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I'm just looking for some opinions on a few things regarding money. I earn an average wage (28-35k) depending on overtime, and my wife works part time and pulls in around 8k. I have two young kids, one car (civic type r) worth about 4 grand, a 3 bed semi with a 120k mortgage and don't smoke and drink or have Sky TV ect. Now I don't expect anyone to be as open about their finances as I am, but I am interested how other people afford to actually do anything other than eat. I am extremely grateful for what I do have but at the same time I work my boxxocks off for it. How do people afford new cars, holidays and home improvements? I need about 20k just to get my house nice and a holiday is easily 2k. I'm not on a bad wage compared to other people I know who seem to do what they like. When I look at what some people spend it just doesn't add up. Am I missing a trick here or what?
In reply to stayfreejc:
One thing that might (or might not!) help is that it's futile looking at what others have - they might be racking up debt, they might have their finances arranged differently, they might have other pots of cash that you don't have access to.
Are your kids in school or childcare? If the latter then that'll eat up a ton of cash, I imagine.
How precise are you about budgeting and monitoring where your money goes?
(we're busy sorting out our finances and budgeting at the moment so it's all very much on my mind)
One thing that might (or might not!) help is that it's futile looking at what others have - they might be racking up debt, they might have their finances arranged differently, they might have other pots of cash that you don't have access to.
Are your kids in school or childcare? If the latter then that'll eat up a ton of cash, I imagine.
How precise are you about budgeting and monitoring where your money goes?
(we're busy sorting out our finances and budgeting at the moment so it's all very much on my mind)
In reply to stayfreejc:
Do the other people you're comparing yourself with have kids?
New cars often get bought on finance, I'm continually astounded by the variety of people you see driving around new BMWs.
I don't have massive experience with maintaining a house but £20k sounds like quite a large amount. Where's it going? Upgrades and decorating?
Do the other people you're comparing yourself with have kids?
New cars often get bought on finance, I'm continually astounded by the variety of people you see driving around new BMWs.
I don't have massive experience with maintaining a house but £20k sounds like quite a large amount. Where's it going? Upgrades and decorating?
In reply to stayfreejc:
Have you investigated your elinability for tax credits, with kids and potentially child care costs you may be entitled to something to assist with those costs.
Have you investigated your elinability for tax credits, with kids and potentially child care costs you may be entitled to something to assist with those costs.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Are you claiming working tax credit? It sounds like you would probably be entitled.
Other than that, if the kids are in nursery it costs a lot, you just have to hold on a few years.
And your mortgage is still pretty big, 3-4 times salary. In the old days, big mortgages tended to get inflated away, nowadays if you take out a big mortgage, it will be a big proportion of your outgoings for a long time.
Are you claiming working tax credit? It sounds like you would probably be entitled.
Other than that, if the kids are in nursery it costs a lot, you just have to hold on a few years.
And your mortgage is still pretty big, 3-4 times salary. In the old days, big mortgages tended to get inflated away, nowadays if you take out a big mortgage, it will be a big proportion of your outgoings for a long time.
In reply to stayfreejc:
i think your doing all right, there's loads out there living on tick, driving stuff they can't afford and the like. I heard a statistic the other week that the average family has something like a couple thousand in savings ... eh? how long is that supposed to last, and if so, where DO all the big cars come from then? Also, we hear about the increase in food banks, poverty etc, but how many people do you know that prioritise on big tv's, smart phones and sky. You are living within your means, welcome to a minority.
i think your doing all right, there's loads out there living on tick, driving stuff they can't afford and the like. I heard a statistic the other week that the average family has something like a couple thousand in savings ... eh? how long is that supposed to last, and if so, where DO all the big cars come from then? Also, we hear about the increase in food banks, poverty etc, but how many people do you know that prioritise on big tv's, smart phones and sky. You are living within your means, welcome to a minority.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Cheers for the replies. I don't pay for childcare as we are fortunate enough to have parents who look after the kids when my wife is at work. If I did have to pay I'd be broke! Also, in regards to tax credits, we are not eligible. Most of the people I compare myself with are those who are seemingly in the same financial situation as me, with kids. I'm in no way jealous, just curious and want to make the most of my money.
Cheers for the replies. I don't pay for childcare as we are fortunate enough to have parents who look after the kids when my wife is at work. If I did have to pay I'd be broke! Also, in regards to tax credits, we are not eligible. Most of the people I compare myself with are those who are seemingly in the same financial situation as me, with kids. I'm in no way jealous, just curious and want to make the most of my money.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Quite a lot of people will not be spending £20k on the house, that sounds like a lot. Also, not everyone will be spending $2k on holidays. If you look a little closer at the people you seem to be measuring yourself up against (totally bad idea by the way, just causes stress) you'll probably see they don't all have a new BMW and home improvements and lots of nice holidays and a decadent lifestyle. Most will have one or two from that list (and it sounds like you have home improvements and the holidays) but not the others. But it's easier to notice which ones they have than which ones they don't. So it's easy to build up a mental image of them all having all of them.
> I earn an average wage (28-35k)
The median wage in this country is about 20k...Quite a lot of people will not be spending £20k on the house, that sounds like a lot. Also, not everyone will be spending $2k on holidays. If you look a little closer at the people you seem to be measuring yourself up against (totally bad idea by the way, just causes stress) you'll probably see they don't all have a new BMW and home improvements and lots of nice holidays and a decadent lifestyle. Most will have one or two from that list (and it sounds like you have home improvements and the holidays) but not the others. But it's easier to notice which ones they have than which ones they don't. So it's easy to build up a mental image of them all having all of them.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Agree with those saying many have the fancy stuff on credit.
I also find it useful not to compare with those who have more than me, but those who have less. Example, we have a 6 figure joint gross salary. When househunting, I couldn't see why we couldn't have a large farmhouse in the country on our salary (admittedly we are in an expensive area), but "settled" for a very rural 3 bed semi. For a while it annoyed and depressed me. Until I went to work and saw all the people in the council high rises, the people living in what I see as squalid etc. Then it was more a case of "we may not have what we feel we should, but we're saved from n awful lot worse". Your average income seems to give you a nice lifestyle that s actually probably well above the true average
Agree with those saying many have the fancy stuff on credit.
I also find it useful not to compare with those who have more than me, but those who have less. Example, we have a 6 figure joint gross salary. When househunting, I couldn't see why we couldn't have a large farmhouse in the country on our salary (admittedly we are in an expensive area), but "settled" for a very rural 3 bed semi. For a while it annoyed and depressed me. Until I went to work and saw all the people in the council high rises, the people living in what I see as squalid etc. Then it was more a case of "we may not have what we feel we should, but we're saved from n awful lot worse". Your average income seems to give you a nice lifestyle that s actually probably well above the true average
In reply to stayfreejc:
Just a few thoughts. Do you always shop around for insurance quotes for house and car every year or go with the renewal quote, likewise utlities, mobile contracts etc?
How canny are you/your wife with the food shopping and how much gets wasted? Do you make packed lunches or buy sandwiches, pop in a cafe for coffee whilst out, buy takeaways and so on. Individually these are small costs but all add up. Does you wife spend much on clothes? Mine got into charity shopping when we had to tighten our finances and has saved a fortune, most of the stuff she gets has barely been worn, some of it never and still has the labels on it.
The only thing in your post that jumps out is 2K for a holiday, of course you can take whatever holiday you like but driving/camping holidays should come in way below that if you actually need to save money. Good luck.
Just a few thoughts. Do you always shop around for insurance quotes for house and car every year or go with the renewal quote, likewise utlities, mobile contracts etc?
How canny are you/your wife with the food shopping and how much gets wasted? Do you make packed lunches or buy sandwiches, pop in a cafe for coffee whilst out, buy takeaways and so on. Individually these are small costs but all add up. Does you wife spend much on clothes? Mine got into charity shopping when we had to tighten our finances and has saved a fortune, most of the stuff she gets has barely been worn, some of it never and still has the labels on it.
The only thing in your post that jumps out is 2K for a holiday, of course you can take whatever holiday you like but driving/camping holidays should come in way below that if you actually need to save money. Good luck.
In reply to stayfreejc:
When you have it it disappears faster than it should. I lived of virtually nothing as a PhD student, making considerable savings from a £14k income. Now I seem to be digging into those savings while on twice that salary, I don't really know where it's going.
I need to look at what I'm spending TBH, I could do with finishing working on the house so I can let out the spare room.
When you have it it disappears faster than it should. I lived of virtually nothing as a PhD student, making considerable savings from a £14k income. Now I seem to be digging into those savings while on twice that salary, I don't really know where it's going.
I need to look at what I'm spending TBH, I could do with finishing working on the house so I can let out the spare room.
In reply to pec:
On that front we use an app called YNAB that's about planning a budget, tracking your spending, and helping to save. Others I know who've used it have found it really helpful - there are quite a few similar things out there.
It's also free for the first 34 days: http://www.youneedabudget.com/
On that front we use an app called YNAB that's about planning a budget, tracking your spending, and helping to save. Others I know who've used it have found it really helpful - there are quite a few similar things out there.
It's also free for the first 34 days: http://www.youneedabudget.com/
In reply to stayfreejc:
Many folks live beyond their means. People in crap jobs will borrow a years wages to buy a car they don't need, stuff like that.
Perceptions play their part too in what "everyone" seems to have. I know plenty of folk who are on good wages, comfortably above national average, who would never dream of the £4k car or the £2k holiday. You don't tend to notice them though for obvious reasons.
Non-earned wealth probably plays a part too tho. Whether inter-generational wealth transfers or folk who lucked in on the property lottery. There is a link between earnings and spending of course, but it's masked by lots of other stuff. So...house paid off and no commuting costs or low child are costs = easy street. Get those three wrong and you're going to need a lot of cash to overcome.
The point about mortgages not being inflated away is important too. Older people don't seem to understand it tho...
Many folks live beyond their means. People in crap jobs will borrow a years wages to buy a car they don't need, stuff like that.
Perceptions play their part too in what "everyone" seems to have. I know plenty of folk who are on good wages, comfortably above national average, who would never dream of the £4k car or the £2k holiday. You don't tend to notice them though for obvious reasons.
Non-earned wealth probably plays a part too tho. Whether inter-generational wealth transfers or folk who lucked in on the property lottery. There is a link between earnings and spending of course, but it's masked by lots of other stuff. So...house paid off and no commuting costs or low child are costs = easy street. Get those three wrong and you're going to need a lot of cash to overcome.
The point about mortgages not being inflated away is important too. Older people don't seem to understand it tho...
In reply to stayfreejc:
Check your mortgage is good value. Low rates available at the moment and with prices starting to pick up you may get a better LTV. Even if it doesn't change your repayments, you may be able to shorten the period by a few years and save £10k plus. This might make you feel better about not saving actual cash every month.
Don't spend on fancy stuff for your house unless you really need to. If you are spending 20k, make sure it's going on the value not just look nice stuff. Laminate floor and chipboard furniture is a temporary fix and a waste of money.
However, I feel your pain.
Steve
Check your mortgage is good value. Low rates available at the moment and with prices starting to pick up you may get a better LTV. Even if it doesn't change your repayments, you may be able to shorten the period by a few years and save £10k plus. This might make you feel better about not saving actual cash every month.
Don't spend on fancy stuff for your house unless you really need to. If you are spending 20k, make sure it's going on the value not just look nice stuff. Laminate floor and chipboard furniture is a temporary fix and a waste of money.
However, I feel your pain.
Steve
In reply to stayfreejc:
People prioritise or sometimes they just get in debt. Your car might not be a new BMW, but it is still probably more expensive than you need, certainly to run. I earn more than you and your wife combined, but drive a dirt cheap heap of junk, I'd rather spend the money on other stuff. Most of my holidays are cheap UK camping trips, but every few years I go to places like South America or Japan, it is just the way you prioritise your life. You see people and you see the holidays, the cars etc. You don't see the debt, the worry or maybe an inheritance or other help from family.
Remember everyone's circumstances and needs are different. Don't worry about them.
People prioritise or sometimes they just get in debt. Your car might not be a new BMW, but it is still probably more expensive than you need, certainly to run. I earn more than you and your wife combined, but drive a dirt cheap heap of junk, I'd rather spend the money on other stuff. Most of my holidays are cheap UK camping trips, but every few years I go to places like South America or Japan, it is just the way you prioritise your life. You see people and you see the holidays, the cars etc. You don't see the debt, the worry or maybe an inheritance or other help from family.
Remember everyone's circumstances and needs are different. Don't worry about them.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Wow, thanks for everyone's replies! There's some good points been made. I probably am looking at other peoples situations to much. Money just seems so tight no matter how much is earned. My wages have quadrupled in the last 7 years but so have my outgoings. The point made a about making packed lunch for work is a good one. I wouldn't dream of spending £5 a day on a subway. That is one way to blow a weeks spare cash. I'm sure I'm getting the best deals I can on most things bill wise so don't think I can save that much their. Reading all these posts puts things into perspective. A lot of people probably do use credit cards and loans to help out. I just personally don't feel comfortable when I owe to much money. I agree that looking at somebody else's situation is silly as you never know the full story. Thanks again for the replies
Wow, thanks for everyone's replies! There's some good points been made. I probably am looking at other peoples situations to much. Money just seems so tight no matter how much is earned. My wages have quadrupled in the last 7 years but so have my outgoings. The point made a about making packed lunch for work is a good one. I wouldn't dream of spending £5 a day on a subway. That is one way to blow a weeks spare cash. I'm sure I'm getting the best deals I can on most things bill wise so don't think I can save that much their. Reading all these posts puts things into perspective. A lot of people probably do use credit cards and loans to help out. I just personally don't feel comfortable when I owe to much money. I agree that looking at somebody else's situation is silly as you never know the full story. Thanks again for the replies
In reply to stayfreejc:
My goodness. How do you not afford to do stuff? I am on a little more than the top end of your pay scale, but my wife currently earns nothing (just finished maternity leave for child 2) and child 1 goes into nursery 3 days a week. Our mortgage is also £191k which bizarrely costs the same as our £120k one we had 5 years ago! We have £200 a month each in spending money which for me includes getting to / from work on those days I can't face a 20 mile round trip on my bike + lunches.
An additional 8k would see us quite happy, but I guess this would be wiped out be equally depressing childcare costs. Yep - life sucks. That said, child one goes to school this September and I am budgeting on things being sh1t for the next three years. Then things become much easier.
Thank goodness for savings accumulated in good times.
My goodness. How do you not afford to do stuff? I am on a little more than the top end of your pay scale, but my wife currently earns nothing (just finished maternity leave for child 2) and child 1 goes into nursery 3 days a week. Our mortgage is also £191k which bizarrely costs the same as our £120k one we had 5 years ago! We have £200 a month each in spending money which for me includes getting to / from work on those days I can't face a 20 mile round trip on my bike + lunches.
An additional 8k would see us quite happy, but I guess this would be wiped out be equally depressing childcare costs. Yep - life sucks. That said, child one goes to school this September and I am budgeting on things being sh1t for the next three years. Then things become much easier.
Thank goodness for savings accumulated in good times.
In reply to ByEek:
Well 35k is an ideal year. That's with loads of overtime. On an average month I'll come out with £2000, of which 1350 is bills. Then I have to live for the month, run a car and pay whatever else comes up like birthdays or unexpected bills. My wife's wages cover food and nappies for the month. It leaves very little for saving.
It sounds like I'm in a similar situation to you. My eldest goes school in September but my youngest is still only 18 months old. Like you say, until both are at school it's hard to both work full time.
Well 35k is an ideal year. That's with loads of overtime. On an average month I'll come out with £2000, of which 1350 is bills. Then I have to live for the month, run a car and pay whatever else comes up like birthdays or unexpected bills. My wife's wages cover food and nappies for the month. It leaves very little for saving.
It sounds like I'm in a similar situation to you. My eldest goes school in September but my youngest is still only 18 months old. Like you say, until both are at school it's hard to both work full time.
In reply to stayfreejc:
I'm not surprised. You must be getting about 2.5k net between you. Allowing 1.5k for mortgage and bills, £500 per child, that only leaves you with about 2k from your overtime.
Even if you only spend £500 between both kids that only gives you another 6k.
I'm not surprised. You must be getting about 2.5k net between you. Allowing 1.5k for mortgage and bills, £500 per child, that only leaves you with about 2k from your overtime.
Even if you only spend £500 between both kids that only gives you another 6k.
In reply to stayfreejc:
I earn £12k and have a lodger [most of the time] which earns about £300 a month. Kids grown and gone, dog, cat and chickens now. Mortgage is going down as overpaid it as and when I can, bit here and there, no other debt. Managed 3 trips abroad this year and 2 last. All cheap mind, Spain, Dolomites, Alps etc.
Top tip; write down everything you spend, regular and daily, both of you. Then review regularly and decide if you really need it. My new year resolution is to buy nothing new for the year, well no toys etc. And if I want toys I sell stuff on fleabay to raise the money FIRST ! Not brought new clothes in ages, grow some veggies [and yes, vegetarian is way cheaper and healthier] and dont go out drinking etc. Also little things like no TV licence, tough with kids tho, as iplayer etc is fine. It all adds up. Make sure house is well insulated, makes a massive difference to bills. Really question options on every expenditure, it is worth the effort.
And yes, we are incredibly lucky living here and being able to think about such things, rather than just scratching a living. I also have several regular charities and choose to have 100% green energy.
Good luck.
I earn £12k and have a lodger [most of the time] which earns about £300 a month. Kids grown and gone, dog, cat and chickens now. Mortgage is going down as overpaid it as and when I can, bit here and there, no other debt. Managed 3 trips abroad this year and 2 last. All cheap mind, Spain, Dolomites, Alps etc.
Top tip; write down everything you spend, regular and daily, both of you. Then review regularly and decide if you really need it. My new year resolution is to buy nothing new for the year, well no toys etc. And if I want toys I sell stuff on fleabay to raise the money FIRST ! Not brought new clothes in ages, grow some veggies [and yes, vegetarian is way cheaper and healthier] and dont go out drinking etc. Also little things like no TV licence, tough with kids tho, as iplayer etc is fine. It all adds up. Make sure house is well insulated, makes a massive difference to bills. Really question options on every expenditure, it is worth the effort.
And yes, we are incredibly lucky living here and being able to think about such things, rather than just scratching a living. I also have several regular charities and choose to have 100% green energy.
Good luck.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Some good advice. We currently keep track of most things that we spend and it has helped. I write everything car related down and I refuse to buy lunch at work if I'm to lazy to make a sandwich that morning. Just got to stick it out until the kids are at school. One positive is that I am not in debt.
Some good advice. We currently keep track of most things that we spend and it has helped. I write everything car related down and I refuse to buy lunch at work if I'm to lazy to make a sandwich that morning. Just got to stick it out until the kids are at school. One positive is that I am not in debt.
In reply to stayfreejc:
I think what you are missing is a lot of debt. I knew a debt collector once (as a client) and got to know them well enough to basically ask them how they got to sleep each night what with the grinding in the faces of widows and orphans and all that..
They said that yes, sometimes, when you've gone in to a house where people have got nothing, to then hassle them about what they owe, you need a drink or three to be able to look yourself in the mirror, but most of the time they would walk up the drive past a line of beamers, to see the plasma telly and the leather sofas, all bought on credit.
> How do people afford new cars, holidays and home improvements? I'm not on a bad wage compared to other people I know who seem to do what they like. When I look at what some people spend it just doesn't add up. Am I missing a trick here or what?
I think what you are missing is a lot of debt. I knew a debt collector once (as a client) and got to know them well enough to basically ask them how they got to sleep each night what with the grinding in the faces of widows and orphans and all that..
They said that yes, sometimes, when you've gone in to a house where people have got nothing, to then hassle them about what they owe, you need a drink or three to be able to look yourself in the mirror, but most of the time they would walk up the drive past a line of beamers, to see the plasma telly and the leather sofas, all bought on credit.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Aye - it is a bit sh1t. If you are looking to save, look at reducing your shopping bill. We thought we had nailed it to about £80 (on average) but have made further savings by switching from Morrisons to Aldi. We also plan our meals very carefully and ensure leftovers are frozen or reused. We have also found our local butchers does a very good value Butchers wrap, which at £20 keeps us going for just over a week if meat is on the menu.
Aye - it is a bit sh1t. If you are looking to save, look at reducing your shopping bill. We thought we had nailed it to about £80 (on average) but have made further savings by switching from Morrisons to Aldi. We also plan our meals very carefully and ensure leftovers are frozen or reused. We have also found our local butchers does a very good value Butchers wrap, which at £20 keeps us going for just over a week if meat is on the menu.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Sounds like plenty of money coming in to me. So if you're asking these questions it likely means you don't have a handle on where it is going out to.
Start keeping a detailed breakdown of all spending and make sure your records reconcile with your bank statements so that you really are keeping track. This in itself is likely to have a direct effect as awareness of spending brings implicit control. Give it a few months and make some pie charts in excel, not forgetting big yearly bills or the car etc. If you can't put aside 2k/year hols, 4k/year savings and 3k/year towards renovations something is amis. The longer you can prioritise saving over cosmetic renovations the better. Forget about a new car, it's taking money and setting fire to it, more so it you go full moron and buy it on credit. To my horror I know working professionals who are dumb enough to do that.
Also, you should repost your question to mumsnet
Sounds like plenty of money coming in to me. So if you're asking these questions it likely means you don't have a handle on where it is going out to.
Start keeping a detailed breakdown of all spending and make sure your records reconcile with your bank statements so that you really are keeping track. This in itself is likely to have a direct effect as awareness of spending brings implicit control. Give it a few months and make some pie charts in excel, not forgetting big yearly bills or the car etc. If you can't put aside 2k/year hols, 4k/year savings and 3k/year towards renovations something is amis. The longer you can prioritise saving over cosmetic renovations the better. Forget about a new car, it's taking money and setting fire to it, more so it you go full moron and buy it on credit. To my horror I know working professionals who are dumb enough to do that.
Also, you should repost your question to mumsnet
Post edited at 09:22
In reply to wintertree:
Your suggestion is exactly what the budgeting software I mentioned above does - helps you to plan for the big things as well as the little day-to-day things.
Your suggestion is exactly what the budgeting software I mentioned above does - helps you to plan for the big things as well as the little day-to-day things.
In reply to stayfreejc:
I'm in a similar if slightly better off position (no kids, partner in full time work) and I know what you mean, there's never surplus money. I figure the house needs a lot of work so I'll just have to do it (hard when you have kids), if I couldn't I'd have to borrow or save. I 'waste' a lot too, mostly on things I could get cheaper but choose not to (food, cars and pub mostly), if I really had to there's always something that could be trimmed back to pay for something else. If I wanted a new car I'd have to save hard or get a loan which seems to be what most people do. Seems daft to me, I'd only ruin it and new cars lose value fast, old ones don't. Holidays don't need to be anything like 2k even with kids, there are cheap packages if fly-hotel is your thing and other great cheap options like car and camping in the uk or near continent.
jk
I'm in a similar if slightly better off position (no kids, partner in full time work) and I know what you mean, there's never surplus money. I figure the house needs a lot of work so I'll just have to do it (hard when you have kids), if I couldn't I'd have to borrow or save. I 'waste' a lot too, mostly on things I could get cheaper but choose not to (food, cars and pub mostly), if I really had to there's always something that could be trimmed back to pay for something else. If I wanted a new car I'd have to save hard or get a loan which seems to be what most people do. Seems daft to me, I'd only ruin it and new cars lose value fast, old ones don't. Holidays don't need to be anything like 2k even with kids, there are cheap packages if fly-hotel is your thing and other great cheap options like car and camping in the uk or near continent.
jk
In reply to stayfreejc:
I'd add the Pension Provision as another financial costing to consider...and qustion if everyone you see is meeting that provision well enough.
I heard on Radio 4 some time ago that we (all) are being squeezed financially: Inflation higher than interest rates, wage increases stopped/lower than inflation, credit more costly, prices increase.
So, I agree with OP - it seems tough these days - and I am learning to change spending/saving habits accordingly.
I'd add the Pension Provision as another financial costing to consider...and qustion if everyone you see is meeting that provision well enough.
I heard on Radio 4 some time ago that we (all) are being squeezed financially: Inflation higher than interest rates, wage increases stopped/lower than inflation, credit more costly, prices increase.
So, I agree with OP - it seems tough these days - and I am learning to change spending/saving habits accordingly.
Post edited at 10:03
In reply to stayfreejc:
On a 120K mortgage, one car family, monthly costs something like...
Mortgage 850
Council tax 100
Fuel (Gas/electric) 120
Water 30
TV 12
House insurance 20
Life/income insurance 20
Phone/Internet 30
Car insurance 25
Road tax 10
MOT/car service 20
Car fuel 120 (Depends on commuting etc)
Groceries 500 (Depends on lifestyle choices etc)
That's about 1900 regular outgoings monthly depending on car mileage and grocery bill - we easily spend 100-120 a week groceries without "treats" and do pretty much exclusively homemade cooking.
Have to consider clothing for family, house maintenance, car repairs, charitable donations, holidays, treats, gym memberships, meals out, family or friends weddings, birthdays, Christmas, possibly student loan repayments, need for second car, child daycare, child school trips, school stationary, computer repairs/upgrades, mobile phones, childrens toys/books, pets.
All these variable and sometimes optional extras are what makes or breaks the budget.
Regarding holidays, you could rent a family holiday home in North Wales for less than 1000 for a fortnight. That would be self catering so food would be same cost as staying at home and petrol ditto.
On a 120K mortgage, one car family, monthly costs something like...
Mortgage 850
Council tax 100
Fuel (Gas/electric) 120
Water 30
TV 12
House insurance 20
Life/income insurance 20
Phone/Internet 30
Car insurance 25
Road tax 10
MOT/car service 20
Car fuel 120 (Depends on commuting etc)
Groceries 500 (Depends on lifestyle choices etc)
That's about 1900 regular outgoings monthly depending on car mileage and grocery bill - we easily spend 100-120 a week groceries without "treats" and do pretty much exclusively homemade cooking.
Have to consider clothing for family, house maintenance, car repairs, charitable donations, holidays, treats, gym memberships, meals out, family or friends weddings, birthdays, Christmas, possibly student loan repayments, need for second car, child daycare, child school trips, school stationary, computer repairs/upgrades, mobile phones, childrens toys/books, pets.
All these variable and sometimes optional extras are what makes or breaks the budget.
Regarding holidays, you could rent a family holiday home in North Wales for less than 1000 for a fortnight. That would be self catering so food would be same cost as staying at home and petrol ditto.
In reply to stayfreejc:
"Money begets money" they say, and it's certainly true that the richer you are, the more easy it is to save money by buying longer lasting stuff, earning interest on savings and investments etc. and enjoying better terms on credit and expenses. Conversely the less you earn the more expensive life becomes.
Mrs RR has been off sick for six months with a back problem so we haven't been going out at all; it's amazing how the money has accumulated in our bank account. Stay at home, eat and drink wisely and remember that 70% of the cars you see on the road are company owned.
"Money begets money" they say, and it's certainly true that the richer you are, the more easy it is to save money by buying longer lasting stuff, earning interest on savings and investments etc. and enjoying better terms on credit and expenses. Conversely the less you earn the more expensive life becomes.
Mrs RR has been off sick for six months with a back problem so we haven't been going out at all; it's amazing how the money has accumulated in our bank account. Stay at home, eat and drink wisely and remember that 70% of the cars you see on the road are company owned.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Having gone from a situation where income exceeded outgoings and I saved cash very easily to income=outgoing and I never seem to be able to save, it seems that expenditure nearly always expands to eat up available income. I'd set a target amount and time-scale and then set up a standing order into a savings account to reach that amount. You'll probably be able to adapt expenditure if you set a realistic target (which is probably going to be disappointingly small) and if you can't then at least you can access the cash.
Having gone from a situation where income exceeded outgoings and I saved cash very easily to income=outgoing and I never seem to be able to save, it seems that expenditure nearly always expands to eat up available income. I'd set a target amount and time-scale and then set up a standing order into a savings account to reach that amount. You'll probably be able to adapt expenditure if you set a realistic target (which is probably going to be disappointingly small) and if you can't then at least you can access the cash.
In reply to Mutl3y:
I thought that... I pay 565/month on a 125K mortgage (but then I managed to stick on a variable rate that is currently 2.5% (0.5% above base rate - min 2.5%))
I thought that... I pay 565/month on a 125K mortgage (but then I managed to stick on a variable rate that is currently 2.5% (0.5% above base rate - min 2.5%))
In reply to stayfreejc:
It sounds a broadly similar situation to us - we both earn the odd £k more than those figures, but need to run two cars if we both work, so that's soon wiped out, and there are some childcare costs (but fairly small now they're both at school).
It's definitely the kids that seem to drain money! Unsurprising, but perhaps to a greater degree than I'd anticipated, and more unpredictable expenditure. It's stuff like a trip to the climbing wall that doesn't seem too bad for one adults, but when you're taking kids and getting far less climbing done, seems particularly expensive.
But it is about priorities. I buy a lot of second hand clothing (me & kids), sell outgrown stuff on eBay, shop for reduced food, mainly cook from scratch, etc. Virtually no eating out, etc. That leaves enough spare to be able to buy kids clothes, etc when they're cheap, instead of at full price when they're needed, etc, which I think helps on balance.
And still allows a few chosen "luxuries" - decent bikes for the kids, toys like an inflatable canoe (big-ish one off cost, but plenty of cheap days through the summer), carefully budgeted ski holiday, etc. Little going into savings as such at the moment, it goes to over-paying the mortgage a little.
So tight, but definitely bits we could cut back a little if needed.
It sounds a broadly similar situation to us - we both earn the odd £k more than those figures, but need to run two cars if we both work, so that's soon wiped out, and there are some childcare costs (but fairly small now they're both at school).
It's definitely the kids that seem to drain money! Unsurprising, but perhaps to a greater degree than I'd anticipated, and more unpredictable expenditure. It's stuff like a trip to the climbing wall that doesn't seem too bad for one adults, but when you're taking kids and getting far less climbing done, seems particularly expensive.
But it is about priorities. I buy a lot of second hand clothing (me & kids), sell outgrown stuff on eBay, shop for reduced food, mainly cook from scratch, etc. Virtually no eating out, etc. That leaves enough spare to be able to buy kids clothes, etc when they're cheap, instead of at full price when they're needed, etc, which I think helps on balance.
And still allows a few chosen "luxuries" - decent bikes for the kids, toys like an inflatable canoe (big-ish one off cost, but plenty of cheap days through the summer), carefully budgeted ski holiday, etc. Little going into savings as such at the moment, it goes to over-paying the mortgage a little.
So tight, but definitely bits we could cut back a little if needed.
In reply to Carolyn and others:
Yes, childcare costs will go down when your kids start school.
Best enjoy the few years of wallowing in your new found riches then, before they go off to university.
CB
Yes, childcare costs will go down when your kids start school.
Best enjoy the few years of wallowing in your new found riches then, before they go off to university.
CB
In reply to stayfreejc:
Could it be that those you are comparing yourself to have a much higher combined income? Yours is between £36k and £43k PA, but the vast majority of that is from your salary. A couple on £25k each will of course have a higher combined income than yourselves, although on the face of it may appear to be lower earners.
Sorry if I am pointing out the bleeding obvious but the first thing that immediately struck me is that your salary is good, but your joint income is not quite so good.
Could it be that those you are comparing yourself to have a much higher combined income? Yours is between £36k and £43k PA, but the vast majority of that is from your salary. A couple on £25k each will of course have a higher combined income than yourselves, although on the face of it may appear to be lower earners.
Sorry if I am pointing out the bleeding obvious but the first thing that immediately struck me is that your salary is good, but your joint income is not quite so good.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Like everyone else I can't understand the 2k holiday. I can remember going off to the alps every year with the family, car stuffed with a big tent etc. But has the proportion of house price changed? We bought an individually designed bungalow on half an acre for three times my income. Someone buying it now with the same proportion would have to be earning at least 140/150k . I think the mortgage was only around twice income. I think you might be right in suggesting the gap has got bigger. If it helps, even my daughter with a family income a long way into three figures has to watch her spending.
Like everyone else I can't understand the 2k holiday. I can remember going off to the alps every year with the family, car stuffed with a big tent etc. But has the proportion of house price changed? We bought an individually designed bungalow on half an acre for three times my income. Someone buying it now with the same proportion would have to be earning at least 140/150k . I think the mortgage was only around twice income. I think you might be right in suggesting the gap has got bigger. If it helps, even my daughter with a family income a long way into three figures has to watch her spending.
In reply to Mutl3y:
From my experience of regularly looking around, matching my circumstances I cannot find any considerable saving without ploughing my savings into it but then, well I wouldn't have any savings which I like to have incase of changing job circumstances etc.
It was only a guide for the OP anyway, his payments may be more or less depending on how much equity he has in the house.
Biggest mistake of my life buying a house.
From my experience of regularly looking around, matching my circumstances I cannot find any considerable saving without ploughing my savings into it but then, well I wouldn't have any savings which I like to have incase of changing job circumstances etc.
It was only a guide for the OP anyway, his payments may be more or less depending on how much equity he has in the house.
Biggest mistake of my life buying a house.
In reply to Mutl3y:
Depends on if he's overpaying to pay it off early. My mortgage is down to 70k but I'm shelling out £1300 a month. 4.5 years to go....
> £850 a month for a £120k mortgage...you need to shop around.
Depends on if he's overpaying to pay it off early. My mortgage is down to 70k but I'm shelling out £1300 a month. 4.5 years to go....
In reply to stayfreejc:
Lusting after material wealth will leave you wanting. Happiness is being content with your lot.
Besides the advice from others, maybe a mental re-adjustment alongside the fiscal ones?
I realise being skint isn't great, but making the most along the way will soften the pain.
Houses - About to embark myself, so keeping quiet on that one
Holidays - personally I find climbing holidays really cheap. I've never spent over a grand on a short 2 week holiday - and that includes spending money etc.
Flash cars - often a business/company thing. 2nd hand cars can be quite cheap and economical.
Lusting after material wealth will leave you wanting. Happiness is being content with your lot.
Besides the advice from others, maybe a mental re-adjustment alongside the fiscal ones?
I realise being skint isn't great, but making the most along the way will soften the pain.
Houses - About to embark myself, so keeping quiet on that one
Holidays - personally I find climbing holidays really cheap. I've never spent over a grand on a short 2 week holiday - and that includes spending money etc.
Flash cars - often a business/company thing. 2nd hand cars can be quite cheap and economical.
In reply to stayfreejc:
houses- learn how to build one saves a fortune
holidays- go camping its great
flash cars- its just a metal box to get to and from work,just get a reliable fiat
houses- learn how to build one saves a fortune
holidays- go camping its great
flash cars- its just a metal box to get to and from work,just get a reliable fiat
In reply to stayfreejc:
I do understand what you mean. I earned what I thought was a reasonable wage for ooop north and lived cheaply. ( no takeaways ever, no meals out ever, no calling for a coffee, no newspapers, heating on for 1 hr am and pm, all home made cheap lunches and teas, no credit cards, loans anything on hp, Camping holidays, darned socks, replaced zips myself, did own sewing and knitting, only one light on in the house, sit in jumpers rather than put the fire on etc etc) could never save and never had enough to pay into a pension. This was before CTC and working tax credit so couldn't claim those, cheap run about car with no loan. I used to wonder how the hell people in my area, friends etc managed a night out in manchester (we're having a meal and staying over), or their nice cars or holidays abroad. You're doing nothing wrong. As I've got older I realise people have different priorities, use loans and credit cards and a hell of a lot have inherited money and get money from parents. You can't compare as you don't know other peoples circumstances.
Stick with it, it does get easier.
I do understand what you mean. I earned what I thought was a reasonable wage for ooop north and lived cheaply. ( no takeaways ever, no meals out ever, no calling for a coffee, no newspapers, heating on for 1 hr am and pm, all home made cheap lunches and teas, no credit cards, loans anything on hp, Camping holidays, darned socks, replaced zips myself, did own sewing and knitting, only one light on in the house, sit in jumpers rather than put the fire on etc etc) could never save and never had enough to pay into a pension. This was before CTC and working tax credit so couldn't claim those, cheap run about car with no loan. I used to wonder how the hell people in my area, friends etc managed a night out in manchester (we're having a meal and staying over), or their nice cars or holidays abroad. You're doing nothing wrong. As I've got older I realise people have different priorities, use loans and credit cards and a hell of a lot have inherited money and get money from parents. You can't compare as you don't know other peoples circumstances.
Stick with it, it does get easier.
Post edited at 23:31
In reply to stayfreejc:
I actually find it quite a addictive trying to find new ways to save money, but something else always balances it out. In the last 6 months we have switched to Aldi which has almost halved our food bill and cancelled Sky TV. But on the flip side my wife is now learning to drive. I forgot to mention I have a company, so motoring has only cost me £50 a month in tax and about £20 fuel. Not any more though. I will also not be renewing my phone contract when it ends in September. Other than that I can't see anything else I could save on. I know my car isn't the most economical, but its still pretty cheap to run and it's reliable. That list of outgoings Thickhead made is pretty much the same as mine give or take a few.
Holidays before we had kids were really cheap. We used to drive to Scotland or Wales and camp or sleep in the car on the side of the road and spend nearly nothing. Our first holiday together 10 or 11 years ago to Scotland for a week cost £200-£300, and that included £100 fuel. We are only just getting to the position now with the kids that we could take them camping. I know we could of taken them camping, but I didn't want to wake a camp site up at 2 am with a screaming baby. Also all of my camping gear is lightweight backpacking kit so we would still have to spend quite a bit on new gear. But then again its a one off cost so it is probably a very cost effective solution. Has anyone on here taken a three year old and 18 month old camping? If so was it fun or just stress? I really want to start getting them into that kind of thing.
I actually find it quite a addictive trying to find new ways to save money, but something else always balances it out. In the last 6 months we have switched to Aldi which has almost halved our food bill and cancelled Sky TV. But on the flip side my wife is now learning to drive. I forgot to mention I have a company, so motoring has only cost me £50 a month in tax and about £20 fuel. Not any more though. I will also not be renewing my phone contract when it ends in September. Other than that I can't see anything else I could save on. I know my car isn't the most economical, but its still pretty cheap to run and it's reliable. That list of outgoings Thickhead made is pretty much the same as mine give or take a few.
Holidays before we had kids were really cheap. We used to drive to Scotland or Wales and camp or sleep in the car on the side of the road and spend nearly nothing. Our first holiday together 10 or 11 years ago to Scotland for a week cost £200-£300, and that included £100 fuel. We are only just getting to the position now with the kids that we could take them camping. I know we could of taken them camping, but I didn't want to wake a camp site up at 2 am with a screaming baby. Also all of my camping gear is lightweight backpacking kit so we would still have to spend quite a bit on new gear. But then again its a one off cost so it is probably a very cost effective solution. Has anyone on here taken a three year old and 18 month old camping? If so was it fun or just stress? I really want to start getting them into that kind of thing.
In reply to stayfreejc:
If I had to make savings from my list, then I guess TV, phone/Internet and life/income insurance would be the obvious ones to go.
Trying to use the car less - as mentioned completely depends on your job, location etc - would be potentially a saving.
Groceries is a huge drain, especially with young kids. Its not just food but everything else like nappies/toiletries that just adds up. Really does vary from one person to another though. We eat well and would rather eat good food than have a flash car.
No, haven't tried camping with young kids. Could be amazing with right equipment and good weather but equally could be a period of time from hell if not. Have done camper van though, that was very much fun but not cheap.
Holiday homes can be cheapish off peak season or try and get to know someone who has a spare house in somewhere like North Wales who will do you a good deal. Flights to Spain etc may be dirt cheap but then you're left stranded if no car hire with a young family.
When we were growing up 3 kids we always had a fortnight holiday (usually Switzerland) each summer in a caravan. Parents used to save all year for it and it was done very much on a shoestring. My in laws cannot understand how my parents can afford to live their early retired often vacation bound lifestyle but if truth be told they simply piss less of their income up the wall.
If I had to make savings from my list, then I guess TV, phone/Internet and life/income insurance would be the obvious ones to go.
Trying to use the car less - as mentioned completely depends on your job, location etc - would be potentially a saving.
Groceries is a huge drain, especially with young kids. Its not just food but everything else like nappies/toiletries that just adds up. Really does vary from one person to another though. We eat well and would rather eat good food than have a flash car.
No, haven't tried camping with young kids. Could be amazing with right equipment and good weather but equally could be a period of time from hell if not. Have done camper van though, that was very much fun but not cheap.
Holiday homes can be cheapish off peak season or try and get to know someone who has a spare house in somewhere like North Wales who will do you a good deal. Flights to Spain etc may be dirt cheap but then you're left stranded if no car hire with a young family.
When we were growing up 3 kids we always had a fortnight holiday (usually Switzerland) each summer in a caravan. Parents used to save all year for it and it was done very much on a shoestring. My in laws cannot understand how my parents can afford to live their early retired often vacation bound lifestyle but if truth be told they simply piss less of their income up the wall.
In reply to Thickhead:
Your calculations are indeed correct, but you are forgetting the fact that the OP has two children. So you take your £1900 in expenses + the discretionary stuff you mention. You then assume that most of his partner's $8k income will be wiped out by childcare and what you have is not a lot left over.
It is the great modern day paradox of having kids. If you have two people both earning £30k (not unrealistic) their joint income is £60k and they are probably very well off. Based on this you could easily conclude that they can afford to have kids. So they have child one. Full time childcare comes in at around £10k a year so no problems there. Then child two comes along and all of a sudden you discover that the joint childcare costs go to £20k a year which more or less wipes out the second income. Plus you have to ask the question of why have kids if you never see them. All of a sudden that two income couple is reduced to one income but with additional costs.
Sadly, because we no longer live in a society that can function with only one earner, family life is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain.
Your calculations are indeed correct, but you are forgetting the fact that the OP has two children. So you take your £1900 in expenses + the discretionary stuff you mention. You then assume that most of his partner's $8k income will be wiped out by childcare and what you have is not a lot left over.
It is the great modern day paradox of having kids. If you have two people both earning £30k (not unrealistic) their joint income is £60k and they are probably very well off. Based on this you could easily conclude that they can afford to have kids. So they have child one. Full time childcare comes in at around £10k a year so no problems there. Then child two comes along and all of a sudden you discover that the joint childcare costs go to £20k a year which more or less wipes out the second income. Plus you have to ask the question of why have kids if you never see them. All of a sudden that two income couple is reduced to one income but with additional costs.
Sadly, because we no longer live in a society that can function with only one earner, family life is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain.
Post edited at 09:00
In reply to stayfreejc:
Kids love camping, and I don't remember it being stressful at all - in fact I'd much rather go camping with young children than stay with them in hotels. Choose the right camp site - and the weather! - and they can wander around pretty safely. It's good if you can get to go with friends as well mind.
Even in the rain it can be cosy in a good tent with a few things for the kids to do - colouring books, toys and so on.
Kids love camping, and I don't remember it being stressful at all - in fact I'd much rather go camping with young children than stay with them in hotels. Choose the right camp site - and the weather! - and they can wander around pretty safely. It's good if you can get to go with friends as well mind.
Even in the rain it can be cosy in a good tent with a few things for the kids to do - colouring books, toys and so on.
In reply to ByEek:
What makes you think I don't realise he has kids?
He has already stated that he doesn't have to pay for childcare because grandparents are keen to babysit.
We are a one income family, as are both my brothers (well, the eldest sister in law has restarted work now the kids are older). It can be done, but definitely isn't easy.
The other thing to bear in mind is we all waited until we were in our 30s before having kids.
Assuming you are not a higher rate tax payer you should be getting some child benefit also? Approx 1000 per year for first child not sure for second.
What makes you think I don't realise he has kids?
He has already stated that he doesn't have to pay for childcare because grandparents are keen to babysit.
We are a one income family, as are both my brothers (well, the eldest sister in law has restarted work now the kids are older). It can be done, but definitely isn't easy.
The other thing to bear in mind is we all waited until we were in our 30s before having kids.
Assuming you are not a higher rate tax payer you should be getting some child benefit also? Approx 1000 per year for first child not sure for second.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Not easy, is it?
Lots of good advice on here.
I'd add to some of it by suggesting you try to work out what gives you the best improvement to your quality of life per pound spent, and prioritise spending your limited spare money on those things (not forgetting the other members of your household!) Let the other things fall by the wayside for now, and see if you can pick them up again later. (Obviously, it helps if you all like some of the same things...)
For me, it's doing and seeing things, and going places - mostly with my family, but a little bit of "me time" now and then (and the opportunity for my wife to have the same). Our car has to last, we don't have an expensive house, holidays are rarely abroad and often camping. I don't feel the need for as many 'big trips' when I'm managing to make good use of the weekends. We lose out on getting new cars, new clothes and kit, foreign holidays, and eating out - I'd like more of these things, but they don't make our lives as much better as getting out and about. You may differ, so work out what's best for you.
Some other tricks that may or may not help - you don't need a TV or TV license if you're happy watching the wealth of freely available content on your computer (legally, nothing as it's being shown on terrestrial TV unless you have a license.) A Netflix or Amazon Prime subscription legitimately gets you more films and TV that you'll be able to watch, for less than a license, too.
If you don't already, see what you can buy second hand or get as cast-offs - we've saved a huge amount on kids clothes this way, in particular.
You're probably spending more than you think on food and drink, and can probably reduce this significantly by being more organised about it. Unless you don't want to, if this is one of your priorities, of course!
Where do you shop for groceries? If you use supermarkets, you can probably save a fair bit without losing quality by going somewhere like LIDL or Aldi first to get what you can, then somewhere else for the rest of your shopping.
Not easy, is it?
Lots of good advice on here.
I'd add to some of it by suggesting you try to work out what gives you the best improvement to your quality of life per pound spent, and prioritise spending your limited spare money on those things (not forgetting the other members of your household!) Let the other things fall by the wayside for now, and see if you can pick them up again later. (Obviously, it helps if you all like some of the same things...)
For me, it's doing and seeing things, and going places - mostly with my family, but a little bit of "me time" now and then (and the opportunity for my wife to have the same). Our car has to last, we don't have an expensive house, holidays are rarely abroad and often camping. I don't feel the need for as many 'big trips' when I'm managing to make good use of the weekends. We lose out on getting new cars, new clothes and kit, foreign holidays, and eating out - I'd like more of these things, but they don't make our lives as much better as getting out and about. You may differ, so work out what's best for you.
Some other tricks that may or may not help - you don't need a TV or TV license if you're happy watching the wealth of freely available content on your computer (legally, nothing as it's being shown on terrestrial TV unless you have a license.) A Netflix or Amazon Prime subscription legitimately gets you more films and TV that you'll be able to watch, for less than a license, too.
If you don't already, see what you can buy second hand or get as cast-offs - we've saved a huge amount on kids clothes this way, in particular.
You're probably spending more than you think on food and drink, and can probably reduce this significantly by being more organised about it. Unless you don't want to, if this is one of your priorities, of course!
Where do you shop for groceries? If you use supermarkets, you can probably save a fair bit without losing quality by going somewhere like LIDL or Aldi first to get what you can, then somewhere else for the rest of your shopping.
In reply to stayfreejc:
You could also join one of the online freecycle groups: amazing what you can get for nothing.
You could also join one of the online freecycle groups: amazing what you can get for nothing.
In reply to stayfreejc:
Camping - we've taken both ours fro. young (although they did wake up in the night, it was only ever to feed, and given I was breastfeeding them, there was only a short squeak, no prolonged screaming whilst waiting). But I put my foot down at the idea of more than a weekend in the UK and it's wet weather - IMO, it's worth the drive to Fontainebleau and reasonably certain warm dry-ish weather.
Family camping gear - tents come up on eBay (lots being listed at the moment...) - set up a search for local ones, as most are collection only. Our first (decent but heavy family Wild Country one) cost £50, last year I bought a lighter one for £100. Beyond that, a couple of cheap air beds is about we bought. Maybe a roof box for your car to make packing easier? We still cook on a small stove, etc.
Sure, it's a bit more than wild camping (though mine fell for that for a night the summer they were 3 and 6), but still cheaper than £2k. Perhaps £25/night for a decent campsite with free swimming pools, £100 max for the ferry, fuel and tolls. Food's no more than at home, and we end up spending nothing else.
Or in the UK, maybe worth looking at house swap schemes? (NCT does one aimed at families). We've never done it as we've arranged stuff informally with friends from uni - eg we stay with friends in Cambridge if we want to do trips to London, they come and stay with us for the Lake District.
Camping - we've taken both ours fro. young (although they did wake up in the night, it was only ever to feed, and given I was breastfeeding them, there was only a short squeak, no prolonged screaming whilst waiting). But I put my foot down at the idea of more than a weekend in the UK and it's wet weather - IMO, it's worth the drive to Fontainebleau and reasonably certain warm dry-ish weather.
Family camping gear - tents come up on eBay (lots being listed at the moment...) - set up a search for local ones, as most are collection only. Our first (decent but heavy family Wild Country one) cost £50, last year I bought a lighter one for £100. Beyond that, a couple of cheap air beds is about we bought. Maybe a roof box for your car to make packing easier? We still cook on a small stove, etc.
Sure, it's a bit more than wild camping (though mine fell for that for a night the summer they were 3 and 6), but still cheaper than £2k. Perhaps £25/night for a decent campsite with free swimming pools, £100 max for the ferry, fuel and tolls. Food's no more than at home, and we end up spending nothing else.
Or in the UK, maybe worth looking at house swap schemes? (NCT does one aimed at families). We've never done it as we've arranged stuff informally with friends from uni - eg we stay with friends in Cambridge if we want to do trips to London, they come and stay with us for the Lake District.
In reply to stayfreejc:
I have got a civic type r and it is v expensive to run - if I needed to save money it would prob have to go
I have got a civic type r and it is v expensive to run - if I needed to save money it would prob have to go
In reply to stayfreejc:
It seems the most expensive thing about having kids is the inability to work full time due to child care costs. If my wife could work full time we would be comfortable, but she can't afford to work. At the one time in your life where you genuinely need money you genuinely can't earn it.
It seems the most expensive thing about having kids is the inability to work full time due to child care costs. If my wife could work full time we would be comfortable, but she can't afford to work. At the one time in your life where you genuinely need money you genuinely can't earn it.
In reply to Chris H:
I agree it's a bit more expensive than say, a 1.2 Clio but in the scheme of things I find it pretty good. But then again I don't do many miles so I'm only using a tank of fuel a month.
I agree it's a bit more expensive than say, a 1.2 Clio but in the scheme of things I find it pretty good. But then again I don't do many miles so I'm only using a tank of fuel a month.
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