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Given that this is the first time that the second greatest road race is starting in the UK I'm surprised we haven't seen more media attention this side of the water. I'm not even sure if we'll be able to see any of the BBC coverage.
Should be a more open race than last years Giro, which despite the Wiggins hype was always Nibali's to lose.
I'm going Evans, Quintana, Rodriguez - but I reckon it'll be close. Cuddles is the man on form, wheras we've hardly seen Quintana since last years ToB. It's remarkable that Purito still hasn't won a grand tour (or a WC) but I'm not sure he'll break his duck this time around.
Would be great to see Dan Martin be the first British-born rider to win a GT, but even if he can steer clear of ballpoint pens I still reckon he'll be doing well to get top-10
Should be a more open race than last years Giro, which despite the Wiggins hype was always Nibali's to lose.
I'm going Evans, Quintana, Rodriguez - but I reckon it'll be close. Cuddles is the man on form, wheras we've hardly seen Quintana since last years ToB. It's remarkable that Purito still hasn't won a grand tour (or a WC) but I'm not sure he'll break his duck this time around.
Would be great to see Dan Martin be the first British-born rider to win a GT, but even if he can steer clear of ballpoint pens I still reckon he'll be doing well to get top-10
In reply to Chris the Tall:
I'd like to see Evans do it but not convinced he wont crack and lose minutes on a climb. Remember the Zoncolan in 2010?
Pizza in oven and birra Moretti in hand!
I'd like to see Evans do it but not convinced he wont crack and lose minutes on a climb. Remember the Zoncolan in 2010?
Pizza in oven and birra Moretti in hand!
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Hard to see past that trio plus Uran.
The outsiders are a bit of a funny bunch. Would love to see Roche and Martin do well but realistically top 10 and a stage would be a good performance. Martin more likely to take stages and Roche for the GC.
Then there's the Italian old guard Basso, Cunego and Scarponi. Despite them all being their nominated team leader I can't see them troubling the podium unless there's a new product on the market.
My picks for rank outsiders who could possibly pull a surprise: Dario Cataldo can climb a bit, TTs well and came 12th in 2012. Pozzovivo - A good climber and always in the mix. Pierre Rolland - for a stage at least and poss top 10, just on the basis of his palmares, no idea what his form is like.
> > I'm going Evans, Quintana, Rodriguez -
Hard to see past that trio plus Uran.
The outsiders are a bit of a funny bunch. Would love to see Roche and Martin do well but realistically top 10 and a stage would be a good performance. Martin more likely to take stages and Roche for the GC.
Then there's the Italian old guard Basso, Cunego and Scarponi. Despite them all being their nominated team leader I can't see them troubling the podium unless there's a new product on the market.
My picks for rank outsiders who could possibly pull a surprise: Dario Cataldo can climb a bit, TTs well and came 12th in 2012. Pozzovivo - A good climber and always in the mix. Pierre Rolland - for a stage at least and poss top 10, just on the basis of his palmares, no idea what his form is like.
In reply to DaveHK: He went down very hard Iin front of us. One rider clipped something and went over sideways, and brought four down. The rider who'd already been dropped panicked when he caught up and realised he couldn't coast in, relatively!
In reply to Chris the Tall:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27333310
Interesting article on Gino Bartali's exploits during WW2, programme should be good.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27333310
Interesting article on Gino Bartali's exploits during WW2, programme should be good.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
I want Sebastian Henao to win a stage. Very excited about him in it this year. Just a wee baby.
I want Sebastian Henao to win a stage. Very excited about him in it this year. Just a wee baby.
In reply to DaveHK:
Yep, confirmed as a broken collarbone. Terrible luck for him, wonder if he will do a wiggins and comeback for the Vuelta.
hejedal finished but is out of GC contention, whilst Quintana lost almost a minute to Evans.
Thunderstorms forecast for tomorrow - well what do you expect in Ireland ?
> Strike Dan Martin from that list.
Yep, confirmed as a broken collarbone. Terrible luck for him, wonder if he will do a wiggins and comeback for the Vuelta.
hejedal finished but is out of GC contention, whilst Quintana lost almost a minute to Evans.
Thunderstorms forecast for tomorrow - well what do you expect in Ireland ?
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Just seen it again on the highlights. Awful crash with nasty injuries and a worst possible start to the race for the team
Just seen it again on the highlights. Awful crash with nasty injuries and a worst possible start to the race for the team
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Koldo also broke his collarbone in that crash so Garmin are minutes behind and severely weakend, some drama!
I watched it at Stormont and it was the beat atmosphere I've ever experienced, amazing it's happening in Belfast, hopefully it will do wonders for cycling over here. Can't wait for todays stage now, it comes right past my house in the nuetralized zone and then I'll be down the city centre for the finish!
Koldo also broke his collarbone in that crash so Garmin are minutes behind and severely weakend, some drama!
I watched it at Stormont and it was the beat atmosphere I've ever experienced, amazing it's happening in Belfast, hopefully it will do wonders for cycling over here. Can't wait for todays stage now, it comes right past my house in the nuetralized zone and then I'll be down the city centre for the finish!
In reply to ajsteele:
I was at Stormont too - brilliant place to watch spoiled only a little by the lack of a beer tent
Well done Belfast and NI - great turnout despite the weather and a special thanks to the meeter/greeter at George Best Airport who asked me if I was competing.
I was at Stormont too - brilliant place to watch spoiled only a little by the lack of a beer tent
Well done Belfast and NI - great turnout despite the weather and a special thanks to the meeter/greeter at George Best Airport who asked me if I was competing.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
I bet the riders are so glad to get away from Ireland and the dreadful weather
I bet the riders are so glad to get away from Ireland and the dreadful weather
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Hardly, they seem to have given up due to a sprinkling of rain earlier in the day. the race is thoroughly confused and being neutralised by the peloton because of the "dangerous conditions" which is odd, because the road is bone dry and has been for at least the last hour ive been watching.
I doubt the highlights will be worth viewing tonight
Perhaps they all need to read rule #5 again?
Hardly, they seem to have given up due to a sprinkling of rain earlier in the day. the race is thoroughly confused and being neutralised by the peloton because of the "dangerous conditions" which is odd, because the road is bone dry and has been for at least the last hour ive been watching.
I doubt the highlights will be worth viewing tonight
Perhaps they all need to read rule #5 again?
In reply to Chris the Tall:
So they've decided to actually race the last lap today, and it has predictably now started raining, and a few crashes on slippy corners... perhaps they had the right idea to start with!
So they've decided to actually race the last lap today, and it has predictably now started raining, and a few crashes on slippy corners... perhaps they had the right idea to start with!
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Aye. On day 4 of a 3 week tour when you've got a career to think about it makes sense to caw canny.
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> perhaps they had the right idea to start with!
>
> perhaps they had the right idea to start with!
Aye. On day 4 of a 3 week tour when you've got a career to think about it makes sense to caw canny.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Just found this great promo video
youtube.com/watch?v=y7f7Hk1mf54&
I'm planing to ride some of the causeway coast in a couple of weeks - looks stunning !
Just found this great promo video
youtube.com/watch?v=y7f7Hk1mf54&
I'm planing to ride some of the causeway coast in a couple of weeks - looks stunning !
In reply to Chris the Tall:
have you been following the book of the week?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b043kh5r
have you been following the book of the week?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b043kh5r
In reply to malk:
Yep, started listening last night on iplayer
His French revolutions book was brilliant. And has inspired me to ride the first two stages of the TDF route next month - something which I'm already regretting !
Yep, started listening last night on iplayer
His French revolutions book was brilliant. And has inspired me to ride the first two stages of the TDF route next month - something which I'm already regretting !
In reply to Chris the Tall: london to newcastle in a day- imagine that..
In reply to Chris the Tall:
More crashes today, but my prediction of Evans is looking good ! Long way to go of course
More crashes today, but my prediction of Evans is looking good ! Long way to go of course
In reply to andy guppy:
Was it BMC's call or Orica's ? And if the top two on the GC are in a position to race, shouldn't they do so ? Not to mention getting the benefit of good racecraft by being in the right place at the crucial time.
Who should they have waited for ? Just Uran and Quintana ? Or Valverde and Roche - who lost a lot of time, and skin.
Plus when you're that close to the end of the stage, surely you owe it to the fans to race ?
Was it BMC's call or Orica's ? And if the top two on the GC are in a position to race, shouldn't they do so ? Not to mention getting the benefit of good racecraft by being in the right place at the crucial time.
Who should they have waited for ? Just Uran and Quintana ? Or Valverde and Roche - who lost a lot of time, and skin.
Plus when you're that close to the end of the stage, surely you owe it to the fans to race ?
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Its not clear what caused the crash, but with one on that scale it was poor form for BMC [who definitely upped the pace in the small group] to attack........Orica were defending the jersey[Matthews is not an overall GC rider].......It was a cynical move by BMC to gain seconds on the rest of the field.....I hope the rest of the field show in the coming days how unsportsmanlike that behaviour was......even LA never stooped that low!!
Guppy
Its not clear what caused the crash, but with one on that scale it was poor form for BMC [who definitely upped the pace in the small group] to attack........Orica were defending the jersey[Matthews is not an overall GC rider].......It was a cynical move by BMC to gain seconds on the rest of the field.....I hope the rest of the field show in the coming days how unsportsmanlike that behaviour was......even LA never stooped that low!!
Guppy
In reply to andy guppy:
All's fair in cycling! There's going to be some interesting allegiances come tour time.
All's fair in cycling! There's going to be some interesting allegiances come tour time.
In reply to Chris the Tall: Purito is out, rather sadly. Katusha lost three to a variety of fractures in that crash. The way this race is going just making it to the end will result in a podium!
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Rewind to 2012, TdF stage 14... I just thought it was the honourable thing to do," said Wiggins "No one wants to benefit from someone else's misfortune." It looks like the gesture was lost on the guy he waited for! Cadel's hungry for a Grand Tour win but he would have been the bigger man if he'd waited.
Guppy
Rewind to 2012, TdF stage 14... I just thought it was the honourable thing to do," said Wiggins "No one wants to benefit from someone else's misfortune." It looks like the gesture was lost on the guy he waited for! Cadel's hungry for a Grand Tour win but he would have been the bigger man if he'd waited.
Guppy
In reply to andy guppy:
Wiggins didn't want to benefit from sabotage, which is differannt from a racing incident.
Not read the reports yet, but I'll guess the crash occurred because Evans (or someone else) attacked, rather than the other way round. It's been a pretty boring race so far, made worse by the weather, so the fact that it was an uphill finish gave the first real chance to shake things up.
So Evans attacks at the bottom of the climb, with what, 10k to the finish. And that causes a ripple which causes a crash and the sleepy guys at the back of peloton get caught up. By the time word gets through to Evans and Matthews they are half way up the final climb. I've never seen riders neutralise the race themselves that close to a finish
Wiggins didn't want to benefit from sabotage, which is differannt from a racing incident.
Not read the reports yet, but I'll guess the crash occurred because Evans (or someone else) attacked, rather than the other way round. It's been a pretty boring race so far, made worse by the weather, so the fact that it was an uphill finish gave the first real chance to shake things up.
So Evans attacks at the bottom of the climb, with what, 10k to the finish. And that causes a ripple which causes a crash and the sleepy guys at the back of peloton get caught up. By the time word gets through to Evans and Matthews they are half way up the final climb. I've never seen riders neutralise the race themselves that close to a finish
In reply to Chris the Tall:
To be honest it should have been called off by the race director when it became obvious they didnt have enough ambulances. Watching highlights now and its taken far to long to get the casualties help. Its also clear that the roads are not fit for a cycle race with the slightest bit of rain the slightest touch on the brakes is locking up wheels.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=giro%20crash%20stage%206%202014&s...
Looks like roundabout wash blocked on the left, and not well signed
Ive never seen a crash like that at least 50riders went down
To be honest it should have been called off by the race director when it became obvious they didnt have enough ambulances. Watching highlights now and its taken far to long to get the casualties help. Its also clear that the roads are not fit for a cycle race with the slightest bit of rain the slightest touch on the brakes is locking up wheels.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=giro%20crash%20stage%206%202014&s...
Looks like roundabout wash blocked on the left, and not well signed
Ive never seen a crash like that at least 50riders went down
Post edited at 01:02
In reply to Chris the Tall:
If you have not actually seem what happened how can you make those assumptions???.........the crash happened before the climb with the whole peleton together..a pinch point caused by a roundabout at the very front of the bunch!!... the lucky 8 who were not caught up in it will have known exactly what happened...as I said poor sporting behaviour...should have ridden as a sensible pace till the main group caught up.
I certain BMC will be rather unpopular today!!
Guppy
If you have not actually seem what happened how can you make those assumptions???.........the crash happened before the climb with the whole peleton together..a pinch point caused by a roundabout at the very front of the bunch!!... the lucky 8 who were not caught up in it will have known exactly what happened...as I said poor sporting behaviour...should have ridden as a sensible pace till the main group caught up.
I certain BMC will be rather unpopular today!!
Guppy
In reply to andy guppy:
What you say is total tosh!
In early stages on grand tours, crashes happen in the final 20km more often than not. While there is a large element of chance involved, a good team will be keeping their lead man towards the front of the bunch to stay out of trouble. Rather ironically, this rush to the front increases the likelyhood of a crash, but that's bike racing.
Cadel and BMC had obviously done a better job than the other teams at keeping their man out of trouble - they had three riders above the split. Fair dos to Orica Greenedge too who had the Maglia Rosa clear and one man to help defend. Both BMC and Orica where perfectly within their rights to push on that final climb - every other team would have done it. Frankly, they would have been completely crazy not to.
When Cadel punctured in the 2011 Vuelta, the Spanish teams all attacked, in coordination, and effectively put him out of the GC when he was in the form of his life. They didn't call it "bad sportsmanship", they called it "winning".
What you say is total tosh!
In early stages on grand tours, crashes happen in the final 20km more often than not. While there is a large element of chance involved, a good team will be keeping their lead man towards the front of the bunch to stay out of trouble. Rather ironically, this rush to the front increases the likelyhood of a crash, but that's bike racing.
Cadel and BMC had obviously done a better job than the other teams at keeping their man out of trouble - they had three riders above the split. Fair dos to Orica Greenedge too who had the Maglia Rosa clear and one man to help defend. Both BMC and Orica where perfectly within their rights to push on that final climb - every other team would have done it. Frankly, they would have been completely crazy not to.
When Cadel punctured in the 2011 Vuelta, the Spanish teams all attacked, in coordination, and effectively put him out of the GC when he was in the form of his life. They didn't call it "bad sportsmanship", they called it "winning".
In reply to andy guppy:
Jeez the perils of being honest !!!!
I'm at work and don't have Eurosport anyway, so I follow the race via twitter and whatever footage gets posted online. So I had seen the footage posted above, and in fact the last 15 minutes of the race.
The footage however doesn't show the crash itself and more importantly the state of affairs at the head of the peloton as it passed the roundabout. So I made an assumption, and stated it as such, that the race was going full speed at this point. After all they were only 11k from the finish and approaching the climb. Now, having read and heard a few reports, it seems my assumption was correct. If have links to footage or reports which show otherwise I'd be very interested to see them.
So what is the etiquette ?. First of all time for more honesty. I am not, nor have I ever been, a professional cyclist. Or even an amateur racer. In fact my only race was on a mountain bike!
My understanding is that it is bad form to attack when a rival has a mechanical, puncture or crash. It happens of course. However if an attack has already been made and you suffer a problem then tough , that's racing. It's also common sense - spectators don't want to see riders riding piano every time there's a crash, particularly so close to the finish. Even if Evans had gone at my pace on the final climb Purito wouldn't have caught him.
Remember "Scleckgate" - Schleck attacked, Bertie countered and Schleck's chain slipped. Blame the mechanic, blame the kit but you can't blame Bertie for not checking Schleck's chain as he went past.
Yes Ullrich waited for LA when a kid took him out (the world owes that kid an apology), but that was quite early in the stage, and of course LA attacked on the last climb and won. And when Beloki crashed and LA went through a field, no one was going to wait (not that it made any difference to Beloki).
If neutralising the race is necessary for safety, or to get ambulance through, then the commissars should do it, but it's not a decision that can be made by a rider on a final push for the line.
Jeez the perils of being honest !!!!
I'm at work and don't have Eurosport anyway, so I follow the race via twitter and whatever footage gets posted online. So I had seen the footage posted above, and in fact the last 15 minutes of the race.
The footage however doesn't show the crash itself and more importantly the state of affairs at the head of the peloton as it passed the roundabout. So I made an assumption, and stated it as such, that the race was going full speed at this point. After all they were only 11k from the finish and approaching the climb. Now, having read and heard a few reports, it seems my assumption was correct. If have links to footage or reports which show otherwise I'd be very interested to see them.
So what is the etiquette ?. First of all time for more honesty. I am not, nor have I ever been, a professional cyclist. Or even an amateur racer. In fact my only race was on a mountain bike!
My understanding is that it is bad form to attack when a rival has a mechanical, puncture or crash. It happens of course. However if an attack has already been made and you suffer a problem then tough , that's racing. It's also common sense - spectators don't want to see riders riding piano every time there's a crash, particularly so close to the finish. Even if Evans had gone at my pace on the final climb Purito wouldn't have caught him.
Remember "Scleckgate" - Schleck attacked, Bertie countered and Schleck's chain slipped. Blame the mechanic, blame the kit but you can't blame Bertie for not checking Schleck's chain as he went past.
Yes Ullrich waited for LA when a kid took him out (the world owes that kid an apology), but that was quite early in the stage, and of course LA attacked on the last climb and won. And when Beloki crashed and LA went through a field, no one was going to wait (not that it made any difference to Beloki).
If neutralising the race is necessary for safety, or to get ambulance through, then the commissars should do it, but it's not a decision that can be made by a rider on a final push for the line.
Chris the Tall:
Anyway...
Roche still in so I am looking forward to his attacks when he goes for the stage win now GC isn't a goer (if it ever really was).
Cadel is looking better and better for sure. I'm really excited to see how he handles the attacks as the others hit out one he's in the box seat. Well good. Time to see this Columbian renaissance really hit it's straps
Anyway...
Roche still in so I am looking forward to his attacks when he goes for the stage win now GC isn't a goer (if it ever really was).
Cadel is looking better and better for sure. I'm really excited to see how he handles the attacks as the others hit out one he's in the box seat. Well good. Time to see this Columbian renaissance really hit it's straps
In reply to andy guppy:
Sean Kelly said 'race on'.
Here endeth the discussion.
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> as I said poor sporting behaviour...should have ridden as a sensible pace till the main group caught up.
>>
> as I said poor sporting behaviour...should have ridden as a sensible pace till the main group caught up.
Sean Kelly said 'race on'.
Here endeth the discussion.
In reply to Liam Brown:
Good to hear that everyone managed to stay on their bikes today. Not seen an update on Caruso, but the other Katusha rider has a broken leg and Purito is out with (more) broken ribs.
Having seen pics of Roche yesterday I don't think he'll be going for a stage win for at least a week
Good to hear that everyone managed to stay on their bikes today. Not seen an update on Caruso, but the other Katusha rider has a broken leg and Purito is out with (more) broken ribs.
Having seen pics of Roche yesterday I don't think he'll be going for a stage win for at least a week
In reply to Chris the Tall: Not quite everyone, one Movistar rider came off toward the end and was down for a short while, though I missed whether he finished or not.
A Neri Sottoli rider also called it a day 9km in, though I'm not sure if that was a legacy of yesterday or something else.
A Neri Sottoli rider also called it a day 9km in, though I'm not sure if that was a legacy of yesterday or something else.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Probably not, just higher profile riders this year with 2 contenders and their half of each of their teams out early on
Probably not, just higher profile riders this year with 2 contenders and their half of each of their teams out early on
In reply to Chris the Tall:
No one was taking about neutralising the race....but as you stated its bad form to attack after a crash :] and take an advantage from others misfortune......If it had happened to Cadel the toys would have been out of the box!!
Guppy
No one was taking about neutralising the race....but as you stated its bad form to attack after a crash :] and take an advantage from others misfortune......If it had happened to Cadel the toys would have been out of the box!!
Guppy
In reply to Alun
Its always been bad form in cycling and most other sports to attack others misfortune.....because it happened to Cadel in 2010 doesn't make it right now...It was unsportmanlike to attack on that last climb after the crash..they should have ridden at tempo until the main group rejoined..It has always has been like that in cycling....many examples in cycling history.
Guppy
Its always been bad form in cycling and most other sports to attack others misfortune.....because it happened to Cadel in 2010 doesn't make it right now...It was unsportmanlike to attack on that last climb after the crash..they should have ridden at tempo until the main group rejoined..It has always has been like that in cycling....many examples in cycling history.
Guppy
In reply to andy guppy:
OK, Vuelta 1985, what's your verdict?
> In reply to Alun
> Its always been bad form in cycling and most other sports to attack others misfortune.....because it happened to Cadel in 2010 doesn't make it right now...It was unsportmanlike to attack on that last climb after the crash..they should have ridden at tempo until the main group rejoined..It has always has been like that in cycling....many examples in cycling history.
> Guppy
OK, Vuelta 1985, what's your verdict?
In reply to andy guppy: They didn't attack. BMC appeared to have done their homework and brought Cadel toward the front before the start of the climb and set a fairly hard pace.
Some others panicked and on greasy roads chaos ensued. The race was well on before the incident and BMC shouldn't be berated for taking charge early. They did what most good gc focused outfits try.
Some others panicked and on greasy roads chaos ensued. The race was well on before the incident and BMC shouldn't be berated for taking charge early. They did what most good gc focused outfits try.
In reply to Mike Highbury:
Maybe there are one or two exceptions :].....still doesn't make it right!!!
Guppy
Maybe there are one or two exceptions :].....still doesn't make it right!!!
Guppy
In reply to andy guppy:
Apparently there was another "exception" in the 1972 Giro and Mercx was the "culprit".
Maybe you could come up with an example when such a late crash HAS lead to the riders not racing
Apparently there was another "exception" in the 1972 Giro and Mercx was the "culprit".
Maybe you could come up with an example when such a late crash HAS lead to the riders not racing
In reply to Chris the Tall:
One might mention Cancellara's neutralising a stage in the TdeF in 2010 when it was raining and the Schlecks fell off; but that wasn't very well received.
> Apparently there was another "exception" in the 1972 Giro and Mercx was the "culprit".
> Maybe you could come up with an example when such a late crash HAS lead to the riders not racing
One might mention Cancellara's neutralising a stage in the TdeF in 2010 when it was raining and the Schlecks fell off; but that wasn't very well received.
In reply to Mike Highbury: though that is more akin to last Tuesday where a number of riders collectively decided early on to neutralise the race because of the conditions. It wasn't a unilateral decision right at the depth.
Indeed, if you were to make that comparison Matthews should be the one in the spotlight, as he was in pink, and it in part due to Cancellara being in yellow that his will was respected.
Indeed, if you were to make that comparison Matthews should be the one in the spotlight, as he was in pink, and it in part due to Cancellara being in yellow that his will was respected.
In reply to Liam M:
You may also recall the derision that Daddy Fabian, in his self-appointed role as patron of the peloton, met with at the time.
> though that is more akin to last Tuesday where a number of riders collectively decided early on to neutralise the race because of the conditions. It wasn't a unilateral decision right at the depth.
> Indeed, if you were to make that comparison Matthews should be the one in the spotlight, as he was in pink, and it in part due to Cancellara being in yellow that his will was respected.
You may also recall the derision that Daddy Fabian, in his self-appointed role as patron of the peloton, met with at the time.
In reply to andy guppy:
I think it's a bit naive to suggest there is a hard and fast rule on this especially when there are complicating factors like alliances and animosities between teams and the difficulty of a large group of people with conflicting interests making a split second decision in a high pressure situation.
> In reply to Alun
> Its always been bad form in cycling and most other sports to attack others misfortune
I think it's a bit naive to suggest there is a hard and fast rule on this especially when there are complicating factors like alliances and animosities between teams and the difficulty of a large group of people with conflicting interests making a split second decision in a high pressure situation.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
What's with Ben Swift? Sky shred the field in last few kilos but then Swift doesn't really seem to even get out the saddle when the sprints on? It's always the same story in any of the races I've seen him in ( which I admit isn't many...). My knowledge of road racing is limited so is there something I'm missing of is he just not as quick as the top sprinters?
What's with Ben Swift? Sky shred the field in last few kilos but then Swift doesn't really seem to even get out the saddle when the sprints on? It's always the same story in any of the races I've seen him in ( which I admit isn't many...). My knowledge of road racing is limited so is there something I'm missing of is he just not as quick as the top sprinters?
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Sky mistimed that lead out badly. Boassen Hagen was their last man and he was burned out with about 3k to go leaving Swift to try to get on someone elses wheel.
That said, there have been a few occasions when he doesn't look like he's trying.
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> What's with Ben Swift?
>
> What's with Ben Swift?
Sky mistimed that lead out badly. Boassen Hagen was their last man and he was burned out with about 3k to go leaving Swift to try to get on someone elses wheel.
That said, there have been a few occasions when he doesn't look like he's trying.
In reply to CarbonCopy:
Yep - he's not that Swift !
Actually he did incredibly well to survive today as Farrar crashed right in front of him and he had to swerve round him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84J9Q9nhNn4&feature=player_embedded
(Crash at 11 mins)
Sky's tactic today was to use the small climb to try and drop the pure sprinters, but they came back and that meant Sky had burnt their matches. It may look as if he doesn't lose much avoiding the crash but without a team mate and having lost momentum, there was no way he could get close to Bouhani. Without the crash, a few places better but still wouldn't have won.
Yep - he's not that Swift !
Actually he did incredibly well to survive today as Farrar crashed right in front of him and he had to swerve round him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84J9Q9nhNn4&feature=player_embedded
(Crash at 11 mins)
Sky's tactic today was to use the small climb to try and drop the pure sprinters, but they came back and that meant Sky had burnt their matches. It may look as if he doesn't lose much avoiding the crash but without a team mate and having lost momentum, there was no way he could get close to Bouhani. Without the crash, a few places better but still wouldn't have won.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Out of curiosity I googled 'British Giro stage winners'. The list is only 6 names long and of them only 3 have won road race stages.
Out of curiosity I googled 'British Giro stage winners'. The list is only 6 names long and of them only 3 have won road race stages.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
No Elliot, no Hoban. Wiggins (as pointed out) and Vin Denson. According to Wikipedia anyway.
> (In reply to Dave Kerr)
>
> I'll go Cav, Dowsett, Millar, Millar, Elliot, Hoban
>
> I'll go Cav, Dowsett, Millar, Millar, Elliot, Hoban
No Elliot, no Hoban. Wiggins (as pointed out) and Vin Denson. According to Wikipedia anyway.
In reply to The New NickB:
Yep 4/6. I knew wiggins didn't win a stage last year but didn't know about 2010. Never heard of the other guy
Yep 4/6. I knew wiggins didn't win a stage last year but didn't know about 2010. Never heard of the other guy
In reply to DaveHK: The wiki article is incomplete, not least Max Sciandri had stage wins and so makes for at least seven stage winners.
In reply to Liam M:
Was Sciandri still racing on an Italian license when he won those stages?
Edit - Beaten!
Was Sciandri still racing on an Italian license when he won those stages?
Edit - Beaten!
Post edited at 20:58
In reply to DaveHK: Actually, my last comment may be slightly erroneous - it appears his Giro victories occurred before he changed nationality, so would be something of a grey area at best.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
I haven't managed to find another site with British Giro stage winners to confirm the names
I haven't managed to find another site with British Giro stage winners to confirm the names
Post edited at 21:06
In reply to Liam Brown:
Today could be the day
> Roche still in so I am looking forward to his attacks when he goes for the stage win now GC isn't a goer (if it ever really was).
Today could be the day
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Well if ever there was going to be a day for a long break to stick that was it.
Someone never read the script.
Well if ever there was going to be a day for a long break to stick that was it.
Someone never read the script.
In reply to DaveHK: Whilst most of the big GC teams were unlikely to care about the right break getting away, Androni were never going to like missing it. As soon as the eventual break went (49kph first hour despite a climb!) and they weren't there you could tell if they had anything they'd want to change that.
The irony is that by dragging it back they were destroying their chance of having anyone fresh enough to take the win, though it made them visible which inspires a lot of wild cards.
The irony is that by dragging it back they were destroying their chance of having anyone fresh enough to take the win, though it made them visible which inspires a lot of wild cards.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
More bad crashes yesterday - the pics are a bit gruesome
pic.twitter.com/a2ixANC1wz
pic.twitter.com/jaH35CZWPg
Both guys finished but Sorenson retired today
More bad crashes yesterday - the pics are a bit gruesome
pic.twitter.com/a2ixANC1wz
pic.twitter.com/jaH35CZWPg
Both guys finished but Sorenson retired today
In reply to Liam M:
Some interesting politics going on as well
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/savio-we-dont-take-orders-from-anybody
Pretty high-handed from Evans to expect everyone to wait for one of his domestiques !
Some interesting politics going on as well
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/savio-we-dont-take-orders-from-anybody
Pretty high-handed from Evans to expect everyone to wait for one of his domestiques !
In reply to Chris the Tall:
The mechanic looks like he doesn't want to be anywhere near them in that second picture
Some of the photos of Sorenson make him look heavily dazed; I've not seen footage but it must have been a nasty crash.
The mechanic looks like he doesn't want to be anywhere near them in that second picture
Some of the photos of Sorenson make him look heavily dazed; I've not seen footage but it must have been a nasty crash.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Evans having a bad day at the time trial - looks like he may lose time to everyone, even Quintana
Evans having a bad day at the time trial - looks like he may lose time to everyone, even Quintana
In reply to Chris the Tall:
And one in the eye for Sky, everyone's a winner.
> Evans having a bad day at the time trial - looks like he may lose time to everyone, even Quintana
And one in the eye for Sky, everyone's a winner.
In reply to Mike Highbury:
Very impressive by Uran, now leads Evans by 37 seconds and Quintana by 3'29 - that's a long way back for the pre-race favourite
Evans improved in the second half and ended up gaining time on the rest, though not much on Majka. Should be a fascinating last week
Why ? Porte was to be their GC man for this race, so they let Uran go, just as they let Cav go because they couldn't give him the backing either. And next year if Uran wants a crack at the TDF next year then OPQS will have that headache.
Very impressive by Uran, now leads Evans by 37 seconds and Quintana by 3'29 - that's a long way back for the pre-race favourite
Evans improved in the second half and ended up gaining time on the rest, though not much on Majka. Should be a fascinating last week
> And one in the eye for Sky, everyone's a winner.
Why ? Porte was to be their GC man for this race, so they let Uran go, just as they let Cav go because they couldn't give him the backing either. And next year if Uran wants a crack at the TDF next year then OPQS will have that headache.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
It's looking bad for Evans now. He needed to take time today not lose it.
Uran has been improving steadily for the last few years and has shown real class on a few occasions.
Pozzovivo is in a good position to leap up the standings in the big hills.
It's looking bad for Evans now. He needed to take time today not lose it.
Uran has been improving steadily for the last few years and has shown real class on a few occasions.
Pozzovivo is in a good position to leap up the standings in the big hills.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Any news on that bloke the camera bike hit? I can't find anything but it was pretty horrific to watch.
Any news on that bloke the camera bike hit? I can't find anything but it was pretty horrific to watch.
In reply to DaveHK:
I'm waiting to watch the highlights on Eurosport......they seem to always have it on late!!
I'm waiting to watch the highlights on Eurosport......they seem to always have it on late!!
In reply to DaveHK:
Amazing to watch but there were plenty of complaints from the Peloton afterwards. What's the UKC verdict? Was it all a little bit too gladiatorial (with the baying hordes watching on the box), or should the riders quit whinging and apply Rule 5?
Amazing to watch but there were plenty of complaints from the Peloton afterwards. What's the UKC verdict? Was it all a little bit too gladiatorial (with the baying hordes watching on the box), or should the riders quit whinging and apply Rule 5?
In reply to Alun:
There were two separate issues: The on/off neutralisation confusion (basic problem with race management) and the cold. From my armchair view, the latter just looks like the teams' poor preparation. They knew it was going to be cold on the descents and should have made provisions (like some appropriate clothing) yet so many seemed to ignore the forecast and 'hope for the best'. Doesn't seem very 'professional'. Were they just hoping the stage would be curtailed at the last moment like last year? It was never going to be easy, but they should plan better and minimise the need to apply Rule 5.
There were two separate issues: The on/off neutralisation confusion (basic problem with race management) and the cold. From my armchair view, the latter just looks like the teams' poor preparation. They knew it was going to be cold on the descents and should have made provisions (like some appropriate clothing) yet so many seemed to ignore the forecast and 'hope for the best'. Doesn't seem very 'professional'. Were they just hoping the stage would be curtailed at the last moment like last year? It was never going to be easy, but they should plan better and minimise the need to apply Rule 5.
In reply to Marek:
I agree with the majority of what you say, but I think many of the teams were sufficiently organised - e.g. many riders stopped to put warm jackets on for the final descent. I think the riders' complaint is that, because nobody is obliged to stop, then you have accept that "if you stop, you lose time". Uran lost over a minute because he stopped to put on a jacket and the leading group didn't (although he says he stopped because of the rumour of a neutralised descent, which doesn't lessen the confusion)
The point is that the race becomes less about who is the strongest rider, and more about who has the constitution/cojones to freeze to death in just shorts/jersey as they descend from a high mountain pass in the snow. While Rule 5 applies here undoubtedly, is it just "part of racing", or it is testing the riders in a dangerous and unfair way?
> Were they just hoping the stage would be curtailed at the last moment like last year? It was never going to be easy, but they should plan better and minimise the need to apply Rule 5.
I agree with the majority of what you say, but I think many of the teams were sufficiently organised - e.g. many riders stopped to put warm jackets on for the final descent. I think the riders' complaint is that, because nobody is obliged to stop, then you have accept that "if you stop, you lose time". Uran lost over a minute because he stopped to put on a jacket and the leading group didn't (although he says he stopped because of the rumour of a neutralised descent, which doesn't lessen the confusion)
The point is that the race becomes less about who is the strongest rider, and more about who has the constitution/cojones to freeze to death in just shorts/jersey as they descend from a high mountain pass in the snow. While Rule 5 applies here undoubtedly, is it just "part of racing", or it is testing the riders in a dangerous and unfair way?
Post edited at 13:04
In reply to Alun:
While there does appear to have been an element of confusion re the race being neutralised - partly because race radio mentioned it's possibility - there seems to have a been a failure to listen to the commissaire president who as far as I know made no mention of the decent being neutralised.
For those not aware ' race radio' is a live commentary of the situation on the road - often broadcast to everyone on the races channel by a UCI commissaire on a motorbike in the thick of the action.
In a football match you play to the referees whistle. In a bike race you play to the instructions of the commissaire president / race commissaire.
It seems the teams didn't 'play to the whistle' but to what they thought was happening. More fool them.
While there does appear to have been an element of confusion re the race being neutralised - partly because race radio mentioned it's possibility - there seems to have a been a failure to listen to the commissaire president who as far as I know made no mention of the decent being neutralised.
For those not aware ' race radio' is a live commentary of the situation on the road - often broadcast to everyone on the races channel by a UCI commissaire on a motorbike in the thick of the action.
In a football match you play to the referees whistle. In a bike race you play to the instructions of the commissaire president / race commissaire.
It seems the teams didn't 'play to the whistle' but to what they thought was happening. More fool them.
Post edited at 13:15
In reply: is there a catchup or highlights link available for this stage?
In reply to Chris the Tall:
anyone who gained from the confusion will say one thing the losers another.
as a rider you will know if people are going for it downhill,so id keep up and carry on as fast as safe.they had the option.
anyone who gained from the confusion will say one thing the losers another.
as a rider you will know if people are going for it downhill,so id keep up and carry on as fast as safe.they had the option.
In reply to Alun:
That is a pretty slow time to put on a windproof, isn't it ?
> Uran lost over a minute because he stopped to put on a jacket
That is a pretty slow time to put on a windproof, isn't it ?
In reply to Henry Iddon:
It now appears that the race organisers are blaming the radio operator for saying the wrong thing which seems a bit churlish! Are the teams supposed to second guess what comes over the official radio channel?
>
> For those not aware ' race radio' is a live commentary of the situation on the road - often broadcast to everyone on the races channel by a UCI commissaire on a motorbike in the thick of the action.
>
> In a football match you play to the referees whistle. In a bike race you play to the instructions of the commissaire president / race commissaire.
>
> It seems the teams didn't 'play to the whistle' but to what they thought was happening. More fool them.
> For those not aware ' race radio' is a live commentary of the situation on the road - often broadcast to everyone on the races channel by a UCI commissaire on a motorbike in the thick of the action.
>
> In a football match you play to the referees whistle. In a bike race you play to the instructions of the commissaire president / race commissaire.
>
> It seems the teams didn't 'play to the whistle' but to what they thought was happening. More fool them.
It now appears that the race organisers are blaming the radio operator for saying the wrong thing which seems a bit churlish! Are the teams supposed to second guess what comes over the official radio channel?
In reply to Marek:
Yes poor to blame the radio tour guy.
But as I said the teams should have followed the instructions from the race commissaire.
"If you're serious about the race and especially if you're in the pink jersey, you should have been at the head of affairs. End of story. Everyone rode down the descent and that was it." Hesjedal
Exactly.
It's like blaming ref when the opposition score because you stopped playing having thought there was a foul. If the ref. doesn't blow - play on !
Yes poor to blame the radio tour guy.
But as I said the teams should have followed the instructions from the race commissaire.
"If you're serious about the race and especially if you're in the pink jersey, you should have been at the head of affairs. End of story. Everyone rode down the descent and that was it." Hesjedal
Exactly.
It's like blaming ref when the opposition score because you stopped playing having thought there was a foul. If the ref. doesn't blow - play on !
In reply to Henry Iddon:
> (In reply to Marek)
>
> Yes poor to blame the radio tour guy.
>
> But as I said the teams should have followed the instructions from the race commissaire.
>
Except I thought that the race radio was the official communication channel from the commissaire to the teams during the race. Perhaps I'm wrong.>
> Yes poor to blame the radio tour guy.
>
> But as I said the teams should have followed the instructions from the race commissaire.
>
In reply to mark s:
Not entirely true, Pozzovivo lost time but is saying it should stand as is, he was not aware of a neutralisation and was descending as quick as he could in the conditions. Others have said similar.
It is mostly Lefevre on behalf of OPQS (who admittedly could be argued to have lost most) that is being most vocal.
> anyone who gained from the confusion will say one thing the losers another.
Not entirely true, Pozzovivo lost time but is saying it should stand as is, he was not aware of a neutralisation and was descending as quick as he could in the conditions. Others have said similar.
It is mostly Lefevre on behalf of OPQS (who admittedly could be argued to have lost most) that is being most vocal.
In reply to Marek:
Not necessarily - if a senior comm speaks over the race radio then yes. Mainly it'll be used for calling the race numbers of riders in a move or attacking - saying when the group passes a certain landmark to allow time gaps to be judged, calling a number of a rider with a puncture so team cars are ready etc etc.
It's a way of keeping the whole convoy aware of what is going on at any given time.
"lead group contains 15, 76, 24, 87, 12"
"number 15 attacking from group"
"Number 72 puncture"
Or after a puncture
"Number 56 now back in peloton"
etc etc.
Not necessarily - if a senior comm speaks over the race radio then yes. Mainly it'll be used for calling the race numbers of riders in a move or attacking - saying when the group passes a certain landmark to allow time gaps to be judged, calling a number of a rider with a puncture so team cars are ready etc etc.
It's a way of keeping the whole convoy aware of what is going on at any given time.
"lead group contains 15, 76, 24, 87, 12"
"number 15 attacking from group"
"Number 72 puncture"
Or after a puncture
"Number 56 now back in peloton"
etc etc.
In reply to Henry Iddon:
So what would constitute an official mid-race neutralisation announcement? As opposed to an unofficial one. It all sounds very vague and a recipe for confusion.
> Not necessarily - if a senior comm speaks over the race radio then yes. Mainly it'll be used for calling the race numbers of riders in a move or attacking - saying when the group passes a certain landmark to allow time gaps to be judged, calling a number of a rider with a puncture so team cars are ready etc etc.
So what would constitute an official mid-race neutralisation announcement? As opposed to an unofficial one. It all sounds very vague and a recipe for confusion.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Great stage today. Evans is fooked. Tomorrow's mountain TT may will make things interesting.
Great stage today. Evans is fooked. Tomorrow's mountain TT may will make things interesting.
In reply to Marek:
The announcement would come from the senior commissaire - not the radio tour person. And would be announced as an official statement.
The announcement would come from the senior commissaire - not the radio tour person. And would be announced as an official statement.
In reply to Henry Iddon:
Yes, but how is that 'official statement' relayed to the DSs in their cars? I assume over the race radio? If so it begs the question of how they differentiate between 'official statements' and unofficial ones.
By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just trying to understand how the system works - or is supposed to work.
> (In reply to Marek)
>
> The announcement would come from the senior commissaire - not the radio tour person. And would be announced as an official statement.
>
> The announcement would come from the senior commissaire - not the radio tour person. And would be announced as an official statement.
Yes, but how is that 'official statement' relayed to the DSs in their cars? I assume over the race radio? If so it begs the question of how they differentiate between 'official statements' and unofficial ones.
By the way, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just trying to understand how the system works - or is supposed to work.
Just seen Wiggins is off to Orica-Greenedge. Though not 100% confirmed
Post edited at 12:30
In reply to Hugh Cottam:
Has it moved beyond wild speculation and rumour? That's all it was a couple of days ago.
> Just seen Wiggins is off to Orica-Greenedge. Though not 100% confirmed
Has it moved beyond wild speculation and rumour? That's all it was a couple of days ago.
In reply to DaveHK:
I did all right with that prediction for a change!
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> [...]
>
> Hard to see past that trio plus Uran.
> [...]
>
> Hard to see past that trio plus Uran.
> Then there's the Italian old guard Basso, Cunego and Scarponi. Despite them all being their nominated team leader I can't see them troubling the podium unless there's a new product on the market.
>
> My picks for rank outsiders who could possibly pull a surprise: Dario Cataldo can climb a bit, TTs well and came 12th in 2012. Pozzovivo - A good climber and always in the mix. Pierre Rolland - for a stage at least and poss top 10, just on the basis of his palmares, no idea what his form is like.
>
> My picks for rank outsiders who could possibly pull a surprise: Dario Cataldo can climb a bit, TTs well and came 12th in 2012. Pozzovivo - A good climber and always in the mix. Pierre Rolland - for a stage at least and poss top 10, just on the basis of his palmares, no idea what his form is like.
I did all right with that prediction for a change!
In reply to AlisonSmiles:
The little things are what makes the Giro so special: this year it was Wout Pouels stealing a spectators sunglasses and throwing them away. I think the guy had got in Uran's way but need to find a video.
Edit to add: found one https://tinyurl.com/nn8cwjt
It's a link to Eurosport, UKC won't let me post the original one.
A couple of years ago was the best moment when Farnesse Vini left a bike propped against a guy in his pants and drove off. Apparently they then tried to claim the bike had been stolen, shame about the TV footage showing the bloke trying to give it back: youtube.com/watch?v=c7T_8do5Ask&
The little things are what makes the Giro so special: this year it was Wout Pouels stealing a spectators sunglasses and throwing them away. I think the guy had got in Uran's way but need to find a video.
Edit to add: found one https://tinyurl.com/nn8cwjt
It's a link to Eurosport, UKC won't let me post the original one.
A couple of years ago was the best moment when Farnesse Vini left a bike propped against a guy in his pants and drove off. Apparently they then tried to claim the bike had been stolen, shame about the TV footage showing the bloke trying to give it back: youtube.com/watch?v=c7T_8do5Ask&
Post edited at 21:42
In reply to AlisonSmiles:
Mick Foley spray painted?
> Only one lime green mankind that I saw. Poor show.
Mick Foley spray painted?
In reply to AlisonSmiles:
Me too. Really great race, awesome 3 weeks of entertainment, good result in the end.
> And there it was, done. Really enjoyed the race.
Me too. Really great race, awesome 3 weeks of entertainment, good result in the end.
In reply to Removed User:
In Ireland last week and struggled to follow the race - did much happen ? Will probably spend the week searching for highlights on YouTube.
Rode 17 miles of stage 2 yesterday and it great to see how they got into the spirit - pink bikes, pink bunting, pink tractors and even some pink sheep. Surprised the dye hasn't washed off yet - it tipped it down as soon as I got on my bike and stopped as soon as I finished.
Will Quintana ride the tour ? Will Colombians start to dominate cycling the way East Africans dominate long distance running. ?
In Ireland last week and struggled to follow the race - did much happen ? Will probably spend the week searching for highlights on YouTube.
Rode 17 miles of stage 2 yesterday and it great to see how they got into the spirit - pink bikes, pink bunting, pink tractors and even some pink sheep. Surprised the dye hasn't washed off yet - it tipped it down as soon as I got on my bike and stopped as soon as I finished.
Will Quintana ride the tour ? Will Colombians start to dominate cycling the way East Africans dominate long distance running. ?
In reply to Hugh Cottam:
I suspect that will all depend on whether he rides the tour or not. Maybe its just a shot across the bows via his agent. If they do the dirty on him and don't pick him, he'll be off. However I think it's one instance where the long hand of the sponsor will have a good effect. Unless Wiggo makes a mess of the Tour de Suisse and Froome and Porte double up in the Dauphine, but even then.
> Just seen Wiggins is off to Orica-Greenedge. Though not 100% confirmed
I suspect that will all depend on whether he rides the tour or not. Maybe its just a shot across the bows via his agent. If they do the dirty on him and don't pick him, he'll be off. However I think it's one instance where the long hand of the sponsor will have a good effect. Unless Wiggo makes a mess of the Tour de Suisse and Froome and Porte double up in the Dauphine, but even then.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
19 management, isn't it? I don't understand how not picking him for the Tour is doing the dirty on him. He's now well into his thirties, two years older than his best road year and unlikely to be a patch on his team's likely candidates but, doubtless, I'll be proved wrong.
> I suspect that will all depend on whether he rides the tour or not. Maybe its just a shot across the bows via his agent. If they do the dirty on him and don't pick him, he'll be off. However I think it's one instance where the long hand of the sponsor will have a good effect. Unless Wiggo makes a mess of the Tour de Suisse and Froome and Porte double up in the Dauphine, but even then.
19 management, isn't it? I don't understand how not picking him for the Tour is doing the dirty on him. He's now well into his thirties, two years older than his best road year and unlikely to be a patch on his team's likely candidates but, doubtless, I'll be proved wrong.
In reply to Mike Highbury:
He didn't have chance to defend his title last year - who knows what would have happened if he'd been fully fit, or even if he was half-fit and on a team without a major GC candidate. However now he's fit, on-form, on-message and the tour is starting on home soil, it would look very poor and churlish to leave him out.
34 isn't old for an endurance athlete - and 7 years younger than Chris Horner. No doubt that Froome will lead the team, but Wiggins can play a role as support or decoy
He didn't have chance to defend his title last year - who knows what would have happened if he'd been fully fit, or even if he was half-fit and on a team without a major GC candidate. However now he's fit, on-form, on-message and the tour is starting on home soil, it would look very poor and churlish to leave him out.
34 isn't old for an endurance athlete - and 7 years younger than Chris Horner. No doubt that Froome will lead the team, but Wiggins can play a role as support or decoy
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