/ Redefined easier V grades in Rockfax

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Offwidth - on 15 May 2014
So with V0 redefined in Rockfax as 4c; V0+ as 5a; V1 as 5b; and V2 as 5c is this going to help or is it going to add to the confusion around UK lower grade bouldering?
LakesWinter on 15 May 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

Well, they're all easy so who can tell the difference anyway?
Rich D - on 15 May 2014
In reply to Offwidth:
V what? what's that in font?
Jonny2vests - on 15 May 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

Are those Font grades or British tech?
Coel Hellier - on 15 May 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

Let's face reality here. Lots of indoor bouldering walls use V grades. For simplicity they start at V0 then V1 etc. Beginners don't want to cope with nomenclature such as V0-, V0+ etc (nor does anyone else for that matter).

Therefore, V0 and V1 are going to be novice/warm-up sort of difficulties, which means starting around 4b and 4c. Further, since loads of people boulder indoors, these grades are going to creep outside also.

Anyhow, outdoor bouldering grades have never made the slightest sense to me (even internally within a system). The new Rockfax may have the beginnings of rational system, though I haven't got it yet so can't tell.

PS I think Sherman should be shot for inventing a system starting at very hard problems.

PPS Whoever invented putting font grades in the same typography as French grades and English tech should also be shot (though I do realise that all these originated as the same system, and then diverged).
Mick Ward - on 15 May 2014
In reply to Coel Hellier:

'What can be said at all can be said clearly.' (Wittgenstein) But then he went to Font...

Mick
Sean Kelly - on 15 May 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

There are only 2 grades in climbing, them you can do and them you can't!
Bulls Crack - on 15 May 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

> So with V0 redefined in Rockfax as 4c; V0+ as 5a; V1 as 5b; and V2 as 5c is this going to help or is it going to add to the confusion around UK lower grade bouldering?

That's what I've always assumed they were for short problems - but then again on most (short) problems I think in tech grades anyway
andrewmcleod - on 15 May 2014
In reply to Offwidth:
So...
V grades are bad because they don't start low enough and indoor centres heavily overgrade, and at the top end miss out a Font grade.
English tech grades are not familiar to anyone who doesn't do trad, don't go down below 4 (or at least are not used), are very wide grade boundaries as you get higher up, and are easily confused with French or Font grades.

I never understand what is wrong with Font grades - after all, English Tech is just a bastardized version of Font grades derived via Southern Sandstone, and from what I understand anything involving Southern Sandstone can't be good? :P

Font grades definitely go low enough (I climbed a 1a in Font this spring).
Post edited at 23:20
Merlin - on 15 May 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:

I would agree with you - at Reading I near enough flashed V6, I can't climb V6 and never will. Not by a long shot!
SteveRi - on 16 May 2014
In reply to Mick Ward:
> 'What can be said at all can be said clearly.' (Wittgenstein) But then he went to Font...

Hell yeah. Him and Bertrand Russell were the power team of their time until it all went wrong and they fell out over the Blues at Isatis. Never lose sight of the bigger picture people!
Post edited at 09:06
spidermonkey09 - on 16 May 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:

Fully agree, I think of bouldering in font grades now and they are the only thing that works lower down the system.
Ramblin dave - on 16 May 2014
In reply to spidermonkey09:
> Fully agree, I think of bouldering in font grades now and they are the only thing that works lower down the system.

Agreed. As far as I can see, there are two basic arguments against using them:
i) lower grades in Font are all over the shop and
ii) lots of walls use V grades.

i) is solved by picking your favourite mapping of UK tech to Font grades and sticking with that regardless of what the French think (you could even give the UK tech in brackets to for low grade problems until everyone's got used to it...), ii) is their problem and has an obvious solution.
Post edited at 10:14
Steve Crowe - on 16 May 2014
In reply to Offwidth:
I think in reality within the UK Font grades are generally used for the hardest blocs certainly 7a and above, V grades are usually the choice at around V2-V6 whereas the english tech grades are most often quoted for the easier bouldering 4a-5c. I also think that for the easiest climbs below 4a descriptive route grades are usually used.

The layout in the new Peak Bouldering by Rockfax does a good job at reflecting this however...

It is frustrating that every new bouldering guide feels the need to tweek the conversion table below V1. This can only add to the confusion for the easier climbs. That said I think that the grades used in the 2014 Peak Bouldering Rockfax could finally become the definative grades for many of the easier boulder problems.
Post edited at 10:33
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Offwidth - on 16 May 2014
In reply to Jonny2vests:

They are UK grades with V grades up to V3 when they swap to a combination with font grades. For the low end stuff its not so far from most of the more honest indoor walls I know that use V grades and the alignment also works for what is happening in the new YMC guides F4~4c etc.

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