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Due to financial difficulties, the main sponsor of the GB Bouldering team has pulled out at the last minute, leaving them £8,000 short of the cash they need to travel to the competitions.
Here is how you can help...
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68820
In reply to UKC News:
17 people need to raise 8000 pounds...and they start a national fundraising campaign? That's less than 500 each.
17 people need to raise 8000 pounds...and they start a national fundraising campaign? That's less than 500 each.
In reply to andrewyoung99:
Pedantry I know but it's more than 500 pounds each. I don't see the problem with our climbers getting a bit of support from their community. I enjoy watching the IFSC bouldering champs on the internet, i find many of the climbers inspirational and very pleasant when I have met them. Perhaps they do not have 500 pounds each? Perhaps they have contributed what they could afford and it has fallen short? There are clearly some big donations on the site judging by amount raised and number of donors. Maybe that was them.
Pedantry I know but it's more than 500 pounds each. I don't see the problem with our climbers getting a bit of support from their community. I enjoy watching the IFSC bouldering champs on the internet, i find many of the climbers inspirational and very pleasant when I have met them. Perhaps they do not have 500 pounds each? Perhaps they have contributed what they could afford and it has fallen short? There are clearly some big donations on the site judging by amount raised and number of donors. Maybe that was them.
In reply to Oceanrower:
Yup, that would be me. Mea Culpa, I was tired. the rest of my points still stand whether the amount is 500+ or £470.
Yup, that would be me. Mea Culpa, I was tired. the rest of my points still stand whether the amount is 500+ or £470.
In reply to andrewyoung99:
This year to send one athlete to all 8 World Cup events will cost close to £5000. Each athlete will still have to self fund a hell of a lot more than £500 for the competitions they do. The amount they have asked for is just to recoup what Lonsdale China was suppose to give the team until going bankrupt earlier this year. After hearing this news many of athletes were going to drop out of the competitions as they simply couldn't afford it. Whether you pledge anything or not this is great way to raise money and many national teams have done it before. They could have asked for more money but they decided not to be greedy and just ask for what the team has lost this year. These guys train damn hard, harder than I think most people realise and many of them on top of working a full time job or going to university.
If you don't want to pledge then that is your decision but don't slander the process that they are going through as it is a tried and tested method.
This year to send one athlete to all 8 World Cup events will cost close to £5000. Each athlete will still have to self fund a hell of a lot more than £500 for the competitions they do. The amount they have asked for is just to recoup what Lonsdale China was suppose to give the team until going bankrupt earlier this year. After hearing this news many of athletes were going to drop out of the competitions as they simply couldn't afford it. Whether you pledge anything or not this is great way to raise money and many national teams have done it before. They could have asked for more money but they decided not to be greedy and just ask for what the team has lost this year. These guys train damn hard, harder than I think most people realise and many of them on top of working a full time job or going to university.
If you don't want to pledge then that is your decision but don't slander the process that they are going through as it is a tried and tested method.
In reply to davidmason85:
The way I look at it, I watch the IFSC live streams for free and went to watch the CWIF, which was also free so happy to contribute, seems good value compared to costs of watching other sports.
Also, think its nice to feel directly involved with the British team, even on a small scale. If you look at the state of football, where i personally feel so detached from the team I once supported, this makes me feel like I am making a real difference to the success of the team I now support.
The way I look at it, I watch the IFSC live streams for free and went to watch the CWIF, which was also free so happy to contribute, seems good value compared to costs of watching other sports.
Also, think its nice to feel directly involved with the British team, even on a small scale. If you look at the state of football, where i personally feel so detached from the team I once supported, this makes me feel like I am making a real difference to the success of the team I now support.
In reply to mhawk:
That's great and I think so many people feel this way. Apparently it has had one of the most successful first 24 hours of any crowd funding scheme so it shows everyones generosity and willingness which is incredible.
I to am a massive fan of mainstream sport and the amount of money these guys get dwarfs anything that climbers, whether full-time athletes or not, receive. The athletes on the GB team train so hard and put so much effort in that it would be a real shame if they didn't get to go and compete.
Thanks everyone for the support!
That's great and I think so many people feel this way. Apparently it has had one of the most successful first 24 hours of any crowd funding scheme so it shows everyones generosity and willingness which is incredible.
I to am a massive fan of mainstream sport and the amount of money these guys get dwarfs anything that climbers, whether full-time athletes or not, receive. The athletes on the GB team train so hard and put so much effort in that it would be a real shame if they didn't get to go and compete.
Thanks everyone for the support!
In reply to UKC News:
Nice idea and good to see they're making it apparently.
However I wonder what the return on investment is for the backers. Not talking about money of course, but sponsors get a load of publicity for their investment, will the climbers mention the funding community as much as they do for their mainstream sponsors? Will they have a little patch on their t-shirts saying "crowdfunded by awesome people"?
Nice idea and good to see they're making it apparently.
However I wonder what the return on investment is for the backers. Not talking about money of course, but sponsors get a load of publicity for their investment, will the climbers mention the funding community as much as they do for their mainstream sponsors? Will they have a little patch on their t-shirts saying "crowdfunded by awesome people"?
In reply to drolex:
Ye syou can choose to have something (different dependent upon how much you invest). For a tenner it is a postcard saying thanks or something else. three hundred odd pounds gets a coaching session. Or like me you can choose not to have the 'reward' for your sponsership and see it as a subscription for watching the team compete.
Ye syou can choose to have something (different dependent upon how much you invest). For a tenner it is a postcard saying thanks or something else. three hundred odd pounds gets a coaching session. Or like me you can choose not to have the 'reward' for your sponsership and see it as a subscription for watching the team compete.
In reply to puppythedog:
I have seen, but that's not what I mean. From what I have seen on other crowdfunded projects, it happens relatively frequently that fundees take the money and tend to forget where it came from (see Oculus Rift recently). Funders shouldn't expect a real return on investment, of course, that's not the goal, but should be remembered.
Not saying that GB bouldering team will do anything wrong, they seem like very decent people. But I'd like to see them treat the anonymous funders like any other sponsor (i.e. give them publicity, even if only as a community).
I have seen, but that's not what I mean. From what I have seen on other crowdfunded projects, it happens relatively frequently that fundees take the money and tend to forget where it came from (see Oculus Rift recently). Funders shouldn't expect a real return on investment, of course, that's not the goal, but should be remembered.
Not saying that GB bouldering team will do anything wrong, they seem like very decent people. But I'd like to see them treat the anonymous funders like any other sponsor (i.e. give them publicity, even if only as a community).
In reply to UKC News:
Why does the team rely on charity to pay for their hobby? If they can't find sponsors then why wouldn't they pay their own costs like the rest of us? No one forces them to do this activity, which is when all's said and done essentially an ego-trip, and there must be hundreds of more deserving causes in the world.
Why does the team rely on charity to pay for their hobby? If they can't find sponsors then why wouldn't they pay their own costs like the rest of us? No one forces them to do this activity, which is when all's said and done essentially an ego-trip, and there must be hundreds of more deserving causes in the world.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
They don't rely on charity. If you read the pledge the team members will be doing a lot of self funding even if they raise this money through crowd funding. Also we did have a sponsor but they went bankrupt and we are in the process of looking for a new one for next year. It is slightly more than a hobby for these guys, it's their job. They train 2-3 times a day, plus everything else that goes with being an athlete representing your country. They are as committed as the England rugby team or Bradley Wiggins but the sport just isn't as commercial.
You don't have to donate if you don't think it is a worthy cause but many do as the crowd funding reflects.
Thanks
They don't rely on charity. If you read the pledge the team members will be doing a lot of self funding even if they raise this money through crowd funding. Also we did have a sponsor but they went bankrupt and we are in the process of looking for a new one for next year. It is slightly more than a hobby for these guys, it's their job. They train 2-3 times a day, plus everything else that goes with being an athlete representing your country. They are as committed as the England rugby team or Bradley Wiggins but the sport just isn't as commercial.
You don't have to donate if you don't think it is a worthy cause but many do as the crowd funding reflects.
Thanks
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
They don't. They rely on sponsorship as many sportsmen and women do. Sponsorship has been pulled right at the last minute and this crowd funding is a last ditch attempt. I'm proud that we have a bouldering team that represents us that is hard working, passionate and very good at what they do.
I think referring to what they do as a 'hobby' is pretty damn patronising, really.
They don't. They rely on sponsorship as many sportsmen and women do. Sponsorship has been pulled right at the last minute and this crowd funding is a last ditch attempt. I'm proud that we have a bouldering team that represents us that is hard working, passionate and very good at what they do.
I think referring to what they do as a 'hobby' is pretty damn patronising, really.
Post edited at 13:13
In reply to alooker:
Please don't respond to this guy. Fairly simple, if you want to help support then do, if you don't, well you get the picture. Sure mr hooker understands this simple point, he is just trying to cause an argument where there is none. I fail to understand why some folk want to give money so footballers can be paid millions, but hey, it's their money and choice.
Best of luck to the team!
Please don't respond to this guy. Fairly simple, if you want to help support then do, if you don't, well you get the picture. Sure mr hooker understands this simple point, he is just trying to cause an argument where there is none. I fail to understand why some folk want to give money so footballers can be paid millions, but hey, it's their money and choice.
Best of luck to the team!
In reply to mhawk:
You are correct but thanks for the support alooker and to everyone who is being so generous. It's great to know you value the team and the effort they put in.
You are correct but thanks for the support alooker and to everyone who is being so generous. It's great to know you value the team and the effort they put in.
In reply to drolex:
Perhaps a thank you letter at the end to everyone with a recount of the season? But then I personally would not want any of the little money i gave to spent on postage. Maybe a UKC article at the end of the season thanking respndants?
Anyway, I'm only really responding to bump the thread, god I miss the bump thread.
Perhaps a thank you letter at the end to everyone with a recount of the season? But then I personally would not want any of the little money i gave to spent on postage. Maybe a UKC article at the end of the season thanking respndants?
Anyway, I'm only really responding to bump the thread, god I miss the bump thread.
In reply to davidmason85:
Damnit! You managed to make me support you. If you do better than France in the competition I will have to cut a few of my phalanges to redeem myself.
Best of luck.
Damnit! You managed to make me support you. If you do better than France in the competition I will have to cut a few of my phalanges to redeem myself.
Best of luck.
In reply to davidmason85:
It would be a desperate shame to see that happen. The effort the team (and those involved with the team) put into their training is pretty inspiring. I've just chipped in a few quid, very happy to be able to offer a wee bit of support. :O)
> After hearing this news many of athletes were going to drop out of the competitions as they simply couldn't afford it.
It would be a desperate shame to see that happen. The effort the team (and those involved with the team) put into their training is pretty inspiring. I've just chipped in a few quid, very happy to be able to offer a wee bit of support. :O)
In reply to davidmason85:
So obviously I'm happy to contribute (my daughter is a very keen young climber, so a poster of Mina is going take pride of place on her wall).
But now that the total has been surpassed, do you have any plans on what to do with the surplus? Essentially, to keep the pledges coming in, people need to believe that they're contributing to a cause of equal significance to this one. What can you promise to do with the surplus to keep interest up?
(Delighted by the response, btw)
Martin
So obviously I'm happy to contribute (my daughter is a very keen young climber, so a poster of Mina is going take pride of place on her wall).
But now that the total has been surpassed, do you have any plans on what to do with the surplus? Essentially, to keep the pledges coming in, people need to believe that they're contributing to a cause of equal significance to this one. What can you promise to do with the surplus to keep interest up?
(Delighted by the response, btw)
Martin
In reply to maisie:
I imagine that now the target has been reached that things will slow down a little. It has been a frantic 24 hours! I reckon Mina has had over 200 emails in that time! Am sure the poster will look great on your daughters wall.
The £8000 plus the money we get from Sport England will get 3 team members part funded to all events and 7 members part funded to European events. Any surplus will just go towards helping the athletes a little more or enabling us to send more athletes to events, although we can only send 4 men and 6 women to each event anyway.
I imagine that now the target has been reached that things will slow down a little. It has been a frantic 24 hours! I reckon Mina has had over 200 emails in that time! Am sure the poster will look great on your daughters wall.
The £8000 plus the money we get from Sport England will get 3 team members part funded to all events and 7 members part funded to European events. Any surplus will just go towards helping the athletes a little more or enabling us to send more athletes to events, although we can only send 4 men and 6 women to each event anyway.
In reply to davidmason85:
Yes, I too think it's likely that it will slow down. But now might be a good time to keep up the pressure and at least try to slow the drop-off. You need a strategy to keep people onside; not necessarily with crowdfunding, but perhaps a chance to build a small rainy day fund?
Martin
Yes, I too think it's likely that it will slow down. But now might be a good time to keep up the pressure and at least try to slow the drop-off. You need a strategy to keep people onside; not necessarily with crowdfunding, but perhaps a chance to build a small rainy day fund?
Martin
In reply to maisie:
This has been debated between the team management and we have decided not to go with this approach. Although most people have been very positive about this scheme there have been critics also. We don't want to appear to be greedy which is why we asked for £8000 in the first place; this just covers what we lost rather than what we need. As an example to send a full quota of athletes, fully funded to all the WC's this year would cost around £50000 I think. We will not be sending a full quota to all events due to the massive amount of self funding and most athletes just can't afford this.
However the biggest positive from the crowd funding, except the generosity of the climbing community is that some potential sponsors for future years have come out of the woodwork and hopefully more will show interest. Crowd funding has been phenomenal this year but it isn't a sustainable way to fund a GB team.
Thanks again to everyone and their positive attitudes
This has been debated between the team management and we have decided not to go with this approach. Although most people have been very positive about this scheme there have been critics also. We don't want to appear to be greedy which is why we asked for £8000 in the first place; this just covers what we lost rather than what we need. As an example to send a full quota of athletes, fully funded to all the WC's this year would cost around £50000 I think. We will not be sending a full quota to all events due to the massive amount of self funding and most athletes just can't afford this.
However the biggest positive from the crowd funding, except the generosity of the climbing community is that some potential sponsors for future years have come out of the woodwork and hopefully more will show interest. Crowd funding has been phenomenal this year but it isn't a sustainable way to fund a GB team.
Thanks again to everyone and their positive attitudes
In reply to drolex:
Really? Was this an April fools?
There are rewards available, but if you're donating for a reward I think the general point is being missed.
Good luck guys, seems the donations have gone better than expected. Excellent news.
> Not saying that GB bouldering team will do anything wrong, they seem like very decent people. But I'd like to see them treat the anonymous funders like any other sponsor (i.e. give them publicity, even if only as a community).
Really? Was this an April fools?
There are rewards available, but if you're donating for a reward I think the general point is being missed.
Good luck guys, seems the donations have gone better than expected. Excellent news.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
No one is forcing you to read this thread, pay any money or post a comment. Yet here we are.
> Why does the team rely on charity to pay for their hobby? If they can't find sponsors then why wouldn't they pay their own costs like the rest of us? No one forces them to do this activity, which is when all's said and done essentially an ego-trip, and there must be hundreds of more deserving causes in the world.
No one is forcing you to read this thread, pay any money or post a comment. Yet here we are.
In reply to davidmason85:
Fair enough, that's a very well-reasoned argument, and I take on board what you're saying about not being greedy.
I'm delighted for the positive result, though - whilst competition climbing has never been my bag (I'm old enough to remember a time when it wasn't just part of the everyday scenery), I have great respect for the people who go out representing the UK. And it pains me to see just how little - two days of Shrek's wages - it takes to fund the youth team, and yet it's all on you guys.
But great news on the pledges.
Martin
Fair enough, that's a very well-reasoned argument, and I take on board what you're saying about not being greedy.
I'm delighted for the positive result, though - whilst competition climbing has never been my bag (I'm old enough to remember a time when it wasn't just part of the everyday scenery), I have great respect for the people who go out representing the UK. And it pains me to see just how little - two days of Shrek's wages - it takes to fund the youth team, and yet it's all on you guys.
But great news on the pledges.
Martin
In reply to davidmason85:
Sorry, i appreciate what you are saying, but you cant describe something that requires charitable donations to allow you to do it as a 'job' or proffesion. I know they live and train like profesional athletes and deservidly gain impressive results, but climbing isnt a profesional sport and competition climbing cant be described as a job.
anyway good luck to them and if people are willing to support them then thats fine
Sorry, i appreciate what you are saying, but you cant describe something that requires charitable donations to allow you to do it as a 'job' or proffesion. I know they live and train like profesional athletes and deservidly gain impressive results, but climbing isnt a profesional sport and competition climbing cant be described as a job.
anyway good luck to them and if people are willing to support them then thats fine
In reply to Webster:
Probably worth having a think about that statement...
> Sorry, i appreciate what you are saying, but you cant describe something that requires charitable donations to allow you to do it as a 'job' or proffesion.
Probably worth having a think about that statement...
In reply to Webster:
Total bollocks. The GB Bouldering team is not a charity, any more than the thousands of startups on Kickstarter are, or Wikipedia, all of which rely on donations from interested members of the public to keep going. If you don't like it, don't donate. You're not losing anything because other people think it's worthwhile.
> Sorry, i appreciate what you are saying, but you cant describe something that requires charitable donations to allow you to do it as a 'job' or proffesion.
Total bollocks. The GB Bouldering team is not a charity, any more than the thousands of startups on Kickstarter are, or Wikipedia, all of which rely on donations from interested members of the public to keep going. If you don't like it, don't donate. You're not losing anything because other people think it's worthwhile.
In reply to cap'nChino:
Once again I am not talking about a material reward. Obviously anybody donating is expecting a reward of some sort - even if it is only seeing the team participating in the world cup events. It's always a trade-off, you don't give something for nothing. And then if the community acts as a sponsor, is it really hard to understand that it should be treated as a sponsor?
> There are rewards available, but if you're donating for a reward I think the general point is being missed.
Once again I am not talking about a material reward. Obviously anybody donating is expecting a reward of some sort - even if it is only seeing the team participating in the world cup events. It's always a trade-off, you don't give something for nothing. And then if the community acts as a sponsor, is it really hard to understand that it should be treated as a sponsor?
In reply to drolex:
Eh?
We're not sponsors. Sponsors are (in the case of the missing sponsor), a company who wishes to advertise or create publicity on the back of the GB bouldering team. What exactly do we wish to advertise? Our money giving services? We're definitely not a sponsor in that sense, I may sponsor a donkey in Africa, and whilst I appreciate the post cards I get off Sam (how he sends them I do not know) I do not expect him to wear a T-shirt saying "sponsored by Mr r0x0r".
We're not sponsoring for the sake of publicity as a commercial sponsor does, (or at least I am not), I think most have their own private reasons very far away from expecting 'publicity in return' unless that is explicitly offered and they've paid the amount for that just as some have for guidbooks/beanies etc.
> Once again I am not talking about a material reward. Obviously anybody donating is expecting a reward of some sort - even if it is only seeing the team participating in the world cup events. It's always a trade-off, you don't give something for nothing. And then if the community acts as a sponsor, is it really hard to understand that it should be treated as a sponsor?
Eh?
We're not sponsors. Sponsors are (in the case of the missing sponsor), a company who wishes to advertise or create publicity on the back of the GB bouldering team. What exactly do we wish to advertise? Our money giving services? We're definitely not a sponsor in that sense, I may sponsor a donkey in Africa, and whilst I appreciate the post cards I get off Sam (how he sends them I do not know) I do not expect him to wear a T-shirt saying "sponsored by Mr r0x0r".
We're not sponsoring for the sake of publicity as a commercial sponsor does, (or at least I am not), I think most have their own private reasons very far away from expecting 'publicity in return' unless that is explicitly offered and they've paid the amount for that just as some have for guidbooks/beanies etc.
Post edited at 15:49
In reply to FreshSlate:
I would pay good money to sponsor a donkey to wear a T-Shirt.
> I may sponsor a donkey in Africa, and whilst I appreciate the post cards I get off Sam (how he sends them I do not know) I do not expect him to wear a T-shirt saying "sponsored by Mr r0x0r".
I would pay good money to sponsor a donkey to wear a T-Shirt.
In reply to cap'nChino:
Do you want me to donate for posting on the thread then? We get so many begging letters these days what's wrong with saying this, especially for such a dubious cause as bringing competitions into climbing?
> No one is forcing you to read this thread, pay any money or post a comment. Yet here we are.
Do you want me to donate for posting on the thread then? We get so many begging letters these days what's wrong with saying this, especially for such a dubious cause as bringing competitions into climbing?
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
Bruce - do you know that 2014 is the 25th anniversary of the 1st ever climbing World Cup.
So stop talking dross, competitions are well established and are here to stay.
Bruce - do you know that 2014 is the 25th anniversary of the 1st ever climbing World Cup.
So stop talking dross, competitions are well established and are here to stay.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
What the f*ck is a letter?
Anyway, I presume you'll be off to the 'more deserving cause forum' instead of here.
> We get so many begging letters these days...
What the f*ck is a letter?
Anyway, I presume you'll be off to the 'more deserving cause forum' instead of here.
In reply to midomidi2013:
Typo methinks =-O
> Good luck getting the dose gang.
Typo methinks =-O
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
That's your opinion and you are welcome to it but please accord me the same. Whatever you may think it is still very much a minority activity despite the commercial pressure. For the majority of climbers climbing is still an enjoyable pass-time involving more than just brute force and technical ability, even less so "competition" and as for "representing the UK" I thought that sort of thing went out of fashion in the thirties.
So each to his own but don't tell others what to think or say.
> So stop talking dross, competitions are well established and are here to stay.
That's your opinion and you are welcome to it but please accord me the same. Whatever you may think it is still very much a minority activity despite the commercial pressure. For the majority of climbers climbing is still an enjoyable pass-time involving more than just brute force and technical ability, even less so "competition" and as for "representing the UK" I thought that sort of thing went out of fashion in the thirties.
So each to his own but don't tell others what to think or say.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
You are correct. Bumbling up Severes is the majority activity. On the other hand headpointing E10's, onsighting E8's, redpointing 9a, bouldering 8B+, super alpinism and more direct forms of competition against the best in the world are all minority activities. High achievement by definition always is a minority activity.
> That's your opinion and you are welcome to it but please accord me the same. Whatever you may think it is still very much a minority activity despite the commercial pressure. For the majority of climbers climbing is still an enjoyable pass-time involving more than just brute force and technical ability, even less so "competition" and as for "representing the UK" I thought that sort of thing went out of fashion in the thirties.
> So each to his own but don't tell others what to think or say.
You are correct. Bumbling up Severes is the majority activity. On the other hand headpointing E10's, onsighting E8's, redpointing 9a, bouldering 8B+, super alpinism and more direct forms of competition against the best in the world are all minority activities. High achievement by definition always is a minority activity.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
God i wish ukc had a button to block certain peoples boring old drivel. Why are you even on this thread if you aren't interested it comp climbing, or pushing the sport forward. Just because you probably can't wipe your arse without the help of someone else. Things are moving on, deal with it.
God i wish ukc had a button to block certain peoples boring old drivel. Why are you even on this thread if you aren't interested it comp climbing, or pushing the sport forward. Just because you probably can't wipe your arse without the help of someone else. Things are moving on, deal with it.
In reply to shark:
True but that's not my point which is encouraging those who want to turn climbing into a competitive sport, at what ever level of competence, are not doing it a service. The level of anger and inability to discuss the subject doesn't exactly convince either... finally putting alpinism alongside bouldering competitions is like comparing cheese and chalk, and a visit to Chamonix would convince anyone that even high level alpinism is hardly a minority activity.
> High achievement by definition always is a minority activity.
True but that's not my point which is encouraging those who want to turn climbing into a competitive sport, at what ever level of competence, are not doing it a service. The level of anger and inability to discuss the subject doesn't exactly convince either... finally putting alpinism alongside bouldering competitions is like comparing cheese and chalk, and a visit to Chamonix would convince anyone that even high level alpinism is hardly a minority activity.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
High level alpinism is mincing around in the snow.
> high level alpinism is hardly a minority activity.
High level alpinism is mincing around in the snow.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
Bruce, you've clearly never been anywhere near a bouldering competition, they have the most positive atmosphere imaginable, everybody wants everybody to do as well as they can. I've been to and competed in a few small-scale local affairs and can honestly say i don't remember anyone having a bad time. I've spectated at larger scale ones and the cheers when a competitor succeeds have nothing to do with where they're from and everything to do with how hard they tried. Honestly I can't see how the existence of such thoroughly enjoyed events can take away from the enjoyment of whatever it is you do apart from come here and moan.
Regarding levels of anger, you bowled in here to a place you clearly know nothing about and started slagging it off when it's something for which people care deeply. The fact that it took a mere day to raise the missing funds is testament to that, of course people will react badly.
Regarding your comments about going to chamonix to see if high level alpinism is a minority activity, well if you go to one of the many climbing world cups you'll see that loads of people compete, and care deeply about competitions as well. Conversely If i go stand on the Hollandish coast it doesn't mean that neither alpinism or bouldering competitions exist.
Regarding your comments about people being allowed to hold opinions, you are of course free to think whatever you like, I am free to hold all sorts of opinions on the unattractiveness of your mother (I do of course hold no such opinions) but if I were to loudly tell these to you (whether or not they were true) it would make me an arsehole. Even more so as I have absolutely no idea what your mother was like, as you clearly have no idea what bouldering competitions are like.
As such I'm sorry to say that my current opinion of you is that you are at worse a bigoted shit stirrer or at best genuinely obtuse.
Struggling to decide.
> The level of anger and inability to discuss the subject doesn't exactly convince either... finally putting alpinism alongside bouldering competitions is like comparing cheese and chalk, and a visit to Chamonix would convince anyone that even high level alpinism is hardly a minority activity.
Bruce, you've clearly never been anywhere near a bouldering competition, they have the most positive atmosphere imaginable, everybody wants everybody to do as well as they can. I've been to and competed in a few small-scale local affairs and can honestly say i don't remember anyone having a bad time. I've spectated at larger scale ones and the cheers when a competitor succeeds have nothing to do with where they're from and everything to do with how hard they tried. Honestly I can't see how the existence of such thoroughly enjoyed events can take away from the enjoyment of whatever it is you do apart from come here and moan.
Regarding levels of anger, you bowled in here to a place you clearly know nothing about and started slagging it off when it's something for which people care deeply. The fact that it took a mere day to raise the missing funds is testament to that, of course people will react badly.
Regarding your comments about going to chamonix to see if high level alpinism is a minority activity, well if you go to one of the many climbing world cups you'll see that loads of people compete, and care deeply about competitions as well. Conversely If i go stand on the Hollandish coast it doesn't mean that neither alpinism or bouldering competitions exist.
Regarding your comments about people being allowed to hold opinions, you are of course free to think whatever you like, I am free to hold all sorts of opinions on the unattractiveness of your mother (I do of course hold no such opinions) but if I were to loudly tell these to you (whether or not they were true) it would make me an arsehole. Even more so as I have absolutely no idea what your mother was like, as you clearly have no idea what bouldering competitions are like.
As such I'm sorry to say that my current opinion of you is that you are at worse a bigoted shit stirrer or at best genuinely obtuse.
Struggling to decide.
Post edited at 23:28
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
I've never understood the fear climbers have regarding competition, or rather formal competition, cos climbing has always been competitive. Magazines in the 80s told us it would be the end of climbing as we know it. Well it hasn't.
My other mountain sports, skiing and biking, have had competitions from their earliest days. Does this stop me going out with my mates and enjoying ourselves. Yes there is sometimes a competitive element, but also supportive and safety conscious.
If you don't want to support competitive climbing then ignore it. But why seek to undermine the enjoyment others get from it ?
> True but that's not my point which is encouraging those who want to turn climbing into a competitive sport, at what ever level of competence, are not doing it a service.
I've never understood the fear climbers have regarding competition, or rather formal competition, cos climbing has always been competitive. Magazines in the 80s told us it would be the end of climbing as we know it. Well it hasn't.
My other mountain sports, skiing and biking, have had competitions from their earliest days. Does this stop me going out with my mates and enjoying ourselves. Yes there is sometimes a competitive element, but also supportive and safety conscious.
If you don't want to support competitive climbing then ignore it. But why seek to undermine the enjoyment others get from it ?
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
And that is the whole point: more climbers eating cheese does not mean less climbers using chalk. They are independent, just like bouldering competitions and alpinism.
> finally putting alpinism alongside bouldering competitions is like comparing cheese and chalk,
And that is the whole point: more climbers eating cheese does not mean less climbers using chalk. They are independent, just like bouldering competitions and alpinism.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
The moment routes got graded climbing was made competitive. That was a long time ago. Whether you choose to see climbing as on a spectrum or separate sports is neither her nor there. From what I understand you can rock up at the shadow of Patagonia these days and do hard bouldering or go for it (weather permitting) on Cerro Torre. They coexist. Inconveniently for armchair pigeonholers people do both. Joining the queues for Mont Blanc hasn't come close to super alpinism for what a 150 years?
> True but that's not my point which is encouraging those who want to turn climbing into a competitive sport, at what ever level of competence, are not doing it a service. The level of anger and inability to discuss the subject doesn't exactly convince either... finally putting alpinism alongside bouldering competitions is like comparing cheese and chalk, and a visit to Chamonix would convince anyone that even high level alpinism is hardly a minority activity.
The moment routes got graded climbing was made competitive. That was a long time ago. Whether you choose to see climbing as on a spectrum or separate sports is neither her nor there. From what I understand you can rock up at the shadow of Patagonia these days and do hard bouldering or go for it (weather permitting) on Cerro Torre. They coexist. Inconveniently for armchair pigeonholers people do both. Joining the queues for Mont Blanc hasn't come close to super alpinism for what a 150 years?
In reply to shark:
And I am told I don't know what bouldering competitions are like! Chamonix isn't just the ordinary route on Mont Blanc. Living near Fontainebleau I think I know as much as any what bouldering is about, it's the formal conversion towards competitions which I object too, and will continue to object to - verbally, I don't have, nor desire to have, any power to stop people doing them, anymore than I have to stop the use of chalk and bolting of rock but I will still make my feelings known about both when I feel like it. If this upsets people then that's their problem, the inability to be at ease with people holding different opinions is sign of an extraordinary immaturity and lack of tolerance... reaching for your pitch-forks as mentioned higher up the thread.
Another indication is a certain lack of brain power (addled by inhaling chalk dust?)of those who are twisting their knickers and frothing over their keyboards, not one, apparently, noticed anything special about the date I made my first post on.
> Joining the queues for Mont Blanc hasn't come close to super alpinism for what a 150 years?
And I am told I don't know what bouldering competitions are like! Chamonix isn't just the ordinary route on Mont Blanc. Living near Fontainebleau I think I know as much as any what bouldering is about, it's the formal conversion towards competitions which I object too, and will continue to object to - verbally, I don't have, nor desire to have, any power to stop people doing them, anymore than I have to stop the use of chalk and bolting of rock but I will still make my feelings known about both when I feel like it. If this upsets people then that's their problem, the inability to be at ease with people holding different opinions is sign of an extraordinary immaturity and lack of tolerance... reaching for your pitch-forks as mentioned higher up the thread.
Another indication is a certain lack of brain power (addled by inhaling chalk dust?)of those who are twisting their knickers and frothing over their keyboards, not one, apparently, noticed anything special about the date I made my first post on.
In reply to UKC News:
Bad news and I do hope this approach works for them.
I am, however, intrigued how a sponsor can suddenly "pull out".
In my professional experience, any credible and well engineered sponsorship agreement is contractually binding.
Bad news and I do hope this approach works for them.
I am, however, intrigued how a sponsor can suddenly "pull out".
In my professional experience, any credible and well engineered sponsorship agreement is contractually binding.
Post edited at 13:58
In reply to plyometrics:
I think they went bankrupt, which I understand can play havoc with contractual agreements.
> I am, however, intrigued how a sponsor can suddenly "pull out".
> In my professional experience, any credible and well engineered sponsorship agreement is contractually binding.
I think they went bankrupt, which I understand can play havoc with contractual agreements.
In reply to plyometrics:
Good point.
The sponsor was Lonsdale China http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=67096
Googling reveals nothing about Lonsdale China let alone its financial/legal relationship with Lonsdale Sports Limited or whether it is bankrupt (or even existed !)
Good point.
The sponsor was Lonsdale China http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=67096
Googling reveals nothing about Lonsdale China let alone its financial/legal relationship with Lonsdale Sports Limited or whether it is bankrupt (or even existed !)
Post edited at 15:06
In reply to Nick Russell:
That makes more sense.
It was the use of the phrase "pulls out" thats implies, to me, something other than bankruptcy.
Issue clarified for me, if true.
That makes more sense.
It was the use of the phrase "pulls out" thats implies, to me, something other than bankruptcy.
Issue clarified for me, if true.
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
Is it you that's the April Fool joke, or just your opinions?
> Another indication is a certain lack of brain power (addled by inhaling chalk dust?)of those who are twisting their knickers and frothing over their keyboards, not one, apparently, noticed anything special about the date I made my first post on.
Is it you that's the April Fool joke, or just your opinions?
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
So you both mean it and it's an april fools joke. Your right to voice your opinion means that you can belittle something people care about but they can't voice their opinion that you're a dick for doing so.
So you both mean it and it's an april fools joke. Your right to voice your opinion means that you can belittle something people care about but they can't voice their opinion that you're a dick for doing so.
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