UKC

Di2

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Antigua 11 May 2014
looking to get a new bike and as its gonna be a long termer I was wondering if I should give serious consideration to spec'ing Di2. The 2 main concerns are general reliability and long term durability.
Anybody have any experience of the pro/cons?

There's the possibility of getting a Specialized Tarmac Expert SL4 Di2 at a reasonable discount but would probably need to factor in a wheel upgrade.
 LastBoyScout 11 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

Stick with mechanical and get even better wheels - that's what I'm doing.
Antigua 11 May 2014
In reply to LastBoyScout:

Is that based on experience? if so what put you off?

As for wheels I'm pretty sure I'm going to go for the American Classic Aero 420's
 sleavesley 11 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

I've had a go with dura ace di2, although due to cost am still with mechanical ten speed.
Regardless of mechanical or di2 I would be committing to 11 speed if going with shimano.
A lot of bikes that have discounts have the older di2 ten speed system, (which I would upgrade to with the di2 upgrade kit option, if it wasn't so expensive and I can get the 11 speed ultegra di2 for near enough the same price).

Think Andy on here would be able to advise you further though.
I have to say I was impressed with the smoothness of it all and the auto trim makes everything effortless.
 Bob 11 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

Andy of this parish has Di2 on most of his bikes. He's doing the Fred Whitton today so he'll have something to say when he gets back.

We were out in Majorca last year and a friend had a strange incident with his Di2 - a shop mechanic trapped the control cable when replacing a wheel. After this it just wouldn't work reliably: it would work when on the bike stand but not when being ridden. Back in the UK the local Shimano service centre couldn't fix it and it ended being sent back to Madison for a full strip down and analysis.
 Enty 11 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

As others have said, Andy's your man to ask - he loves it.

Personally I did what Last Boy Scout did and spent the extra dosh on wheels. You can get dura Ace 9000 for a good price.

We had an incident last year. I was running a tour from Nice with some Canadians and one guy's front mech just stopped working and he had to do three days of the tour with no big ring.

I think bikes should be 100% human powered anyway

E
 woolsack 11 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

Seeing one rider scurrying around before a race asking every other rider if they had a spare battery because he'd left his at home on charge did it for me.
Yes, bikes should be human powered

andymac 11 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

When I had a shot ,the front mech change was so smooth.

My feeling is that when ,and if ,it goes wrong ,it's not an easy fix.

More than likely a send away job.

Which is never good .

If normal Ultegra or Dura Ace goes wrong ,diagnosis and cure are fairly easy .an adjustment or two would solve the problem ,unless something nasty happens ,like the rear mech hanger snaps.
 LastBoyScout 11 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

> Is that based on experience? if so what put you off?

No experience, just economics - for an enthusiastic amateur like me with a limited budget, I can't justify the extra money on Di2 for the sake of it shifting 0.2 seconds quicker (or whatever it is). Cables are reliable, effective and easily/cheaply replaced when they go wrong.

I've also got got a terrible memory, so I'd forget to take/charge the battery!

I'm with Enty in that I think it's tech for the sake of tech.
 Liam M 11 May 2014
In reply to LastBoyScout:

> I'm with Enty in that I think it's tech for the sake of tech.

I think it depends what you're using it for. I've read a few comments from pros that suggest the capacity to have the buttons in multiple positions is advantageous, and the frequency of missed changes or dropped chains on rough sectors (e.g cobbles) are a lot lower with Di2, which can make the difference between an attack succeeding or not.

How much these matter for an amateur on a club ride is a different issue though.
Cambridge-Climber 11 May 2014
In reply to Antigua: Why complicate things with excessive tech?

It's just more to go wrong and harder to fix at the roadside.


 Enty 11 May 2014
In reply to Cambridge-Climber:

> Why complicate things with excessive tech?

> It's just more to go wrong and harder to fix at the roadside.

And when you're halfway through a tour through the Alps it can have a severe detrimental effect on your holiday.

E
 chrisa87 11 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

My gf's dad has it on his trek and loves it. Not for the shifting performance but on long rides it helps his wrists and prevents them from getting sore like they used to with mechanical shifting

 andy 11 May 2014
In reply to Enty:

> And when you're halfway through a tour through the Alps it can have a severe detrimental effect on your holiday.

> E

I've done c15,000 miles on Di2 over the last couple of years (both 10sp and 11sp) and apart from one loose cable incident (not terribly hard to fix - you just plug it in) I've never had a single malfunction. The bloke in Mallorca Bob refers to now reckons there was something wrong with it from new (there was - i always said it didn't work properly).

Everyone I know who has it swears by its reliability, and if you've managed to forget the battery then you're quite likely to forget your shoes!

Personally I had far more trouble with mechanical groupsets, but that's probably because I don't understand them and generally made things worse through random twiddling.

However given better wheels vs Di2 I'd go for wheels - fortunately I've not had to make that choice yet.
In reply to Antigua:

Manufactuers will always try and come up with new products to persuade us to part with our hard earned pennies.

Don't get me wrong, there's no way I'd go back to non indexed downtube shifters, 5 speed freewheels, 46/52 chainsets, toe clips, straps and nail on shoe cleats.

To be honest, unless I had oodles of spare cash and was seriously in to racing at elite level I can see no point in going from 10 speed to 11, or from mechanical to electronic shifting - though it's fair to say that in the next couple of years 11 speed looks as though it's going to be the only show in town once you get out of 'entry level' groupsets. Ultegra and Athena are already there, and it will probably trickle down to 105 and Centaur.

One downside of going from 10 to 11 has to be durability. All components will be made to tighter tolerances, and use slightly lighter gauge material thicknesses which will inevitably come under more strain and wear out more quickly.
 LastBoyScout 12 May 2014
In reply to Lord of Starkness:

My new bike is going to be 11-speed Chorus mechanical with compact chainset.

In all seriousness, I'm quite happy with the performance of 9-speed Ultegra on my current good bike and don't really "need" 11-speed, but don't really have any choice any more at that level.

This may well be the last road bike I buy for a LONG time, so there is an element of future-proofing it.

My hack bike is still 7-speed with down-tube shifters - rear gears can switch between indexed and friction. A friend of mine is sticking with 10-speed Campag, as he prefers it.

I suppose one advantage that off-sets the wear is that with 11-speed there are less jumps between teeth so I expect I'll be using more of the cassette, rather than just the 3 middle gears I currently use most of the time - I'll probably use the middle 5 now to fine-tune cadence. Hope that made sense.
Antigua 12 May 2014
In reply to sleavesley:

> A lot of bikes that have discounts have the older di2 ten speed system, (which I would upgrade to with the di2 upgrade kit option, if it wasn't so expensive and I can get the 11 speed ultegra di2 for near enough the same price).

Spot on thanks for that! on checking it was a 10 speed version of Di2. The dealer said that upgrading it to 11 would be prohibitively expensive. Seems that if I were to go for the Tarmac Di2 then a 2014 11 speed would be the best option although slightly more expensive.
 woolsack 12 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

> Spot on thanks for that! on checking it was a 10 speed version of Di2. The dealer said that upgrading it to 11 would be prohibitively expensive. Seems that if I were to go for the Tarmac Di2 then a 2014 11 speed would be the best option although slightly more expensive.

I'm holding out for the neural interface that changes gear through the power of thought, Ni2™
Antigua 12 May 2014
In reply to andy:

Thanks for the reply...... looking at the replies here plus in online reviews it seems to me that theres an increasing disconnect in views between those that have used electronic shifting and those that haven't.

The bike I was looking at turns out isn't suitiable which means that cost is going to be an issue.

Looking at it practically di2 is something you get at the start or not at all. I'd definitely like to spec a Di2 bike and compare it to a mechanical version. I can find a few bike within my price range that are spec'd with Di2 but frustratingly they all come with pretty mediocre wheel sets. Going on past experience the bike shops won't allow you to swap out the new unused wheels even for a much more expensive set which I'd like to do on a Di2 bike to keep costs down.
 andy 12 May 2014
In reply to Antigua: You can get a kit to convert mechanical Ultegra to Di2 for about £600 or so (that was when it was 10 speed - not sure if 11 has dribbled through yet) - you obviously need shifters, mechs and the wiring kit, but the chainset, cassette etc are the same, so you save a few quid.

 Enty 12 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

Like what has been said higher up - buy DA 9000 and spend the rest on some wheels.

Cheapest I found DA Di2 was 1900 quid but you can get DA 9000 for nearly half that then spend the rest on some Mavic R-Sys wheels.

It's a no brainer for me.(And I've used both electronic and mechanical quite a bit in the last couple of years)

E
Antigua 12 May 2014
In reply to Enty:
I'll be honest I'm not a bike expert and don't understand what your saying.

I have a budget of about £3.5k.

I originality thought that I'd get a Specialised Tarmac Expert Di2 which had been reduced from 4 to 3k that would allow me to spend the £600 to upgrade the wheels to the AC Aero 420's
Post edited at 19:01
 The New NickB 12 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:
Enty is talking about building up a bike to get what you want, rather than a bike built to a price point.

What is the bike for?
Post edited at 19:05
Antigua 12 May 2014
In reply to The New NickB:

Thanks, thats what I originality thought of doing even with my limited knowledge but costing it out the benefits were minimal once things like building the bike was factored in. There would also be the issue of warranty.

I'm looking to get a weekend bike for club rides and maybe a Sportive or 2. There's also talk of going to the Alps next year to ride some of the classics.
 Enty 12 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

Pretty much what Nick said. If you want to go for bling by all means do so. But if your budget is 3.5k you'll build a better bike without electronic shifters.

I'd also say don't be tempted to get integrated carbon wing bars and stem or carbon clincher wheels. Or even worse carbon wheels with ally rims - these are all bits of kit for posers who's look of their bike is more important than performance.

3 things to consider:

Performance

Bling

Cost

Get the balance of those 3 right and you'll have a super lightweight bike which performs like a top pro bike, even for 3.5k. Get it wrong and you'll have a heavy bike which looks cool and which might perform well but will tell everyone around you that you have all the gear but no idea

E

 andy 12 May 2014
In reply to Enty: My summer bike was £2.4k - DA Di2 (including brakes, chainset etc), DA C24 wheels, good quality carbon frame (Rose's top end frame in 2011, I got it in early 2012) and reasonable (although not top end) finishing kit. Stated weight 6.8kg, I weighed it at 7kg with Speedplay pedals and a bottle cage fitted. I think if you're prepared to have a bike from last year you can get a corking deal on "ready made" bikes, but personally I'd steer clear of Trek/Giant/Spesh "ready mades" as even at relatively high price points they seem to skimp on stuff like wheels. That's why I like the Germans, as they use decent quality wheels and finishing kit.

I've replaced the groupset as I clicked "buy" on 11sp Di2 DA whilst a bit squiffy on holiday, and the wheels are now racing Zeros (another beer purchase!), but I've been really happy with it - vaguely considering replacing the frame at some point with the Canyon CF jobby, as you can get the frame set for £300 off if you have a BC racing licence as part of their "sponsorship" deal.
Antigua 12 May 2014
In reply to Enty:

Thanks I can fully see what your saying and it makes perfect sense but the problem is that I just don't have the knowledge or experience to spec a bike to get the very best value out of my budget.

I did try to do this but found that although bike shops where happy to advice me on what to get they'd charge full RRP on all the parts plus a build fee and maybe take 10% off the final cost. This lost me most of the potential savings as understandably the bike shop weren't happy to offer advice only for me to sod off and buy the items at a discount online.

The compromise was to buy a full bike which got me some of the manufactures economies of scale and change the few bits that I wanted to upgrade i.e. the wheels.

I'm currently looking at the starting point for that bike i.e. is Di2 a valid option that I should be considering hence the original question.
Antigua 12 May 2014
In reply to andy:

> I'd steer clear of Trek/Giant/Spesh "ready mades" as even at relatively high price points they seem to skimp on stuff like wheels.

Not in my price range but the Wilier Cento 1 Air Ultegra 11 DI2 2014 at £4300 has wheels that can be bought for £125.

But the bit that bugs me is that most shops wouldn't allow you to upgrade them at time of purchase leaving you having to sell them on. They'd even lose a sale over it from my experience.
 The New NickB 12 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

I'm getting my new bike built up on Friday, I'm paying for 2 cheap hours when the shop is quiet and helping him do it, I'm also buying a saddle, DA peddles and any peripherals I need from him at 90% RRP. Having it built isn't costing me much of a premium. Frame, stem and bars are direct from Flandria, DA 9000 from Ribble, wheels are my current good wheels that will be upgraded in a few months.

Have you had a look at Ribble and Dolan, with them you choose the frame set, then have the option of upgrading groupset and wheels. if you are London based, Condor will do the same, but for a lot more money. Might be worth a trip to Lancashire.
 andy 12 May 2014
In reply to The New NickB:
Our local magician/mechanic is happy for you to source all your bits online and will then build the bike up for the cost of labour (or will help you build it up) - about £100 for the build, which effectively includes a really good bike build course, and all the bits you've forgotten to buy like cable caps and bar tape.
 The New NickB 12 May 2014
In reply to andy:

I suspect that is what it will cost me, taking in to account all the variables.
 woolsack 13 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

Looks like SRAM are entering the fray without wires
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/analysis-sram-wireless-electroni...
 jethro kiernan 13 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

if I had your budget and I was buying off the shelve I would get the below

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/bmc/teammachine-slr02-ultegra-2014-road...
with a set of these
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/shimano/dura-ace-c24-carbon-laminate-cl...

Next bike may well be a frame and build, local mechanic quite happy to do build/mechanic course for £100 would go for Ultegra build possibly with the 52/36

there are some great bikes out there happy shopping
 LastBoyScout 13 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

> I'll be honest I'm not a bike expert and don't understand what your saying.

> I have a budget of about £3.5k.

> I originality thought that I'd get a Specialised Tarmac Expert Di2 which had been reduced from 4 to 3k that would allow me to spend the £600 to upgrade the wheels to the AC Aero 420's

I have a budget of £3-3.5k, with the emphasis on £3k. Having looked at a few "off the peg" bikes I could get for that money (Wilier, De Rosa, etc), I would end up with a bike with a lower groupset than I wanted and cheap wheels. Attempting to build to spec through LBS would blow the budget and I'd still end up with cheap wheels.

So, I'm building it myself. Sourcing the parts separately (and mostly in sales), I will be able to put together nearly £5k of bike for just over £3k and some time. Warranty shouldn't be an issue, as each part has it's own warranty.
 LastBoyScout 13 May 2014
In reply to Enty:

> Pretty much what Nick said. If you want to go for bling by all means do so. But if your budget is 3.5k you'll build a better bike without electronic shifters.

Bingo

> I'd also say don't be tempted to get ... Or even worse carbon wheels with ally rims - these are all bits of kit for posers who's look of their bike is more important than performance.

That's me screwed, then

> Get the balance of those 3 right and you'll have a super lightweight bike which performs like a top pro bike, even for 3.5k. Get it wrong and you'll have a heavy bike which looks cool and which might perform well but will tell everyone around you that you have all the gear but no idea

Well, I hope I've got it right with my build.
 jethro kiernan 13 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:
> I'd also say don't be tempted to get ... Or even worse carbon wheels with ally rims - these are all bits of kit for posers who's look of their bike is more important than performance.


That's me screwed, then


oops guilty as charged your honour
 steev 13 May 2014
In reply to andy:

Do you have a link to some details of their sponsorhsip page? Can't find it on their website and google just sends me to their homepage.
andy guppy 13 May 2014
In reply to Antigua:

How about one of these for £3200
https://www.canyon.com/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3293
or for £2800
https://www.canyon.com/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3295
look like a real steal :]
Guppy
 malk 13 May 2014

In reply: if that bmc is an affordable price point, what is this?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/cube-agree-gtc-triple-road-bike-2013/rp-...
Post edited at 18:02
Antigua 13 May 2014
In reply to kevin stephens:

Interesting.... have been looking at Dolan

How would it compare to a Condor Baracchi Ultegra at £3500 or Di2 at £3800

Great pedigree but have heard from a number of people Condor aren't particularly good value.
 sleavesley 13 May 2014
In reply to andy:

I wish it was still that price! Ultegra di2 6870 is £699 but you obviously have to already have 6800 on the bike already. The full groupset can be had for £999. Or as Enty has said DA 9000 for around a grand with a 36/52 option for chainset too.
I'm still on Ultegra 6700 ten speed with 6600 on an older bike, both working flawlessly.
The ultegra di2 and DA Di2 seem to have vanished in upgrade form, although they can still be found, it's cheaper just to,upgrade to the latest, unless you can point me in the direction of s stonking deal I can't find!
 andy 13 May 2014
In reply to steev:

> Do you have a link to some details of their sponsorhsip page? Can't find it on their website and google just sends me to their homepage.

Interesting - if you google "canyon race sponsorship" you get a link to the page - but when you click it it just takes you to their home page. Maybe they've stopped it, or they've run out of kit for this year.
 steev 13 May 2014
In reply to andy:

Oh well, already ordered the bike anyway was just wondering if they'd apply a discount before they deliver it.

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...