UKC

I've been contemplating buying my own ski set up. I'd say at the moment I'm a competent on piste, but I've only had limited experience off piste. My aspirations are to do more off-piste and to try some ski touring. I'd like to be able to ski into and out from routes too, e.g. for alpine ice.

I've come up with this plan:
1. Buy some decent touring boots, aiming to get one boot for everything. The La Sportiva Spectre stands out as a good option for what I'd eventually like to do (fit dependant obviously). Get some all mountain skis with AT bindings (e.g. Fritschi free ride). Not sure about skis - there's so much to choose from. I'm thinking something that would suit my current skill level and would be suitable for resort piste/off-piste and a small amount of touring. Blizzard Bushwackers sound like a possible choice. I'd also need avalanche transceiver etc.
2. Learn to ski better. This is probably where my plan will fail.
3. Get some proper touring skis with tech bindings - I'm thinking this would be 2 or 3 seasons away.
4. Awesomeness

Basically I'd end up with one pair of boots for everything from resort skiing to touring and ski mountaineering, and two sets of skis - one for resort based stuff and one for touring and mountaineering activities.

So, thoughts please? Am I being unrealistic with the boots? I suspect this will be the hardest thing to get right. I should also mention I have clown feet (my LS Nepals are size 48).

Also I haven't been skiing for two years now! I've got a trip planned in a couple of weeks (not looking to buy anything before that), hopefully it'll give me a chance to think more about what I want.

In reply to a crap climber:

You are falling into the 'UK climber goes skiing' trap.

You want downhill boots, or at the very least the latest touring crossover downhill boots. (i.e. K2 Pinnacle or similar...they will work with tech or downhill bindings)

If you 'really' just want to ski easy stuff and do gentle touring buy touring boots, other than that buy a proper pair of boots and learn to ski,

Then parts 2 and 4 become east

In reply to ClimberEd:


I suspected this might be the case!

I guess I need to learn to walk before I run, so to speak

In reply to a crap climber:

Just buy a pair of decent boots that are tech compatible, and a pair of decent downhill skis, unless you are racing randonnee downhill performance is much more important than up. (somehow on UKC there is an 'anti downhill' must be climber with super light touring kit attitude, it doesn't maximise enjoyment)

Oh, and enjoy

In reply to a crap climber:

Agree with ClimberEd points.

Others will disagree but I really would recommend learning to ski properly with downhill boots - it's considerably easier.

I would also put the most emphasis on point 2 of your plan at the moment. When you go in a couple of weeks take some lessons if you can. Your mates who are 'better' than you probably won't be able to accurately assess what's wrong with your skiing.

As for touring stuff, my first set up was bought on here (or ebay, I can't remember). Pretty much anything will do when you're starting out and you can refine later when you have more experience.

I may have misunderstood your OP but it seemed like you were going to 'relegate' your initial touring set up to resort skis once you've got 'proper' touring skis. I would also advice against this; there's no point skiing on touring bindings in resort if you've got 2 pairs of skis and don't intend to tour, put some downhill bindings on them.

In reply to a crap climber:
I'm really not sure about the one pair of boots thing. If you really want to tour, free ride and ski piste I think you need at least 2 pairs. I got the Scarpa freedom SLs to do just this and paired them with marker dukes. They are fantastic for lift served free ride but probably too heavy for anything more than short tours / hikes to powder. Other lighter boots don't seem to have the power for aggressive free ride (unless you are a hero) but are likely to be better for tours and on ice (with crampons). If touring is all you want you could also try the Mistrale RS which is relatively stiff and light. I think you need to be super confident free ride before serious touring which might take a couple of seasons. You could get a alpine with walk mode boot now and in a few seasons get a dedicated touring boot. That might better match your progress.

In reply to a crap climber:
88mm underfoot is pretty skinny these days. Start with something rockered, light and long that will be comfortable in a wide range of conditions maybe more like 100mm underfoot with touring bindings. Plenty of good boot options that are tech compatible, light but supportive and good for on/off piste. Just get something properly fitted, custom footbeds and moulded liners. No reason why a reasonably competent intermediate skier couldn't start with a setup like this with the aim to get out more and improve. Getting in and out of dynafits for piste days is no big deal.

In reply to ClimberEd:


There are also the 'piste skier goes touring' and 'haven't tried modern touring boots' traps whereby people think you can't learn on a touring boot or that they are soft floppy things that are a nightmare to ski.

Of course there are still soft touring boots about but something like a maestrale RS will be great for what the OP describes. I know lots of folks with one set of boots of this kind who ski them hard and you don't need to be a hero to do so.

In reply to a crap climber:

I have two sets of skis, 1 set for piste/short tours/lift served off piste and a lightweight set for proper tours. I have one pair of boots (Mastrales).

I have come to the conclusion that I will for next season be changing to some stiffer/heavier boots for set 1 and some lighter boots for set 2. I have been happy with the one boot set up for the last few years but to get the best out of everything this is no longer doing the job for me.

In reply to DaveHK:

"people think you can't learn on a touring boot or that they are soft floppy things that are a nightmare to ski."

Well... sort of. You can learn to ski in touring boots but it's harder. Learning to ski is pretty hard anyway, touring boots just makes it harder. Better off getting a dedicated pair of downhill boots and then touring boots once you're competent (that's what I did).

Works out more expensive but less frustrating. By the time you've learnt to ski in a downhill boot you may realise you want a different touring boot to the one you would have bought without any skiing experience.

In reply to a crap climber:

Ski boots are for people who can't ski in touring boots, and fat skis are for people who can't ski on normal ones.

In reply to tri-nitro-toulumne:

You don't need to be the best technical skier to go ski mountaineering and have an amazing time. I'm pretty bad but a number of the best days I've had in the mountains ever have been ski touring. If you want to ski mountaineer from a mountaineering background I think you can get into it with a rather different mindset than from a piste skiing background.

So I'm sure you are right that for learning to piste ski well having good downhill boots is the way to go, but if you want to ski tour, it seems more sensible to buy ski touring equipment.

The OP could just get telemark gear as there ain't any real difference between piste and touring gear there!

In reply to TobyA:

"So I'm sure you are right that for learning to piste ski well having good downhill boots is the way to go, but if you want to ski tour, it seems more sensible to buy ski touring equipment."

Yup, you may have a point there.

"a number of the best days I've had in the mountains ever have been ski touring."

All of my best days in the mountains have been ski touring

In reply to TobyA:

This is a good point.

There are (at least!) 2 schools of thought in skiing. The 'I want to be a good skier' school and the 'I want to ski certain stuff' school.

Those in the first school are usually better technically but tend to think that good technical ability is paramount.

Those in the second school get the skills they need to do the things they want to. They tend to be less polished.

Lots of climbers are probably in the second school.

In reply to a crap climber:

I'm not sure that I agree with many of the comments here. In principle, there is no reason why you can't have one pair of boots for everything. I dont, but then I am doing 60 days a year of very varied stuff, so have different set-ups for very different purposes.

BUT, modern AT boots (such as Scarpa Mastraele RS) are pretty stiff and i drive large skis on them. For me, and most here in Chamonix, an alpine boot doesnt make a lot of difference unless you really want to charge, and charge on something big.

In essence, the problem at root for everyone is finding a set-up that suits you, your foot shape (the Spectre's a find a bit odd, for example), and how you ski. There's no straightforward answer to that, so I would test/hire skis first in particular and get your mates/an instructor to look at how you do things..

With Blizzard skis you now have a sensational range of backcountry choices, such as the Kabookie, but for me the Bonafide stands out (they're a heavier version of the Kabookie, so better for freeride and what are usually tough and variable backcountry snow conditions - right now in the Alps, for example, you can experience everything in one day), otherwise a 2 ski quiver with one stiff AT boot is a very good compromise, and bear in mind that at this level all decisions are compromises.

I would add, however - as many have suggested - that for most, it takes an awful lot of time on planks to master the basics of ski technique. Most Brits really, really underestimate this. You cant be a great climber unless you do a lot of climbing, and the same is true of skiing, and particularly so of backcountry skiing.

That said, as with climbing, your experience is condition and grade dependent, and not just about your skill level. So pick the right place, and the right conditions and you too can discover one of the best kept mountain secrets, which is that off-piste is often easier than certain on-piste conditions.

Hope this helps,

John C.....

In reply to John Cuthbert:

I agree with John, I have Maestrales and they do me fine for both on and off piste. I have some Marker bindings on piste skis for family piste hols, and I use the same boots with dynafit bindings for off-piste/ touring.

Maestrale come in two flavours now: stiff and stiffer. They are good boots if Scarpa suit your feet. Go to a decent bootfitter & see what fits you best. Expect to part with £500.

In reply to DaveHK:


Yes - although I should stress the obvious, that just because you don't care about not being the best skier on a mountain [hint - go to mountains with no one else besides your party on them, then you'll be the second or third best no matter what! ] don't go somewhere dangerous if you're not skilled enough for that terrain. We were coming down the ridge of Holmbuktind last May on our return from Jiehkkevárri and it really struck me that although it wasn't desperate skiing, being out of control near either edge would probably be fatal. My skiing is far from perfect but I could side slip and do tight turns to where it opened up and I could do my normal slightly iffy telemarks again! The rest of the descent was fantastic - it's interesting to speculate whether my two companions who both ski excellenty 'had more fun' than me on the descent, just because they were shredding like real ski-bum dudes. They were definitely fast than me though and I guess their legs were less sore than mine the next day!

In reply to TobyA:


Was having just this conversation with someone the other day. For me, I get enormous pleasure out of skiing a run as technically well as I can which often isn't that fast. I can shred too but I get more out of doing it 'well' nowadays. Has only really changed this season though.

I find it a fascinating topic. Is a Premier League footballer, for example, having more fun than a bunch of mates in the park?

In reply to a crap climber:

One thing here is I would challenge the need to buy absolutely everything. Owning boots does make a difference as you can get them to fit properly however if you're only doing 1-2 weeks a year I would question the need to buy skis. You can hire top end ones for about £80 a week and a lot less for intermediate ones. You then don't have to pay for maintenance and can get skis that are right for the weeks snow conditions which is impossible with your own gear unless you own multiple skis. It's also expensive to get it out to the alps with extra baggage costs etc. Also with the touring vs downhill setup debate if you're only planning on doing a bit of touring you could hire the gear for this and buy a downhill setup. Have a look at the value of buying stuff before you jump in the deep end.
Also well worth getting some lessons so you learn a bit of technique. I've been skiing for years and going out with a guide for a few days a trip over the last couple of years has taught me more about how to ski off piste properly than all of the previous years just mucking around with friends.

You say this Alex as if it is easy to find a pair of skis that works straight off the bat. What on earth is a ‘top end’ pair of skis?
In the last year I’ve considered 30 different skis, and tried 12 pairs. They all flexed differently and provided different levels of support when I was tired depending on the length, the binding, my boot choice, the size of my rucsac, and the type of snow I was skiing.
Here in Cham there’s hardly a tour or a route approach that doesn’t feature a crevasse or two. And if you’re serious about big routes expect to ski out in the dark and in varied snow conditions (sun-affected soft snow in the day freezes pretty quickly at dusk).
So set up choice is not a trivial thing. There’s much more to consider than you suggest, and readers of this might want to consider this carefully as possible. Backcountry skiing is NOT like climbing.

John C

In reply to a crap climber:

One extra if slightly wimpy reason to go for touring gear straight away is to avoid lugging a stupidly heavy alpine set up around the resort and slipping around in plastic soled alpine boots on icy pavements!

In reply to Alex1:

i agree.. skiis are pricey if you are only using them once a year and conditions will dictate whether you have the right ones. I'd hire for a couple of years whilst you get good as you will change your mind on your best set up.
I've had Scarpa denalis for 6 seasons (1 to 3 trips a year).. best (only) boots for me.. i have skied hard in resort, toured long and ice climbed in them..great boots get them custom fitted and wear them all day long.
I definitely brought the wrong skis (Sal 1080s) and touring bindings (naxo) as i knew no better back then... but i still use them as they are adequate - even if they have no edges.

In reply to humpha44:

Being a bit of a gear freak and skiing spotter I have acquired a range of skis and tried loads more I can recommend.

For out and out touring Dynastar Ledgend 80. Light enough but also a good ski in most conditions.

For a bit of touring to get to powder etc and some use on piste Rossignol S80.

For an all mountain ski that is asy to ski in all conditions but too heavy to tour on Atomic Nomad.

If you want challenge yourself with a real advanced all mountain blaster Elan Magfire 12. They wiegh a ton and you have to be right on your game to make them work.

In reply to a crap climber:

buy downhill boots for now, I've done all my touring in my downhill boots andits fine to start with. By the time you've got better at skiing and done a bit of tyouring then you'll be able to figure out exactly wht you want. Enjoy!

In reply to a crap climber:

Flip-flops and a sledge works well for me....