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Swanage - the road to E1

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 Ciderslider 14 May 2014
I'm currently getting a bit Swanage obsessed again and am off down to the Ruckle again to find Jo - which I gather is mid grade Swanage HVS.
The last couple of times I've been down I've been moving from the harder VS's to the Easy HVS.
So if I get up Jo without too much of a fight (which i think i should) I'm tempted to jump on Thunderball (top end HVS ?)
Also Billy Pigg - Aventura on steriods ?????
Really keen to get a Swanage E1 this year - so how do i progress ????
And before we start - done lightning wall, finale groove, aventura, heidleberg creature, tatra, legend direct, tensor 2, isis.
Cheers
Mark
In reply to Ciderslider:

Go to Pembroke instead. The rock is more solid and the grades are softer.

I didn't think there was much between Jo and Thuderball grade wise to be honest.

Dark Side of the Sun is not a good first E1.
 The Ivanator 14 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

I reckon that Eskimo Nell is no harder (and better protected) than your recent Isis detour - gets the E1 grade, but probably doesn't really leave you with the satisfaction of ticking a big Ruckle route at the grade.
 Kirill 14 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

My experience of Swanage E1's is limited, but Billy Pigg is hard. It's safe though, so if you not too bothered about on-sight, why not give it a go.
 David Rose 14 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

Mars is an absolutely brilliant E1. A bit intimidating but very safe, with plenty of rests.
 GrahamD 14 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

Agree with Eskimo Nell being good. Elysium and Strongbow are both fair at E1, both particularly good, solid and well protected. Billy Pigg is hard. Sinbad is good - bit of a well protected bouldery start but otherwise amenable.
 GrahamD 14 May 2014
In reply to davidoldfart:

> Mars is an absolutely brilliant E1. A bit intimidating but very safe, with plenty of rests.

That's my memory of it - E1 5A - but concensus seems to be its actually E2.
 Simon4 14 May 2014
In reply to davidoldfart:

A masterpiece of British understatement sir, I take my hat off to you!

Describing anything in the Black Zawn as "a bit intimidating" is like describing the Pacific ocean as "quite large and slightly wet" or Ghengis Khan as "a bit aggressive" or Antartica as "somewhat on the chilly side" - it is frankly terrifying, you feel lucky to be alive when you reach solid ground after there.
 clipskipper 14 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

fwiw, I believe Thunderball now gets the E1 grade. Not much difference between that and Jo, imho, so if the latter goes clean ...

I seem to remember finding Strongbow quite hard. Billy Pigg has good holds, but it's physical and requires commitment at the crux.

Agree with the comments on Eskimo Nell


Lee
 Cheese Monkey 14 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

Elysium is the only E1 I've done there but it's fair at the grade, straightforward and well protected. And very good!
 Russell Lovett 14 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:
Have a go at one of mine and Tim Dunsbys routes, The Grim Reaper if its still standing. When we done it I eas only realy climbing VS and did not find it to hard although the first pitch is quite bold and had a peg, although I was not leading I found it quite easy.
Post edited at 21:23
 JamButty 14 May 2014
In reply to GrahamD:
Bloody hell I'm glad Mars wasn't my first E1, I found it rock hard and very awkward with those upside down ledges!.
Grandmas groove was my first E1, but also stroof is a good testpiece you can lace and then go for it!


Ha just checked the logs - GG is now E2!! so either somethings fallen down or I was better than I thought

Post edited at 21:27
 Jonny2vests 14 May 2014
In reply to GrahamD:
> That's my memory of it - E1 5A - but concensus seems to be its actually E2.

Committing overhanging abseil, hanging belay at the tidal base, not easily escapable, and it might be soaking when you get down there, that's why I thought it gets E2 now. I've rescued a pair out of there.

The climbing, I agree, is more like E1. Easier than Stroof if you're fit and shit at cruxes.
Post edited at 21:47
 Mike Redmayne 14 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

The same advice when you asked his question last year I think!

Yes, Jo is very easy HVS, Thunderball a bit harder, so trying those a good idea. You've not done Behemoth yet, if I recall, so do that. The consensus is it isn't easy to suggest a good first E1 at Swanage. Not Billy Pigg, though you shouldn't come to any harm. Why not try Thunder Groove, a bit bold at the start but a well protected 5b crux. If that goes ok try Elysium or something. I've not done Eskimo Nell it it sounds like that could be a good first E1, if not with the kudos of something at the Ruckle.
 LucaC 15 May 2014
In reply to Mike Redmayne:

I thought Eskimo Nell was pretty soft, would be a good E1. Good rests to place gear in between harder, but obvious moves.

Elysium isn't as bad as it looks. Hard move on crimps above the peg, which is easy to back up with some small wires. Once your at the break it's pretty much plain sailing and you'll recognise the top from lightening wall.

My first ever E1 was Indirect at subluminal. Steady climbing but the first 2m is unprotected and the next bit relies on a thread which was in place when I did it a good few years ago. Might be worth a look, but you really wouldn't want to fall off the start.
 scott titt 15 May 2014
In reply to LJC:

Unfortunately the boulder at the bottom of The Indirect Route has been washed away, the route is now about E2/3 6a! The "thread" was a jammed nut on Puffin!
Back to the OP
I got blown out of the water by JCM for suggesting Billy Pigg as a first E1, but the crux is superbly protected and not so hard if you can do chin ups on secret holds.
Elysium is honest, obvious climbing, I find the moves on the crimps harder than BP, but then I was always a strong climber, not a good climber!
Mars was HVS when I did it, but then it plays to the strengths of a Swanage local-pulling big holds up stupidly overhanging rock (see above).
 GrahamD 15 May 2014
In reply to Mike Redmayne:

Of the E1s I've done in the Ruckle, Sinbad is probably the least committing (but obvious low, protected crux)

I don't think I'd say Jo was soft HVS - I'd have said its pretty benchmark. Not as hard as Spook, though, which is tough HVS

Routes like Behomoth will be bird restricted for a while yet so although a great route will probably come too late for the OP
 adam 24 15 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

I agree that Billy Pigg is nails for E1. It's protected, but the crux move is blind, awkward and powerful. Not a pleasant intro to E1. Elysium is a good suggestion and fair for E1. I also thought The Spook at guillemot ledge was an excellent route and worth a look (you want to lead P1) - striking line, well protected, honest moves but a bit pumpy.
 GrahamD 15 May 2014
In reply to adam 24:

Spook really needs to be done as one pitch if you are looking for a full E1 experience, though and - if you take CC guides as definitive in this area - Spook is still 'officially' HVS.
 flaneur 15 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

Elysium is not very much harder than Lightening Wall and in broadly the same style, a good choice for the reasonably technically adept, with the bonus of being a proper Ruckle route.

Mars is fine if you have good Swanage skills as Scott says. The climbing is sustained but straightforward, well-protected and you can rest after nearly every move. A safe E1 5a. If you were a bit freaked-out it might all get a bit emotional.
 scott titt 15 May 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

If you climb the line on the Rockfax topos then Spook may be E1, if you climb the line described in the definitive then HVS!
 GrahamD 15 May 2014
In reply to scott titt:

What is Spook going to get in the new CC guide ? I'd like to think Swanage was going to remain a bastion of harsh-but-fair grades (so Spook is a tough HVS)rather than the Pembroke scatter gun upgrade approach.
 GrahamD 15 May 2014
In reply to flaneur:

> Elysium is not very much harder than Lightening Wall and in broadly the same style, a good choice for the reasonably technically adept, with the bonus of being a proper Ruckle route.

I think you might have forgotten the thuggy bits between the top of the slab and the end of Lightning wall
 CurlyStevo 15 May 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

Seeing as the belay ledge is huge doing the spook in one pitch doesn't effect the grade as you can still rest as long as you like on the ledge.

I thought pitch 1 was pretty nails for HVS, pitch 2 I find quite straight forward (but I haven't lead it) and also 5a (not 5b) but not nearly as sustained.
 CurlyStevo 15 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

I'd give The Spook a go. Possibly it isn't E1 althought I didn't think Left Unconquerable was any easier. Pitch 1 is very well protected. Pitch 2 less so but that hard bit has pretty good gear although you do leave it behind a bit and the easy bits ain't hard!

Buzz Lightyear is a good one to try if you are looking for a solid HVS.
 steve taylor 15 May 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

> What is Spook going to get in the new CC guide ? I'd like to think Swanage was going to remain a bastion of harsh-but-fair grades (so Spook is a tough HVS)rather than the Pembroke scatter gun upgrade approach.

HVS 5a, 5a
 GrahamD 15 May 2014
In reply to steve taylor:

Excellent - it can remain as one of my favourite HVSs.

Really looking forward to the new book
 David Rose 15 May 2014
In reply to Simon4:

I think that's a little of an exaggeration. The rock is solid, the protection good. I wouldn't want to be down there in rough weather, but otherwise it's great. I admit the abseil down Astrid is slightly worrying (you have to put gear in as you descend in order not to swing into space) but it's not so bad...
 David Rose 15 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

One route I would not do: Golden Fleece. Brutal.
 Mike Redmayne 15 May 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

Sinbad, not such a bad idea. Rock a little brittle at times on p1 but pretty easy climbing after the start. The problem is the start, potentially frustrating if you've set your heart on it as your first E1 and then can't get off the ground.

Is Sapphire a crazy suggestion? It's at least easier than Billy Pigg, but gets you the full on Swanage experience. Run out for a while low down but fairly easy climbing at that stage.
 Kevster 15 May 2014
In reply to Mike Redmayne:

Stroof is many peoples first E1 at swanage, and probably for a reason. The hard bits are well protected. You can build a belay below.
Elysium is a good E1, it is relativly easy to read.
I would not recomend thunder ball as the start is potentially serious from the off.
Saphire I thought the traverse just after the 1st belay was a little dusty/exposed maybe for a nervous lead, but thats my opinion from memory.

How about the Spook? at Guillemot. It can suffer a little seepage, but the little overhang accepts gear around etc. And the bolder bit is at the top.
 Mark Warnett 15 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

My vote is for the Spook which is benchmark E1 at most crags in country. I found it bloody hard work when I climbed and was solid at e2 at time.

Sapphire is good but tough. elysium the same. Sinbad is not that great a route.

Personally thought Tudor rose easier than all of above so why not go straight to e2!?
 Tom Last 15 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

If you do Mars in The Black Zawn, might be wise to do Astrid first. I had an, ahem, 'interesting' time on it. Cool place though and close to the car!
 Kirill 16 May 2014
In reply to Mike Redmayne:

I wouldn't do Sapphire personally as a first E1. Apart from P1 somewhat lacking in protection, the step onto the arete at the start of P2 is not easy to protect either and the peg is in the dire state. But physically easier than Billy Pigg, I agree.
In reply to Ciderslider:

Sinbad is not that great, but it's a good suggestion; I'd say. Would be my choice out of all those mentioned, though I've not done Eskimo Nell.

jcm
 GrahamD 16 May 2014
In reply to Kevster:

The problem with Stroof is that a) its at Subluminal and therefore Swanage Lite and (b) it is abnormally technical for E1. It certainly doesn't suit my lard arse style of climbing.
 GrahamD 16 May 2014
In reply to Mark Warnett:

> My vote is for the Spook which is benchmark E1 at most crags in country. I found it bloody hard work when I climbed and was solid at e2 at time.

See ^^ . Spook will still be HVS in the new CC guide (and I applaud that). It would be a shame to do a 'first E1' if it wasn't definitively E1 !

Sapphire is not great. There is a very blind committing sequence to get over the overlap at the start of P2.

Tudor Rose is easy for E2 but I don't think it would feel easy to someone who hasn't done E1 yet. They would certainly want a competent E2 second.
 Kevster 16 May 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

Funny how routes are different for different folk. Having climbed with you, I know you're no slouch! But I didn't find stroof overly tough or especially hard to onsight. Different strokes etc. Funnily I found Tatra quite serious at VS, it was all those ledges and sticking out bits - gave me concerns.
I assume the OP will have seen a number of the lines - and maybe one inspires them more than others? Most of the heavily starred routes are well protected or it says if not in the text if you have rockfax - the CC book I thought was still being written? Just be suspect of in situ gear as it ages.

OP, enjoy, would be nice to have your feed back after your climb!
 The Ivanator 16 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:
One that has a soft reputation that I've looked at is Rufty's Roll Up at Blacker's Hole. I did the VS next to it (Tobacco Road - a good warm up)last summer and RRU looked to have decent gear, but I wasn't feeling quite in the form for E1. Just make sure you have a pre-placed rope in the right place for the exit - the loose steep top makes the Ruckle exits look like a walk in the park.
Whilst you are down there Parson's Pleasure is another decent VS.
Elsewhere I've onsighted Stroof on top rope and thought it was straightforward, think I just read the sequence right, didn't feel 5c to me, but whenever it comes up in Forum threads there are those that say it is nails and pushing 6a. Graunchy Grippers next to Stroof seemed pretty fair to me as well (and has gear).
Post edited at 13:44
OP Ciderslider 16 May 2014
In reply to Kevster:

It's really tough for me as pushing my grade means jumping on (and hopefully on sighting) the next hardest route at the top of my game. So that's why I keep asking about stuff - ideally what I want is well protected - I am probably stronger than the average bear (due to all my bouldering) and don't mind falling off - so thuggy is probably more my style.
I'm gonna try Jo first then maybe thunderball - if that goes well maybe lightning wall and a look at Elysium.
Also getting really psyched about the whole E1 thing - is it that much harder than HVS ???
 David Rose 16 May 2014
In reply to Kevster:

In my view, the second pitch of Tatra is the hardest 4b pitch anywhere. Crumbly and quite serious. The first is hard too. It was my first Swanage lead, when it was given VS 4c. Almost my last.
 GrahamD 16 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

Like any grade, there is a good degree of overlap between top end HVS and bottom end E1. Especially at Swanage where the HVS grade means something.
 GrahamD 16 May 2014
In reply to Kevster:

Well Tatra always was a sandbag, even for Swanage !
 jezb1 16 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:
> Also getting really psyched about the whole E1 thing - is it that much harder than HVS ???

I'd say, on average, it's about a grade harder

Eskimo Nell is a soft E1, but it's not a full on Swanage style route. It's decent enough and worth doing but not a full on Swanage experience.
Stroof isn't soft, but very well protected and again not the whole Ruckle experience that I guess you're after.

I'm sure you'll cruise Jo, I remember enjoying it.
Post edited at 15:54
 Martin Haworth 16 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

Try Thunderball, it is a brilliant route, well protected and soft for E1. If you cant get up that then forget E1 for a while. If you do get up it, then try Elysium, another top route and definately E1.
 Kevster 16 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:
I have heard several times that skipping HVS and going to E1 is best.
HVS has a fair number of unusual routes/thrutches/historic sandbags. E1s tend to be more honest climbing. So the thought goes....
Have to say though, swanage HVS grade has some excellent routes which aren't to be underestimated, and the difference between HVS and E1 are sometimes blurred at swanage as one person often gets a different experience to another.

At venues like swanage, the tougher sections of E1 are roughly similar to the climbing found on french 6a/6a+. If you can lead french 6a, then you wont have physical issues with the moves. Its just your head which you have to master, and maybe a little added stamina for gear.
I guess in answer, no, E1 is not a huge physical grade step above HVS, I do think it is mentally a step which people build up in their minds however. Maybe a change of letters from S to E does it, the thought that E is the start of the big league in British trad. Where it all gets serious etc etc

Thunderball if I recall correctly(as my friend found out with a sprained thumb): Good route, assuming the boulder is still at the bottom, from standing, there is a good small cam to protect the first move/boulder start. After that, gear is good and climbing safe from what I recall.
Post edited at 17:37
 Mark Warnett 17 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

Go to Pembroke where your average E1 feels like Swanage HVS!
OP Ciderslider 18 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

Jo was fantastic !!!!!! Really starting to get into the swing (excuse the pun) of the whole Swanage roof - pull though the bulge thing
So is thunderball similar to Jo ???? much harder ??????
 David Gainor 18 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

Hello mate. We met last year at the Ruckle, I was climbing with Lukey G - think you did Heidelberg Creature that day? Glad you enjoyed Jo, it's an awesome route!

The start of Thunderball is quite bold (there is a small cam that protects the move), but the holds are all there if you go for it. I found it the hardest move on the whole route.

The rest is all super steady and well protected, I remember pulling over the roof on pitch 2 thinking "is that it?", and I generally don't have an easy time at Swanage! Not worth the E1 5b Rockfax gives it, I'd say HVS 5a is bang on.
In reply to Ciderslider:

Well played, sir.

My tuppenceworth would be that Thunderball is noticeably harder; perhaps half to three-quarters of a grade. Jo is, by Swanage standards, an easy HVS. Thunderball is a pretty hard one, bordering on E1.

jcm
OP Ciderslider 19 May 2014
In reply to David Gainor:

Hi Dave how are you ? Thanks for the info - I'm really happy to actually be climbing my way through the Ruckle HVS's - hopefully that elusive E1 will come this year.
OP Ciderslider 19 May 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Cheers, So how does Jo compare with HVS/E1 elsewhere ?? (I've heard that Pembroke is soft grade wise compared ). Am I a million miles from bagging my first E1 proper ???
 jezb1 19 May 2014
In reply to Ciderslider:

I'd say Jo is a standard UK HVS grade route.

I'm sure that if you jump on an E1 you'll find it a significant step up from Jo, but keep pulling hard and you'll be ok. I know your gear placements must be good having seen the vid of you jumping off LU..!

Maybe climb some sport at Swanage / Portland to mix it up and try harder stuff.
OP Ciderslider 19 May 2014
In reply to jezb1:

Cheers Jez, really enjoyed it. It's amazing how the whole Swanage atmosphere makes it all seem a lot more serious. Thought that technically it was all pretty straightforward, it's just doing it with all the background exposure that ups the anti.

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