UKC

Now I fully appreciate the idea of putting banned areas in guides for completeness / historical record or just in case it becomes unbanned at some point, but here's what I don't get:-
Why do I keep coming across guides with an area heavily highlighted as banned / no climbing, then turn the page and find a photo of someone climbing there?, in some cases it looks very recent too.

In reply to Frankie boy:

Any examples?

In reply to deacondeacon:

Am I allowed to mention them on here? No doubt someone will get upset and think I'm slating guidebooks or something.

In reply to Frankie boy:


Or in case people want to go there despite it being banned.

In reply to Coel Hellier:

I did wonder if that was the case with some of the photos.

In reply to Frankie boy:




Maybe because it shows what climbing is like there and that may encourage future climbers to try and get it unbanned as apposed to just it being forgotten forever?

In reply to Frankie boy:

People climb on banned crags - what's your point caller?

In reply to Removed User:

Point is that if a crag is banned, its banned and numpties going and climbing there anyway rarely helps to regain access. Thus, producing a guide saying a crag is banned then whacking in a photo of the author or his mate climbing there can be seen as advertising it in a "its banned but we dont care" way. Maybe the photos were taken in pre-ban times, i don't know, but theres always going to be someone who sees the photo and thinks "well if it's alright for him to climb there...".

In reply to Frankie boy:


Whether going there will hamper access being regained really depends on the individual situation of the crag. You are being sanctimonious in calling everyone who goes to banned crags "numpties".

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Maybe. I can see various crags may be banned for a whole range of different reasons and maybe in some cases there are circumstances making it feasible to climb there. But not all.If someone knows of a good reason why they can climb at a banned crag then fair enough I guess, but just going to one regardless is hardly fair especially when the bmc are working so hard to get access to some of these crags.
End of the day, people will either go or not, that's up to them. Personally, I'll avoid the banned ones unless we gain access.

In reply to Frankie boy:


As I said, that depends a lot on the specifics of the crag. There are banned crags where the BMC access reps will, if you talk to them privately, suggest that you just go and climb there and keep a low profile. Obviously, though, they don't quite say that on the web-page and in guidebooks.

In reply to Coel Hellier:
And there are other crags where the BMC are quite open in not supporting a ban

In reply to Frankie boy:

If you're a climber climbing on a banned crag there's very little chance anything bad is gonna happen. Trespass is not even a criminal offence so pretty much the worst thing that can happen is you'll be asked to leave.

If you write a guidebook encouraging people to climb somewhere banned you are a much easier target - they'll have your name and address for a start.

So guide writers tend to emphasise bans to protect themselves.

Climbers tend to ignore bans so they can go climbing. Pictures of people climbing is pretty much risk free. Even if you can identify the climber you still have to know when the pic was taken and its pretty unlikely anyone is going to attempt to take you to court for such a minor thing.

Some bans are worth sticking to however. If the BMC for instance is negotiating access to somewhere it _may_ be prudent to stick to the ban until the matter is sorted. And also agreed bans on sections of cliffs, most often for wildlife concerns, ignoring such bans risks getting whole crags banned or banned permanently. Hopefully most climbers would actually appreciate conservation measures for their own sake in such places.

In reply to Frankie boy:

Its bad enough with definitive guides - to do so in the older highly selective Dorset Rockfax with Durdle Door was just unforgiveable

i guess llanberis slate is a classic example... pretty much the whole guide is within areas where signs say no climbing

In reply to stp:


Tell that to those people using the public car park in Cheddar gorge, right above a banned crag which people are ignoring...

(Only what I've read here - no personal experience!)

In reply to MtnGeekUK:

So the crag is banned to protect climbers from idiot tourists? Never come across that before.

I guess there are different reasons. But many crags are banned just because the landowner wants it that way or is scared of some liability thing if someone has an accident. I suppose if its banned and someone has an accident then the landowner feels they can't be responsible (not that any climber would even think such a thing - the law is pretty weird though).

In reply to stp:

My understanding is that it's banned in a certain part of the gorge which is right above car park and visitors (inc climbers) car park.

Would you want to park your vehicle directly at the bottom of a crag, or have your non helmeted kids running around?

Although I've not climbed at Cheddar, I have been through and it's not exactly like you can tell people to park somewhere else, or move the centre?

Yes, it might be at the landowners request, but they allow it in quite a lot of the gorge, where they could turn round and say "s*d off".

Seems fair to just not climb in that bit...?

In reply to GrahamD:

Also repeated in the new Rockfax bouldering guide with a double page photo at Eastwood alongside text implying no one should climb there when in fact its a very busy crag with no real issues at all other than the landowner objecting to it.

Incidently to the poster above going on about numpties.... that would include every BMC access worker that I know. There are times when bans should be observed (rare flora or fauna, safety, a critcal time in negotiations etc) and times when they should not (none of the above issues).

In reply to Coel Hellier:

Some do say it on webpages. Even in guidebooks there are strong hints at times: the Froggatt introduction and access notes on Eastwood are classic.

In reply to Frankie boy:


Thats the spirit... very glad all the numpties turned out on Kinder all those years ago!