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Hey,
Have been meaning to get to Carnmore Crag the past 2 summers and haven't managed, so it's high up on the list for this summer when we get a good spell of weather. I've trawled a bunch of older threads about the crag but still had a few questions;
Is it easy enough to link up Balaton in the lower tier with Dragon in the upper tier, anyone done it before? (On a side note is Balaton a worthwhile route? I thought it would be a nice way to get to Dragon, so would good to hear if it was a nice route on its own right).
My guidebook mentioned that you can ab down Carnmore Corner and then do a 20m 'easy' down climb to get to the bottom of Gob. Again, has anyone done this before? I actually have 60m ropes, so could potentially get a bit further down. The topo makes the down climb look as if it may be a little bit sketchy.
Alternatively, the guidebook also mentions you can scramble down at about Mod from the top of the crag to reach the base of Gob et al. Again, the guidebook topo makes this look a bit sketchy and the guidebook itself seems to describe it as a fairly unpleasant descent. Anyone done it, if so is it preferable to abbing down as described above?
From reading the other threads it sounds like both Gob and Dragon dry quickly after rain, but what about routes in the lower tier like Balaton and to a lesser extent Fionn Buttress? Do these take a few days to dry out?
Would be grateful to hear any replies!
Have been meaning to get to Carnmore Crag the past 2 summers and haven't managed, so it's high up on the list for this summer when we get a good spell of weather. I've trawled a bunch of older threads about the crag but still had a few questions;
Is it easy enough to link up Balaton in the lower tier with Dragon in the upper tier, anyone done it before? (On a side note is Balaton a worthwhile route? I thought it would be a nice way to get to Dragon, so would good to hear if it was a nice route on its own right).
My guidebook mentioned that you can ab down Carnmore Corner and then do a 20m 'easy' down climb to get to the bottom of Gob. Again, has anyone done this before? I actually have 60m ropes, so could potentially get a bit further down. The topo makes the down climb look as if it may be a little bit sketchy.
Alternatively, the guidebook also mentions you can scramble down at about Mod from the top of the crag to reach the base of Gob et al. Again, the guidebook topo makes this look a bit sketchy and the guidebook itself seems to describe it as a fairly unpleasant descent. Anyone done it, if so is it preferable to abbing down as described above?
From reading the other threads it sounds like both Gob and Dragon dry quickly after rain, but what about routes in the lower tier like Balaton and to a lesser extent Fionn Buttress? Do these take a few days to dry out?
Would be grateful to hear any replies!
In reply to CMcBain:
The scramble up to Dragon is fairly full on. On the other hand, to do a route up to it and Dragon and Gob in a day (if that’s the idea) would necessitate some fairly competent moving or a hell of a long day.
The abseil back down to Gob is fine; the scramble from there is no issue.
jcm
The scramble up to Dragon is fairly full on. On the other hand, to do a route up to it and Dragon and Gob in a day (if that’s the idea) would necessitate some fairly competent moving or a hell of a long day.
The abseil back down to Gob is fine; the scramble from there is no issue.
jcm
In reply to CMcBain:
Balaton is a fantastic route, combine it with Dragon and you have one of the best mountain rock days in the UK at that grade. Gob is also brilliant.
Don't know about Carnmore Corner descent but we abseiled down Dragon OK. The scramble up from the bottom is treacherous if wet and not much fun - I'd do Balaton again rather than the scramble. A quick drying crag other than obvious drainage lines and Gob is a good route to do in the wet as the first two pitches stay dry due to the massive roof.
Just go!
Balaton is a fantastic route, combine it with Dragon and you have one of the best mountain rock days in the UK at that grade. Gob is also brilliant.
Don't know about Carnmore Corner descent but we abseiled down Dragon OK. The scramble up from the bottom is treacherous if wet and not much fun - I'd do Balaton again rather than the scramble. A quick drying crag other than obvious drainage lines and Gob is a good route to do in the wet as the first two pitches stay dry due to the massive roof.
Just go!
In reply to Drexciyan:
Yes. Utterly brilliant. Do the second pitch of Balaton direct over the overlap (as described in GL's guide?) for the full effect. The only flaw is the careful scramble between them (a couple of rope lengths or so). When submariner and I abseiled in to do Dragon (very spectacular!)having already done a combination of routes, the ropes (50m I think) did not reach the bottom and we skipped the first little slab pitch (no great loss I think). Scrambling down would not appeal!
Carnmore gets lots of sun (unusually for a mountain crag)and is not very high, so could be a good early season choice with no midges (I imagine it would have been a good choice the Easter weekend). It's stayed pretty dry in the NW since, I think, so might even be a good bet this coming weekend if the weather's good - now there's a thought...... (disclaimer if it's sopping thought.....).
> Balaton is a fantastic route, combine it with Dragon and you have one of the best mountain rock days in the UK at that grade.
Yes. Utterly brilliant. Do the second pitch of Balaton direct over the overlap (as described in GL's guide?) for the full effect. The only flaw is the careful scramble between them (a couple of rope lengths or so). When submariner and I abseiled in to do Dragon (very spectacular!)having already done a combination of routes, the ropes (50m I think) did not reach the bottom and we skipped the first little slab pitch (no great loss I think). Scrambling down would not appeal!
Carnmore gets lots of sun (unusually for a mountain crag)and is not very high, so could be a good early season choice with no midges (I imagine it would have been a good choice the Easter weekend). It's stayed pretty dry in the NW since, I think, so might even be a good bet this coming weekend if the weather's good - now there's a thought...... (disclaimer if it's sopping thought.....).
Post edited at 16:15
In reply to all:
Sounds like combining Balaton and Gob would be a better way to go and then abseil from the top of Dragon to the belay at the top of the 1st pitch above the slab?
My plan was to do Balaton + Gob, then ab back down for Dragon on the same day. Then doing Fionn Buttress the next day (and Dragon if we didn't have enough time for it on the 1st). Perhaps i'm being a bit optimistic but if we stayed at the base of the crag and got an early start, I reckon we would be fine (The majority of the pitches are all 4x with a couple of 5a/b pitches, so i'm fairly confident we could move quite quickly!).
Thanks for the responses so far, glad to hear the crag lives up to it's reputation.
Sounds like combining Balaton and Gob would be a better way to go and then abseil from the top of Dragon to the belay at the top of the 1st pitch above the slab?
My plan was to do Balaton + Gob, then ab back down for Dragon on the same day. Then doing Fionn Buttress the next day (and Dragon if we didn't have enough time for it on the 1st). Perhaps i'm being a bit optimistic but if we stayed at the base of the crag and got an early start, I reckon we would be fine (The majority of the pitches are all 4x with a couple of 5a/b pitches, so i'm fairly confident we could move quite quickly!).
Thanks for the responses so far, glad to hear the crag lives up to it's reputation.
In reply to CMcBain:
>Balaton and Gob would be a better way to go and then abseil from the top of Dragon to the belay at the top of the 1st pitch above the slab
Not sure the order is important. Moving around in the central basin isn't an issue, but the 300 foot or so scramble up to it is.
jcm
>Balaton and Gob would be a better way to go and then abseil from the top of Dragon to the belay at the top of the 1st pitch above the slab
Not sure the order is important. Moving around in the central basin isn't an issue, but the 300 foot or so scramble up to it is.
jcm
In reply to CMcBain:
The approach slopes are tick infested, the midges are hell and the horse flies are murder, other than that you can't go wrong. Definitely preferable early season before the bracken gets up, unless you have unpalatable blood like Robert...
The approach slopes are tick infested, the midges are hell and the horse flies are murder, other than that you can't go wrong. Definitely preferable early season before the bracken gets up, unless you have unpalatable blood like Robert...
In reply to CMcBain:
That would certainly be an efficient way to do it and not at all unreasonable in a day if you are reasonably quick at the grade.
> Sounds like combining Balaton and Gob would be a better way to go and then abseil from the top of Dragon to the belay at the top of the 1st pitch above the slab?
That would certainly be an efficient way to do it and not at all unreasonable in a day if you are reasonably quick at the grade.
In reply to Drexciyan:
Ticks? What ticks?
> The approach slopes are tick infested, the midges are hell and the horse flies are murder, other than that you can't go wrong. Definitely preferable early season before the bracken gets up, unless you have unpalatable blood like Robert...
Ticks? What ticks?
In reply to Robert Durran:
And don't spill your dinner on the floor of the dilapidated barn, as even a scummy dirtbag climber wouldn't be able to keep that down.
And don't spill your dinner on the floor of the dilapidated barn, as even a scummy dirtbag climber wouldn't be able to keep that down.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Hmm. Are we talking a day from the bothy, or from the road? I did Dragon and Gob with an hour's drive and - what, a four hour walk? - either side, and I'd have felt that adding Balaton would have made for rather a tiring day.
jcm
Hmm. Are we talking a day from the bothy, or from the road? I did Dragon and Gob with an hour's drive and - what, a four hour walk? - either side, and I'd have felt that adding Balaton would have made for rather a tiring day.
jcm
In reply to Drexciyan:
Or your partner's...... especially if the remaining food has to stretch to an extra night!
> And don't spill your dinner on the floor of the dilapidated barn.
Or your partner's...... especially if the remaining food has to stretch to an extra night!
Picture of Balaton here
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=200775
From I what can remember (36 years ago) a great combination with Dragon.
Post edited at 16:55
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Ah, right, I was assuming camping or staying in the barn!
People of a serious biking persuasion/perversion can make it all the way to the barn, but even then it would be a big day from the road.
> Hmm. Are we talking a day from the bothy, or from the road? I did Dragon and Gob with an hour's drive and - what, a four hour walk? - either side, and I'd have felt that adding Balaton would have made for rather a tiring day.
Ah, right, I was assuming camping or staying in the barn!
People of a serious biking persuasion/perversion can make it all the way to the barn, but even then it would be a big day from the road.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
We walked in with tent and food for three days and I think it was about a 3hr walk - I'd have to check the timestamps on various shots to be sure. We weren't rushing but equally we weren't yomping!
Definitely worth doing Fionn Buttress if you are spending more than a day at the crag - http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=148855 - perhaps the best VS I've done.
We walked in with tent and food for three days and I think it was about a 3hr walk - I'd have to check the timestamps on various shots to be sure. We weren't rushing but equally we weren't yomping!
Definitely worth doing Fionn Buttress if you are spending more than a day at the crag - http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=148855 - perhaps the best VS I've done.
In reply to Bob:
We "sea" kayaked across loch Maree and then walked over the pass from Letterewe which was a wonderful way in (and avoided the horrible prospect of cycling to the edge of the forest).
> We walked in with tent and food for three days and I think it was about a 3hr walk.
We "sea" kayaked across loch Maree and then walked over the pass from Letterewe which was a wonderful way in (and avoided the horrible prospect of cycling to the edge of the forest).
In reply to CMcBain:
As others have said Balaton is not to be missed. From memory I think we did Balaton/Gob one day (after Fionn Buttress) then Black Mischief / St George simply because these combos most nearly put the upper route above the lower in each case. Black Mischief is well worthwhile, as is St George. We didn't do any abseiling at all just conventional descents top to bottom. Mind you all this was almost 40 years ago so have to take on trust not much has changed, due to rockfall or whatever.
We were there in late May and had perfect weather and no midgie or tick problems that I recall. The heatwave lasted long enough for us to finish the innings with The Needle as we moved South. The following weekend we did HeeHaw in a snowstorm!
As others have said Balaton is not to be missed. From memory I think we did Balaton/Gob one day (after Fionn Buttress) then Black Mischief / St George simply because these combos most nearly put the upper route above the lower in each case. Black Mischief is well worthwhile, as is St George. We didn't do any abseiling at all just conventional descents top to bottom. Mind you all this was almost 40 years ago so have to take on trust not much has changed, due to rockfall or whatever.
We were there in late May and had perfect weather and no midgie or tick problems that I recall. The heatwave lasted long enough for us to finish the innings with The Needle as we moved South. The following weekend we did HeeHaw in a snowstorm!
In reply to Martin Bennett:
We did Black Mischief and thought the most you could say for it was that it was probably preferable to scrambling all the way to the upper tier! St George is very good (though not in Dragon's class - few routes are) and at the OP's grade.
> Black Mischief is well worthwhile, as is St George.
We did Black Mischief and thought the most you could say for it was that it was probably preferable to scrambling all the way to the upper tier! St George is very good (though not in Dragon's class - few routes are) and at the OP's grade.
In reply to CMcBain:
I did Dragon and Gob in a day with the ab down Carnmore Corner, all seemed fairly straight foward. 16 hour day with the walk-in and walk-out. Good way to do it as it saves the hassle of lugging camping gear.
I did Dragon and Gob in a day with the ab down Carnmore Corner, all seemed fairly straight foward. 16 hour day with the walk-in and walk-out. Good way to do it as it saves the hassle of lugging camping gear.
In reply to Bob:
Says four hours here
>http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=777
but I'm a soft southerner; wouldn't surprise me if others managed three.
Robert's route has to be the way forward, though. If I ever go back.....
Incidentally has anyone done Carnmore Corner? The best line I’ve seen in Britain – makes Cenotaph look like a boulder problem – but I had the impression you’d need a very significant heat wave indeed before it would be dry.
The crag needs a Right Wall, really. I know there are some routes on the walls but there’s got to be scope for some more.
jcm
Says four hours here
>http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=777
but I'm a soft southerner; wouldn't surprise me if others managed three.
Robert's route has to be the way forward, though. If I ever go back.....
Incidentally has anyone done Carnmore Corner? The best line I’ve seen in Britain – makes Cenotaph look like a boulder problem – but I had the impression you’d need a very significant heat wave indeed before it would be dry.
The crag needs a Right Wall, really. I know there are some routes on the walls but there’s got to be scope for some more.
jcm
In reply to Martin Haworth:
>with the ab down Carnmore Corner
You don't mean that, surely? Isn't it about 200 feet and lands you in the wrong place?
jcm
>with the ab down Carnmore Corner
You don't mean that, surely? Isn't it about 200 feet and lands you in the wrong place?
jcm
In reply to Martin Haworth:
But misses the pleasure of camping (if early season midgeless) in one of the finest spots in the country. And the crag is worth more than one day at any grade.
> 16 hour day with the walk-in and walk-out. Good way to do it as it saves the hassle of lugging camping gear.
But misses the pleasure of camping (if early season midgeless) in one of the finest spots in the country. And the crag is worth more than one day at any grade.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
It has a Left Wall at E4 and a Cemetery Gates at E5
> The crag needs a Right Wall, really. I know there are some routes on the walls but there’s got to be scope for some more.
It has a Left Wall at E4 and a Cemetery Gates at E5
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
watch out if you ab down carmore corner its easy to get the rope stuck,plus take a pushbike
watch out if you ab down carmore corner its easy to get the rope stuck,plus take a pushbike
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I havent checked my guidebook, but unless my memory is failing me(quite possible) the ab was less than 60m and left a scramble across to Gob.
I agree that the crag deserves more than one day of attention but we were short of time and doing both routes in a day made for a very memorable day.
The walk in took us 4 hours to the barn, but we are slow, it was another 1.5 hours before we were tied on and climbing. 7 hours to do both routes.
I havent checked my guidebook, but unless my memory is failing me(quite possible) the ab was less than 60m and left a scramble across to Gob.
I agree that the crag deserves more than one day of attention but we were short of time and doing both routes in a day made for a very memorable day.
The walk in took us 4 hours to the barn, but we are slow, it was another 1.5 hours before we were tied on and climbing. 7 hours to do both routes.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Got home and checked - 0910 at the estate gate; 1220 at Carnmore House. Add twenty minutes for the walk from the car park to the estate gate?
There does look to be a lot of room on the wall between Carnmore Corner and Orange Bow but I think the latter heads out on to this wall for some of it's length.
Got home and checked - 0910 at the estate gate; 1220 at Carnmore House. Add twenty minutes for the walk from the car park to the estate gate?
There does look to be a lot of room on the wall between Carnmore Corner and Orange Bow but I think the latter heads out on to this wall for some of it's length.
In reply to CMcBain:
We did Fionn Buttress on the evening of the day we walked in.
Used Balaton for Gob the next day then Black Mischief into Dragon for the day after that.
I have to admit to being underwhelmed by Balaton and Gob but was blown away by Dragon. Just a fantastic climb.
J
We did Fionn Buttress on the evening of the day we walked in.
Used Balaton for Gob the next day then Black Mischief into Dragon for the day after that.
I have to admit to being underwhelmed by Balaton and Gob but was blown away by Dragon. Just a fantastic climb.
J
In reply to Robert Durran:
Maybe the 39 intervening years have served to tint my retro specs rose in relation to Black Mischief! Like you we waited for a pretty certain forecast and went for several days camping. I enjoyed every moment and every foot of the ten routes we did, though Fionn Buttress, Dragon and St George stand out. Wonderful place to stay and climb. The long evenings were almost as rewarding as the days. The walk out on the last evening, in silence, reflecting on 3 days of the best that British (or any?) climbing has to offer stays in my mind as one of "those" times in my climbing life.
Maybe the 39 intervening years have served to tint my retro specs rose in relation to Black Mischief! Like you we waited for a pretty certain forecast and went for several days camping. I enjoyed every moment and every foot of the ten routes we did, though Fionn Buttress, Dragon and St George stand out. Wonderful place to stay and climb. The long evenings were almost as rewarding as the days. The walk out on the last evening, in silence, reflecting on 3 days of the best that British (or any?) climbing has to offer stays in my mind as one of "those" times in my climbing life.
In reply to Martin Bennett:
A while after our visit I received an email asking if the author could use some of my shots http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/slideshow.php?s=carnmore for a document he was writing showing his kids and grandchildren what he got up to when he was young. He mentioned that the shots brought back memories of his ascent of Fionn Buttress back in the 1950s. An early ascent I thought plus the name looked familiar.
It was only looking at the guidebook that things clicked - it was Mike O'Hara who led the first wave of exploration of Carnmore and did the first ascent of Fionn Buttress.
A while after our visit I received an email asking if the author could use some of my shots http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/slideshow.php?s=carnmore for a document he was writing showing his kids and grandchildren what he got up to when he was young. He mentioned that the shots brought back memories of his ascent of Fionn Buttress back in the 1950s. An early ascent I thought plus the name looked familiar.
It was only looking at the guidebook that things clicked - it was Mike O'Hara who led the first wave of exploration of Carnmore and did the first ascent of Fionn Buttress.
In reply to CMcBain:
As for drying times, I got the impression that it dried very quickly...
After ten years of waiting for a dry spell we decided to go for it on a very stormy week. The crag appeared to be gleaming wet on the walk in but was just the rock reflecting the light as Gob was bone dry in the sunset.
It rodded down for a full 24 hours after that and we set off up the first pitch of Fionn Buttress in clearing skies with water pouring off the crag. The day blew dry and after the Red Corner the route was, again, bone dry!
As for drying times, I got the impression that it dried very quickly...
After ten years of waiting for a dry spell we decided to go for it on a very stormy week. The crag appeared to be gleaming wet on the walk in but was just the rock reflecting the light as Gob was bone dry in the sunset.
It rodded down for a full 24 hours after that and we set off up the first pitch of Fionn Buttress in clearing skies with water pouring off the crag. The day blew dry and after the Red Corner the route was, again, bone dry!
In reply to CMcBain:
At the risk of boring you with another glowing appraisal of Carnmore, but I feel that I have to add my tuppence worth to agree with everyone here about the place. I have been in several times, and think it has some of the best routes in Scotland. I have done Balaton and Dragon with the walk in and out in a day, back in 1980 I think (I was younger then.....)but subsequently have camped to make the most of the place. Wonderful memories, I am sure you won't regret going.
At the risk of boring you with another glowing appraisal of Carnmore, but I feel that I have to add my tuppence worth to agree with everyone here about the place. I have been in several times, and think it has some of the best routes in Scotland. I have done Balaton and Dragon with the walk in and out in a day, back in 1980 I think (I was younger then.....)but subsequently have camped to make the most of the place. Wonderful memories, I am sure you won't regret going.
In reply to all:
Didn't expect to get so many replies, it's really great to read about everyone's experiences of Carnmore. Hoping to head there in May (to try and avoid the midge) and stay for 2-3 days and tick off all the routes i've earmarked (Hadn't seen St. George - thanks for the recommendation).
That video of Orange Bow is fantastic, a route that makes me wish I could climb E5!
Many thanks for all the info, will make sure to come back to this thread and say how I got on.
Didn't expect to get so many replies, it's really great to read about everyone's experiences of Carnmore. Hoping to head there in May (to try and avoid the midge) and stay for 2-3 days and tick off all the routes i've earmarked (Hadn't seen St. George - thanks for the recommendation).
That video of Orange Bow is fantastic, a route that makes me wish I could climb E5!
Many thanks for all the info, will make sure to come back to this thread and say how I got on.
In reply to Martin Bennett:
It is, however, a flawed crag. With the exception of Balaton, the main function of the lower tier is basically just to enhance the exposure of the routes on the upper tier, and the grassy scrambling in between really is a bit of a pain. And the lack of shade really was a drawback in last July's heatwave. We had to retreat to a bone dry Beinn Eighe in shorts and T-shirt - sometimes life really is tough
> The best that British (or any?) climbing has to offer.
It is, however, a flawed crag. With the exception of Balaton, the main function of the lower tier is basically just to enhance the exposure of the routes on the upper tier, and the grassy scrambling in between really is a bit of a pain. And the lack of shade really was a drawback in last July's heatwave. We had to retreat to a bone dry Beinn Eighe in shorts and T-shirt - sometimes life really is tough
In reply to Robert Durran:
We did Dragon, Gob, Fionn Buttress and a couple of other routes one April (shorts and t shirts). July is just bad planning!
> It is, however, a flawed crag. And the lack of shade really was a drawback in last July's heatwave.
We did Dragon, Gob, Fionn Buttress and a couple of other routes one April (shorts and t shirts). July is just bad planning!
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