UKC

just for discussion; I have always had BMC "Rock" (or equivalent) insurance for any European sport climbing trip but I now have a pre-existing medical condition and it could be tricky. I wonder though, in a scenario of visiting a country (such as France) covered by the E.H.I.C card where acute medical care is covered, and climbing on single-pitch sport crags which any paramedic could walk to, what is the credible risk through not having specific climbing insurance? The cost of having to shell out for repatriation yes, or the cost of relatives having to schlep to visit me yes, but apart from this, what? Thanks.

In reply to silhouette:

Helicopter costs in case of a bad accident? They can be pretty high!

In reply to silhouette:

AFAIK you'd get immediate emergency care in an accident under the EHIC, but anything beyond that you would be charged for, and could cost £1,000s quite easily if it involved hospital admission and treatment for a while. (As a matter of information I don't think France has paramedics in ambulances the same way we do.)

I always used to get travel insurance, but haven't bothered recently a few times for the same kind of thing - sport climbing in Europe in non-remote areas.

It's a gamble, probably a stupid one really if you can get insurance (although noted you said you might have problems due to a pre-existing condition).

In reply to crayefish:


But not in France.

In reply to JayPee630:


Well they do - but ambulance is not the correct word. Google SMUR (Service mobile d'urgence et de réanimation) They will always try to treat the badly injured on the spot rather than bundling them into an ambulance and carting them off to hospital.

In reply to jon:
Yeah, I know they have ambulances but it's a very different system and you get quite different (for good and bad) care than you would here, the paramedic skill level doesn't exist there AFAIK.

In reply to JayPee630:

Do you mean the UK is superior or inferior?

In reply to jon:

I think just different - probably better in some ways and worse in others! Sorry to be vague!

In reply to JayPee630:

I think you'd be surprised.

In reply to jon:

Yup, probably! These things are of course slightly variable as well depending on who you get attending your accident. But I'd be interested if it's systematically better there as the system here is really failing and needs a complete re-design - except not the way the Tories mean!

Anyway, thread hijack over... sorry. Back to insurance or lack thereof...

In reply to JayPee630: thanks for replies so far guys

In reply to silhouette:

I´d have no interest in whether a paramedic can walk to the cliff, more that someone carries me away to a hospital with a surgeon. Maybe that´s just me though.
Insurance is worth whatever the insured thinks it is.

In reply to silhouette:

IMO to not have insurance when in another country whether it be basic travel insurance or more detailed sport insurance is simply not worth the risk. There are too many factors that could trip you up without it.

In reply to silhouette:

I have always had travel insurance but never bothered with climbing insurance until I started ice climbing and off-piste skiing.

I figured the risks were pretty low on a sport climbing trip to the continent.

I did manage to claim the cost of French rescue and ambulance for a ski accident on my Insure-and-go policy (basic plus ski cover).

In reply to jimtitt:
Ha, you do know that in lots of cases you'd need a paramedic or equivalent to treat/stabilize you at the scene so someone just carrying you away to a hospital didn't make you much worse or even result in your death?

In reply to silhouette:

Repatriation is the massive cost. If you aren't allowed on a normal plane/boat, it gets to tens of thousands very quickly. Though you're less likely not to be allowed on a normal boat, this is I guess the advantage of France being nearer.

Neil

In reply to silhouette:

Clearly check with the BMC, but my reading of their cover for those with a pre-existing medical condition is that they'll happily cover you for everything unrelated to the condition (ie for climbing accidents, but not treatment for the pre-existing condition)?

There's also a list of conditions they're happy to cover with no questions. But if you want cover for a condition that's not listed, you need to talk to the insurers (which I've done in the past for one of the kids who was waiting to be signed off by consultant, and didn't lead to extra charge)

I guess it's a bit muddy if you have something like epilepsy that might actually cause a climbing fall.

In reply to silhouette:

The relative percentage risk is not the issue. In sport climbing it is relatively low. The issue is the cost of unlikely catastrophe eg bolt pop and deck landing. This can be astronomic, You have said a country 'such as France'. Well France is a very big place and just because some areas might (and I use the term might, not will) provide 'free chopper rescue' others might not. Now in Italy, Aosta does, but I wouldn't bet on Sardinia or Sicily stumping up, they are in dire financial straits. I personally would not bet my life on Spain at the moment. Then, there is repatriation. There is no obligation to get you home. Their 'obligation' would cease when you are medically discharged, and that can be as basic as 'no risk of death' then you're into real numbers, planes, doctors / nurses on planes. I will assume that you don't have infinite money to hand. Then you're into asking parents or others for what could be negatively life changing sums. Even death costs, would you want your parents (wife, partner) to be responsible for many thousands of pounds to get your body home. Spain to UK about £4,000.00 before UK burial.

In reply to silhouette:

As I understand, the E111 will NOT cover all your medical costs in France. It only entitles you to what a local would get for free absent any other insurance and in France healthcare is not free like we have here with the NHS. You might get some elements for free but some/most will need to be paid for and is covered by insurance provided by work or social insurance if you are on benefits. So whilst the average French person does not ultimately have to pay, it isn't free at the point of use. The element covered by insurance is the bit that the E111 will NOT cover. So you may well have to pay for even a simple visit to a GP. That's my understanding anyway.

In reply to silhouette:

You could look into the insurance automatically comes with being a member of the Austrian Alpine Club (UK branch). They cover you all year for any number of trips, and any time you are involved in mountaineering in your recreational time abroad you are covered. They only cover rescue,repatriation, and essential emergency medical care required to get you into a fit state to be repatriated. The maximum payout is a lot lower than other specialist adventure sports travel insurance and it doesn't cover any other aspect of travel insurance eg. car crashes, illness, lost luggage, ticket cancellations etc.
It's just to cover mountaineering/climbing related accidents. It's only a matter of tens of pounds to become a member. I use that for climbing and then just use the ordinary travel insurance policies that are very cheap to cover all other aspects of being overseas.

In reply to Misha:


But it's only about 28€. The best bet is to not have an accident..., or failing that fork out a fortune for insurance you won't use.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:
If it's €28 for a gp visit (any medicines on top of that), what's a couple of days in hospital... I agree best not to have an accident (not just for financial reasons of course) but I wouldn't presonally rely on an E111. Insurance is something I pay but hope to never had to use...

In reply to Misha:

I've had recent experience of using the E111 in Europe for both myself and a friend. One incident was climbing related, the other not. The clinic offered good and quick service all in return for us showing the E111.

Whilst a few years back we needed to make a claim on a BMC policy (not medical, this was a case of a lost / stolen property). The whole process was a total faff with us wasting a day obtaining a police report, followed by numerous phone calls once back in the UK, and after all that they paid out something like 50% of the value (= to £80).

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Ah, that's Paris for you - 23€ here!