/ safe to make extenders from webbing??

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adamarkley - on 16 Apr 2014
Is it safe to use 1 inch webbing to make some long extenders for trad,if so which is the best knot? Any tips,hints?
ByEek - on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to adamarkley:

It is a bit old school, but yes, you can do as you propose:

http://www.animatedknots.com/waterknot/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknot...

Personally I would just buy some longer slings. Simpler and less error prone.
ewar woowar on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to adamarkley:
Just make sure it is the right sort of webbing not cheap nylon webbing for belts/straps etc.

;~))

(1" is a bit wide when used in smaller krabs- IE the load can be too far from the spine, reducing the breaking strain of the Krab quite substantially!)

As posted above for the cost Vs hassle/safety, it isn't really worth it.
Post edited at 12:06
Bob on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to adamarkley:

Before pre-stitched extenders became available we used to make our own using tape sold by the metre off the reel and tied using the tape(water) knot. Since most of us old-school types are still around I'd say it does work. The knot does add bulk though.

Having said that, it's as easy just to buy the ready-made ones, I don't think I'd bother making my own now.
top cat - on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to adamarkley:

Also pretty handy for threads 'cos you can undo them, thread and re-tie. Always worth having at least one on your rack.
Choss on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to adamarkley:

If you do make your own with water Knots, tape the tail ends down with electrical tape.
Gordon Stainforth - on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to Bob:

> Before pre-stitched extenders became available we used to make our own using tape sold by the metre off the reel and tied using the tape(water) knot. Since most of us old-school types are still around I'd say it does work. The knot does add bulk though.

Yes, that was the absolutely standard practice in the late 1960s. The tape knot did however have a habit of coming loose (we all taped the loose ends with coloured insulating tape, which helped to prevent the knot from falling apart completely), so they had to be checked before every climb.
Nick Russell on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to top cat:

> Also pretty handy for threads 'cos you can undo them, thread and re-tie. Always worth having at least one on your rack.

I suspect I'd have more of a job threading a single strand of 1" webbing than a doubled-up 8mm dyneema sling!
top cat - on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to Nick Russell:

> I suspect I'd have more of a job threading a single strand of 1" webbing than a doubled-up 8mm dyneema sling!

Maybe true, but you 'loose' half the length that way, whereas re-knotting gives you the full loop. And you don't have to use 1" tape.
Jim Walton on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to adamarkley:

I remember tying some tape knots when starting out, but as 4' slings can easily be made into a "Sling-draw" of a much more sensible length and then quickly extended to full length the tied sling is generally redundant.

As Gordon says, the tape knot comes undone quite easilk.

http://www.climbing.com/skill/the-alpine-quickdraw/
GrahamD - on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to Jim Walton:

I can guarantee that the knots don't come undone after the sling is repeatedly used for abseil anchors ! My favorite very long abseil rigging sling has pretty much fused the knot solid.
Jim Walton on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

If you soaked the sling in water and then tied the knot and allowed the sling to dry, then the knot did stay tight for much longer.
GrahamD - on 16 Apr 2014
In reply to Jim Walton:

I think in this case, the sling was only ever used for abseil anchors so it was heavily loaded every time it was used. Anyway I couldn't budge the knot even if I wanted to now.
needvert on 17 Apr 2014
In reply to adamarkley:

Sure, its safe if you don't screw it up :)

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web13w/ms-jm-speedy-stitcher-tool-review mentions making his own slings with 11mm dyneema.

Knotting and taping seems messy. I'd rather knot then stitch the tails down.

You may be interested in the beer knot too:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_knot

Numerous sources cite water knots need frequent checking.
pdone on 17 Apr 2014
In reply to adamarkley:

It is OK to use knotted tape slings but a problem with the Tape/Water Knot is its worrying tendency to loosen. Why not use a Double Fisherman's Knot? It is more bulky but does not suffer from this tendency.
jezb1 - on 17 Apr 2014
In reply to adamarkley:

I can't think of a single good reason to do this these days instead of buying a sewn sling.

alooker - on 17 Apr 2014
In reply to jezb1:

this!!!
Bob on 17 Apr 2014
In reply to jezb1:

> I can't think of a single good reason to do this these days instead of buying a sewn sling.

True. Like I posted earlier, it was a method to create extenders before the manufacturers cottoned on and produced the stitched versions.

Just a (self-made) product of their time.
Choss on 17 Apr 2014
In reply to Bob:

We used to favour tape over cord for slinging our big nuts as well.
Oliver Smaje on 17 Apr 2014
In reply to pdone:

> Why not use a Double Fisherman's Knot? It is more bulky but does not suffer from this tendency.

I don't think double fishermans is safe on webbing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

dyno-sore on 17 Apr 2014
In reply to Oliver Smaje:

> I don't think double fishermans is safe on webbing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Arrrgh; OK, go on then. I'll take a punt...

I believe that a double fisherman's bend is a safe way to form a circular sling in tape.

Furthermore, I believe that it is a safe way to join pretty much anything (rope-like) with the exception of maybe spectra cord... which should technically be joined with a triple, but is only tied with a double on my rack

Shocking H&S..!
Oliver Smaje on 17 Apr 2014
In reply to dyno-sore:

Ah, fair. Just remember my dad saying that him and his mates were nicknamed the anthropology death squad after one of them tied tape with a double fishermans (as well as them being anthropology students) :-)
Jonny2vests - on 17 Apr 2014
In reply to jezb1:

> I can't think of a single good reason to do this these days instead of buying a sewn sling.

Yeah. With modern sewn slings that aren't that expensive, why bother?
dyno-sore on 18 Apr 2014
In reply to Oliver Smaje:

Back in the day, I'm pretty sure the 'tape knot' was de rigueur for this sort of thing anyway.

There are still some fine examples of this in my old fella's garage. I think he keeps them so he can lecture me about how the original assent of nightwatch only required 3 slings and how using anything more was considered just pure witchcraft!

All mine are sewn; I wouldn't have it any other way ;-)

Now how about DMM inventing the 'jointless' sling?
pdone on 18 Apr 2014
In reply to Oliver Smaje:

> I don't think double fishermans is safe on webbing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I am not sure why you think this. If you look on the DMM website, at the topic on Knotting Dyneema, the strength of the Water/Tape Knot, Double Fishermans and Triple Fishermans, all tied in Dyneema tape, are compared; the Double Fishermans is stronger (safer?) than the Water/Tape Knot. I have no reason to believe this result would not be reproduced in the 1" nylon tape that was in the original question on this thread

In tape the Tape Knot is less bulky and looks neater than a Double Fishermans Knot but it does have the alarming disadvantage of tending to loosen and so become unsafe.

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