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Windgather belays

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 climbwhenready 13 May 2014
"Belays can be awkward to arrange."

... exactly how awkward? If I have one full set of walnuts, torque nuts and 3-4 cams, are belays always going to be possible or do some of them need that one crucial piece of gear that might have been used on the route?
 Mr Fuller 13 May 2014
In reply to climbwhenready: No problem at all. I went there for my first time a month or so ago and got two or 3 bits of bomber gear for every belay. I thought there were a lot of worse crags for belays!
In reply to Mr Fuller:

That is what I like to hear

Thanks.
 Otis 13 May 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

The ease of belay anchors is slightly out of sync with the nature of the beginner friendly grades there - hence the mention in the book. However, you should be fine with that gear.

The belays are a little sparse for options in one or two places, but there's always something to go at. The biggest problem you're likely to face is when someone is belaying the route next to you and has pinched one of the spots.... but time (not extra gear!) sorts this one

Mike.

Tim Chappell 13 May 2014
In reply to Otis:

Let's retro-bolt it, just to make sure.
 Oujmik 14 May 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

It's the fact that it tops out so abruptly to flat grass that makes it a little trickier than some. It's not just a case of a sling over a spike or boulder, you typically need to place a few nuts in cracks at ground level. Nothing horrendous, just harder than the gear placements on the crag.
 andy_e 14 May 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

Just fine with modern gear. Great crag, vastly underrated imho for novices (but not complete beginners). Superb in v.diff to severe range. Almost all routes technically very interesting, quite hard for their grade, and remarkably sustained at their standard, packing lots of good moves into their short height. Much better than Birchens, in my opinion (mostly very uneven, undistinguished and scruffy routes). A lovely, 'remote' moorland setting too. The sort of place that anyone who's been taught how to belay, place gear etc. should go to, again and again, to consolidate their leading experience. (Next step would then be classic v.diffs and severes at the Roaches - all generally much better than Stanage. Stanage maybe best for first VSs, though, hopefully, most adventurous climbers would prefer to experience that on the mountain crags.)
 Offwidth 14 May 2014
In reply to Tim Chappell:

Sadly thats what has happened there in the past so its not so funny. The crag is fine for all but a few routes; where it is not so good is for setting up multiple SPA style anchors on neighbouring routes. Group use there requires care, especially as it is so busy already (arguably the third team to turn up there should take one look and go elsewhere).
 Offwidth 14 May 2014
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Fixed that for you

Just fine with modern gear. Great crag, well known for novices (including complete beginners). Superb in Mod to VS range. Almost all routes technically very interesting, spot on grade wise but steep for their grade with better holds than most grit (exceptions being the few routes on the more rounded south facing sidewalls) packing lots of good moves into their short height. Much better than Birchens, in my opinion (often uneven routes with hard starts and more skils required to deal with rounded holds, yet very good if you like that and a great solo venue for the experinced and brillaint bouldering across the grade range and a few quality extremes to go at). A lovely moorland setting, the sort of place that anyone who's been taught how to belay, place gear etc. should go to a few times, to consolidate their leading experience (next step would then be v.diffs and severes on more famous crags). Stanage maybe best for first VSs, though, hopefully, most adventurous climbers would prefer to experience that on the mountain crags.)
 Otis 14 May 2014
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

It sounds like you're a fully paid up member of the Windgather fan club Gordon! I can't argue with anything you've said though-you've summarised the place in a nutshell

Mike.
 Howard J 14 May 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

The anchors are fine but sometimes need to be searched for and a bit of imagination applied. Actually placing the gear isn't usually a problem and the kit you have should be fine, but finding placements and working out angles can be a bit tricky if you don't have a lot of experience at setting them up. Hence the comment that the ease of belay anchors is slightly out of sync with the nature of the beginner friendly grades.

What is harder to guarantee is that the piece of gear you need won't already have been used on the route. But this applies to most places.

In reply to Offwidth:

Hey, Steve. I don't like my posts to be messed with I don't think Windgather is good for complete beginners (well, you say 'well known', which means v little), without supervision and experience of placing gear. Short, hard (for grade) routes mean you can deck it more easily than longer routes that have quite easy starts. What you say about soloing at Birchens is dead right, but a completely different point.
 Offwidth 14 May 2014
In reply to Howard J:

I think the belays are OK enough and having to think helps teach beginners ideas that are hard to get over on a crag with easy perfect belays.

Anyway for people who want more detail our views are here:

http://offwidth.uptosummit.com/windgather_castle_naze.html
 Offwidth 14 May 2014
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
It's arguably the best place to start leading I know anywhere as it has good mods you can climb in balance and perfect Diff, VDiffs etc depending on how strong the climber is learning to lead. Your memory must be faulty if you have forgotten the good mods there. Falling on longer routes has its risks as you fall a long way when 20m out with rope stretch and on a easy route will almost certainly hit something. At Windgather you won't fall far and its steep enough you might miss everything and get caught on the rope. This is all irrespective of supervision being ideal, as of course many of us started without it.

If you don't want threads messing with don't diss birchen
Post edited at 14:26
 Howard J 14 May 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

> I think the belays are OK enough and having to think helps teach beginners ideas that are hard to get over on a crag with easy perfect belays.

Oh I quite agree, but for a complete novice some might be a bit of a challenge without someone more experienced to offer advice. There's usually plenty of people to ask though.

It's my local crag so I go there often.



In reply to Offwidth:

> It's arguably the best place to start leading I know anywhere as it has good mods you can climb in balance and perfect Diff, VDiffs etc depending on how strong the climber is learning to lead. Your memory must be faulty if you have forgotten the good mods there. Falling on longer routes has its risks as you fall a long way when 20m out with rope stretch and on a easy route will almost certainly hit something. At Windgather you won't fall far and its steep enough you might miss everything and get caught on the rope. This is all irrespective of supervision being ideal, as of course many of us started without it.

Well, yes, my memory of it is not particularly good, as I haven't been there for c. 15 years - and I associate it it with climbs of mostly around V.diff to VS. Probably because I didn't do any of the easiest routes. I do remember that quite a few of those mid-grade routes were technically quite tricky for their grade.

Re. supervision, I meant for more or less complete beginners. My brother and idea did just 3 days climbing with an instructor when we started, the last two routes being Flying Buttress and Spiral Stairs on the Cromlech. After that we climbed completely on own own, and not with any club for c.18 months. We basically did everything exactly as in Blackshaw's 'Mountaineering'. We didn't really get into trouble - oh, except I nearly came unstuck on Brant Direct (as described in a certain book )
 squirrel00 14 May 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

Some of the routes you have to get a bit imaginative with but most are pretty solid
In reply to climbwhenready:

I know I sometimes search for old threads about climbing venues I'm planning on visiting, so having been to windgather, I would report back: with a simple rack, if you can place gear, the belays are not an issue.

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