In reply to skog:
> If you're glamourising risk, you're giving a false impression of the risks vs benefits. That's something I certainly try to avoid. Again, I have no problem with people making informed decisions to take risks (and you've pretty much said you don't, either - why are you pursuing this line?)
I am pursuing this line and others to show that all things are relative.
You and I perceive climbing as an activity that involves minimal risk to those not involved and do not see any reason to restrict it. I have come across others who claim that climbing and walking encourages risk by the simple virtue that people do it (I disagree with them but that is their view) or that it is environmentally damaging (walkers are included in this).
> Are you deliberately missing the point?
Not at all the argument that guns should be banned because they can be used to kill more people in a single instance is flawed. While this is certainly the case with repeat action rapid fire weapons it certainly isn't the case for single shot target weapons nor for breach loading black powder weapons.
> Passive smoking is rightly restricted, and a pretty selfish thing to inflict on anyone on a regular basis.
So ban cigarettes.
> Vehicles, I think, bring more benefits than disadvantages, and are integral to our society; I'm pretty confident that third parties are safer from motorbikes than from cars, do you disagree?
My argument is that motorbikes are inherently more dangerous to the riders than if they were driving a car. It isn't that the motorbikes kill other people (which they can do) but that they are a fundamentally more dangerous mode of transport and unnecessary to society.
> You have a good point re alcohol abuse.
> That's my argument distorted to its worst possible representation, have you considered taking up politics?
My whole argument is not that any of the above should be banned but that a case can be made for banning them. So is the freedom they represent worth rescinding in order to make the world safer? In 1990 it was perfectly legal to own registered handguns provided you could provide a good reason, had no prior convictions, mental health issues, etc. that you could demonstrate they were kept safely separate from their ammo ( It is worth noting that semi-automatic weapons were banned in 1982. Interestingly in 1946 "self-defence" was no longer considered a good reason for owning a firearm. By the time firearms were totally banned in 1996 they were already heavily restricted and a long way from when the then prime minister Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, the Marquess of Salisbury said he would "laud the day when there was a rifle in every cottage in England").
So there were people going about their lawful business, shooting targets for their own pleasure strong in the belief that they were harming no one. Then next they are branded criminal lunatics.
It is easy when you are not involved in something to deride it and label it dangerous, you are not involved it is not your living or your hobby or your money, why not ban it? You can point out the dangers and declare that a ban it of benefit to public safety or protecting the morals of society and everyone will sleep safer at night knowing that one more danger has been erased from the world. A small freedom has been lost but what does that matter it wasn't your freedom? But gradually we all have our freedoms restricted. Perhaps it is the price we pay for living in densely packed societies, after all we need some rules and we do want a certain amount of safety. But when we do give a freedom we rarely get it back so when we do call for things to be banned it is wise to look at it from all angles and really think about what we are doing. We have a duty to protect society from the minority of maniacs but we also have a duty to protect the freedoms of the minority from the society they find themselves in.
Most people on here only see the dangers that guns represent and do not recognise why some regret the ban, they don't see a need to own a gun. Perhaps it is good that guns were banned but there are many things we do that we do not need to do or present dangers to ourselves or others.