UKC

At the moment I have a 60cm 9mm nylon sling attached to my belay loop with a cow hitch / lark's foot. It also has a single overhand knot half way up so I can have a shorter safety if needed.

It is getting a bit furry now so I'm going to replace it but thought I would consult with the UKC'ers to find the optimum replacement. I've heard that knotting dynemma is bad (a.k.a. the overhand knot half way up the sling) but does this apply to nylon slings as well? Also, are there other better ways of attaching it to your belay loop than a lark's foot?

Thanks,
M

In reply to Morgan P:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2597

I have the Dynaclip (the single point one), but it only ever gets used for sport, and maybe very occasionally when climbing as a three. If you're climbing trad, just use the rope. It's already there, it's no extra effort and it won't cost you any more money

In reply to Morgan P: As teh_mark say, the 'optimum replacement' is probably one of Beal's purpose made lanyards.

As well as the two in Jack's UKC review is is worth having a look at the Beal dynaconnexion http://bealplanet.com/sport/anglais/longes-dynaconnexion.php which wasn't included.

I rarely use any type of lanyard, but when I do, I use a short offcut of new dynamic rope. Fig-8 to my harness, overhand on the bight in middle and a barrel knot with a permanently attached a krab at the end.

In reply to Morgan P:

I still prefer nylon slings for that particular job, although I use dyneema/spectra for everything else. Nylon resists wear & tear a bit better, and is fractionally less static in case I'm stupid enough to not keep the sling weighted and then slip.

In reply to Morgan P:




I've never felt the need for such a thing. The 70 metres of roping trailing behind me has always seemed more than adequate for the job

In reply to timjones:


Never done a multi pitch abseil then? Or a sport route where the anchor was difficult to thread? I agree having a tether permanently on the harness is silly.

In reply to AlanLittle:


Surely we all carry slings for those jobs. It just seems that having them permanently attached to your belay loop is a recipe for tangles.

The tricky thread at a lower off is easily covered with a krab and clove hitch in the rope.

In reply to Morgan P:



Nylon is fine for this application.

In reply to Morgan P:

What's a 'safety' and what do you use it for?

Whatever it is, if what you have works for you but is getting worn then I'd be inclined to swap like for like.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

I use one of these http://inglesport.com/products/cowtails-10mm-dual when sport climbing for clipping into belays and abseiling. Pretty easy to make yourself. The main advantage I see over a sling is the dynamic nature of the rope when moving around belays and setting up abseils, where a slip or fall has the potential to shock load the sling and belay (see the DMM slings and anchors video). I understand this is unlikely but to me feels more durable and fail-safe.

In reply to timjones:



It doesn't seem to be any bother to the 90% of french climbers around here which have a purpose made cowstail permananetly on their harness.

E

In reply to Enty:



C'est la vie

We're all different, I just can' t be doing with the idea but I guess that on sport you've only got a few QD's on your harness.

In reply to Enty:

I'm guessing that those 90% French climbers just have a slim rack of quickdraws rather than a full UK trad set.

So far less possibility of tangles.

I'm a bit baffled by this thread as well. Only time I kept a cows tail was aiding big walls when I seemed to have everything on the belay loop and it was a right fandango. Keep it uncluttered IMHO

In reply to Morgan P:

I usually have a 140cm daisy chain for this use. Twist lock krab on the end and if you wrap it around your waist it is out of the way nicely. And just to piss everyone off I use the pockets for shortening it when I set up a direct belay (95% of all belays I do)

In reply to Morgan P:

What you are doing is fine just never fall onto it

I got one of these recently and have found it useful

http://www.grivelgb.co.uk/products/accessories/daisy-chain/

In reply to Hannes:


Seems like a pretty bloody stupid reason to do something that puts you at unnecessary risk. Each to their own though.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

If I got to the top of a pitch and found myself directly belayed off a single daisy pocket I would have some pretty choice things to say. If you want to take that risk, it's fine, but you shouldn't expose others.

I have a grivel super daisy. Great for some applications - bolted multipitch, rope faffing, climbing as a 3 where you are untying ends to swap leads. Other than that, I just use the rope, or attach a sling from the rack.

In reply to Hannes:


Just out of interest, I was wondering what you meant by this. Hang the belay plate from the daisy, or just shorten it via the pockets as normal?

In reply to Reidy:

The Grivel Daisy and others, which are identical are marketed, usually, as PAS, personal anchor systems. The come with a locking carabiner. Go Outdoors has another make for about £27 I believe (look it up if you need one)
The PAS is made of several interlocked sewn nylon slings, and does not have the daisy chain (a device for aid climbing) problems, of misclipping pockets etc.
I have a PAS, but rarely carry it on single pitch trad in the UK, but do carry it on sport routes, and 'trad' outside the UK where fixed anchors are common.

In reply to LJC:

Similar, tested to 22kN.
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/pas_personal_anchor_system.html

In reply to LJC:


Using the rope to tie into an anchor is great when swapping leads on the way up, but totally useless for multi pitch abseils. I have the Metolius version, and typically only use it on the way down.

CB

In reply to Morgan P:

The Kong Slyde is quite popular in (some places in) Spain for sport climbing. Stays figure 8'd to your harness and clipped to a back loop til you need it. Uses 9mm rope. Just clip it to an anchor and adjust as required.

Could be just something else to carry though when you could be just using the rope.

In reply to Morgan P:

What you're doing is fine. There are better ways to do the same job but every situation is different. Best practice would be to use the rope, it's the best shock absorber you have and your climbing gear is rated based on the peak forces that can be generated with it in the system. I'm sure you know all that though.

There are advantages to a cows tail for sure, as others have noted they're invaluable for long abseils and a few other situations. You've got to learn the limitations of each and then apply them to each situation you find, prioritising different aspects such as each of use, safety and general faff!

Larks foot to the belay loop or through the waist and leg loops of the harness (depends on the rise) is the best way I've found. For the vast majority of situations the rope is my first choice though. I tried one of those personal anchor systems and found it to be a proper faff, couldn't figure out where to clip it when not in use (most of the time) and it was huge. Same goes for having yet another rope/offcut dangling from your harness. If I need one now I just tie it on the fly with sling from my rack.

In reply to johncook:


The definitive answer. I started out using home made cow's tails (as in caving) which is a cheap way of mimicking the "dynaclip" mentioned above, which despite the posh name and price appears to be simply a cow's tail.

I've subsequently swapped it for a so called "Personal Anchor System" (PAS) from Sterling Ropes, made of tubular nylon and called the "Chain Reactor". I find this perfect for winter and Euro multipitch with fixed belays, especially when climbing on a rope of 3 where belaying with the rope can slow you down when swapping leaders, direct belaying on a guide plate, and for multiple abseils.

It is in no way difficult to work out how to clip it to the harness and creates no faff or tangles - this may be helped by the fact of being of soft tubular nylon as opposed to stiffer dyneema.

In reply to Martin Bennett:

I'd hope you always belay with the rope

Is this the one you're talking about? http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Anchor-Chain-Reviews/Sterling-Chain-Reactor

In reply to Morgan P:
I'd use a dynamic rope lanyard- Make one from a scrag end/ off cut if you have any (much cheaper then buying the Beal one suggested!). Safer then a static sling should you shock-load it, and not much bulkier if you do your knot nicely. (Nylon is safer/stretchyer then Dynema but still not great!)

Although personally I find very few circumstances where i need such a system, but do have some 'cows tails',with one and two alternate length clip in knots made of half rope (one I had to cut due to an abrasion) for the job.

In reply to Nic DW:

just don't clip the wrong rope when you're gripped...

In reply to LJC:


He said direct belay, not belaying off the daisy.

In reply to NottsRich:


This, maybe I wasn't very clear but shortening it for myself to adjust so I'm in an ideal position to work the ropes. The direct belay if obviously going to be set up according to common sense

In reply to alooker:


Ah. Eventually understood what you mean - there is a certain ambiguity involved in the two separate activities of belaying and belaying!


Yeah that's the one. Difficult to understand the reviewers' comment about bulk - When choosing I found the Metolius dyneema one I looked at as well to be more, not less, bulky in practice, due to the stiffness of the dyneema loops.

In reply to Martin Bennett:

I haven't seen this one 'in the flesh' so can't comment. I don't think it's CE/UIAA approved though so maybe you got it from the states?

The metolius one is very bulky, agreed.

In reply to alooker:

Yes - ordered on-line from somebody and was surprised to get direct delivery from Sterling Ropes in USA.