UKC

Easy Multipitch - Lake District

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 Matt_C9716 19 Apr 2014
Hi,
A couple of friends of mine have been climbing indoors a lot & have asked me if I could take them on an easy multipitch route in the lakes in the next few weeks sometime.

I have looked at the UKC article "Classic and First UK Multipitch Routes" which have given me a few ideas, such as Little Chamonix, Corvus, Giants Crawl & Troutdale Pinnacle.

I was just wondering what the belay ledges were like on some of these, as there will be 3 of us, and I have heard about the saddle belay position on Little Chamonix & was wondering if it is easy to get 3 people on it, as they do not want to lead any of it as they are not confident building full anchors atm, so we will need to organise ourselves on each ledge.

Or if anyone has any better suggestions that would be a great first multipitch up to around HVD.

Thanks
 John Kelly 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

middlefell butress has roomy belays
 sbc23 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

Route 1 at Scout crag, langdale. Nice bit of exposure on pitch 2. Not masses of protection but sufficient if you look for it.

Steve
 Ann S 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

The middle belay on Little Cham is very small and most people tend to lead on through to the top. The small belay would be very difficult to manage with 3 and if you lead through to the top your friends will be out of sight and comms will be difficult. If your friends have only climbed indoors I would therefore recommend that you forget this as an option. Troutdale Pinnacle has a significant traverse pitch which could prove intimidating for first time outsiders. Also Corvus has a shorter traverse. I have never done Giants Crawl so will let others comment on that. Both the other suggestions are excellent.

In reply to Ann S:

There's a big ledge before the traverse on Corvus and the moves are entertaining rather than gripping so would be ok as a mult-pitch intro. I would suggest Ordinary C rather than Giant's Crawl as it has plenty of gear, good ledges and clean rock. Giant's Crawl is easy enough but if one of your party was unfortunate enough to fall mid way up the ramp, recovery can be very tricky. A fall can end up over space with complicated rope management for recovery!
 conrad_o 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

Just did Gillercombe buttress with three, first multi pitch for one of them. Good belays all the way up. Easy walk off back to Honister is a bonus.

Corvus is good, might be a little cramped with three on the belay before the corner?
 stuart58 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:
I would agree middle fell buttress is the best route for 1st timers outdoors. Plenty of gear placements belay stances are good and u can do it in the rain. Only hard bit is the descent.
 John Kelly 19 Apr 2014
In reply to stuart58:

descent - good point
 John Kelly 19 Apr 2014
In reply to stuart58:

good point - for those with good legs, just keep marching up till you hit path (100m)
OP Matt_C9716 19 Apr 2014
Thanks everyone for the advice, I will look into those few routes mentioned
 Root1 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

I'd heard there was a fairly large loose block on the first pitch of Middlefell Buttress. So it may be one to avoid.
 John Kelly 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Root1:

wouldn't let that put you off

there are 5 other options to get up pitch one from VS to walking
OP Matt_C9716 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Root1:

Thank you Tripehound, I shall bear that in mind if we do end up there.
 Mark Eddy 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

Middlefell Buttress is a perfect place to start.

It's possible to belay just below the saddle on Little Chamonix, there's a ledge with room for 3 - although it's far from spacious.

Giants crawl & C Ordinary on Dow would both be good choices too.

The traverse on Troutdale pinnacle is pretty straightforward, maybe a tricky move after the traverse but then the rope can be above any nervous 2nd's. The final pitch is pretty polished too and feels quite stiff for a severe.

Brown slabs on Shepherds is worth a look, there's a few routes there within the grade and whilst the ledges aren't big they are adequate.

Mark
 The Norris 19 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

I did Little Cham last week and found all the ledges perfectly adequate for 3, though i would recommend running through the saddle belay, as that would be too small for 3 (its not that far to the top from the saddle belay). As mentioned earlier, communication is important for the final pitch, as it is a bit out of sight if you run the last 2 together. My wife and i managed fine though.
 Ann S 20 Apr 2014
In reply to The Norris:

My reservations about Little Cham for first time outdoor novices stems from an episode a few years back when a mate and I were behind a party of 3- a young male leader with two female seconds. He had led through the saddle and belayed from the top. Novice number one scampered across the crux and up like a real pro. Novice number two went into melt down and could not/would not follow. When enough was enough we had to intervene to extract the refusenik and ship her back to the bottom with the help of another party of 3 behind us.
 Offwidth 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

Middlefell is dull unless you are on the way up to stuff above (too hard to start - most bypass this - and too easy above and too short). I think Corvus is fine despite the traverse. Giant's Crawl is fine if you want something easier or a combo with another diff up there (despite descriptions above of a fall of doom: you would almost need to jump to fall off on that ramp),. Gillercombe is good if you want something a little harder (S). I've done all three with relative beginners. My only proviso is can you get people out of trouble if they start to get freaked out; if not do some single pitch first.
 The Norris 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Ann S:

I suppose it is an interesting crux, which indoor walls would not prepare you for, however the OP just wanted to know what the belay ledges were like.

The situation you describe with on Little Cham may well happen on any multi pitch route when out with beginners, I guess the leader needs to be prepared for that to a certain extent.

If the OP has a couple of 2 way radios, it would make communication a lot easier - its what we do, makes it all a lot less stressful!
In reply to Offwidth:
Giant's Crawl is fine if you want something easier or a combo with another diff up there (despite descriptions above of a fall of doom: you would almost need to jump to fall off on that ramp)

Sadly Giant's Giants Crawl has had a number of incidents including a fatality and although I would agree it's an easy romp if you have experience, however it's perhaps not the best choice for a first multi-pitch?
Post edited at 11:04
 bobpilgrem 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

Would agree with other poster- the traverse on Troutdale Pinnacle
probably not best choice for novice climbers.(also Severe)
Brown Slabs Direct a straightforward 2 pitch route at Sheperds-
with a comfy tree belay.
Have fun.
 Ann S 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

I have just put my brain into gear (happens about twice a year) and remembered dear old Wallowbarrow where the VD 'Trinity Slabs' ticks all the boxes required with comfortable belay ledges, 4 short pitches where comms and tight line to the seconds is easy to arrange. A slightly harder VD 'Wall and Corner' also 4 short pitches, could also be tackled as their next route. At the far left end is 'The Leaf' a 2 pitch VD with a gnarly start but again a good belay ledge and tight rope for strugglers.

 Offwidth 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Jeremy Ashcroft:

Climbing is a risk sport that needs a sensible approach, not portents of doom. I'm as sensitive as anyone with real 'hidden' problems on routes but I've seen or heard nothing on the ramp on Giants (that I would grade as a easy mod/scramble pitch) that could give problems to a capable party in good weather. So did those accidents have other causal factors such as bad weather, incompetent actions, bad luck, or was it the route? There are routes I do regard as dangerous for beginners and would not recommend: as an example, Crescent Climb on Pavey, which is bold and sandbag graded with dangerous rock (that has caused belay failure).
In reply to Offwidth:

Of the two incidents I've witnessed and then helped out on, both involved parties new to multi-pitch. Conditions were ideal apart from the usual sepage on the quartz sections of the slab. Both incidents ended up with time consuming recoveries for climbers at the scene and then later MR. One was a fatality. I fully agree that climbing is a game of risk, but giving people a heads up on issues associated with particular routes is hardly a potent of 'doom' particularly as the OP asked about party organisation on route?
 John Kelly 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Offwidth:
You're right, Middlefell is a little pedestrian, not the longest multi pitch and certainly has no sting in the tail. In addition its accessible, low altitude, south facing, great gear and should you encounter difficulties someone will be along any moment to help you out.
All in all perfect for a successful first foray into the world of multi pitch with uncertain seconds.

Oh and don't forget Old Dungeon Ghyll

John
Post edited at 14:46
 Offwidth 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Jeremy Ashcroft:

Anyone falling on that ramp in good conditions probably shouldn't be climbing single pitch let alone multi-pitch, so I'm calling very bad luck or incompetance. I'm sure the OP has enough sense to judge.
In reply to Offwidth:
> Anyone falling on that ramp in good conditions probably shouldn't be climbing single pitch let alone multi-pitch, so I'm calling very bad luck or incompetance. I'm sure the OP has enough sense to judge.

Whatever
 John Kelly 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Jeremy Ashcroft:

plus 1
 Offwidth 20 Apr 2014
In reply to John Kelly:

I'd rather take then on some of the amazing scrambles in the area like pike o stickle, jacks rake etc. MB is a boring cotton wool climb and a single pitch anywhere sensible and where the crux is the descent. What is climbing coming to when we positively recommend such routes and warn of the horrendous dangers of lovely romps like GC. ODG is good though but a bigger up for the NDG who made us food after closing on the rescue we helped out with after an accident on Crescent Climb.
 John Kelly 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

Yes but they don't want you to go with them, they want to do it themselves
slinky wizard 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

Hello Matt. I would be realy interested in the replies you get because I live in the Lakes and am wanting to take my 14 year-old son out climbing. Little Chamonix was the second route I ever climbed and that was 26 years ago. I think I climbed it as a 3 some. We also climed Brown Wall, I think it is called, but that is a single pitch. I was thinking of taking my son to climb these routes but after that I'm not sure what to go for hence I'm interested in what people reply to you. Best wishes.
 Offwidth 20 Apr 2014
In reply to John Kelly:

...and I want them to do something memorable if they feel up to it and you seemingly want to scare them onto something boring. Like most climbers I started on such routes and didn't need the cotton wool.
 John Kelly 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

you're confused, I have given no warnings or scare stories
 Offwidth 20 Apr 2014
In reply to slinky wizard:

I bet you still remember that Little Cham crux today, isn't it amazing. I resulted to climbing it at night and solo, chasing some equal to that memory. Also met Tony Greenbank on the route one of the true old stars of the Lakeland scene.
 Offwidth 20 Apr 2014
In reply to John Kelly:

For someone asking for a multi pitch climb up to HVD you recommend what is effectively a short easy bit of Diff then a long one pitch mod, not really a man for scare stories I guess.
 John Kelly 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

you are right - no mountain rescue, no falls, injuries or daring nightime missions just my opinion on what might well suit the OP
 popebenedictus 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

I seem to think that falling off the slab traverse on Troutdale Pinnacle could cause a few problems unless you can climb a bit harder than Severe to get back on route.
 Skyfall 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

I suppose you are offering opinions but your often v good suggestions get slightly devalued when you give rather OTT responses to anyone who challenges you in any way...
 Skyfall 20 Apr 2014
In reply to Matt_C9716:

You can belay as a 3 on any if them, even the saddle belay on Little Cham, you just need to find it amusingly bijou ..
 Offwidth 21 Apr 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

Not fussed, it's not an election for the most trusted advisor and I'd much prefer climbers think and reject my view rather than follow my view uncritically. Developing self reliance is important in climbing and a variety of robust views is good. Sure I think potentially spooking climbers from what I regard as a highly suitable climb for the competent, because people have had accidents (where these are likely nothing to do with the route), is OTT and as such is something I'm going to respond to, but the alternative view is also available. I also feel very underwhelmed by MFB (the route) and will always speak against its recommendation, just like I would for a boring restaurant that the best you can say for it is it at least has safe menu options.

 Skyfall 21 Apr 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

> I also feel very underwhelmed by MFB (the route)

I agree with this as it happens. It's just that you don't just give an alternative view, you seem to think yours is the only correct view. Never mind.
 Offwidth 21 Apr 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

Said MFB was OK as an approach to stuff further up (like Gimmer). Didn't say everyone else was wrong. Robust argument isn't a denial of the opposite view unless you choose to read it that way.

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