UKC

With Putin maintaining his stance on Crimea and Ukraine I think he is hell bent on returning to the days of a huge Soviet style empire dominated by Russia and accompanied by a cold war style stand-off between east and west. The worrying thing for the west is that they seem to lack the potency that they had thirty or forty years ago - and Putin knows it.

Is there going to be another cold war or, perhaps the last one is still going on?

In reply to mypyrex:

Funny that you don't seem to have noticed that it is NATO doing the pushing at present, and has been since the Soviet Union was brought down. Take a look at the growth of NATO over the last few decades, and without the Soviet block to worry about it should logically have been disbanded.

Here you are, done it for you:

http://www.napma.nato.int/organisation/5.html

Who is surrounding who?

In reply to mypyrex:

You might be right about what he wants, but he ain't going to get it.

In reply to mypyrex:

US arms manufacturers are rubbing their hands with glee. All that War on Terror kit is now obselete, bring on the Cold War in Europe 2014-5 Catalogue. All updated, none of that 60's and 70's rubbish, this is all new modern must have kit

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Despite the break up of the Soviet Union I think that, deep down, hardline communist die-hards in the Kremlin have always harboured a desire maintain an anti-western bloc and that the "break-up" of the Soviet Union was an unfortunate set back. Now that they have one of their own in power they are "re-grouping" and undoing all that Gorbachev achieved for detente. I think that is why NATO had and has to be maintained.

In reply to Submit to Gravity:


If you listened to his speeches you would discover that he has said he doesn't want this. Try doing what I did when all this started, look at the lists of population, BNP, etc of the present Russian Federation and the NATO block... your theory of who's threatening who would be a repeat of David and Goliath, there's no way Russia can threaten the West, those who pretend otherwise are just bullshitting you.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:


I know, that's why I said that he ain't gonna get it.

In reply to mypyrex:

I think Bruce is right in that the Russian mind-set is much more about defence than aggression. The west has been far more aggressive in the recent past.

However, the Americans tried to emasculate Russia after the USSR split and this affected Russian pride. Putin has successfully tapped into this.

In reply to mypyrex:

I'm really worried about it all. Maybe the thing will be for Ukraine to split east/ west. Unfortunately its too late for another "velvet divorce"

In reply to mypyrex:

C'mon it was the Russian empire before the Soviet Union. And the U.K. has got plenty of history there. Those in power in Moscow will always see it that way for a long time to come.

D

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Yes, he also said he wanted Syria clear of chemical weapons and no part in destabilising the Ukraine. You can tell when Putin's lying because his lips are moving.

Why you 100% believe the words of someone who previously made his living as a spook, and 100% disbelieve the words of someone who's former career was a community and civil rights activist, is completely beyond me.

Actually, no it's not. I picked up a copy of Francis Wheen, How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World the other day. It has a description of you to a tee. You should get hold of a copy, you'd probably be flattered.

In reply to woolsack:


Problem is you can only afford 3 of each.

D

In reply to redsonja:

Do you have friends in Ukraine?

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

I have a couple of Ukrainian friends who work over here. their families are in Kiev and Lviv

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:


I imagine the latter is Obama? Frankly if your seriously think what Obama has done since he was elected gives him any credibility at all then we'll have to beg to differ! The lies involved over Libya, it's destruction and the creation of another failed state are down to Obama, and you say I should believe and admire him? The mind boggles!

In reply to Bruce Hooker:


It boggles at you clinging onto a Che poster mindset.
I know you're getting on a bit but you're allowed to grow up.

In reply to aln:


Do you think Che has much to do with Vladimir Putin?


I know I'm allowed to but I will resist all the same if that's alright with you.

In reply to mypyrex:

My observation is that it is not a new cold war 50s style. That's because Russia has a different type of economy now, more akin to the West. What is interesting is that Putin has perhaps come to realise that this is a brand new political context and has backed off his initial stance and is, like America, eye balling the situation from a distance. It is new political territory for all parties concerned. What is odd is its characterisation as an ethnic divide when in fact there will be Russian speakers who consider the political structure Ukraine needs to decide upon as more important than ethnicity. May 25 may focus on this fact and which all including Putin recognise as a step forward in what is absolutelt unknown political territory. What is apparent is that neither America nor Russia wish to eye ball each other directly on the battlefield.May 25th will be crucial.

In reply to mypyrex:

On a lighter note, it is interesting that various members of the Duma were horrified by Austria's win in the Eurovision Song Contest, with many calls for withdrawal and creation of a new Eurasian Song Contest, yet the Russian TV viewers seemed to have voted for the Austrian TV in droves.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:


>I'm not so certain about that NATO has been involved in

Bosnia
Croatia
Kosovo
Afghanistan
Libya
Sidelines of Syria

None of which involved the former Soviet Union

It seems to be becoming a World Policeman

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Pilger on Ukraine:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-...

In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Who knows what to make of it all?

In reply to Trangia:


Which is was never set up to do. Also it is fairly clear that it "polices" in the interest of one part of the world primarily, it's command structure is in no way democratic nor representative of the world as a whole.

So basically it functions without a democratic mandate, and in most of those countries in the list it kills numerous people, of which many civilians.

In reply to Douglas Griffin:
The black and white rhetoric of both sides compels us towards confrontation and there has been a failure in a type of diplomacy that aims to understand each other's position. If that diplomatic style is adopted after May 25 then matters might move towards a resolution. May 25 may give the context in which to adopt this style of diplomacy. However, The May 11 referendum and contrary Russian response to it, has botched a lot up . It will be Putin who may have to distance himself from it {May 11]in order to prevent himself from being dragged where he does not wish to go.