UKC

Surprised Coel missed this one.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-a...

Article one of the new provisions defines terrorism as "calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based".

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

Hope they run out of oil soon, so that the world leaders might have the guts to ignore that horrible country.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

It's not an offence to be an atheist, but calling for atheist thoughts is.

Keep your thoughts to yourself and you'll be OK

In reply to Trangia:

Now when has Coel been known to do that

In reply to Duncan Bourne:
>Article one of the new provisions defines terrorism as "calling for atheist >thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the >Islamic religion on which this country is based".

So that makes me a terrorist too. Being a Christian, I am most certainly guilty of "calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country [Saudi] is based".

In reply to Tim Chappell:

I think just about anyone who isn't a fundamental Muslem is a 'terrorist' in their barmy 'reasoning'.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Sure, we do a lot of terrorism, we Anglicans. Terrorism is a big thing in the C of E, obviously. That and jumble-sales.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

When travelling to Saudi I was always advised that on any official document where you were asked to state religion, if you were not a Muslim, always put Christian as Muslims acknowledge Jesus as a Prophet. Putting Atheist, or Hindu was not acceptable ans one denied the existence of god, and the other beleived in a multitude of gods - neither of which are acceptable points of view in Saudi.

Being a hypocrite was apparently perfectly acceptable!

In reply to Tim Chappell:

It would in Saudi Tim. It is not unknown for Christians to be targeted on blasphemy charges by vindictive neighbours or people who use it as an excuse to grab their land or property.

In reply to Lord of Starkness:

I guess Buddhist wouldn't cut the mustard either

In reply to Lord of Starkness:

It's standard practice to put "non-Muslim" on Saudi visa applications nowadays...

Atheist and Hindu are both big no-nos still.

In reply to Lord of Starkness:


They acknowledge Abraham as well, that's why you should always put Jewish.

In reply to winhill:
I was close once to getting a gig with the Saudi Central Bank. I was wondering how to avoid putting Jewish on the work visa application or Jerusalem as my city of residence! I knew I should go for British of course, on the basis that my Israeli citizenship might worry them a little.

In reply to winhill:

I knew I should go for British of course, on the basis that my Israeli citizenship might worry them a little.

In reply to MikeTS:

Some friends and there family went to work in Saudi but ended up not getting the money they were expecting and not being allowed to leave (ie the employer kept their passports and kept making excuses about not giving them back and not accepting notice to quit. Eventually they made the excuse of going back to the UK for a holiday (for which purpose they were returned their passports) and basically did a runner.

In reply to MikeTS:


My niece was born in Tehran during the Ayatollah's regime to my sister who was out there with my brother in law who is a British Quantity Surveyor building a dam.

Whenever my niece travels to the USA on business the word Tehran sends their immigration officers ballistic, and she gets hauled off for interrogation. Twice she has been detained in a police cell overnight. They always apologise eventually and release her, but their record keeping is crap, because they seem incapable of checking back to her last entry into the US!

My sister, her mother, recently visited Tibet on holiday. She had to go to the Chinese Embassy in London for a visa. Under "occupation" on the visa form, she put "China Restorer" (which is what she does, kiln and all).That caused quite an upset with the Chinese officials requiring painstaking explanations.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

So you see it's not just Saudi but a whole host of countries that have their own rules. It's just the way the world is I'm afraid.

In reply to MikeTS:


Particularly when in Saudi news reporting the word Israeli is always followed by the word Enemy.

In reply to Trangia:



I get stopped every time I enter the USA too, and as a minimum usually have to spend 3 hours in their "interrogation suite". Sometimes longer.

They would never tell me why. But after the 4th time I had a slightly more friendly guy escorting me back to the main concourse and he said, "I'm not supposed to tell you but you have the same name and birthday as someone convicted of terrorist offences in the UK".

So I looked him up and found this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/4026665.stm

How I've been into the US on both my passports several times, and each time I have my fingerprint taken and they have my picture and copies of both my passports...so why still stop me? As a technically sophisticated country, surely they can flag my passport numbers with a "that's not him" flag and cross-reference to my prints?

I've tried saying so a couple of times, and shown them my previous entry stamps, but all they say is "I can't discuss that sir, please come along with me" and shove me in the "black hole" for several more hours.

In reply to steve taylor:


Interesting....that's changed then. As LoS said, we were always told to put "Christian" down. Definitely NOT "atheist".

In reply to Rob Naylor:


Ha!! So your real name is James Greenwood then, caught you!!

In reply to Duncan Bourne:
I'm not sure what their train of thoughts is, as an atheist i really don't see how atheists can instill any form of terror in the attempt to control people, especially when they threaten you with eternal damnation if you don't join there cult. Also i wish Christopher Hitchens was here to see this :/

In reply to sebflynn:

Does your mum know you're up?

In reply to Rob Naylor:

I had a similar experience a few years ago when when I was travelling to Israel a lot on a British passport. As far as I could tell, in Hebrew my name was spelled like a photo-journalist who was sometimes critical. Again, I asked why they have to clear me each time rather than note my passport number for next time.

In reply to Lord of Starkness:


Probably good advice but I never had a problem getting a visa with 'none' in the religion box. What they say and what they do when they need foreign services are different things.

jk

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

At least Atheists are only thought of as terrorists. I was in the process of being sent to Saudi for work by Rolls Royce a few years ago. When it came to the talk on religious matters I raised the fact that I am a member of a Druid Order (mainly for drinking purposes). The guy sorting everything out was informed and they did a bit of digging and suddenly I was sent to Hucknall instead without further comment. I asked the guy later and he sad that after talking to his Saudi "fixer" it was concluded that I could be charged with witchcraft on entering the country and after being convicted I would have been beheaded. Apparently witchcraft has a very high conviction rate as people crawl out of the woodwork to claim that they were turned into a newt but got better. Once word spread among the RR workforce, the number of Witches, Wiccans and Druids soared overnight, nobody wanted to work in Shandy Sithole as they usually called it.

In reply to Rob Naylor:


It's what my employer has told me to state for the last 2 years or so.

It's funny that we avoid using the words Christmas, Easter, beer and ham in meetings with Saudis. I'd been doing it for quite a while until one of my Saudi colleagues asked me if I was going home for Christmas! I have learnt that 90%+ of Saudis don't give a monkeys about your religion or what you get up to on the compound (and that, in fact, some of them are quite jealous).

In reply to Duncan Bourne:




Border guard: "Welcome to Saudi Arabia. Do you believe in angels?"

Visitor: "Excuse me?"

Border guard: "Welcome to Saudi Arabia. Do you believe in angels?"

Visitor: "Errrm, no."

Border guard: "Why not?"

Visitor: "Well, I suppose it's not something I've thought a great deal about. I mean, they don't seem likely, and as far as I know there's no evidence for them. A bit like ghosts, faeries and trolls I suppose..."

Border guard: "You are aware that the Holy Quran was dictated to The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) by the angel Gabriel? The book is the literal word of God and the corner-stone of Islam, the religion upon which this country is based."

Visitor: "Right.....?"

Border guard: "You are aware that by calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion you are guilty of terrorism offences?"

Visitor: "I am now"

Border guard: "So, do you believe in angels?"

Visitor: "Sure do."

Border guard: "That's marvellous. Welcome to the Kingdom. Have a nice day."

In reply to steve taylor:


Unfortunately it is the <10% that are in charge of the jails and sharp swords that you have to worry about.

In reply to Clarence:


....not forgetting to mention the men with unkempt beards and short thobes - aka the Muttawaeen religious police.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

You escaped from Saudi then Coel?

In reply to steve taylor:


What ^^^he^^^ said. Plus i'd guess maybe a quarter of the Saudis I know are probably doing stuff on the side themselves. Whether that being going to Bahrain or brewing at home.

In reply to Frank4short:

Most of the Saudis I know are seriously into drinking - only a few are teetotal. However, one of the teetotal ones goes to Bahrain regularly for other, non-religious reasons

In reply to Removed User:

Witty -_-

In reply to steve taylor: It's amazing what you can do with a bit ingenuity and a friendly local chemical engineer with a computer controlled still. Happy Thursday night