/ Training for a Rock Over

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ian Ll-J - on 29 Apr 2014
Got a cool new slab project with lots of thin climbing, the crux for me (which I haven't managed yet) is a rock over onto the biggest hold. I'm not as young and flexible as I used to be so any top tips for training for success on a rock over would be appreciated.
Martin Wing - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

Stepping over baby gates did wonders for my flexibility and rock overs!
Seriously though, I guess any stretching like that will help.
AlanLittle - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs, but if you can get your foot onto the hold then flexibility might not be the problem. Are you sure you're getting fully sat on your heel, with all your weight off your trailing leg, before you try to stand up?

I spent some time working a route with a rockover crux with a mate last year, and he was really struggling until we realised he was trying to stand up as soon as he got his foot onto the hold, without properly shifting his weight onto it first.
jezb1 - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

Pilates lessons start at the Beacon tomorrow...
Timmd on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:
Lying on my back with my legs relaxed so they splayed outwards helped with the flexibility needed for rock overs. I get the gut feeling (which could be wrong) that you risk straining yourself stretching like that compared to going into a position and holding it, because it's dynamic rather than static, but splits type flexibility seems helpful.
Post edited at 19:49
ian Ll-J - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to AlanLittle:

> But if you can get your foot onto the hold then flexibility might not be the problem. Are you sure you're getting fully sat on your heel, with all your weight off your trailing leg, before you try to stand up?

I'm managing to get my foot on the hold with a good success rate, my trailing leg smeared on a very tiny hold and I am getting my weight over the heel. You may have a point that it's not a flexibility problem, where I'm struggling is with the upward movement. If I break the move into 3 parts it's the middle 1/3rd that I'm struggling with (I've played with the move on a rope from different positions if that makes sense)

Neil - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

We always used to practice standing up on one leg from sitting on a concrete post while eating a kebab. That was in Tremadog after a weekend in North Wales/evening up at the Beacon. I expect the posts are still there if you need them.
iccle_bully - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

Sounds like it's possibly a leg strength issue? I was rubbish at high steps/rock overs then spent lots of evenings doing one legged squats, stepping up on to the arm of the sofa (fortunately my partner is also a climber and it's also an old sofa!) and walking up and down stairs in a controlled way, not running at all.

AlanLittle - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

One-legged squats? If the middle range is your problem, then maybe one-legged half squats standing on a chair rather than full pistols from the floor.

Since you're reasonably fit & active, it's unlikely that you don't actually have enough muscle fibres to stand up on one leg, so a few short sessions might suffice to get your recruitment and neuromuscular coordination up to scratch.
johncook - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

Stand on a flat floor. Take a (long) step forward. Lean over the forward foot and lift the back foot and stand up, on the front foot. Keep doing this taking longer and longer steps forward. It will increase both flexibility, and the strength of the legs in standing, and also teach how to get your weight over the forward foot. Then start doing the same onto a raised foot placement. It is better than one legged squats as you can increase it in gentle increments.
johncoxmysteriously - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

> If I break the move into 3 parts it's the middle 1/3rd that I'm struggling with

"You know a move's hard when you hear climbers say they've done in it overlapping halves."

jcm
Jonny2vests - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:
What helped me was to think of hard rockovers as two distinct movements.

1. Rock into balance, often flagging the other leg.
Pause
2. Push in the desired direction.

Doing it in one movement seems to be less reliable for me because I sometimes drive upwards before I've found my balance point.
Post edited at 22:54
ian Ll-J - on 29 Apr 2014
In reply to Jonny2vests:

It's...
2. Push in the desired direction.

that I'm struggling with

the fact that the next 2 handholds are distant and tiny doesn't help. But I think that a few things mentioned above may be worth a try and just allow me to push just that much further. Got to be worth a try as I can do all the other moves before and after the rockover.
pasbury on 30 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

I used to try to stand up onto a table with each leg just putting toes on the edge of the table. But my knees were young then - I suspect i'd do some damage trying that sort of stuff now.
alooker - on 30 Apr 2014
In reply to johncook:

Sounds fine but I couldn't help thinking of the ministry of silly walks...
ChrisBrooke - on 30 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

I think having open hips helps with rock overs. You can get your hips in to the rock and your weight over the foot without tight hips pushing your centre of gravity back out from the rock. To this end any hip openers, like 'frogging' should help. Adam Ondra has some of the most beautiful open hips I've seen :) It's really noticeable in the videos I've seen of him.

Chris
Jimbo C - on 30 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

For me it helps to jump into the rockover, but appreciate that this may not be possible depending on the specific holds you have.

I find one legged squats nails and have started training for them by doing normal squats +40kg - too soon to tell if it's working yet though.
Paul at work - on 30 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

Are you able to get your nose over your toes, at any point during the move?
ian Ll-J - on 30 Apr 2014
In reply to pasbury:

> I used to try to stand up onto a table with each leg just putting toes on the edge of the table. But my knees were young then - I suspect i'd do some damage trying that sort of stuff now.

I tried that yesterday and it seemed to resemble the movement I'm after to some extent, my knees are ok ...it's everything else that's knackered!
ian Ll-J - on 30 Apr 2014
In reply to Jimbo C:

> For me it helps to jump into the rockover, but appreciate that this may not be possible depending on the specific holds you have.

I've tried that and it's essential to get the momentum,however I'm running out of power (in my leg) before reaching the point where I'm actually standing on the hold and reaching the next handholds (well fingernail crimp and a one finger smear!)
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ian Ll-J - on 30 Apr 2014
In reply to Paul at work:

> Are you able to get your nose over your toes, at any point during the move?

I've got a big nose and I'm getting it over my toes, it's the stalling on the upward push that's the problem.

Thanks all for some useful suggestions above, will try some of the exercises suggested, got nothing to lose and a new route to gain.
AlanLittle - on 30 Apr 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

Another good one for balance and flexibility is bodyweight (two legged) squats with your toes against a wall. Might have to start with them a few inches away and work inwards.
johang - on 01 May 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

Aside from tables etc, I found slacklining to be quite helpful with all leg-orientated power issues. Since stopping frequently slacklining about a year ago my legs are definitely more wobbly (side-to-side) when I run, and my rock-over ability seems to have diminished slightly.

Might be worth a look?
Rob Davies - on 02 May 2014
In reply to ian Ll-J:

Pex Hill would give you a lot of practice!
aultguish on 02 May 2014
In reply to AlanLittle:

Never heard of this one and just tried it! Can't do it with my toes against the wall, so cheers, I'll be incorporating this into my training :-))
Just hope the skin on my nose stays intact ;-)

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