In reply to FactorXXX:
> Have you got any evidence that a correctly tied bowline has caused deaths?
We can see how a 'correctly tied' bowline can fail due to cyclic loading. Because a Bowline knot without a stopper, is in fact, still a bowline. It is not tied incorrectly but is simply not sufficient as a tie in knot on it's own. If you want to take the route that 'The knot is only tied correctly if it doesn't fail' then we're talking about a meaningless tautology and you would essentially be saying any knot is fine as long as it is tied correctly. But I do know that a bowline is not sufficient (as a tie in knot) without a stopper knot, and is not as stable as a figure of eight (with or without).
> Purely anecdotal and luckily was spotted before it caused a problem, but I've seen more than one person tie the initial figure of eight in the rope, put it through their harness, got distracted and started to climb before completing the knot.
This is a slight advantage of the bowline, most of the time, when tied incorrectly it just falls apart. But one could just as equally get distracted and fail to add the fairly crucial stopper.
> Indeed, isn't that what Lynn Hill did?
I am not sure what knot Lynn Hill was using but possibly. I remember first being taught to come up through the harness with the knot as oppose to from the top. I think the reasoning of this, is that the rope would simply fall out of the harness if left untied.
> In essence, tie a knot correctly and it will work.
It won't matter how well you tie a granny knot, it will fail. However, do you think all knots are inherently the same? There are no differences in safety between any knot used to tie into your harness? Is the knot you use random or do you base your choice on something? If you do, what is that?
To petestack:
Surely this is Binary thinking. No knot is better in an application than another? Is the bowline really 'just as safe'? Or do you just mean, both are 'safe enough'.
Post edited at 11:48