UKC

Hi

A sort of a flippant question but - not if you're an old fogey/enjoy the peace and quiet of the outdoors! I was climbing at Bowles today and someone put music on their speakers - I complained because I found it disturbing.

What do others think? Is it ok to blast out the tunes at a crag?

Thanks

Old Fuddy Duddy.

In reply to zammi:

No, No, No, No, and No.

In reply to zammi:

I have no problem with a few tunes at the crag. I expect to be in a minority of one though.

In reply to zammi:
Depends on the crag and how busy it is, and never at s volume that can be heard more than 10m away.

I have had music with me in the past, only when bouldering, and only if no one is about, and if anyone turns up will offer to turn it down.

I do however look back on a fabulous summer spent mainly at portland listening to england win the ashes while doing sport routes, and being rather popular as no one else had a radio!

In reply to zammi:

Sometimes it's great... other times I wanna just hear the wind.

In reply to zammi:

Just no - the f****** impolite arrogance of it

In reply to nacnud:


Maybe two!
Depends what the music is.
Help drown out the usual clanking of metal and the shouts of 'Take in', 'Tight!' etc etc...

In reply to The Pylon King:

yes, yes, maybe and definitely not, depending on the music and volume

i sometimes use my phone as a portable music player, put it in my top pocket and climb. not too loud mind .

In reply to zammi:

No, no, no!!!! It's forcing your choice on other people. It's the same as those people who walk down the street with music blaring out of their phone. Use the flipping earphones! Grrrr.

I for one like to go to a crag partly to enjoy the outdoors and the peace and quiet.

At an indoor wall is one thing, but there it is being piped by the business, not individuals.

In reply to zammi:

I was at Holmfirth Edge last week and two guys had a boombox pumping out German Techno. They were also knocking back the cider and piping cheeb in good quantities.

Had a good crack doing a few problems with them I was suprised when one of them pulled V2 in a fair old state. Good times, suck it up and don't be so up your arse.

In reply to zammi:




No, it's rude and selfish.

In reply to Removed User:

And if they'd been playing crap music and not been friendly?

In reply to zammi:

I've quite enjoyed it on occasion. A glorious day climbing at the base of El Cap (and I never got much further up it than that!) to the accompaniment of rock music from the youngsters picnicking and sunbathing there was pretty special. And I fondly recall climbing at the Plantation to the skirl of distant bagpipes (don't ask me) drifting on the breeze. It's easy enough to find peace and quiet if you want.

In reply to zammi:

Totally wrong. Why would anyone think it's acceptable?
Its almost as bad as smoking at the crag

In reply to zammi:

Not if *anyone* else can hear you. It's not your home, and rates 10/10 on the inconsiderate scale.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

German techno ain't my idea of good music!

In reply to zammi:

So going by this, if theres anyone around 50 years of age or from london at the crag, dont turn the radio on...

We normally stick the radio on at the crag, but if theres anybody else about ask if they mind, generally nobody is bothered. If it does wind up getting switched off, the likelyhood of my climbing partner to start singing loudly is greatly increased. Swings and roundabouts

In reply to climbwhenready:


This ^^^^

Didn't they invent ipods or something?

E

In reply to zammi:

Wow,

Interesting how you come to a thread and see reactions and juxtapose it with a different experience...

Something like 5 years ago I came on here and complained about being at the crag when a group of climbers turned up and started throwing bangers around (fireworks, not sausages). At the time I found it incredible that I was being accused of being a curmudgeon/fuddy duddy and despite what I thought was a genuine gripe.

It's interesting to see what tolerance we do or do not have for certain activities at the crag that we perceive as being intrusive.

In reply to zammi:

I hate this.

Music at the crag is aural litter. If you want to recreate the indoor climbing experience please just stay indoors.

I cannot abide climbers and mountain bikers treating the outdoor environment as an area that is exclusively their playground to the detriment of all other people seeking to enjoy the outdoors and offering no respect to beautiful places we take sanctuary in.

If you can guarantee that there is no one who can possibly be within earshot then do please indulge in your need for music but otherwise turn it off.

In reply to Enty:


Yes, but fortunately they also invented the x-mini speaker, which enabled us to blast out Mozart's Clarinet Concerto while having breakfast on the big ledge on Washington Column. Another top tune for the crag.

In reply to zammi:

I love climbing to music at the crag. I was listening to some Bryan Ferneyhough youtube.com/watch?v=qxbpF_aW4vU& whilst climbing at The Cuttings the other week and some impudent young pup asked me to turn it down a bit. Youth of today have no taste.

In reply to ActionSte:


What, you're saying I'm an outlier? :-P

In reply to Andy Clarke:


Cool!!
I was lying on the ledge high on Zodiac and we could hear pan pipes playing somewhere over on the NA Wall - that was quite cool to go to sleep to.

E

In reply to zammi:

Load of young guys got a bit of a rave going and a massive fire at Portishead Wednesday night. Other than throwing aerosols on the fire it was wicked! Wish I had a skanky quarry to party in where I grew up!

In reply to zammi:

Some of my favourite days climbing were spent at Pexhill Quarry with music, beers, sunshine, portable BBQ and good friends.

Think venue would dictate how I/others feel about music at the crag: venues like Pexhill or Auchenstarry for example I wouldn't mind, and maybe even expect it, but that would be a different climbing experience generally to a hill or moorland crag.

In reply to Andy Clarke:


Me too, someone once played Bob Marley's "Jamming" at full volume at the bottom of a cliff, it seemed so right:

We're jammin'I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too.

Ain't no rules, ain't no vow, we can do it anyhow:
I'n'I will see you through,
'Cos everyday we pay the price with a little sacrifice,
Jammin' till the jam is through.

We're jammin' -
To think that jammin' was a thing of the past;
We're jammin',
And I hope this jam is gonna last.

In reply to Removed User:

What! *Splutters*

Get out....

In reply to zammi:

I must say I do enjoy to climb with some music playing however at the same time I respect the people around me and will turn off if there are any others at the crag.

The silence of being outdoors is good for relaxing after the climb but it is probably psychological but I feel my climbing is motivated more while listening to an appropriate song.

In reply to zammi:

I think the it depends, a group having a BBQ enjoying outside as a group sure. We had a big bbq up on Dartmoor with people climbing hard stuff, a top rope to take the kids up, some bouldering and it was fun. Tunes would have been perfect there but other places I could see it being inappropriate.

In reply to zammi:

I'm another who doesn't see the issue! Especially if nobody else was at the crag/around. I'd ask if anyone minded if someone else came along, and would like to think I'm approachable enough that if another climber could hear my music and didn't want to, they'd come and ask me to turn it off.

I don't see that this has to be an issue at all, but some people would rather complain online than go and actually talk to the 'offender'.

In reply to ianstevens:


I'm sure you're approachable, but how can you know that's how you appear to others? People might in fact feel intimidated and reluctant to approach you,especially if you're in a group.

It's antisocial and selfish, and quite unnecesary. MP3 players and headphones are cheap and light, and if you want music while you climb you can do so without inflicting it on others.

In reply to Andy Clarke:

Brilliant.....I can see you and Tim now wafting your arms in a conductor stylie to a bit of Mozart

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:


He said they were playing German techno.

In reply to TMM:

>

the ratio of hypocrisy to irony in that post is extraordinary.

In reply to zammi:

If the crag is some shitty, scruffy quarry that has no intrinsic beauty to spoil, then fine by me - I won't be climbing there.

Music at an actual crag? Are you mental?

In reply to Dom Whillans:


Lack of punctuation?

In reply to Dom Whillans:

Would you care to explain or merely snipe?

In reply to zammi:
No issue with this, depending on music of course! But thats just down to personal taste
In fact - I think we should wire up a huuge sound system for the north face at Ben Nevis. Keen?

In reply to Dom Whillans:

Let me explain further.

Climbing, walking and cycling are, for me (this important, the experience is personal) not just forms of exercise but a way to explore some beautiful parts of the country. I personally find it offensive when other seek to turn these beautiful places into personal gyms for their own gratification. I do not like the intrusion of bolts, I don't like groups draping top ropes and dominating crags, I don't mountain bikers digging up fragile peat beds to build jumps and berms, I don't like guided hill walking groups walking three abreast blocking paths and waving their poles around.

I would prefer that people took pleasure in outdoor spaces in such as way as to minimise their impact on the locality and but also allowing other people to get their fix of peace, quiet and calm.

In reply to TMM:
so in order to maximise your own personal enjoyment of the countryside, you want to stop others from enjoying the countryside in their own way? i refer you to my previous post...

In reply to Dom Whillans:

A devastating response.

Why should ONE person or ONE group's choice of music dictate the experience for other users of the crag, boulder, cliff etc? Why should the passing dog walker have someone's music inflicted on them? Why should the bird watcher have his amenity value reduced because someone has decided to plug some speakers to their phone?

Are you are wind up merchant or are you serious? Do you seriously believe that it those preferring natural sounds at the crag who are being selfish? Surely it is preferable to take a view that all of us minimise our impact on any of the outdoor spaces we use?

In reply to zammi:

People playing music at crags is what trundling was invented for.

In reply to TMM:

you are but one person also? i personally don't mind other people playing music at crags, that's their choice; i personally don't do it, but it's not the kind of thing that would ruin my day out...
As I rode past along the highest allowable point of moel famau the other week I met some walkers coming the other way - they were walking abreast of each other and had some music playing on a phone loudspeaker and were clearly loving being out in the spring sunshine as much as i was, although i was on my own and enjoying just the sound of my own breathing and the wind blowing around me. I even dared to let out a whoop of joy as I descended on the permissive bridleway to Llangynhafal - should I have kept that in and remained stoically silent in case anyone else might have heard?

In reply to Dom Whillans:
the outdoors isn't a big playground you know. D

In reply to nacnud:

Would you object if I put a nice crashing Shostakovich symphony on?

In reply to Dom Whillans:


You seem to be suggesting some sort of equivalence between one person who inflicts unwanted noise on others and another person who inflicts unwanted silence. I don't get that.

In reply to ianstevens:

People don't approach to complain, normally. Not in Britain at least. That doesn't mean you aren't pissing on their barbecue, though.

In reply to zammi:

Interesting comments, thanks people. Two things:

Bagpipes are a definite YES!
What's trundling?!

In reply to GrahamD:


Exactly. Indeed , because they are overly polite theyll often fail to complain even when asked.

In reply to SGD:


You have to be careful though: over-enthusiastic air batoning can easily give you a nasty case of flash pump first thing in the morning. I normally warm up with a bit of virtual violin.

In reply to zammi:

It's when large rocks are "accidentally" dislodged and roll down the hillside... in this case in a view to crushing the undesirable source of sound.

It used be an appreciated sport but nowadays it has gone out of fashion a bit, some see it as anti-social and dangerous.

In reply to zammi:

It's not remotely OK; it's for c*nts. Same applies to tube carriages.

HTH

In reply to Dom Whillans:

It's a bit like smoking, Dom.

I have absolutely no problem with people smoking - it's none of my business.
But I don't want to inhale their smoke.

By the same token, I have no problem with people listening to the music of their choice.

But I don't want it to be imposed on me.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Exactly that... Life's too short and the world's to wonderful for it to bother me.

In reply to zammi:

I wouldn't have liked that there either.

The idea that is OK to put the music on, because others can ask you to turn it off if they want to is false. It puts those who don't want it in an awkward position, making them have to ask for the silence they thought they were going there for in the first place.

On the other hand, there are lots of places (bars, parties etc) where someone else's music is fine.

In reply to zammi:

Not cool in my opinion. I don't do it and I prefer others not to. It's noise pollution.

In reply to zammi:

It s difficult one as it depends on so many variables. I've hung out on the beach with strangers listening to tunes or playing guitar and it's been a great relaxed way to get meet new people.

On the flip side I've stayed in quiet villa in Italy and had German's playing techno out of their car - not cool.

We all just need to be considerate and more friendly to each other in general - happy days.

In reply to zammi:

Trundling is a physical alternative to blasting ones enemies with bagpipes, but not so effective because trundled rocks seldom cause physical or mental harm.

In reply to Uppers:


I've been in a tent trying to sleep with people being relaxed, playing guitar and meeting people. F*cking annoying it was. These things always seem fine and sociable when you are part of the group.

In reply to zammi:


I would rather hear rocks falling, than the sound of those poor pipes skirling.

In reply to Dom Whillans:

The thing is, if most people go to the outdoors for peace and quiet (which is the case, as far as I'm aware), then if the minority who do enjoy music in the outdoors go and play music, it negatively impacts upon the majority who go into the outdoors for some respite from the noise of everyday life. Pretty simple...I'd have thought?

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Aha! I think trundling sounds like a marvellous sport. I shall be practising (what's wrong with anti-social and dangerous?!)

In reply to zammi:
I do believe that when climbing Peter Harding's 1946 Roaches lower tier test piece one should be in the zone listening to Wagners 1856 composed test piece of the same namesake


youtube.com/watch?v=V92OBNsQgxU&

In reply to PaulTanton:


If it's such a problem for you have you thought about starting a campaign to get the BMC to ban it outright? Perhaps we should have designated smoking areas at crags?

In reply to Removed User:


Haha, awesome!!
I only like playing minimal industrial techno and dub techno, it sets me in a good redpoint mood. but I think anything over 160 bpm it's a bit rude really. Nothing wrong with a wee bit of wacky backy either

In reply to Tomar:

It's all about context. Maybe we should designated outdoor areas for music by genre and historical relevance. 70s heavy metal for the Cromlech, Talking Heads for Rubicon Wall, grunge for Welsh slate, the Jam for Ramshaw...

In reply to Dave Garnett:


Great idea. What about the Idwal Slabs, though?

In reply to abseil:

Cliff Richards, probably

In reply to chris fox:

And "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik" for those poor souls who get benighted on the belay ledge.

In reply to GrahamD:


Thank you. I shall haul my vast Cliff Richards CD collection plus a giant boombox [I'm thinking the sound could be more easily dispersed there] up there next time.

In reply to flaneur:


I like your choice! You could even tape a radio mike to your neck and sing along as you climb.

In reply to zammi:



I think people who "blast out tunes" at a crag should have their sound equipment confiscated and pounded into tiny pieces under a pair of big boots. They should then be pinned down and forced to eat dog's business. Just my personal opinion.

In reply to zammi:




I don't go outside to listen to music, let alone other people's music :/

In reply to DaveGoesClimbing:


End of argument I think!

In reply to zammi:




Only if everyone climbing there is happy with it. Silence should be the default setting.

In reply to Tim Chappell:

...and by "happy with it" we mean really happy with it. Not just not saying anything. Hard to tell sometimes.

In reply to GrahamD:

Yes, I didn't put into that post the obvious practical difficulties with such a policy. E.g. the crag is rocking (geddit?) and everyone *already* there likes that-- and then someone else turns up who doesn't. My policy implies that the music should then go off straight away. And I'm happy with that implication, but I can see things getting sticky at this point.

Simpler just to say No Music period, really.

In reply to zammi:

I've been really surprised by a lot the replies on this thread.

My compass must be off because I was sure that the vast, overwhelming majority would believe that people playing amplified music at a crag would not be appropriate.

Clearly I am wrong or have passed into old fogeydom or perhaps the 'silent majority' are just that silent.

Having been accused of 'hypocrisy' and 'irony' from another poster on this thread who thought I was putting my desire for peace and quiet over his desire for playing music, I liked someone else's succinct reply along the line that 'my silence does not impinge on your enjoyment but your music may impinge on my enjoyment'

In reply to TMM: I don't think your compass is off at all. One person playing music at the crag can ruin the experience for many people. I don't think imposing some peace and quiet would ruin the day for any music lovers at the crag.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

The whole subject can be summed up thus:

Anyone playing music at a crag is an unself-aware, arrogant c*nt.

Period.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
What about at Baildon Bank? I think some really bad scally techno on a tinny boombox could cheer the place up.

In reply to Jon Stewart: Baildon Bank is always the exception. Loud music might cover up the sounds of some of the 'classic' routes collapsing around you.

In reply to The Pylon King: I was trying to add my voice without using the C word.

In reply to zammi:

I've just come back from a sport climbing trip in Mallorca and to be fair we played a lot of music at the crags! However, this was only when we were alone and as soon as anyone approached we would turn the music off.

I really enjoy the vibe when we've got a good group with some tunes on but each to their own. I must admit though, it's a bit of a sport thing! I've never played music while trad climbing and I don't think I would! Different style, different ethics I suppose!

In reply to zammi:


This: youtube.com/watch?v=afI58PRmTJ0&

In reply to zammi: Noise be it at a crag or anywhere is a type of pollution and like most pollutants can cause health problems, noise has been linked to stress which can cause other physical problems from heart to metal health illness.
People who make noise are invading others space with pollution which is a selfish act, complaining to selfish people has resulted in many cases of assault or vandalism of property against the person complaining so many don’t take that action.

Trundling sounds like a good idea if your stressed out ready to bust a blood vessel and going f__king mental at selfish inconsiderate b_____rds playing music.
As for designated areas for these people this should be directly in the trundling zone
See if they like their space being invaded
Another O__ Fuddy D_____

In reply to zammi:

I'd prefer not to hear music whilst at the crag. Maybe at an urban crag it would be acceptable as other groups tend to use such places to socialise but not at a rural crag.

The thing is that most people live in urban areas and they see recreation in rural areas as a chance to get away from the bustle and noise of urban living - therefore coming across someone making a load of noise would feel like it's ruining your day out (for me anyhow).

I'll admit that it's a somewhat distorted view of rural landscapes, as in reality they are working environments too and you could just as easily arrive at the crag to loud sounds of farm work, shooting or tree felling. However, unlike workmen, the guy playing music at the crag does not have to make noise to carry out his activity.

Personally I see playing music in the open air as kind of a way of someone making a claim on a piece of territory, i.e. I'm here, this is my bit and therefore it comes across as quite anti-social.

In reply to Jimbo C:

>> Personally I see playing music in the open air as kind of a way of someone making a claim on a piece of territory, i.e. I'm here, this is my bit and therefore it comes across as quite anti-social.

I see your point, but I just think it's a form of showing off, along the lines of "my choice of music is so cool/way out/unusual and that makes me a really interesting person". It's really no different from the boy racer in his souped up car with massive speakers on full and the windows casually wound down. Brainless scum.

In reply to zammi:

I climbed Belle Vue Bastion today: lovely route, but didn't follow the first ascensionist's lead of lugging a gramophone up there. I did whistle "The Breakaway" for a minute or two, am I bad? I'm not a great whistler, but it did help to drown out the unnecessary shouting from other parties on the crag.

In reply to zammi:
No - it shows complete disrespect for other people. We don't all like the same music for one thing - I might like Skindred turned up loud but I don't ecpect many other people would and I'd throw up if I had to listen to John Denver/Cliff Richard/Susan Boyle etc etc.

It's the same thing at campsites, some tosser turns up, opens both car doors and inflicts their choice of music on everyone else - who appointed them as the arbiter of musical taste (or lack of) for everyone else ?

In reply to Rog Wilko:

It's really no different from the boy racer in his souped up car with massive speakers on full and the windows casually wound down. Brainless scum...

Oh dear. Not only do I quite like the odd tune at the crag or on the wall, I also used to drive a Subaru Impreza WRX Sti (grey import version 2) with a 4 inch pipe. Doubly condemned. Mind you, that pipe really did make great music.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Or those people who insist on wearing interesting clothes or unusual footwear, having pointless haircuts, or painting their front door a different colour from their neighbours... so juvenile and 'alternative'!

In reply to Leo Woodfelder:

Were you the group from Manchester at Sa Gubia on Saturday and Cala Mangraner on Monday? If so you were exactly who I thought of when I saw this thread, you weren't on your own, and it was pretty annoying!