UKC

As the main cyclist in the department I've been roped into helping plan a project, basically to collate information as part of the funding bid.

The idea is to have pupils build a range of bikes and test them in different situations.

The issue is the best way to source the bikes, ideally we'll have the kids build them themselves (with guidance) but I'm not sure of the best way to go about this; I'm coming to the conclusion that it would be easier to buy a few from decathlon and strip them down (perhaps, a road bike, mtb and hybrid). With maybe a few alternate parts to mix and match e.g. tribars, clip in pedals, aero helmet.

Anyway questions:

About how much is it to build a bike from parts?

What tools would we need?

What other variables could we test?

Any other ideas?

In reply to Swirly:


How long is a piece of string? If you buy all your parts new from retailers I doubt you get much under £500 per bike as the really cheap parts that come on cheaper bikes aren't so easy to come by. Better idea is to buy some cheap bikes (secondhand is a option) and break them down as you suggest.


Set of allen keys, possibly a small screwdriver, tools to fit the cassette to the wheel and to fit the bottom bracket (exact tool depends on part). Cable cutters, tyre levers, pump, grease. Hacksaw if you are dealing with a brand new fork with an uncut steerer (also getting the crown race of the headset onto the forks is often a bike shop job unless you have a headset press and getting the star-fangled nut in the steerer straight can be painful, so I'd avoid new forks if possible)



Service existing bikes? Building a bike can take a while and be fraught with unexpected difficulty is you don't have a supply of parts and tools at hand.

In reply to Swirly:

You could trawl places like CRC etc for budget Shimano stuff - Alivio, Acera and even Deore. I'm not too sure what would be gained from building different types of bike from scratch though, the actual building is pretty much the same.

Worth investing in tools though, decent allen keys and cable cutters will save a lot of frustration. Anti-seize and grease too.

In reply to Swirly:

Not sure where you're based but in Edinburgh and Inverness there were bike recycling charities that also ran building/maintenance courses. We sent a couple of pupils to the one in Inverness and they built some cracking bikes. If you have something similar local to you then they'll be a great source of parts and expertise.

By far the easiest, and probably not far off the cheapest, is just buying some complete bikes second hand. You could find some interest in measuring their performance before and after a complete strip and service.

If you have the time, you can find cheap bits on ebay. Another source could be local bike shops spares bin. You'll hit the jackpot if you can find one with a salesman who is good at up selling new bits as he sells bikes (so don't overlook the pricier shops). A mate of mine had a whole heap of handlebars as he almost always up sold narrower/wider bars than the factory standard.

I think I'd go for getting a load of second hand bikes, breaking them down into bits weighing the lot, inspecting for damage, full clean and rebuild. Mixing and matching as you go. Building wheels is fun and a bit of an art.

If you haven't found it already there is a wealth of knowledge here: http://sheldonbrown.com/

In reply to due:

The idea behind the different bikes is to test them under different conditions. I know it's pretty obvious that a mountain bike will be better on rough terrain and a road bike will be faster/more aerodynamic but the plan is to get them thinking about testing and designing the tests.

This (hopefully) will be a physics project aimed at around 20-30 14-18 year old girls and among the tests will be using accelerometers, windtunnels and various power/efficiency calculations in addition to the basics of designing experiments; obviously with that age range there will be a wide range of knowledge/ability.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions/advice, although I do my bike maintenance myself there is loads of stuff I haven't attempted or even thought of with something this size.

In reply to Swirly:

You might want to get in touch with these guys: http://www.thebristolbikeproject.org/

I guess you aren't near Bristol, but they run a programme for young people - http://www.thebristolbikeproject.org/our-workshops/young-peoples-programme/ - might be worth asking them for tips.

In reply to Swirly:

It strikes me that if you have to ask such basic questions that you are probably not personally able to conduct this project well enough. You should know most, if not all, of the potential difficulties and outcomes before you start. Kids are not capable of what you think they are as they will lack experience and skills to suit.

In reply to unclesamsauntibess:

It strikes me that you are a cock.

In reply to Swirly:


I'll second that. A consistent one at that. Every time there is a cycle maintenance thread he is here. Without fail

In reply to Swirly:

Lots of advice, most of it friendly, to be found on the Singletrack forum www.singletrackworld.com/forum
There is a lot of experience of bike projects on there, including people who have built their own carbon frames, adapted bikes for disabilities etc. I'm sure you'll get some good responses.

In reply to woolsack:


Unbelievable this guy isn't he???

When I scanned the thread and saw his name I was 100% sure it would be a negative post.

E

In reply to Swirly:

Buy a load of bikes from ebay in different states of repair and then create a stockpile of parts that the kids can work on, build and strip.

Where are you based?

Tools wise, nothing too dramatic, depending on how many "stations" you are setting up you would want a basic set of tools per station with some single tools to share for less common repairs - bottom bracket tool, crank puller etc

For testing, gearing is fun, so setting up bikes with different gearings and then getting the kids to ride and see how much difference it makes. Also comparing brake options (for mountain bikes - old cantilever brakes then v brakes then hydraulic rim (magura's), cable disk and hydraulic disk (with different pad composites). With the kids riding through different conditions to see how each brake technology works - so muddy water and cantilever brakes compared to hydraulic disk...

You can buy used spares on ebay for peanuts if you have time on your side, I'd suggest doing that or even asking on this and other forums for donations of kit for a good cause.

Good luck, sounds like great fun!

Kevin

In reply to Swirly:

Dont feed the Trolls

What a great little project, I'd have loved something like this at school. I've been riding 20+ years and maintaining my own bikes in that time and building / rebuilding some old 80/90's mountain bikes. Some good ideas. I like the ideas mentioned but am not clear what the aim really is. Is it to learn some of the mechanics of bikes or how to test the machines? Both could be applicable I guess. Whats the aim?

In reply to Swirly:

Great idea!
Its just what me and my mates did as kids - but we used to scavenge old bikes or bits of bikes to improve (in our eyes) what we already had. In those days my overwhelming achievement was the conversion of my Dawes Chevron 5-speed to a 10-speed using parts derived from a skipped Claude Butler.
I would go with second-hand to keep cost down, maybe find if parents have old bikes in a shed.
How good a relationship do you have with your LBS? They usually have loads of old bits knocking about and may be keen to get involved?
I'm sure the kids will have fun!
Good luck

N

In reply to Enty:



Ditto.

Great project. I built my first bike whilst in secondary school - it cost a flipping fortune even with some generous discounts from local bike shop man (pre Tim Berners-Lee!) but the skills have lasted a lifetime.

In reply to Swirly:

Get the cheap,bikes in the local papers. Got to the bike fairs. Place an advert in local press explaining what you are doing and ask for donations. Any old cheap will do for what you want.

In reply to Swirly:

Police regularly sell off stolen bikes that nobody has claimed.

In reply to Swirly:

Sounds like an interesting project. What sort of organisation do you work in that you're able to play with windtunnels? I'm having fun envisioning the various frankenbikes that will be created as part of this!

The length of time available for the building is worth considering when you're deciding what parts and tools to get. For example if they're just going to be visiting for the day then you probably don't want to have to do much to the drive train, as that tends to take most folk a while to learn to adjust, but if it were a longer project it could be worth while playing around with different gearing options.

By buying full bikes and stripping them down you will certainly be cheaper and avoid a lot of the jobs requiring more specialist tools (headsets, bottom brackets etc) since they will have already been done.

With a set of allen keys, spanners, screwdrivers, tyre levers and a track pump you could change most of the parts on a bike. Throw in a chain tool, crank extractor, cassette tool, chain whip and a decent set of cable cutters and you'll be able to change the drive train too. Actually come to think of it a chain tool and cable cutters are probably a good idea anyway for maintaining your fleet. Beyond that I wouldn't buy anything unless you're sure you need it.
Bike stands are very useful and would make you look more professional, however with 20-30 pupils I suspect you'll always have a few spare pairs of hands to hold stuff steady!

Other ideas for tests could be things like: how well the bike can transport goods, manoeuvrability through obstacles, braking ability, traction on different surfaces.
Other possible variables: Saddle height, tyre design/pressure, clothing worn, handle bar width.

It could also be worth having a collection of daft accessories like bells/horns, spokey-dokes or flags for them to personalise their creations.

In reply to Orgsm:


Yes and no. The original quality of the parts isn't particularly important but the current condition does matter. You could very quickly end up with a collection which is so worn and rusted that it's a nightmare to work with. Second hand is definitely worth looking at but I would do so with a clear idea of what condition you're prepared to work with.

There are various bike recycling schemes scattered around the country who tend to have a lot of helpful types who would be able to supply you with second hand parts in decent nick.

In reply to Swirly:

I would probably suggest sticking with getting whole bikes of different types from whatever source, stripping them down to component parts and rebuilding from there - at least you'll know you'll get a working bike out of it and won't have to worry about compatibility issues to start with.

Probably worth photographing each bike in detail so you have a reference of what went where and how.

Don't strip them too far - some things might not be easy to put back together.

Once stripped down, keep all the parts from each bike together, but take the opportunity to compare them - different headsets, etc. Might be interesting to weigh each component, too.

Don't forget left handed screw threads on the left pedal and, depending on type, the left side of the bottom bracket.

Park Tools website is also useful.