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Reflecting on our winter of weather...and the crags lost over the years to the elements.
A Top 10 so far...
Crack in the Sky (Carn Barra)
Yankee Doodle (Land’s End)
Public Enemy (St Govan’s)
Face Value (St Govan’s)
Deer Bield Buttress (Lakes)
Bobby’s Goove (Vivian Slate)
Araucaria (Lundy)
Terriers Tooth (Chair Ladder)
Tatra (Boulder Ruckle)
Portland (select from recent)
Other candidates soon? North Crag Eliminate is on the list…
A Top 10 so far...
Crack in the Sky (Carn Barra)
Yankee Doodle (Land’s End)
Public Enemy (St Govan’s)
Face Value (St Govan’s)
Deer Bield Buttress (Lakes)
Bobby’s Goove (Vivian Slate)
Araucaria (Lundy)
Terriers Tooth (Chair Ladder)
Tatra (Boulder Ruckle)
Portland (select from recent)
Other candidates soon? North Crag Eliminate is on the list…
In reply to Greenbanks:
Not exactly lost, but significantly altered:
Central Butress
King Kong
Eroica
Not exactly lost, but significantly altered:
Central Butress
King Kong
Eroica
In reply to Greenbanks:
Quite a few at St Govan's over the years.
Sepulchre/Cenotaph at Kern Knotts
Cube Root at Malham
Sideshow at Hodge Close (things like Stiff Little Fingers are heading the same way)
There was a big rockfall at Parrock Quarry which took out a few routes.
Welcome to Mother at Gogarth
Quite a few at St Govan's over the years.
Sepulchre/Cenotaph at Kern Knotts
Cube Root at Malham
Sideshow at Hodge Close (things like Stiff Little Fingers are heading the same way)
There was a big rockfall at Parrock Quarry which took out a few routes.
Welcome to Mother at Gogarth
In reply to Greenbanks:
I think Titans Groove at Dovestones Main Quarry is a gonner too but I'm not certain.
I think Titans Groove at Dovestones Main Quarry is a gonner too but I'm not certain.
In reply to Greenbanks:
Earth Rim Roamer I
Controlled burning
Is the Mow pinnacle still standing? It was scheduled to fall over ages ago!
Earth Rim Roamer I
Controlled burning
Is the Mow pinnacle still standing? It was scheduled to fall over ages ago!
In reply to Greenbanks: Conscientious Objector at St Govans.
Psycho (and Stupid Cupid) at Stoney Middleton.
Psycho (and Stupid Cupid) at Stoney Middleton.
In reply to GrahamD:
I know it lost a peg, but has the rock changed?
> Not exactly lost, but significantly altered:
> Eroica
I know it lost a peg, but has the rock changed?
In reply to Greenbanks:
St Govans has lost quite a lot hasn't it. In addition to Public Enemy, one of mine, Equilibrium and two others of Pat's, Equipoise and Wicked Gravity all succombed to the same storm a few years back. I don't know of anyone doing Equilibrium...? They were brilliant routes.
Edit: Although it seems from the database that Mike Owen and Simon Lee and someone else did Equilibrium.
St Govans has lost quite a lot hasn't it. In addition to Public Enemy, one of mine, Equilibrium and two others of Pat's, Equipoise and Wicked Gravity all succombed to the same storm a few years back. I don't know of anyone doing Equilibrium...? They were brilliant routes.
Edit: Although it seems from the database that Mike Owen and Simon Lee and someone else did Equilibrium.
Post edited at 16:54
In reply to Greenbanks:
Interesting. as one might expect, the bulk of the routes to go are on sea cliffs. Several of the inland casualties are less apparent as complete wrie-offs: interested to know what other Deer Bield routes went (there's a Footless Crow article on this crag, but not much is revealed)
In my view the biggest loss has been at St Govans - such a concentration of hard, quality routes at ***
In all this, I'm left musing on the biggest loss of all, taking all levels of climbing into account...Terriers Tooth maybe?
Interesting. as one might expect, the bulk of the routes to go are on sea cliffs. Several of the inland casualties are less apparent as complete wrie-offs: interested to know what other Deer Bield routes went (there's a Footless Crow article on this crag, but not much is revealed)
In my view the biggest loss has been at St Govans - such a concentration of hard, quality routes at ***
In all this, I'm left musing on the biggest loss of all, taking all levels of climbing into account...Terriers Tooth maybe?
In reply to Greenbanks:
not gone yet but we soon could lose a substantial part of a whole crag,,Peak Scar North Yorks couple of areas not good at all
not gone yet but we soon could lose a substantial part of a whole crag,,Peak Scar North Yorks couple of areas not good at all
In reply to Jonny2vests:
Eroica rock hasn't changed (AFAIK), but the route has - the peg used for aid was part of the traditional grade
Eroica rock hasn't changed (AFAIK), but the route has - the peg used for aid was part of the traditional grade
In reply to GrahamD:
Right. I think the list could get quite long if we include those.
> Eroica rock hasn't changed (AFAIK), but the route has - the peg used for aid was part of the traditional grade
Right. I think the list could get quite long if we include those.
In reply to Greenbanks:
All small fry compared to the Bonatti Piller. !
> Reflecting on our winter of weather...and the crags lost over the years to the elements.
> A Top 10 so far...
> Crack in the Sky (Carn Barra)
> Yankee Doodle (Land’s End)
> Public Enemy (St Govan’s)
> Face Value (St Govan’s)
> Deer Bield Buttress (Lakes)
> Bobby’s Goove (Vivian Slate)
> Araucaria (Lundy)
> Terriers Tooth (Chair Ladder)
> Tatra (Boulder Ruckle)
> Portland (select from recent)
> Other candidates soon? North Crag Eliminate is on the list…
All small fry compared to the Bonatti Piller. !
In reply to Greenbanks:
I was going to say Marsden Pinnacle which i thought was lost years ago but there seems to be current photos of it - I'm confused
I was going to say Marsden Pinnacle which i thought was lost years ago but there seems to be current photos of it - I'm confused
In reply to Bob:
I thought Stiff Little Fingers had gone already. At least in the sense of being a crack! Alternative Ulster and another thereabouts (Blind Prophets?) also gone.
Fandango at Tremadoc, of course, and Mainsail as well as Berlin (in fact the whole crag essentially).
> (In reply to Greenbanks)
> Sideshow at Hodge Close (things like Stiff Little Fingers are heading the same way)
> Sideshow at Hodge Close (things like Stiff Little Fingers are heading the same way)
I thought Stiff Little Fingers had gone already. At least in the sense of being a crack! Alternative Ulster and another thereabouts (Blind Prophets?) also gone.
Fandango at Tremadoc, of course, and Mainsail as well as Berlin (in fact the whole crag essentially).
In reply to John2:
Is the St Govan's pinnacle in Chapel Cove with The Entertainer on it still there? Ian and I called it that as it was climbed in a ferocious storm and huge waves breaking right over the thing. Of course no-one else was climbing - they were all watching us - hence the name! I think maybe Ben and Marion set up a belay to enable a rescue... my memory's a little hazy here. Ian will remember clearly!
Is the St Govan's pinnacle in Chapel Cove with The Entertainer on it still there? Ian and I called it that as it was climbed in a ferocious storm and huge waves breaking right over the thing. Of course no-one else was climbing - they were all watching us - hence the name! I think maybe Ben and Marion set up a belay to enable a rescue... my memory's a little hazy here. Ian will remember clearly!
In reply to Greenbanks:
Well everything from Deer Bield Crack to Deer Bield Chimney inclusive so Peccadillo; DesperadoTake it to the Limit, the Girdle. It probably has also affected Imagination since that route belayed in the Chimney.
> Interesting. as one might expect, the bulk of the routes to go are on sea cliffs. Several of the inland casualties are less apparent as complete wrie-offs: interested to know what other Deer Bield routes went (there's a Footless Crow article on this crag, but not much is revealed)
Well everything from Deer Bield Crack to Deer Bield Chimney inclusive so Peccadillo; DesperadoTake it to the Limit, the Girdle. It probably has also affected Imagination since that route belayed in the Chimney.
In reply to jon:
That route's not in the current guide, so I can't be sure. I assume you mean the pinnacle where climbing is not allowed. The pinnacle itself is still there.
Re the big St Govan's rockfall, I'm told it was so loud that it was heard in the St Govan's Inn.
That route's not in the current guide, so I can't be sure. I assume you mean the pinnacle where climbing is not allowed. The pinnacle itself is still there.
Re the big St Govan's rockfall, I'm told it was so loud that it was heard in the St Govan's Inn.
In reply to deepstar:
What happened to it? That was one of my all time favourite routes.
> Not lost to the elements but to man, Mourning Glory at Cheddar Gorge.
What happened to it? That was one of my all time favourite routes.
In reply to rogerwebb:
There was a "Rock Stabalization Programme" in the 80's and Mourning Glory and Knights Climb were seriously altered
> What happened to it? That was one of my all time favourite routes.
There was a "Rock Stabalization Programme" in the 80's and Mourning Glory and Knights Climb were seriously altered
In reply to Bob:
> Peccadillo; DesperadoTake it to the Limit" - ah, some of the classic products of the Whillance, Lamb, Botterill era then. Suspected as much.
In reply to Rick Graham:
Think birchwood crack (whatstandwell in the south peak) is now lost, unless you have a big spade.
Think it got two or three stars.
Think birchwood crack (whatstandwell in the south peak) is now lost, unless you have a big spade.
Think it got two or three stars.
In reply to Greenbanks:
Walthwaite Offwidth langdale.
one of the first routes someone attempted to drag me up... now in the field below
Walthwaite Offwidth langdale.
one of the first routes someone attempted to drag me up... now in the field below
Post edited at 21:02
In reply to Dave Garnett:
Back in the eighties I led Technical Master E3 6a on that slab and was pretty chuffed. Went down a week later to find that the whole slab had slipped down the hillside, complete with my chalk marks on it. Geology? You can shove it.
> Fandango at Tremadoc, of course,
Back in the eighties I led Technical Master E3 6a on that slab and was pretty chuffed. Went down a week later to find that the whole slab had slipped down the hillside, complete with my chalk marks on it. Geology? You can shove it.
In reply to deepstar:
Knight's climb as well! That does upset me. Climbing that in February 75 got me seriously into climbing (whether that was a good thing or not).
Mourning Glory was an outstanding day.
> There was a "Rock Stabalization Programme" in the 80's and Mourning Glory and Knights Climb were seriously altered
Knight's climb as well! That does upset me. Climbing that in February 75 got me seriously into climbing (whether that was a good thing or not).
Mourning Glory was an outstanding day.
In reply to Greenbanks:
In all these various fallings down there is a $64K questionm: has there EVER been a route that's collapsed and the result has been a really great route in its place? Can't really think of much at present - possible exception of Earth Rim Roamer I at Dyer's.
In all these various fallings down there is a $64K questionm: has there EVER been a route that's collapsed and the result has been a really great route in its place? Can't really think of much at present - possible exception of Earth Rim Roamer I at Dyer's.
In reply to Greenbanks:
When I was a lad...
There was a crag in the North Tyne Valley that I did a few half decent routes on before the whole lot disappeared under Kielder Water. None were brilliant but since it was an entire crag does it get into the top ten?
When I was a lad...
There was a crag in the North Tyne Valley that I did a few half decent routes on before the whole lot disappeared under Kielder Water. None were brilliant but since it was an entire crag does it get into the top ten?
In reply to rogerwebb:
Yes the vandalism to the pinnacle at the top of the Raven Chimney was unforgivable.
Yes the vandalism to the pinnacle at the top of the Raven Chimney was unforgivable.
In reply to colin struthers:
Excellent shout - though it does raise the question as to whether anything became submerged under Ladybower, Thirlmere etc
On the latter, interesting account here
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/300/5625/1510.full
The illustration suggests water-level rocks of a scale that might have kept the earliest pioneers happy
Excellent shout - though it does raise the question as to whether anything became submerged under Ladybower, Thirlmere etc
On the latter, interesting account here
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/300/5625/1510.full
The illustration suggests water-level rocks of a scale that might have kept the earliest pioneers happy
In reply to Greenbanks:
So what's replaced it? I did Earth Rim Roamer II and I wouldn't have said that IT was a great route. Has that now gone and left something better?
> has there EVER been a route that's collapsed and the result has been a really great route in its place? Can't really think of much at present - possible exception of Earth Rim Roamer I at Dyer's.
So what's replaced it? I did Earth Rim Roamer II and I wouldn't have said that IT was a great route. Has that now gone and left something better?
In reply to deepstar:
Well thanks for telling me, I was going to do both routes with my daughter at Easter. Have to find something else.
I assume Lucifer has gone as well (first ever route)
Well thanks for telling me, I was going to do both routes with my daughter at Easter. Have to find something else.
I assume Lucifer has gone as well (first ever route)
In reply to rogerwebb:
You can still climb Knights Climb,the Rowan and Raven chimneys are still there but the pinnacle has been truncated and it is considerably harder to do the step across than it was.
You can still climb Knights Climb,the Rowan and Raven chimneys are still there but the pinnacle has been truncated and it is considerably harder to do the step across than it was.
In reply to jon:
No idea - I think Roamer II is still there. Roamer I has sentimental attraction, as I saw Littlejohn & Jones do the first ascent (complete with Steve's whipper from about 25tf from the top)
No idea - I think Roamer II is still there. Roamer I has sentimental attraction, as I saw Littlejohn & Jones do the first ascent (complete with Steve's whipper from about 25tf from the top)
In reply to JCW: Bottom overhang fell off some years back. Now a dirty 5a/5b (long time since I did it)crack. Rest of the route is pretty overgrown with trees and grass. Gone from a 3* route to a no * route.
Crags disappearing - plenty of climbing quarries in Leicestershire either been filled in with water, rubbish or rock.
Crags disappearing - plenty of climbing quarries in Leicestershire either been filled in with water, rubbish or rock.
In reply to jcw:
the big ledge/block, about 10 feet up,fell off about 15 years ago. Changed the nature of the problem but it' still a fun start.
the big ledge/block, about 10 feet up,fell off about 15 years ago. Changed the nature of the problem but it' still a fun start.
In reply to Greenbanks:
Whilst this thread is still alive I'd also like to throw in consideration of routes which have been submerged by vegetation, a result of the ceaseless tide of enthusiasm for sport & bouldering options...
I'm thinking here, for instance, of some of the stuff down in Borrowdale - for example, on Great End Crag
Whilst this thread is still alive I'd also like to throw in consideration of routes which have been submerged by vegetation, a result of the ceaseless tide of enthusiasm for sport & bouldering options...
I'm thinking here, for instance, of some of the stuff down in Borrowdale - for example, on Great End Crag
In reply to Greenbanks: and others.
Unknown Buttress , yes my first visit to Avon (and. I think some others. In the vicinity also)
Poseidon on the Ruckle on my first visit to Swanage and a FA
Wasn't there something about blowing up Hounds Head Buttress?
What happened to Saucepan Bach? Did it fall down nor was absorbed into something else?
And of course, crossing the Channel a little rock route called The Bonatti Pillar I believe!
Unknown Buttress , yes my first visit to Avon (and. I think some others. In the vicinity also)
Poseidon on the Ruckle on my first visit to Swanage and a FA
Wasn't there something about blowing up Hounds Head Buttress?
What happened to Saucepan Bach? Did it fall down nor was absorbed into something else?
And of course, crossing the Channel a little rock route called The Bonatti Pillar I believe!
In reply to jcw:
I tended not to consider stuff beyond these shores - once one goes to the teetering Dru or Cima grande the floodgates could open
I tended not to consider stuff beyond these shores - once one goes to the teetering Dru or Cima grande the floodgates could open
In reply to Pekkie:
I did a late ascent of Fandango. I've often wondered which would have been the worst end of the rope to be attached to when the flake went - at the sharp end, laybacking up a suddenly widening crack, or belaying and facing the prospect of holding a 15 ton block on a belay plate! Or rather,
I did a late ascent of Fandango. I've often wondered which would have been the worst end of the rope to be attached to when the flake went - at the sharp end, laybacking up a suddenly widening crack, or belaying and facing the prospect of holding a 15 ton block on a belay plate! Or rather,
In reply to Trangia:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68744
Not completely - remains to be seen whether the re-shaping has created a naff experience instead of the poetic HS that expired.
So I suppose it strictly speaking shouldnt be in the list yet...
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68744
Not completely - remains to be seen whether the re-shaping has created a naff experience instead of the poetic HS that expired.
So I suppose it strictly speaking shouldnt be in the list yet...
In reply to Greenbanks:
We had a whole buttress disapear at Lands End (Dr.Syntax´s Head), it took six of our routes before they got into the guide book. We did put some new ones up on the freshly exposed rock, amongst others ¨Second Chance¨ (E1). Rats in a Rage at Chair Ladder losts all its crux holds, leaving a now far harder climb, and the nearby Animated Wall lost a few holds too. Also Center Piece lost its flake. Gullible and The Orb went too. The first pitch of The Cornishman (Seal Cave) fell down. Stone Boom lost a chunk of its traverse. Bishops Rib lost a chunk of its overlap and increased the grade. Aggressive Edge and Hallucination at Fox Promontory got washed away. A couple of our routes fell down at Levan´s Wall, but before they went to the guide. These are all from the past of course, and not the recent storms.
We had a whole buttress disapear at Lands End (Dr.Syntax´s Head), it took six of our routes before they got into the guide book. We did put some new ones up on the freshly exposed rock, amongst others ¨Second Chance¨ (E1). Rats in a Rage at Chair Ladder losts all its crux holds, leaving a now far harder climb, and the nearby Animated Wall lost a few holds too. Also Center Piece lost its flake. Gullible and The Orb went too. The first pitch of The Cornishman (Seal Cave) fell down. Stone Boom lost a chunk of its traverse. Bishops Rib lost a chunk of its overlap and increased the grade. Aggressive Edge and Hallucination at Fox Promontory got washed away. A couple of our routes fell down at Levan´s Wall, but before they went to the guide. These are all from the past of course, and not the recent storms.
In reply to Greenbanks:
I reckon the central, main section of Hidden Buttress on The Lizard might qualify. Four routes, 8 or 9 stars between them including Dead Reckoning E2, Beauty and The Beast E5, a Crocker E6 and the top half of the classic groove of True North HVS. We reckoned that TN might offer an E3 with a bit of loose rock removal.
I reckon the central, main section of Hidden Buttress on The Lizard might qualify. Four routes, 8 or 9 stars between them including Dead Reckoning E2, Beauty and The Beast E5, a Crocker E6 and the top half of the classic groove of True North HVS. We reckoned that TN might offer an E3 with a bit of loose rock removal.
In reply to Greenbanks:
Loads of routes have gone in the Dinorwig slate quarries - the Ground Up Llanberis slate guide is full of them.
Rock fall at Hodge Close I think has changed some routes, and a buttress at Park Nab came away (years ago) taking Shere Khan and others with it.
Loads of routes have gone in the Dinorwig slate quarries - the Ground Up Llanberis slate guide is full of them.
Rock fall at Hodge Close I think has changed some routes, and a buttress at Park Nab came away (years ago) taking Shere Khan and others with it.
In reply to Trangia:
Keep up Trangia, this was a major talking point in the past week or so
> I didn't know that Terrier's Tooth had gone. When did that happen?
Keep up Trangia, this was a major talking point in the past week or so
In reply to Choss:
That's still there. Still a scree slope, albeit not quite the same one.
jcm
> The almighty...
That's still there. Still a scree slope, albeit not quite the same one.
jcm
In reply to Iain Peters:
What?? When did that happen? I did DR fairly recently.
jcm
> I reckon the central, main section of Hidden Buttress on The Lizard might qualify. Four routes, 8 or 9 stars between them including Dead Reckoning E2, Beauty and The Beast E5, a Crocker E6 and the top half of the classic groove of True North HVS. We reckoned that TN might offer an E3 with a bit of loose rock removal.
What?? When did that happen? I did DR fairly recently.
jcm
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