UKC

Half the world seems to be devoted to the Crossfit cult... but I get the impression that it hasn't really taken off in the UK?? (I could be wrong).

IMO, from a training perspective, most climbers would benefit from some decent cardio & working antagonists. Thoughts?

Cheers
LD

In reply to Lurking Dave:

I've been doing Crossfit for about nine months now, it seems to be pretty popular in the UK from what I've seen but I guess nothing like the US where it's been around a lot longer.

I find it works really well as complimentary training for climbing and mountaineering - I got my first Scottish V lead done comfortably this Winter past on a solid Crossfit fitness base. The whole Crossfit holistic lifestyle thing of training, eating paleo, basic self-physio, etc really suits me. I've never felt fitter. And none of my work shirts fit me any more. =o)

In reply to Lurking Dave:
It's fairly big in the UK, with the current female world champion (Samantha Briggs) being based at one of the Manchester gyms. I've trained at one of the Edinburgh gyms for about 2-3 years.

That said, CrossFit by design is not sport specific, so personally I don't buy into the 'whole CrossFit package', so to speak, and only use it as part of a more climbing-specific training plan. I also have some doubts about performing highly technical movements such as Olympic lifts for time.

Steve House's new book "Training for the new Alpinism" has a section on high intensity training, which is an umbrella term for most of the CrossFit workouts. It's worth a read for anyone serious about training for climbing.

Andrew.

In reply to Lurking Dave:

I've read a few things about CF as it sounded ideal and have a friend who's into it, unfortunately mainly it was criticism from respected sportsmen etc. I am sure many can people get away with it if they train at he right gym and are not injury prone but I know my body and it'd end up being a recipe for disaster.

I read a very interesting article the other day from a former professional track athlete which claimed that everyone initially sees a lot of improvement as they go from little or no exercise to lots, but afterwards plateaus as CF exercises don't make sense and are a recipe for injury. Eg doing Olympic lifts for time etc.

I don't know where the truth lies but I don't imagine CF being ideal for climbing - I am sure there are other ways to train that will give you more return for your time. I think the only meaningful way is to compare like for like because comparing gains by CF against doing nothing instead is obviously meaningless. I seriously doubt that any top level climbers spend any significant time doing CF...

In reply to Simos:

would a link to gym jones (Mark Twight's place) or Mountain Athlete in Jackson be appropriate at this point? they are pretty much espousing a 'cross-fit' style work-out...maybe it lends itself to a mounatineering/alpinism style climber?

In reply to Removed User:
Had a quick look at gym jones, doesn't look at all like CF to me but I am no expert. They actually seem to run tailored training programmes for whatever goals the athlete wants to achieve eg http://www.gymjones.com/training/log/

Maybe I don't fully understand what CF is but to me there is a difference between tailored specific cross training (which what gym jones looked like) and crossfit as a sport. (this actually what I meant by being more time efficient ways out there to improve one's climbing)

In reply to Lurking Dave:

have a look on youtube at the cross fit idiots

that will be enough to put you off it.

In reply to Lurking Dave:

youtube.com/watch?v=9e1jcajW0gg&

In reply to Lurking Dave:

Why I Don't Do CrossFit

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erin-simmons/why-i-dont-do-crossfit_b_5411771...

In reply to Lurking Dave:

I've done a class. It was pretty good as a 'something extra'. I think if you're doing a lot of climbing and doing crossfit isn't going to eat into your climbing time, then it's a good idea. However I suspect that doing yoga and a bit of running on rest days will give you similar gains.

I'll do more classes again in the future I reckon, especially as the local gym does a morning class which I can do before work.

In reply to Lurking Dave:
Hi Dave. Hope you're well.

Maybe it's just that the UK hasn't heard the rules yet.

The first rule of crossfit is that you must always talk about crossfit. That appears to be the case in NZ anyway
H.

In reply to Lurking Dave:

Cross fit well described.

youtube.com/watch?v=qnjYyfkcaNI&

In reply to Helen R:

True Helen.
I'm sick to death listening to people talk about crossfit. No one could be arsed doing circuits till some people realised idiots will do anything if you charge them enough and give it a snazzy name and angle.

Have to say though, it is well marketed, and they are fleecing the lemmings big time!

In reply to Lurking Dave:





Cardio has no direct benefit for your climbing.

To work antagonists just get a set of dumbells and use those alongside some bodyweight exercises rather than spending half your life and money at Crossfit.

Even then this should be a low priority compared to bouldering, fingerboarding, pullups etc.

In reply to Gene00:





Enjoyed that

In reply to shark:

Very funny

In reply to shark:
Maybe not if you're just a boulderiser or crag rat, but if you enjoy the whole joyous spectrum that climbing offers 'cardio' has a major benefit - such as a being able to safely get off the hill after 10 or more hours on the go.

As mentioned above there's a good explanation of why an approach entirely based on short duration high intensity workouts is not good and could result in a loss of aerobic performance in "Training for the New Alpinism". This is based on sound exercise physiology and generations of elite athletics coaching, rather than the pseudo science of a pyramid selling scheme dedicated to getting people to pay £100 a month to do circuits in a warehouse.

Twight also flirted with Crossfit, but saw a drop in his performance due to ditching the aerobic base from his training. He wrote about this in the article “there’s no such thing as a free lunch”, which is also repeated in House’s new training book.

In reply to Shani:




That nonsense article has got the online Crossfit zealots foaming at the mouth in the last week or so! There's plenty of heated responses to it out there, but here's one with a bit of balance: http://www.tabatatimes.com/no-crossfit-no-problem/

In reply to highaltitudebarista:
Agree the original one was unbalanced too but I really don't find that response balanced either. It's really not about hating, in fact I personally enjoy watching CrossFit etc and think those competing are awesome athletes but when looking into it a bit more closely, I really did not see a lot of evidence on why it's more effective than other exercise programmes. There is a lot about 'pain' and 'pushing' etc and unfortunately way too many videos of people doing CF with really bad form so some questioning is natural, if not necessary.

So I don't think questioning on whether it actually works well (beyond the normal gains that anyone doing anything with intensity would get) is hating at all? Many years ago when I last set my foot in a gym, if someone told me to do X sets of Y reps vs another combination, or what to exercise each day etc I would always ask why I should do so without meaning that I hated the gym (at the time at least!), I just wanted to understand what I would be aiming to achieve by what I was told to do. Similarly if I was doing CF, I would be asking the same questions as opposed to just accepting everything.

Unless those that advocate CF don't claim that it works really well as a form of exercise but that it's just something that they enjoy doing, in which case case closed. Anyone can do whatever makes them happy and as long as the risks are clearly explained to them and understood properly (easier said that done, having been there myself and sustaining injury in another sport just because of bad practices), then everyone's happy!

In reply to Lurking Dave:

I came across Crossfit around 2004, and the best thing it did was make me aware of different types of training (Olympic Lifts, heavy barbell exercises, kettlebells etc.). It was also a gateway to reading stuff from Dan John, Pavel Tsatsouline, Mark Rippetoe, Kelly Starrett, Mark Twight etc. Which was nice.

However, a lot of stuff on the main site turned me off, so I don't *do* CrossFit anymore (have done so alone and at a CF gym). I think individual CF gyms vary a huge amount, depending on the experience of who's running them. Good ones don't sacrifice form for reps, that kind of thing. I have a history of neck, shoulder and now lower back injuries, so doing heavy stuff for time is a recipe for disaster for me...

In reply to George Ormerod:
>'cardio' has a major benefit - such as a being able to safely get off the hill after 10 or more hours on the go.

Like I said Cardio has no direct benefit for your climbing. This would be an indirect benefit

In reply to George Ormerod:

I'd imagine that '10hr cardio fitness for hill walking' would come from lots of long hill walks. Whereas most people think of running and jogging for cardio. As such, it comes down to specificity.

If you want to climb hard, I see little need to do cardio (not least because energy systems exist along a continuum and as such intense work with manipulation of rests will give a cardio workout effect). If you want to do 10hr hill walks then get your cardio from long hill walks.

In reply to Lurking Dave:

A couple of people I know are well into their crossfit and always go on about it.

Some interesting articles;

http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly About how crossfit is exercise but not training, plus a bit about form etc.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-apology A look at some more positive aspects.