UKC

Good evening, all!

I've been taking advantage of the unusually good Easter weather and took my little group out for their first taste of the outdoor stuff. They loved the experience and as a result I'm looking to broaden their horizons and get them out onto as many different crags within striking distance of Manchester as I can.

To that end, I'm in need of a little advice:- what crags would you recommend where it's easy to set up a bottom rope so I can increase their confidence and start moving my group towards leading and seconding?


I suppose it would help if I mentioned a few details:
I'll freely admit right now, we're pretty much indoor-wall bred climbers and I do not feel remotely ashamed of that fact nor intimidated by transferring our skills (such as they are) to outdoor rock. It's all for the fun of the experience

I'm arguably the better climber of the group and have been building the belays we use. I helped most of my group get from scratch to where they are now. I second/top rope to HVS 5b, lead indoors to 6a (on a good evening) and top rope indoors to 6b+ when my knees hold. I haven't led outdoors yet but have a few (very) easy solos under my belt. The rest of my group are solid 5/5+ climbers indoors and all top roped their first V Diff and HS 4a routes outdoors with me recently and some even led their first 4+ indoors, too. My chosen venue was Hobson Moor Quarry thanks to the fact I've soloed some of the VD - S routes there and the bomb-proof anchors on top of the quarry. Really easy for me to build belays off.

I'm familiar with Hobson Moor Quarry, Brownstones, Rob's Rocks and Pex Hill. I've been eying up Wilton and Windgather but have no idea how easy it would be to set up bottom ropes at those crags.

With that all in mind, what would you recommend?



Disclaimer: I'm not here to argue for or against the merits/evils of top-roping. Whilst searching the forums for info I've seen enough less than positive views on the subjects already and am appreciative of peoples bad experiences with beginner groups like mine and their own personal views on what is the 'proper' way to climb.

I intend to move my people onto seconding when I'm fully ready to lead for them outdoors and for them to hit their first outdoor leads as they in turn become confident to do so. My first thought to my group is their safety so right now to build our collective confidence and technical ability and maintain that safety I feel that top/bottom roping and seeking the company/advice of those climbers more experienced than myself is the right way to go. My aim is simply to find good venues to make the transition smooth, safe and fun. I know enough about the UKC to know that if any resource can help me achieve my aim, it's you.

(my apologies if that sounded a little defensive. I just don't want a good natured request for some opinions to descend into another 'plague of top-ropers' or 'indoor wall-bred climbers today' style thread. I hope you understand and can forgive my mentioning it)

In reply to dl_wraith:

Windgather is fine for setting up top-ropes and is the classic beginner's crag. Castle Naze is also ok. Any of the usual Eastern-grit crags (Stanage, Froggatt, Burbage etc) would be fine.

Standard advice would be to avoid classic routes at busy times to avoid annoying people.

In reply to dl_wraith:

Be aware that the top of the crag at windgather isn't littered with options for setting up belays on some routes and some experience of placing gear is useful. Other than that it ticks a fair few of your boxes and is generally a very friendly place. If you go to castle naze then helmets are worthwhile as there is some loose rock at the top.

Don't worry too much about offending people. As long as you don't hog routes (or gear placements at windgather!) then you'll be fine! Climbing is all about having fun and a few top-roping trips can be good fun and, as you say, a good way to bump up confidence before moving on to bigger and better things.

Mike.

In reply to dl_wraith:

Hi Wraith, Windgather fine, Castle Naze ok (great climbing but nasty on top). Perhaps your group might also fancy a little sport climbing- Sanctuary & Playground areas of Harpur Hill in Buxton are good for learners/developers. All these are local to me, & I would be more than happy to help out/show you around if I am not working. Nik

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Castle Naze! Of course! I knew there was an option I was missing and that was it. I'd looked at the Wiltons, Windgather, Roaches and Stanage but couldn't remember the name of another one I'd heard of through the KMC members. Castle Naze was it - thanks

New Mills is over that way, too isn't it? (looks it up) Yeah, not too far. Guess I live in the right place for options.

Do you know, I've not yet met any annoying (or annoyed) climbers? Everyone I've met at crags so far has been friendly, helpful and willing to spend a few moments giving me a hand on my bouldering or on my ropework. Long may that continue, eh?

I'll always be willing to give way at a crag anyway. As my group aren't all quick or confident, I decided up front to give priority to better climbers or (as we're bottom-roping) those looking to lead a route. A few minutes here or there doesn't hurt me and there's always an alt route in my mind.

In reply to Otis:

I take it I'll need my nuts/cams to build a belay on top then? From photos, doesn't look like there's bolts or stumps like at Hobson Moor.

Cheers for the heads-up.

In reply to buxtoncoffeelover:

I would LOVE that, Nik! My QD's haven't been used in anger yet

I haven't been down Buxton way for a long while (not since my last airsofting trip, anyway) would love an excuse to explore. I'll drop you a PM with my contact details and if you find you have a little time I'd be happy to tag along. As I said, surrounding myself with those of greater experience is all part of the plan - I realise I am the inexperienced leading the inexperienced and wish to change that.

In reply to dl_wraith:

Yep-there's hardly any stakes or blocks on windgather for easy belays so you'll need to place gear. Personally I'd shy away from cams for rigging bottom ropes-there's a chance the movement on the rope could cause cams to wander a bit. If the placements dictate cams then far better to set up a belay at the top of the crag and bring people up towards you. This way there is less movement t on the cams and you're also up there to keep an eye on them.

In reply to Otis:
Hmm....after testing my cams at ground level (to see how they worked and what their limits may be) I can see the logic of that. Hadn't quite realised how 'walky' cams could be under excessive rope movement. Consider that taken on board. Thanks again, Otis.

In reply to dl_wraith:


As a general rule, yes you need nuts/cams for most places. There tend to be stakes only in a few places where there is no natural gear (and even then I'd usually back up stakes).

Well, thanks to some excellent feedback here I took my group out to Wilton 1 after doing a rekkie of the place, finding the belay posts and testing my nuts/cams for building a good, solid anchor on top of the prow.

After putting my little crew of four through their first top rope routes outdoor on the prow I have them hooked and hungry for more outdoor stuff.

After testing my sling, nut and cam placements beforehand I was able to confidently build the anchors and keep my little crew of newbies safe. Used nuts as primary and secondary anchors, cams where appropriate as backups (tertiary) or secondaries if nut placements were thin on the ground. They didn't even realise that they weren't ever on a bolted anchor or belay post.

I belayed from the top as suggested and saw no movement at all in my anchor placements all day. My belay-from-the-top technique was awful at first but it didn't take long to figure it out.

Many thanks for the advice and offers of assistance. Windgather, Stanage and Castle Naze all on our 'to-do soon' list and a visit to Harpur Hill for a stab at outdoor sport climbing (thanks again, Nik! I'll be in touch) is definitely something my group are excited to do.