UKC

OK, I know you can log your climbs as you please, but was just wondering how others logged a LEAD climb of a route previously seconded.
I have tended to go with LEAD rpt (clean no falls repeat ascent) but does this assume the previous ascent was also led? Would LEAD R/P (Clean after practice/worked) be more accurate or even LEAD with Beta?
I appreciate the real answer is that it doesn't matter one iota, but feel free to humour me!

In reply to The Ivanator:

I would say lead redpoint - and assume (as you say) that lead repeat is for a repeat lead, where the previous attempt was clean.

"Climbed."

In reply to The Ivanator:

I think I've put it in as RP or (with Beta) and just mentioned it for my own memory in the comment.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Since we both acknowledge that it doesn't matter... here's my own vague conventions.

If I seconded/TR-ed it with the intention of going back to lead it after figuring it out, I'll log it as RP (headpoint, I guess for trad).

If I seconded/TR-ed it ages ago, and can't remember anything useful about it (or didn't even remember I'd done it until I came to log it on UKC), I'll log it as beta. This is variously called (in varying degrees of non-PC) a retro-flash, geriatric flash, greypoint...

If neither of the above apply - that is, I remember some of the moves quite well, but never really had the intention of going for it as a headpoint - I'll put it down as repeat. To me, this doesn't really imply that you led it previously, or even climbed it cleanly previously.

All the above are accompanied by a comment, for my own record really.

In reply to The Ivanator:

In my logbook I would just say 'L' or 'OS L' for 'lead' or 'on-sight lead'. AL for alternate pitches on a big multi pitch climb, where it wasn't too relevant who led the crux pitch e.g if more than one crux. Or, 'L (crux)' where it was relevant. L could mean OS L, the latter being mostly for when I was partic proud of a climb that was close to my limit, having done it on sight with little or no beta. Often L meant repeating a favourite climb. Otherwise it was S = seconded. All very uncomplicated. Aim was to be as truthful as possible. Also useful when looking back and you couldn't remember if you'd led or seconded something.

In reply to The Ivanator:

.. then there was always TR = top-roped. Quite rare outside of S E Sandstone for me. Generally not something I was partic proud of.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

If it was something I happened to have seconded, and flashed, and was well within my leading capabilities, and then I lead it on a different occasion: lead, repeat ascent (and it should already be logged as seconded clean).

If I fell off, worked it out etc, then lead clean with practise.

If specifically top roped then head pointed, listed as such.

It's a fun game isn't it.

In reply to LJC:





Yes, … well we didn't have all that jargon about headpointing and redpointing when I started climbing. Another annotation my brother and I, and a few of our friends, would use, was the curving, upside-down arrow, like an upside-down J with an arrow point. Meant a fall - the bigger it was, the more dramatic. We were quite proud of those

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I think I picked that up from the Leeds University Union Climbing Club in 1969-. Club members always used that symbol in the Club log book for a "peel" (= a big leader fall). Bernard Newman may have invented it.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Always Lead rpt as, to me, practicing/working a route has to be a deliberate action. In principle I guess if the previous seconding had been with the intention of 'having a look' in advance of a subsequent lead attempt then I'd log it as Lead R/P, but I can't recall that I've ever actually done that.

In reply to The Ivanator:




In the situation you describe I used to log as "lead repeat", but these days I log as "lead with beta". I tend to use "lead repeat" for routes previously led clean, and "lead RP" I reserve for routes on which I've practised the moves to some extent. For what it's worth

In reply to The Ivanator:

Apparently I just put 'Lead'.
jk

In reply to All:
Thanks for all your thoughts - an interesting array of uses of the UKC logbook options, plus a little historical perspective (thanks Gordon).
Think I might refine my approach a little and use Lead Beta for climbs that feel an achievement on Lead and not just a given from having previously seconded.
i.e. If I might just have well have led it the first time then Lead rpt, and if I would have given the onsight attempt a wide berth at the time, but then returned emboldened by seconding OK/feeling stronger/more confident then Lead Beta.

In reply to The Ivanator:
I don't think its Lead RP, I think that's when you specifically practise something. I think if a VS leader leads a multi pitch diff they have previously seconded it would seem pretty weird to log it as a "redpoint".

I also don't think lead rpt means you have lead it before, just that you're doing the climb again. Otherwise on ukc there would be nothing in the list to log climbs you are seconding but have lead previously.

I'm pretty sure Lead Beta means its a flash so I don't use this to log climbs I've been on before.

So I log climbs like you describe as lead Rpt on here if I bother to choose anything from that list. I've probably also used this at least once to log something that would have been better described as 'ground up
' although maybe I'm pushing it a bit there.

ugh I'm obviously not getting enough climbing atm...

In reply to JHiley:

Your way of using the logbooks seems logical and self consistent. However, I don't think the categories are as black and white as you seem to suggest - I think the boundaries are blurred, which allows different climbers to apply the terms in slightly different ways.

In reply to bpmclimb:

As long as you're not claiming '2nd Onsight', it's all good.

In reply to The Ivanator:

I've been thinking about the same thing when logging some climbs I've led recently that I previously seconded a few years back, shortly after starting climbing. I normally log stuff like that as a lead repeat, unless it's something of note, like right at my limit, when I use RP, even if it's not actually worked in redpoint style. The routes I did recently felt just like onsights, except there was a psychological advantage in knowing I'd climbed the route successfully before that wouldn't be present in a true "with beta".

In reply to wurzelinzummerset:

Yup, it is routes that are at/close to my limit that I was thinking about when I posted - for these Lead rpt seems a little mundane - you know that going from seconding to leading these routes represents an altogether different challenge. For example I led my first E1 of the year at the weekend (Dan's Dance at FCQ) which I had seconded last year, but it certainly felt a whole different ball game on lead - bolder than I remembered reaching the tree at 2/3 height, and some of the gear I did fiddle in was far from bomber - fortunately I was relatively smooth with the climbing for once.

In reply to The Ivanator:

As it's only of interest to you it doesn't matter provided you're consistent. Your logbook for the route will show all your ascents, so the pattern should be clear.

I have a lousy memory for routes and often a previous ascent doesn't help me much - I can't always even remember whether I found it hard or easy. I have a few routes logged twice as 'clean onsight' as I'd completely forgotten I'd done the route before until I came to log it.

In reply to bpmclimb:

I'd agree with that actually, I attach more importance to it when I don't get much climbing done and I've been working a lot for a couple of weeks...
OS / Beta boundary seems to be the most blurry, I only log beta I consider genuinely useful. Rpt/ RP also seem slightly interchangeable, I just don't feel like I've ever redpointed anything.
Away from UKC I tend to just log stuff as lead clean (i.e. done) or not