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Seeing that the weather was warm and dry, yesterday morning, and fuelled by optimism and winter withdrawal, my wife and I decided to venture out to Royal Tunbridge Wells to seek some real sandstone instead of catching the tube to our regular plastic climbing haunt. We were equipped with a guide-book, static cordelette and handful of 'biners for setting top-rope anchors and prepared to climb just about anything just for the heck of it.
We chose High Rocks as our destination because it looked promising in the guide book and getting there was a simple matter of a train out of Canon Street and a bike ride down a winding country road. We suffered a minor detour when yours truly picked the wrong platform and we had to get out at Waterloo East, cycle back to Canon Street and have a second go at catching a train to Tonbridge but the ride from the station to High Rocks did turn out to be easy and very pretty. The presence of the rail preservation society and their steam locomotive made it even better.
Upon arrival, we were a little put off by the people running the joint. They charged us £10.00 each for entry and then told us we couldn't lock up our bikes because they had previously experienced "lamp-post damage" caused by climbers who had lost the keys to their locked up bikes.
Stubborn and unwilling to be deterred, we did not let this drive us away. We locked our bikes to a concrete post a little way down the public road from High Rocks and walked back to enter the fenced off 'pleasure garden'.
What we found, inside, was disgusting: condom wrappers and other litter on the ground, graffiti on every stone and, ultimately, nothing climbable.
We did put up some top ropes and attempted some climbs but, after getting thoroughly covered in green moss and failing to climb anything in decent style, we gave up and took to practising our very rusty self-rescue techniques. If prussiking is more fun than climbing, it's a sign that you're at the wrong crag.
On the way out, we had a go at a boulder problem near the park benches and actually finished it. This did a bit to ameliorate the anti-stoke.
We departed disappointed and not just a little annoyed at the cost. For High Rocks to warn us that the rock was not climbable would have been nice, if, perhaps, a little unrealistic, but for them to charge us for access to a 'garden' in such an unpleasant state was downright rude.
We chose High Rocks as our destination because it looked promising in the guide book and getting there was a simple matter of a train out of Canon Street and a bike ride down a winding country road. We suffered a minor detour when yours truly picked the wrong platform and we had to get out at Waterloo East, cycle back to Canon Street and have a second go at catching a train to Tonbridge but the ride from the station to High Rocks did turn out to be easy and very pretty. The presence of the rail preservation society and their steam locomotive made it even better.
Upon arrival, we were a little put off by the people running the joint. They charged us £10.00 each for entry and then told us we couldn't lock up our bikes because they had previously experienced "lamp-post damage" caused by climbers who had lost the keys to their locked up bikes.
Stubborn and unwilling to be deterred, we did not let this drive us away. We locked our bikes to a concrete post a little way down the public road from High Rocks and walked back to enter the fenced off 'pleasure garden'.
What we found, inside, was disgusting: condom wrappers and other litter on the ground, graffiti on every stone and, ultimately, nothing climbable.
We did put up some top ropes and attempted some climbs but, after getting thoroughly covered in green moss and failing to climb anything in decent style, we gave up and took to practising our very rusty self-rescue techniques. If prussiking is more fun than climbing, it's a sign that you're at the wrong crag.
On the way out, we had a go at a boulder problem near the park benches and actually finished it. This did a bit to ameliorate the anti-stoke.
We departed disappointed and not just a little annoyed at the cost. For High Rocks to warn us that the rock was not climbable would have been nice, if, perhaps, a little unrealistic, but for them to charge us for access to a 'garden' in such an unpleasant state was downright rude.
In reply to Xharlie:
Thanks for the tip, will avoid. I always find Bowles to be very pleasant? If you drive all the crags are very local to each other.
Thanks for the tip, will avoid. I always find Bowles to be very pleasant? If you drive all the crags are very local to each other.
In reply to Xharlie:
The people who run the place are not climbers and have no idea whether rock is or is not climbable. If you care another time to post on here first enquiring, people will be able to tell you whether or not the Rocks are in condition. This is most unlikely to be in March after an unusually wet winter, as experience will teach you if you climb more outdoors.
As to the condoms, the owners started charging precisely because users of the Rocks were leaving it in a mess. Not climbers, sure, but as I say, they don't know climbers from other users.
jcm
The people who run the place are not climbers and have no idea whether rock is or is not climbable. If you care another time to post on here first enquiring, people will be able to tell you whether or not the Rocks are in condition. This is most unlikely to be in March after an unusually wet winter, as experience will teach you if you climb more outdoors.
As to the condoms, the owners started charging precisely because users of the Rocks were leaving it in a mess. Not climbers, sure, but as I say, they don't know climbers from other users.
jcm
In reply to Xharlie:
High Rocks is one of the slowest drying crags in the area, it would be very unusual for much to be climbable away from the boulders at this time of year.
Bowles is the fastest drying crag followed by stone farm and possibly then bits of Harrisons.
High Rocks is one of the slowest drying crags in the area, it would be very unusual for much to be climbable away from the boulders at this time of year.
Bowles is the fastest drying crag followed by stone farm and possibly then bits of Harrisons.
Post edited at 11:49
In reply to Xharlie:
Why do you scoff at paying £10 to climb on someone's private property? Is your usual indoor climbing wall free?
You should go back when it is drier, HR is probably the best of the Sandstone crags
Why do you scoff at paying £10 to climb on someone's private property? Is your usual indoor climbing wall free?
You should go back when it is drier, HR is probably the best of the Sandstone crags
1
In reply to Xharlie:
Sorry you had a bad experience but as others have said, you really should have inquired in advance as to the condition of the rocks. This is your responsibility, it is not for the owners to tell whether or not the rock is in condition, they are not climbers.
As for the cost of entry, this is perfectly reasonable if you compare it with the cost of going to a wall with "artificial" rock.
After the winter we have had, you were really expecting too much if you had imagined it would be dry! Why on earth didn't you ask for a refund as soon as you saw the wet state of the climbs!? Then you could have gone to Bowles which is now in condition and only a short bike ride away.
The condition of the Sandstone crags has been discussed at length on this forum in recent weeks, and the cost of entry is an ongoing subject. Didn't you do any research?
As for the condoms, well that's unfortunate, I've never experienced much problem with litter over the years I've been going there. Why didn't you raise it with the owners rather than coming on here to slag the place off?
Sorry you had a bad experience but as others have said, you really should have inquired in advance as to the condition of the rocks. This is your responsibility, it is not for the owners to tell whether or not the rock is in condition, they are not climbers.
As for the cost of entry, this is perfectly reasonable if you compare it with the cost of going to a wall with "artificial" rock.
After the winter we have had, you were really expecting too much if you had imagined it would be dry! Why on earth didn't you ask for a refund as soon as you saw the wet state of the climbs!? Then you could have gone to Bowles which is now in condition and only a short bike ride away.
The condition of the Sandstone crags has been discussed at length on this forum in recent weeks, and the cost of entry is an ongoing subject. Didn't you do any research?
As for the condoms, well that's unfortunate, I've never experienced much problem with litter over the years I've been going there. Why didn't you raise it with the owners rather than coming on here to slag the place off?
In reply to Xharlie:
Highrocks is a great SS venue but takes a while to come into condition its also the wrong place for your first taste of southern sandstone. Get yourselves to either bowled or possibly stone farm
Highrocks is a great SS venue but takes a while to come into condition its also the wrong place for your first taste of southern sandstone. Get yourselves to either bowled or possibly stone farm
Post edited at 13:58
We paid the entrance fee so we clearly accepted it. Also, I did point out that forewarning of the rock condition was an unrealistic hope - I am not complaining about not receiving one.
If it had been a simple matter of mossy rock, this post would have been very short.
What I AM complaining about is the combination of the snotty reception we received when we asked where we should put our bikes and the fact that the place wasn't well kept - although the lamp-posts may have been pristine.
We didn't ask for a refund because we didn't want another awkward incident with the owners. We figured that people who refuse to accommodate cyclists probably wouldn't be the sort to give refunds.
If it had been a simple matter of mossy rock, this post would have been very short.
What I AM complaining about is the combination of the snotty reception we received when we asked where we should put our bikes and the fact that the place wasn't well kept - although the lamp-posts may have been pristine.
We didn't ask for a refund because we didn't want another awkward incident with the owners. We figured that people who refuse to accommodate cyclists probably wouldn't be the sort to give refunds.
In reply to Xharlie:
Can I add, practicing self rescue on soft sandstone is disgraceful. Did you read the code of practice in your guidebook?
Can I add, practicing self rescue on soft sandstone is disgraceful. Did you read the code of practice in your guidebook?
In reply to Xharlie:
Maybe another time it might be nicer to give them the benefit of doubt?
I hope you will try the rocks again when they have had ample time to dry out. I suspect this will be a few more weeks yet, post on here to check up with others.
It is a great venue with some of the best climbing on sandstone. I would add however, that it is the climbs above 5b which are generally the best, the lower grade climbs are often of poorer quality and some never really dry out.
Good luck.
Maybe another time it might be nicer to give them the benefit of doubt?
I hope you will try the rocks again when they have had ample time to dry out. I suspect this will be a few more weeks yet, post on here to check up with others.
It is a great venue with some of the best climbing on sandstone. I would add however, that it is the climbs above 5b which are generally the best, the lower grade climbs are often of poorer quality and some never really dry out.
Good luck.
In reply to Xharlie:
Go to high rocks annexe, smaller but more pleasant away From it all. And if same Lady you ask permission From shes both welcoming and Interesting.
Go to high rocks annexe, smaller but more pleasant away From it all. And if same Lady you ask permission From shes both welcoming and Interesting.
In reply to Choss:
Agreed, it's a smaller crag, but there's a nice selection of easier (and hard) climbs there. May be a bit licheny at the moment though!
The lady who owns them is, as you say, very nice and welcoming, but it is very important that climbers ask her permission first (I've never had it refused and she makes no charge). Full details of how to find her bungalow is in the Guide Book.
Agreed, it's a smaller crag, but there's a nice selection of easier (and hard) climbs there. May be a bit licheny at the moment though!
The lady who owns them is, as you say, very nice and welcoming, but it is very important that climbers ask her permission first (I've never had it refused and she makes no charge). Full details of how to find her bungalow is in the Guide Book.
In reply to XXXX:
Only our static anchor was in contact with the rock, nothing was running (moving) over it. We did read the code of practise and did not damage the rock.
The code of practise mandates that you rig a static anchor and hang your 'biner well over the edge of the sandstone so that your rope isn't running over it. It doesn't comment on what you may do with that anchor. Hanging on both strands of the rope through such an anchor does not contravene this in my opinion. Either change the rules (on the grounds that the code of practise is wrong) or keep your bigoted opinions to yourself.
Only our static anchor was in contact with the rock, nothing was running (moving) over it. We did read the code of practise and did not damage the rock.
The code of practise mandates that you rig a static anchor and hang your 'biner well over the edge of the sandstone so that your rope isn't running over it. It doesn't comment on what you may do with that anchor. Hanging on both strands of the rope through such an anchor does not contravene this in my opinion. Either change the rules (on the grounds that the code of practise is wrong) or keep your bigoted opinions to yourself.
Post edited at 13:35
In reply to Xharlie:
If you say so but, assuming that you have any care for the rock, it's a damned stupid thing to do.
> Only our static anchor was in contact with the rock, nothing was running (moving) over it. We did read the code of practise and did not damage the rock.
> The code of practise mandates that you rig a static anchor and hang your 'biner well over the edge of the sandstone so that your rope isn't running over it. It doesn't comment on what you may do with that anchor. Hanging on both strands of the rope through such an anchor does not contravene this in my opinion. Either change the rules (on the grounds that the code of practise is wrong) or keep your bigoted opinions to yourself.
If you say so but, assuming that you have any care for the rock, it's a damned stupid thing to do.
In reply to Xharlie:
How was my comment bigoted? The code of practice asks you not to abseil, lower or dog climbs. It doesn't specifically exclude self rescue but I can't think of any techniques that don't involve hanging from ropes, prussiking, lowering or abseiling. In fact abseiling is specifically banned at many crags including high rocks. Please don't do this, regardless of how well you've set up your anchors.
Please come back this way when it's dry, it's much better and less fragile.
How was my comment bigoted? The code of practice asks you not to abseil, lower or dog climbs. It doesn't specifically exclude self rescue but I can't think of any techniques that don't involve hanging from ropes, prussiking, lowering or abseiling. In fact abseiling is specifically banned at many crags including high rocks. Please don't do this, regardless of how well you've set up your anchors.
Please come back this way when it's dry, it's much better and less fragile.
In reply to XXXX:
Why would you not be aloud to abseil?
There would not be any moving ropes like lowering off
Why would you not be aloud to abseil?
There would not be any moving ropes like lowering off
In reply to Ban1:
Because abseiling has your feet in contact with the rock....and not as carefully-set foot placements for moving up on, but as moving balance points. Hence the likelihood of damaging the fragile SS rock.
I've seen (and spoken to) people abseiling at High Rocks where they were doing "army-style" descents "on the bounce" and pounding the hell out of the rock. You could actually see where they'd knocked a couple of edges off.
That's why abbing (and lowering off from the top of a climb) is banned, on SS.
Because abseiling has your feet in contact with the rock....and not as carefully-set foot placements for moving up on, but as moving balance points. Hence the likelihood of damaging the fragile SS rock.
I've seen (and spoken to) people abseiling at High Rocks where they were doing "army-style" descents "on the bounce" and pounding the hell out of the rock. You could actually see where they'd knocked a couple of edges off.
That's why abbing (and lowering off from the top of a climb) is banned, on SS.
In reply to Xharlie: you must remember that unlike the rest of the UK climbing on Southern Sandstone is treated as a religious experience and it's best to check beforehand and NEVER criticise.
In reply to Removed User:
Don't be such an idiot. It's extremely fragile rock and lots of people climb on it, therefore we need to take care.
Obviously it's impossible to tell if the OP was damaging the rock or not, so we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. But it's worth him remembering for next time...
> you must remember that unlike the rest of the UK climbing on Southern Sandstone is treated as a religious experience and it's best to check beforehand and NEVER criticise.
Don't be such an idiot. It's extremely fragile rock and lots of people climb on it, therefore we need to take care.
Obviously it's impossible to tell if the OP was damaging the rock or not, so we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. But it's worth him remembering for next time...
In reply to Removed User:
You mean like how the dry toolers on Millstone were welcomed in with open arms?
Back under your bridge
You mean like how the dry toolers on Millstone were welcomed in with open arms?
Back under your bridge
In reply to Xharlie:
High Rocks is well known as a rip off, not worth paying for, but I suppose having gone there you didn't have much choice. I remember the first time my brother and I came across the charging we just went home muttering but we didn't come from far. Frankly I've never understood why anyone does "climb" on this soft sandstone... nor on an indoor wall for that matter but at least they are not slimy
High Rocks is well known as a rip off, not worth paying for, but I suppose having gone there you didn't have much choice. I remember the first time my brother and I came across the charging we just went home muttering but we didn't come from far. Frankly I've never understood why anyone does "climb" on this soft sandstone... nor on an indoor wall for that matter but at least they are not slimy
He's probably caused less damage than most of those criticising him.
We have no idea how he's gone about his self rescue practice, and generally this practice is no bad thing. Prussiking up a rope isn't necessarily any worse to the rock than top-roping. I'm sure he did it in a very clean manner. Benefit of the doubt given.
I'd probably give it one more hit in better weather. Sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience.
The people at high rocks have a long and checkered history with climbers, there is no feeling lost between the two parties. Other climbers have aggravated the owners in the past by trespassing and damagine fences. They are of course very snotty towards climbers, and don't really want you there. They are more of a functions place and climbers are just about barely tolerated. However, there's not a whole lot of choice, and plenty of climbers can swallow it because of the lack outdoor climbing in the South East. Basically, don't do anything to jeopardise access. Go to one of the other crags in the area that aren't so hostile and go north at weekends.
It might be shit and a rip off, you may also get snotty horrible service from the staff for reasons unbeknownst to you, but they kind of have the luxury of demand. Access is delicate, and it's closing would be a massive hit to the climbable outdoor rock in the South East, so that's why people are very defensive of the place.
Post edited at 17:41
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
Yeah, but Bruce, to be fair, you're crap. The decent routes at High Rocks start at 5b, and there's only one of those. Most of the good ones are 6b. If you'd done those, you'd understand why people climb on this stuff.
jcm
Yeah, but Bruce, to be fair, you're crap. The decent routes at High Rocks start at 5b, and there's only one of those. Most of the good ones are 6b. If you'd done those, you'd understand why people climb on this stuff.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I may be now but I wasn't always... Southern Sandstone is rubbish compared to just about any other kind of rock, I used to live nearby in Sussex so we went there from time to time. Unless things have changed since I was last there half the climbing's done on top ropes so tight you could play a tune on them. Small slimy boulders and edges in muddy woods may be the taste of some but it's wicked to encourage normal people to waste their time and money going there... IMO.
I may be now but I wasn't always... Southern Sandstone is rubbish compared to just about any other kind of rock, I used to live nearby in Sussex so we went there from time to time. Unless things have changed since I was last there half the climbing's done on top ropes so tight you could play a tune on them. Small slimy boulders and edges in muddy woods may be the taste of some but it's wicked to encourage normal people to waste their time and money going there... IMO.
In reply to Xharlie:
Move up to West Yorkshire, you could have a similar experience at Shipley Glen but without the £10 charge.
> What we found, inside, was disgusting: condom wrappers and other litter on the ground, graffiti on every stone and, ultimately, nothing climbable.
Move up to West Yorkshire, you could have a similar experience at Shipley Glen but without the £10 charge.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
>Southern Sandstone is rubbish compared to just about any other kind of rock,
Well, on a summer evening in Kent we're not comparing it to other types of rock. We're comparing it to not going climbing at all.
But in any case, I'm afraid if you think Krait Arete is rubbish compared to anything then you're just wrong.
>Unless things have changed since I was last there half the climbing's done on top ropes so tight you could play a tune on them.
Speak for yourself. I've never seen anything of the kind.
jcm
>Southern Sandstone is rubbish compared to just about any other kind of rock,
Well, on a summer evening in Kent we're not comparing it to other types of rock. We're comparing it to not going climbing at all.
But in any case, I'm afraid if you think Krait Arete is rubbish compared to anything then you're just wrong.
>Unless things have changed since I was last there half the climbing's done on top ropes so tight you could play a tune on them.
Speak for yourself. I've never seen anything of the kind.
jcm
Post edited at 23:17
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
With respect I think Southern Sandstone is unique. Climbing there is different and there are some amazing test pieces. Personally High Rocks is my favourite. And the rules for sandstone need to be respected.
With respect I think Southern Sandstone is unique. Climbing there is different and there are some amazing test pieces. Personally High Rocks is my favourite. And the rules for sandstone need to be respected.
In reply to FreshSlate:
Unless his self rescue involved levitation it broke the code of practice and by default jeapordised access in the future. There shouldn't be any mixed messages. Don't abseil. Don't lower from the top. Don't dog or work routes on top rope. Please.
Unless his self rescue involved levitation it broke the code of practice and by default jeapordised access in the future. There shouldn't be any mixed messages. Don't abseil. Don't lower from the top. Don't dog or work routes on top rope. Please.
In reply to XXXX:
Has highrocks banned the practice of self rescue now? They let him in whilst the rock was still damp, and potentially fragile. We're talking about climber enforced preferences and a grey area of that too. He hasn't endangered access, because he's not broken any of high rocks rules. He's obviously new to this SS thing but he's clearly read up on the guidelines before going, there's definitely ambiguity here, that if you like you can write to the BMC and have them put out some revised guidelines to clear it up. But in the meantime, cut the guy a bit of slack. It's not at all obvious that one cannot prussik up a static rope, having taken care with the setup. If you can climb the rock, you can climb a rope with equal or less damage. Hardly comparable to dry tooling the stuff as someone suggested before.
> Unless his self rescue involved levitation it broke the code of practice and by default jeapordised access in the future. There shouldn't be any mixed messages. Don't abseil. Don't lower from the top. Don't dog or work routes on top rope. Please.
Has highrocks banned the practice of self rescue now? They let him in whilst the rock was still damp, and potentially fragile. We're talking about climber enforced preferences and a grey area of that too. He hasn't endangered access, because he's not broken any of high rocks rules. He's obviously new to this SS thing but he's clearly read up on the guidelines before going, there's definitely ambiguity here, that if you like you can write to the BMC and have them put out some revised guidelines to clear it up. But in the meantime, cut the guy a bit of slack. It's not at all obvious that one cannot prussik up a static rope, having taken care with the setup. If you can climb the rock, you can climb a rope with equal or less damage. Hardly comparable to dry tooling the stuff as someone suggested before.
Post edited at 01:45
In reply to Jon Stewart:
... If you enjoy Shipley then get t'Vale... High Rocks 'will' seem like a pleasure garden then...
> Move up to West Yorkshire, you could have a similar experience at Shipley Glen but without the £10 charge.
... If you enjoy Shipley then get t'Vale... High Rocks 'will' seem like a pleasure garden then...
In reply to Xharlie:
I solo without chalk whenever I'm on a family visit to the area (not a lot of luck this year) but the pious statements I read on here bear no relation to what I see, last summer Eric Clapton could have got a good tune out of the twanging ropes that appalled me at Harrisons, don't just write about about it do something if you want to protect the rock!
I solo without chalk whenever I'm on a family visit to the area (not a lot of luck this year) but the pious statements I read on here bear no relation to what I see, last summer Eric Clapton could have got a good tune out of the twanging ropes that appalled me at Harrisons, don't just write about about it do something if you want to protect the rock!
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