UKC

What are climbers views on soloing (I know what non climbers views are!). Is it the purest form of ascent worthy of aspiration or the ultimate unjustifiable risk. Interested to here from those that solo and those that don't.

In reply to alpinechris:

Isn't a naked solo the purist form?

In reply to alpinechris:

Badly worded options designed to make people argue by the looks of it.

Soloing is many things, usually done by people who are hyper paranoid about being safe in my experience.

In reply to alpinechris:

Neither? It's what you make of it. I don't tend to do it now - or very much before - but it never felt 'better' than leading with a rope for me.

In reply to alpinechris:

I am not sure it's either. Just something different. I certainly experience more of a thrill when soloing, but its more about being alone on the mountain... just you and the rock/ice/snow. I liken it to a form of exhilarating meditation

In reply to alpinechris:

It's neither of your options for me.


There's something good about soloing when you just flow through the moves without the option of getting it wrong.

In the hills I normally use it as a means of travelling quickly on ground I'm confident on, such as long vdiffs. Whereas on single pitch crags I use it for the fun of climbing slightly harder routes and for doing more in a day.

I soloed all the routes within my grade at Kingussie once which came to I think 26 routes. The other side of the coin, for my friends that were pitching they got 4 routes done.

In reply to alpinechris:

Some interesting points being made. I'm not looking to set up an argument here. For sure its not an either or (infact it can be both and many other things). I've noticed that if you sort your climbs by style in your UKC log book Soloed routs come first. interesting

In reply to alpinechris:

I think there is a freedom in soloing that extends beyond the crag. Walking up to the rock face unencumbered by kit, the purity of movement with only the moves to think about then getting to the top and sauntering away. With the simplicity comes a greater connectedness to the moves and the environment.

I've not often experienced'flow'when climbing, but usually it has been when soloing. It's the closest I think I'll ever get to deep play and yes, I think easy single pitch routes are fair game on the right day.

Now a wife and kids are around, I do it far less and consider the risks more. I think its more of a special treat nowadays.

In reply to alpinechris:

The sort order will just be a database thing - I wouldn't read anything in to that.

I used to solo quite a lot, the youthful feeling of immortality! A mixture of reasons: no partner for the day; just a quick way to get some easy routes done (especially on grit); do a route whilst out for a walk and you don't fancy taking a rack, etc.

In reply to markAut:

Yep how you have described it resonates with me for sure. I'd add that its even better when you have the entire crag to yourself.

In reply to a lakeland climber:

yes, but someone picked the sort order... and it also sorts trad above sport climbs - which is annoying when I'm trying to remember my hardest redpoints and some poxy vdiffs fill up the first page... grrrr

(I know what non climbers views are!)

What are they?

In reply to duchessofmalfi:

Typically I have found that a non climbers response when they see people soloing goes something like they must be...mad, crazy, nuts, stupid etc and then they go on and ask questions like..."what would happen then if they fell?

Thats my experience anyway

In reply to a lakeland climber:



No job, no mates, living in the middle of bloody nowhere...

In reply to a lakeland climber:



There's no 'just' about soloing, ever. I felt that even when I was young and soloed quite a lot (well, not very much really) Anything technically harder than scrambling, where one slip and you're definitely dead, can never be taken lightly.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

That's true of quite a few scrambles as well though isn't it.

In reply to nw:


yes it certainly is!!

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


As a teenager it was often 'just' soloing for me, I think, a tranquil feeling of floating upwards, feeling secure that things are fine.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I agree Gordon.
Also a lot depends on the situation. Going solo on a Stanage VS is nothing to going roped up on some distant mountain where the weather can change, stone fall occurs and the possibility of benightment looms. Probably far more perish trudging up Everest, with all the attendant equipment and support, than do soloing in the Peak on a sunny day

In reply to alpinechris:

I find soloing the occasional diff/vdiff Is alright (not that I've done many). Quite enjoy it actually. Especially if your climbing in a group of three, stops you from getting bored stiff. But nothing at great height, at that point I deem it to be an unjustifiable risk for myself, as I know that the higher up I get the more nervous I get. Up to say, 15 metres, I can keep my cool. Above that my brain starts letting me know that I'm doing something that is getting me too psyched, for instance, Jomo (VD), I know I can climb it easily, all the moves are well within my reach but the height really gets to me when Im ropeless - so thats where I draw the line!

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Perhaps 'just' was the wrong word. Many of my early routes were solos, I didn't really know any different, up to what I later found out to be VS in grade. Later, most solos were well within my abilities though some were close to it. There was no macho "look at me" type posturing as many solos I just did and didn't let on. Maybe it was an addictive drug, there were certainly some close shaves.

I've been back on routes I've soloed and shuddered at what I'd done back in the day.

In reply to alpinechris:

I love soloing. It's the most engaging form of climbing I've done, commanding every ounce of focus. No ropes to drag, no gear to place, just pure movement diced with ripples of suppressed fear. A solo ascent is that much better for me because I have removed doubt. There can be no doubt when soloing, and climbing a route without a rope is as committing as it gets. The commitment is what brings the rush.

In reply to alpinechris:

Last time out soloing for me, I could have climbed with a partner that day but I said 'no' as I just fancied a day unencumbered by ropes, gear and thoughts of having to keep someone else safe. I can't say I felt any 'flow' but it was a pleasant day and I got a lot done.

Personally, I view a solo of a route as purer than a roped ascent and if I solo something that I've lead, the lead is removed from the logbook but then I don't count lots of stuff, anything abroad etc.

In reply to MischaHY:
In the first deep water soloing article I read, it had 2 imaginary climbers wondering whether soloing was the purest form, or whether with the consequences of falling always present, a soloist could ever be free to focus just on the climbing, before 1 thinks 'Sod it I'm off deep water soloing'.

In reply to alpinechris:

Soloing needs a certain mindset, when you're in the right headspace, it's great. Unfortunately though, too many good climbers and some of my good friends have died soloing, I don't solo often, but it hasn't stopped me. I have a good friend and climbing partner who solos a lot, I was talking about the risks with him a few days ago. He accepts them, and thinks that it's worth it - I can respect that, I just hope I'll not be going to his funeral too soon.

In reply to Timmd:

Ha, definitely. DWS is awesome in that it allows you to push the physical boundaries safely, but the danger is a key part of soloing. The mental control is a massive part of what is so impressive.

In reply to alpinechris:

A well-judged solo is arguably safer than a poorly-judged lead.

In reply to MischaHY:
Maybe teenage soloing doesn't count quite the same when it comes to mental control, when you don't really think you'll fall off and die. ()

In reply to Timmd:

Two of the best climbers/soloists climbers of their generation were killed falling off very easy climbs that I have soloed, in Tony Wilmotts case a V Diff he did just about every day as his quickest route home, and in Jimmy Jewels case a severe at Tremadoc he knew like the back of his hand.
I think soloing is obviously very dangerous but when you are too much inside your comfort zone, the brain switches off and thats what the real risk is.

In reply to alpinechris:


>

What stupid question.

It ranks along with "How does the first one get the rope up?" when talking about climbing generally.....

In reply to Trangia:

I know it makes you wonder doesn't it

In reply to Al Evans:

That is such an important point Al. its often on the easy ground or when we switch off, solo or not. Smith and Noyce for example.

In reply to Al Evans:

Just thinking as well about Paul Williams. How many times had he soloed Browns Eliminate that day just beofre he tragically fell...

In reply to Timmd:

I don't know about you, but I've certainly never had any illusions about the potential for death through soloing.

In reply to MischaHY:
I always knew it was possible as a teenager, to die from falling from high enough, but I feel 'more mortal' somehow now I'm older.

In reply to Trangia:

I think its a rhetorical question to be fair...and who's counting anyway?

In reply to alpinechris:

I climbed mount Snowdon last year, solo. Didn't seem unjustifiable to me.

The serious point being that the risk is relative to competence so Snowdon is 'only an easy walk' to the relatively experienced but a full on mountain day for others. Equally through scrambles and rock climbs.

Once an objective has been selected within ones capability, the risk element is the objective risk of eg rock failure and stone fall. There is only a limited amount of protection available against those things even if you are roped - and when you are roped you are in the danger zone for much longer.

In reply to Cameron94:

>..I think 26 routes. The other side of the coin, for my friends that were pitching they got 4 routes done.

So is climbing all about the number of routes you do then?

If so then it's obvious soloing is best for you.

In reply to Al Evans:


Whilst true, I've certainly led routes way below my limit, say for bringing up an inexperienced second, and taken up hardly any gear and half-heartedly placed a couple of bits for the look of the thing.

I am not convinced that this situation is not actually more dangerous than soloing.

In reply to alpinechris:

Soloing isn't dangerous. Falling off is dangerous. When you are soloing, you therefore tend not to fall off.

In reply to ByEek:


Falling off isn't dangerous, hitting the ground is dangerous.

In reply to Trangia:




Don't be so snobby. In the broad view, that is a good question. You are expecting people to instantly know how lead climbing works.

In reply to krikoman:




With all respect to Cameron94 I say "well said" to you
If I solo (rare!) I won't be doing any interesting or challenging technical moves. If I am leading, hopefully I will.

In reply to Jonny2vests:


A good point well made!

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

But the achievement of getting to the top of a Himalayan mountain is rather more impressive than a VS at Stanage where, as the crowds will point out, there is an easier way around the back. There is, I think, a difference between taking all/most reasonable precautions to achieve a risky but impressive goal where this is no other/easier way, and choosing not to use any precautions for something you can easily do and where the risky activity is not obligatory.

However, a cynic might suggest it isn't any better to die on Everest than to die falling off an oversized grit boulder problem...

In reply to alpinechris:

I solo a fair bit. I don't think its particularly worthy of aspiration OR an unjustifiable risk. It's a mode of climbing that some people prefer more than others. As other people have said.

It's difficult to draw a line in risk between, say, soloing some Vdiff with lots of gear and, say, "leading" any of the E5-and-up protectionless hard technical routes that there are regularly news items about.

Obviously the argument would be that the latter is "riskier" - which in my view it is - but no-one appears to start threads about it.

Some people like rock climbing, and don't mind too much about whether the grade is a personal best or its technically hard for them. They are likely to be natural soloists. I'll admit that not having to worry about ropes, gear, hanging around on belay for an hour, etc, is very liberating.

Equally, others may be of the view that the safety net of a rope is mandatory for them. That's fine too. These may be people who are pushing grade, or simply like to feel relaxed that their death is probably not on the cards.

When I'm soloing, I never think that I am risking my life, I never think that the next move could be my last, bucause it doesn't bother me. I climb in this little bubble where its all total concentration and the next move.

And yes, I could slip and fall to my doom, but I could do that on a high-graded protectionless route, or a low graded route I didn't bother to put much gear in (I think most of us are semi-guilty of this), or simply a route with spaced gear - e.g. Brown's Eliminate has claimed a few lives. Or I could slip at the top, or on the descent route.

Personally, my question would be "When you get to the top of the route and all you can see is 10m of wet grass at a 45 degree angle and crumbling earth steps hacked into the slope do you consider its an unjustifiable risk and want to lower off your last bit of gear?" But how many of us will pick our way up the slope to the salvation of the tree at the top?

In reply to Trangia:




I imagine your reply to this thread http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=579653&v=1#x7686816 would have been "what a stupid question".

In reply to alpinechris:

I've done my fair share of soloing, and it falls into a variety of different mindsets, from easy enjoyable pottering well within your comfort zone, to much harder routes.

Ironically, it's when you are soloing easier routes, that you are probably most at risk of something catastrophic happening.

I find that on harder routes, concentration is so focused, that I actually climb better, smoother, and with more control, because of the absence of any margin of error.

And the reason I enjoy soloing - the freedom, especially the freedom of movement, and the wonderfully 'selfish' nature of the experience, with no one else to take into consideration. It's the ultimate in climbing self-indulgence

In reply to andrewmcleod:

The perception of the achievement is down to the individual. I would say that soloing Partheon shot is a damn sight more impressive than having your ass hauled up Everest by sherpas but as you say others may differ.

In reply to Goucho:

Thats very much my experience. I also get less pumped because I'm not hanging around placing gear. I find that I climb through the crux and afterwards sometimes wonder where the crux was

In reply to alpinechris:

Most every climber who has done much outdoor climbing has soloed something. But, a lot of the time we haven't mentally labelled it as such. It was "just" an approach, or the descent gully or whatever. For example, I've climbed stuff at Stanage where the "easy way down" or descent after you've cleaned your anchor was far scarier than leading the climb on the way up. Especially the time I finished the climb in the rain, and had to do the descent soaking wet.

In reply to alpinechris:

There is a big difference between on sight soloing and going unroped up a familiar route, whatever the grade.

In reply to krikoman:

It's about how much I enjoy it, I like to cover a lot of ground. So in a way yes at a small crag it's about the number of routes. Why would you turn up at a crag and say "oh look there's loads of 3star routes, lets only do four of them"...

By soloing I got to spend more time climbing, more time on different routes and got more fun from it.

You ask the question as if you feel it's superior to turn up at a crag and do a few routes but supposedly enjoy or savor them more than turning up and doing a bit more.

In reply to Cameron94:


I think you've read too much into my post, I was merely questioning why you thought 26 as opposed to 4 or 6 or whatever is necessarily better.

And to be honest I much prefer to do less routes and savour them, whether that's soloing or a rope of four!!

Still, you do what you enjoy and have a nice time.