a good day when many parties are visible above and lots of other routes or variations on the main ridge line on that route were clearly free.

Still compared to some of the popular big routes in europe the commonality of such incidents I've experinced are less. I dont expect everyone to be up to the standards of the best I've seen and climbed with (a certain P. Holden would be an example of amazing crisp technique)

In reply to Offwidth:

Muppets, lemmings, You should write a book we are all doing it wrong.

In reply to ERB:

There are enough excellent books already on good practice and things to avoid. The BMC put out information including annual lecture series on winter safety and there are many excellent guides, instructors and courses. The shame is, with all this advice available, that so many follow bad practice and that some here (who should know better) will defend it (or are you telling me you see anything right in that picture?). To be helpful for those struggling for alternative easier stuff when the queues are too long on DA: across Broad Gully, left of the steeper listed climbs, is an open face where you can weave up at grade I or II, with plenty of interest, direct to the summit.

In reply to Offwidth:

Yes, there are quite a few other easier routes there. Of course if snow conditions are no good (but the approach safe) then there aren't so many good options.

In reply to Michael Gordon:



When we did the direct start on deep snow and high winds it took a bit longer than 20 minutes! But then we only had walking axes and bendy boots, and 4 slings. It wasn't the stepped-out trade route I was expecting!

In reply to Michael Gordon:

If DA is in, so is the unlisted summit face left of things like Boomerang Gully; roughly the same angle and aspect.

In reply to top cat:

Chimney Varient? If so, I'm impressed!

In reply to Wesley Orvis:


striding edge is a walk with a big bypass path. It's not really comparable to more committing routes.

In reply to Milesy:

My point wasn't about comparing routes just that i didn't think that Scotland suffered from the crowding issues we suffer in the Lakes, that's all.

In reply to Offwidth:

I like Jamie's 8:00am start theory ...that would be a nice lie in

Whereas my rule of thumb is, "an early start seldom pays off"

In reply to Siward:

Interesting. I find it hard to get up real early but can't remember ever regretting it on a winter route in my 20+ years