/ Stimulants - caffeine, nicotine

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
ow arm - on 12 Apr 2014
First Ill say that Im not addictable to nicotine so I dont worry about that as a side effect.

Ive used some caffeinated gels on runs / cycles etc and found them ok but nothing much. Ive also used a product called exceed from myprotein which has a different stimulating effect and its is fairly good.

Ive not tried nicotine e.g. spray or lozenge etc on a run as a booster

Any thoughts or input?
lost1977 - on 12 Apr 2014
In reply to ow arm:

Where people have used it they tend to I'll opt for patches, tbh caffeine is actually probably better.
aln - on 12 Apr 2014
In reply to ow arm:

> First Ill say that Im not addictable to nicotine

Do you mean you aren't addicted to nicotine? I'd've thought anyone is 'addictable' to it.
ow arm - on 12 Apr 2014
In reply to aln:
i dont see the difference, well anyway i know im not as ive smoked for a little in the past but never been bothered about it, now i may have about 5 fags a year, and a few puffs on a cig but thats about it.

edit - perhaps my definition of addiction is different to yours? i couldnt imagine willingly going for the rest of my life without eating chocolate or drinking alcohol, but im not addicted to them in the same sense that people are addicted to nicotine, heroin etc whereby they HAVE to have it regularly
Post edited at 23:31
ThunderCat - on 12 Apr 2014
In reply to aln:

Funny thing though, addiction...

I tried to kick the tabs for about 5 years and on each attempt, I was crawling the walls within an hour of the last ciggie, racked with withdrawal pangs due to being addicted to it.

Then a mate lent me a book, made me see addiction in a slightly different way, and I stubbed out my ciggie and never had another. No pangs, no cravings...Odd.

Not sure what that says about addiction - real or imagined?

As to using nicotine as a training aid...it seems a bit mad to be honest. I thought nicotine was an insecticide, and was to be avoided at all costs? Or has it just been demonised because of the instant association with cigarettes? Not really qualified to comment on that but I'll be watching this thread with interest - I'm sure more knowledgeable bods will be along shortly.
lost1977 - on 12 Apr 2014
In reply to ow arm:

If you want to properly research it I'm pretty sure there are a few papers on pubmed
lost1977 - on 12 Apr 2014
In reply to ow arm:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24330705

Haven't read the paper but it should provide some useful information
lowersharpnose - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to ow arm:

I have tried illegal stimulants but not when cycling or running.

What do you want the extra for?
Ann S on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

Out of interest what was the book he lent you.

mwr72 - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

Same question as Ann S above, can you please let us know the book.

(Apologies to OP for the hijack)
lithos on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to mwr72:

10 to 1 it's Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking
ThunderCat - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to lithos:

> 10 to 1 it's Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking

That the one.
David Martin - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to ow arm:

> but im not addicted to them in the same sense that people are addicted to nicotine, heroin etc whereby they HAVE to have it regularly

I'm willing to place a wager on the fact that you are addicted to caffeine.

Try going 3 days without ANY coffee, tea, cola or chocolate. None of it. And then tell me that you weren't crippled by headaches, irritability, lethargy and an inability to concentrate for at least one of those days.

Most people are simply unaware of the addiction as they can constantly self medicate at the first urge to have a snack, cuppa, or whatever vice they use to get the kick.
MG - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to David Martin:

crippled! Can't say I have ever noticed anyone effected so strongly. Personally I don't notice at all if I don't have caffeine for a few days (normal consumption 1-2 strong coffees and a bar of chocolate a day.
coreybennett - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

What was this book called?
marsbar - on 13 Apr 2014
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060114232653.htm

In reply to ow arm:

Stimulants may not be a good idea with exercise.

I dont know about nicotine but I know that as part of harm minimising we were told to warn the yoof about the risk of stimulant drugs and exercise causing heart problems.
ow arm - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to David Martin:

an interesting point, i have one coffee a day, chocolate about once a week, id never thought about it but its possible. Ill try a few days without just out of interest.
ow arm - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to marsbar:

thats a good link, thanks, I know I dont need stimulants for exercise generally, but if theres a legal easy way to go harder faster stonger then why not!
Ill probably just stick to having a caffeinated gel or a pro plus to aid mental acuity if needed on longer outings.
marsbar - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to ow arm:

Sugar might help more than caffeiene. If that study is true then it is hindering blood flow so isnt helping.

David Martin - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to MG:

> crippled! Can't say I have ever noticed anyone effected so strongly. Personally I don't notice at all if I don't have caffeine for a few days (normal consumption 1-2 strong coffees and a bar of chocolate a day.

How often do you really go without though? Can you honestly say you go 3 days without so much as a drop of any caffeine in your diet? I'd be very surprised if you can, without noticing ill-effects (may be put down to other things). Most people don't even notice when they have taken something to aleviate the withdrawals.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Jim Fraser - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to marsbar:
> (In reply to ow arm)
>
> Sugar might help more than caffeiene. If that study is true then it is hindering blood flow so isnt helping.

Glucose is the thing.
Byronius Maximus - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to David Martin:


> Try going 3 days without ANY coffee, tea, cola or chocolate. None of it. And then tell me that you weren't crippled by headaches, irritability, lethargy and an inability to concentrate for at least one of those days.


I can relate to that in part; I tried going cold turkey from caffeine last year ahead of a 24 hour time trial, so it would have maximum effect on the day. I never experienced the headaches, but was more tired and in something of a foul mood! I had to go back to having 2 cups of tea a day, then one, then none - coffee was easy to kick out as I only drink that at weekends anyway. These days I only tend to have one caffeinated tea in the morning, then decaf for the rest of the day, unless I'm feeling in need of a boost (though I realise even decaf has some caffeine).

For what it's worth, the caffeine fasting worked an absolute treat; it was like rocket fuel when I took it on the day (in the form of flat coke)!
ow arm - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to Jim Fraser:

Glucose is quicker absorbed than sugar (glucose+fructose) but is quicker better?
MG - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to David Martin:

Well quite often no coffee for various reasons. Don't drink Coke. Can't say for certain about chocolate.
MG - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to David Martin:

Ill note now with care!
LeeWood - on 13 Apr 2014
In reply to ow arm:

Reaction to caffiene (or other stimulant) is quite variable for different folks. I normally have 3 coffees a day - but its a weak chicory mix. Even this seems to be too much (perhaps compounded with the odd crumb of chocloate) and has begun to set my heart in flutter so am taking abreak from it.

The problem otherwise with caffiene, even if you don't get head-ache withdrawals is that it creates a false reality of alertness which should otherwise be solved with more sleep etc. When you can feel bright and alert without reaching for a coffee (or a pill!) then you have correct control of diet and daily living habits. A bit idealistic perhaps ??
ow arm - on 14 Apr 2014
In reply to LeeWood:

I am the same, one coffee gets be buzzing, very sensitive to it i suppose.
I dont abuse it like some, but there are times when you need to be more alert - think long hike and technical terrain etc.
Tall Clare - on 14 Apr 2014
In reply to David Martin:

Interesting point - I'm about to find out how I react. In theory I don't have 'much' but I probably have four mugs of tea per day and one mug of coffee. I'm already feeling lethargic and struggling to concentrate but that's down to the iron issue (see other thread).
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 14 Apr 2014
In reply to David Martin:

interesting. I'm a prolific tea drinker (I would say 90% of all my liquid intake is white tea with no sugar) So i'm pretty sure I am very addicted to it. Having said that, if I ever have a coffee, i often get anxious and feel very shaky, so I avoid.

So i am assuming the caffeine in tea is different to that in coffee.Sure I would be better off drinking water, but I am drawn to tea like flies to fire.
ow arm - on 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

i researched this recently - coffee contains 2-3 times as much caffeine as tea (depending on the type of tea and how its brewed), but the caffeine itself is the same
David Martin - on 14 Apr 2014
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I'm the same, not really drinking much coffee as it hits me quite hard. Tea seems to be enough to get me hooked.

On a few dozen occasions now I've been put on a caffeine free programme under essentially clinical conditions. Usually 24 hours after (ie the next morning caffeine free) I start to feel it...sleepy, unable to concentrate, usually transitioning to a pounding headache.

Tea, coffee, cola, chocolate, all fix the symptoms within half an hour at any point during that first day of withdrawal, although I still feel a bit beat up for the rest of the day.

But without being able to medicate myself with those I'm usually utterly written-off until bedtime and only the next day do I start to feel like I can concentrate to any degree.

Ban it, I say!
Jon Stewart - on 15 Apr 2014
In reply to ow arm:

I don't think nicotine is actually a stimulant - it's a parasympathomimetic (binds to receptors in the parasympathetic nervous system which is activated in rest-and-digest situations rather than flight-or-fight) so almost the opposite in fact. Nicotine won't help you run faster etc.

If you want to try stimulants for a laugh, the internet is your oyster, from the barely noticeable to the no-sleep-for-week, there is a compound out there for your delectation.
Graeme Alderson on 15 Apr 2014
In reply to lithos:

> 10 to 1 it's Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking

Which I thought was a load of tripe. He kept saying it was not about will power, which of course it is. The book was no of use to me, thankfully I am now approaching 6 months using will power and nicotine lozenges.

I also listened to the audio version and all that I could hear/see was the guy from Total Recall trying to brain wash Arnie http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/File:TR_111.JPG :-)
ThunderCat - on 15 Apr 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> Which I thought was a load of tripe. He kept saying it was not about will power, which of course it is. The book was no of use to me, thankfully I am now approaching 6 months using will power and nicotine lozenges.

Well I can only speak for myself, which is why I recommended it.

Good on you for your progress so far - whichever method works for you is obviously the best method!

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.