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Fire Doors

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Chesher cat 09 Apr 2014
Are there any H & S bobs on here?

If a fire door has a sticker on stating the fact, should they be wedged open?

Had a trawl through the tinterweb but not found anything that states it shouyld not be done. We have an anal retentive H & S chap who has plastered stickers everywhere but wedges the door open. I want to challenge him on this.

Is there an exact H & S statement or similar?

Thanks for your help

CC

Ps - Don't get me started on how to fill out a form if you have a paper cut, though there are Micky Mouse plasters now in the 1st aid box.......

i want to challenge him on this!
 FesteringSore 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:

Certainly when I worked as a Facilities Manager a few years ago the wedging open of fire doors was a big no-no but I'm not sure where it's written.
 ByEek 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:
I work in a plush office. All the fire doors stay open but as soon as the fire alarm sounds, they are released and automatically shut. I also believe fire doors are built to pretty exacting standards. A fire door isn't a door with a "fire door" sticker on it.
Post edited at 08:28
Chesher cat 09 Apr 2014
It has a sticker on it. there is a BS 476 Part 22 or BS EN 1634 Part 1 which states what the door should be made off.

It does seem companies go a bit mental with signs and ihave no idea why. are we that thick not to pay attention when walking around?
 MG 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:

Of course it shouldn't be wedged open - it won't do its job of preventing fire and smoke movement if it is. The requirements for frequency and location etc. of fire doors are laid out in Approved Document B of the Building Regulations (google). Whether this explicitly says they shouldn't be wedged open is another matter...

More generally doors will be rated in a Standard Fire test for fire resistance, this will be done with them shut (surprise!), so if they are wedged open, it is equivalent to not having a door at all.
 Fraser 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:

The short answer is, it depends. Where is the door located? Is it into an escape route/stair, or is it part of the was along an escape route? Is there a self-closer on the door? If there is, it should more than likely be kept shut. This isn't so much a H&S issue, it's compliance with Building Regulations and any Fire Strategy that's in place for the building in question.
Chesher cat 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Fraser:

Door is top of a stairs from the office, it does have a self closer mechanism fitted.

The company i work for oddly is big on compliance.

Thanks all for the info.

It is just a bugbear of mine, must be the male menopause........
 Choss 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:

Is it not simply:

fire exit keep Clear, fire door keep Shut?
Chesher cat 09 Apr 2014

It is that simple but folk here are not that bright. The other option is to remove the sign on the door.

 Dax H 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:

I recently did the IOSH managing safety course and one of the exercises was a look at this photo and list the hazards job.
One of the hazards was a wedged open fire door.
 sbc_10 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:

Yes, this is familiar territory. After a recent fire practice I walked through the entire length of our building and shut 10 'fire-doors' that had been wedged or the carpet pile had kept them open.

But here's one to put into the mix. How many of your fire doors open inward (ie. opposite ) to the directed fire exit arrow ?
Add a few hundred people, smoke and a moderate level of panic and that will end up being counter productive as well.
 FactorXXX 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:

As long as you hold them open with fire extinguishers it should be OK.
 Neil Williams 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:

I never understood why they changed the stickers. They used to say "Fire stop door, keep closed" which actually justifies why you should keep them closed. "Fire door" means to most people "fire exit" so they'll see no reason not to have them open.

Neil
 Neil Williams 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:
FWIW, given their purpose, if he needs chapter and verse on why they should be closed, he isn't much of a genuine H&S person, as he is rather lacking in a basic understanding of what safety effect they have.

Another option is to have them held back by magnets interlocked with the fire alarm system, though. Then, when the fire alarm sounds they close.

Neil
Post edited at 10:35
Chesher cat 09 Apr 2014
The office has 2 staircases from the small office. One staircase has the fire opening into the office & the other staircase goes to a emergency exit.

I'll just keep shutting the wedged door and see if this has an affect


Best warning sticker is in the bog - Do not put anything large down the toilet. That one made me smile
 Sharp 09 Apr 2014
In reply to Chesher cat:

Just get him on a recording saying it's ok to leave them open and then send it round in a company email, explain to everyone how you've been so stupid thinking the fire doors should be shut but now it's been explained to you by the expert you see that they work better when they're propped open.
 Fraser 09 Apr 2014
In reply to sbc_10:

> But here's one to put into the mix. How many of your fire doors open inward (ie. opposite ) to the directed fire exit arrow ?

> Add a few hundred people, smoke and a moderate level of panic and that will end up being counter productive as well.

Not sure of the English regs, but in Scotland you can have an inward opening fire door, depending on the occupany capacity of the room it serves. From memory, for most building types if it's less than 60 persons occ. cap. it's ok to open against the direction of escape.


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