UKC

Has anyone else here gone from touring on tele skis to AT gear? I did my first ever tour on AT gear yesterday after 19 years of only tele skiing. Coming down, particularly at the bottom through wet grabby snow between trees and rocks, was a revelation - even after not having skied with heels locked for 20 years, it was still easier BUT I think I found skining up and kick turning much harder. It's something about where the ski pivots under (or in front of) your foot that makes kick turning seem harder than on my tele skis. I'm using Fritchi Freeride bindings which might accentuate this effect, but it is still odd. I guess I've never really thought about why kick turns are called kick turns because with my tele bindings you don't really need to kick that much! But my mates were showing me yesterday the different 'AT approved' up hill turning methods where you do seem to consciously kick the ski to get the tip to come up enough to get it round.

In reply to TobyA:


Constantly...

And yes, it be them binders... tech bindings are a lot better, and Silvretta Pures & Markers somewhere between your diamirs and tech binders (can easily be measured on where the pivot is... under yer toe = good and the further away in the front = worse and worse).

In reply to TobyA:

I ski both. What you describe also happens when using free-pivot tele bindings like 7tm and Switchback. Where the binding is mounted on the ski also has a greater effect on kick turns with free-pivots.

You'll soon get used to it.

In reply to TobyA:

I skied on piste alpine skis for ths first time in 5 years a few months ago. It felt weird but also easier. (Tele is harder no doubt).

Free pivot tele bindings are the way forward for touring though.

In reply to top cat:

I have the original 7tms that don't have the pivot point -isn't that just the 'tour' model?- but anyway, I see your point exactly. And I did wonder about whether with tech bindings it's better - as HeMa says above - but everyone else I was with handing dynafits and they were saying they still need to kick to turn.

It was an interesting experience though. I've read people asking here about kick turn technique for ascents and had always thought - "isn't it straightforward? You just need to swing your foot around?" but I guess on AT gear you need to put a wee bit more thought into it!

In reply to Saor Alba:


Yep, that's my feeling too especially on less cooperative snow. I still fell over a couple of times but was quite surprised at what I could manage with my 'combat parallels'!

Couple of pics from yesterday:
https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/455375603848335361
https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/455375301212512257

In reply to TobyA:

Hey Toby - have skied Fritichis, diamirs and BD Riva Cable bindings. The Fritchis are a nightmare to kick turn with, especially if you have a wide tipped ski. Yeah you need to kick a little with Dynafits but only when it's super steep. I hardly notice it when I'm doing it. And yeah, AT is easier than Tele for sure...

In reply to TobyA:

That looks great. I had my new skis out at the weekend and skiing and turning felt easier. I got Scott Surf Air 168s and whilst less powerful than the BD Kilowatts they like to turn.

In reply to Saor Alba:

Recently bought some 22 designs axl tele bindings....have to say they are excellent for touring with the free pivot and have great control on the downhill with teles or paralell. ..can't bring myself to go back to fixed heels!

In reply to TobyA:
It's the one disadvantage with the Freeride binding and the Free Ride Pro in particular, kick turning is hard when the slope gets near 40 degrees. Seems to be because the binding doesn't open enough and also ice or snow builds up at the front under the toe further restricting it.
You do get used to it, but steep turns are harder than other bindings.

In reply to Gael Force:

I might have got the binding wrong - I've borrowed them from a mate - they are Diamir, I think the model is "FR" so freeride? Anyway, Dave who lent them to me said they don't have a spring in them that some bindings do which means they're a bit worse for kick turning than some.

In reply to AG:

I came back from Senja (some pics in my gallery!) a few days ago decided that AT gear is the way forward for me but then I had one more day piste skiing with my kids here in Finland on saturday and was teleing pretty neatly, so now I want both again!

I've been told that there is now a NTN binding that has a dynafit heel piece - so team them up with Terminator Xs and I can be free heeled when I want and clipped in when it gets rough. Perfect solution?

In reply to TobyA:


19 years of Tele and you suddenly want to go AT?

As a counter-point to your NTN, have you heard about TTS?

vimeo.com/34903783

In reply to Jonny2vests:


Pig-headed or just dense - you decide. Actually, over the years falling into tree wells lots in crappy wet melting snow in the birch scrub at the bottom of various Lyngen peaks whilst my friends on AT didn't made me consider the option! I must say last week in Senja I really did find the challenging skiing in soft grabby snow as you come back down to sea level much easier on AT kit and that's after just a few days on alpine gear 20 years back before I bought my tele gear - so how easy can it be when you're good?



Interesting although I'm not totally sure as to why? Lighter than NTN presumably?

In reply to TobyA:


I didn't write this, a friend did for a review:

PROS
- Lightweight as far as telemark bindings go with this level of performance. Bindings such as 22 Design’s Axl and NTN are heavier alternatives with performance that is similar or better (I have no comment on this as I have never skied them but just heard).
- Free pivot tour mode. This is compared to the original NTN which sucks and the new NTN which is better but still not completely free.
- Instant engagement. There is barely any ski droop and as soon as you lift your heel you are engaging the spring cartridges. Next time you’re on your 75mm system you’ll notice slop in the duckbill plus slop in the system so that the you have to raise your heel a bit before the spring cartridges engage.
- Performance. Each time I go back to the Targas or Switchbacks I have to re-learn how to ski and find myself going pretty much knee to ski to drive the ski. On the TTS there is so much power on tap that it isn’t an issue. I do find myself skiing more upright though.

CONS
- I had a rod break while I was out on a trip. I credit this to my homemade threads so that I could fit the boot better. Other than that I haven’t had an issue.
- It is not immune to snow buildup just like any other binding. In wet heavy snow you get snow under foot.
- Not immune to Dynafaff (i.e. chipping ice/snow from under the springs).
- Does not have a certified release mechanism. The NTN bindings don’t have a certified system either but it is better designed.