UKC

5 vs Leads to be sure im a competent vs leader ?

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Preferably around Bolton or stanage.I looked at blackout a couple of weeks ago but it was green and vegetated so i left it.
 Arcturus 28 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:
Right Hand Tower Stanage. Now in the guidebook at HVS but was VS for years. Enjoy!
 Duncan Bourne 28 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

The File - Higgar Tor
Valkyrie - the Roaches
Central Climb - Hen Cloud
High Neb Butress - High Neb
Gardom's unconquerable - Gardoms Edge
Or
Broken Crack - Froggatt

I know two aren't near Stanage ( Valkyrie & Central Climb ) are worth seeking out
 lowersharpnose 28 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Asking for 5, you might just end up with some hard VS recommendations. You are competent if you can climb safely, without too much faff, have a good success rate and know when to leave a route for another day.
In reply to lowersharpnose:
Im obsessed with climbing E1,My aim is old man of hot.Ive lead 5 hvs and a half bolted E1.I want to go back and do it by the book and consolidated vs then hvs,and claim a full trad E1.Then start thinking hoy next year.
Post edited at 23:28
 ashtond6 28 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Dude just chill and it will come
How about climbing 10 6a/6a+ sport routes? Then u know you can do E1 moves?

You are about to get sandbagged on here

 EarlyBird 28 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

To be sure you're a competent VS leader you'll need to be leading the grade on a variety of rock types. How about:
The Crack - Gimmer
Noah's Warning - Dinas Cromlech
Little Brown Jug - Bosigran
Mur Y Niwl - Craig Yr Ysfa
South Face Direct - Chair Ladder?
In reply to EarlyBird:

right on q
 Skyfall 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:
I'd agree with almost all the above comments. techically to be a VS leader (to satisfy Offwidth) you've got to be able to do any vs of any style on any rock. Of course there's something in that but everyone has their weaknesses!

So expect some sandbags. Gimmer Crack is actually a good honest Lakes VS however and not a bad idea (if you were climbing in the area).

I'd recommend getting a lot of trad climbing in actually (rather than sports) as you need to learn to place gear efficiently and not psyche out. However, some sports is no bad idea. In theory, if you can lead 6a+ then E1 should be easy....
Post edited at 00:29
 danm 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

If you want to do the Old Man of Hoy you'll not only need to be able to climb E1, but deal with loose rock, multiple abseils and be prepared to solve problems like stuck ropes. Get solid on VS's but do as suggested and get on some classic longer VS's with some exposure in places like the Lakes and Wales. It'll stand you in better stead than just sticking to the grit. I'd spend the summer in the mountains and sea cliffs and then hit the grit come Autumn.
tri-nitro-tuolumne 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

If you're thinking of doing the Old Man of Hoy, why not do the Old Man of Stoer now. It's middle of the grade VS and you're probably ready for it now.
 Puppythedog 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

When I did the Old Man I was not a sure of myself E1 leader, I was however sure I could cope with a multi-pitch environment a long way from help where there's no phone signal. That is much more important in my view to achieve that goal. Can you problem solve half way up pitch two when the rope gets stuck? Happened to me

To be competent at VS I would agree with the other's statements about tying other rock types but would also add other styles, slabs, walls and cracks. I cannot recommend Valkyrie at The Roaches enough, Some of the VSs on Dinas Mot might be a nice play at Multi-pitching.

Good luck with both ambitions.
J1234 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:
Curving Crack Wilton 3
Bilberry Buttress Raven Crag
Jean Jeanie Trowbarrow
Eliminate A Dow Crag
High Neb Buttress Stanage


Sticking more strictly to your requirements, but then no Multi
Curving Crack Wilton 3
Samarkand Anglezarke
High Neb Buttress Stanage
Ellis`s Eliminate Stanage
Jean Jeanie, it`s in the Brick and you gotta climb limestone
Post edited at 08:20
 rurp 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Hargreaves
Fern crack
File
Mississippi buttress
High neb buttress
For a stanage list


Little brown jug
Diocese
Wreckers slab
Kinky boots
Piton route
For a south west multipitch vs trip

The crack
Eliminate a
Botterils slab
North west ? Or nnw on pilar rock
Trout dale pin direct
For a lakes trip

Sounds like you would have lots of fun but get no closer to your goal.
If you want to climb e1 do some more hvs lines then some more e1's then head out to the crumbling bird shit of hoy and get thrutching!
Good luck.
Removed User 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

The grit list:

Valkyrie - the Roaches
Altar Crack - Rivelin
Fairy Nuff - Standing Stones
Plumb Line - Running Hill Pits
Jester Cracks - Ashop Edge (Kinder)

I've put 3 Moorland classics in there because it ain't all about sensuous roadside millstone grit.
In reply to SCrossley:
Ive done crooked crack Wilton 3 and samarkand at Anglezarke
J1234 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:
Well if you have climbed them in good style only 3 more to go, however if you thugged your way up, go and climb them, properly.
or
Cherry Bomb at Egerton, whats the access at eggie at the moment
Christeena Wilton 1
Post edited at 09:14
In reply to SCrossley:
Ha fell off cherry bomb as i was going over the roof.I should of put a cam in under the roof but i didn't feel comfortable where i was bridged, i flapped and made a run for the top.when i come off,my last cam was about 1.5 meters below the roof,when i stopped falling my head was just below the graffiti on the wall.That was my first ever fall.I got back on and pissed it after the fall,but im gonna do it again clean before i tick it.cool climb
Post edited at 09:34
 Bulls Crack 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Just go and do Altar Crack 5 times?
 GrahamD 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Ribstone Crack
Hargreaves Original
Pothole Wall
One of the "Nots" on White Ghyll - is it Haste not with the traverse ?
Pel
In reply to GrahamD:

Done Hargreaves origainal found it pretty easy
In reply to GrahamD:

My mate ab,ed down pel and it was piss wet,we did lighthouse direct instead,i did 2nd pitch up the chimney.
In reply to SCrossley:

2nd,ed Cristina and found the start really hard,took me 10mins to get going,keep away from that one for a while lol
In reply to tri-nitro-toulumne:

Doesn't it involve swimming at some point,but it is on the list because my climbing partner hasn't done stoer,he has done hoy so i cant see me talking him into that one.
 rurp 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:
Hargreaves is a hardish VS so glad you found it easy

from your logbook you have led about 10 climbs over VS, none of them are listed as onsight and none of them are multipitch isolated birdshit covered sea cliffs!

Will you be climbing the old man with a more experienced second, if so go for it!

I guess if not just do some multipitch isolated sea cliffs covered with bird shit. You are already technically good enough
In reply to rurp:

We went to gogarth at weekend,My goal was dream,but it rained and when we got there run off was pouring out around the traverse pitch and more rain was expected in the afternoon.My mate said no go and to be honest i was glad,the more i looked at it for the promomertry the more scared i was getting lol concrete chimney looked terrifying.
 kyaizawa 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

I think you might get a different persepctive of VS outside of the Peak and North Wales.

If you're ever up north have a go at:
Pothole Direct, Pram Pushers' Paradise at Almscliff
Central Crack, Right Wall, Allan's Crack, Jabberwok at Brimham
Crease at Crookrise
S Crack, Walewska at Ilkley
Tiger's Wall, Lorraine at Bowden Doors
Wilfred Prickles, Tacitation at Trinity Kyloe Out

All supposedly VS, though some of the above are graded HVS in the Rockfax NE guide...

Elsewhere, off the top of my head I thought these were looking top end of the grade:
Inkerman Groove, Chudleigh
Adam, Fishers Folly and Kransic Crack, Shepherds

I'm pretty sure there's a lot more that I've forgotten about/erased from my memory!!
 Kirill 29 May 2014
In reply to Bulls Crack:

This is excellent!
 LakesWinter 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Ok in the Eastern Peak if you onsight these you're a solid VS leader:

Obscenity, Burbage North
File, Higgar Tor
Altar Crack, Rivelin
Fairy Steps, Stanage
Fern Crack, Stanage

All of the above are harder than S crack at Ilkley, well, Fairy Steps is easy but scary
 GrahamD 29 May 2014
In reply to LakesWinter:

> Ok in the Eastern Peak if you onsight these you're a solid VS leader:


No you're not. You can climb VS on short gritstone outcrops.
 LakesWinter 29 May 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

Right tell me a longer VS that you couldn't lead if you did those 5 then and the OP asked for near Stanage so that's what he got.
 GrahamD 29 May 2014
In reply to LakesWinter:

Lets try a few on Peak Limestone for a start:

Try Cummerbund, Evasor and Pothole Wall for a bit of variation
 Jimbo C 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Sounds like you want some steep cracks. Having climbed at Wilton, you should be ready.

At Stanage, try Thrombosis. Short but hard work.
Also, Wall Buttress at the plantation is a good stiff VS - or is it really HVS?

Go to Bamford, there are several quality VS routes there, try Gunpowder Crack VS 5b, if you get the start first go you're doing very well.

Go to Curbar and get spanked by some uncompromising crack lines. Little Innominate is a tough one - was VS but may be HVS.

For something more delicate, try Saul at Burbage South. The start is technical and tough, but don't expect to find much protection on the easier finish.
In reply to cheek to the rock:

I like to do some long multi pitch in the lakes.
 alasdair19 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Next time ur in the peak head to stoney and DO NOT fall off. Loads of classic vs routes but the protection is a bit more involved than average grit. Be careful on altar crack classic but potentially nasty.

If congo corner is the vs one on that buttress do it one of the best bits of rock on stanage.

Next time at stanage climb ten vs's between you, climb whatever is free and go for mileage. When u can do the same for hvs u will be more than ready for selected e1s and the old man of hoy...
 Ann S 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

You need to get up to Langdale -White Ghyll and knock off all the classic VS's there. Start with Slip Knot/ Gordion Knot / Haste Not and White Ghyll Wall in that order. All of these will give you good mulipitch experience on routes which incorporate a traverse, so your rope work and stance management become slick. If the route on Hoy which you hope to do has a traverse on it then get as much practice both as leader and second. It might also payoff to climb on sandstone which you can find at Helsby and Frodsham on the way to north Wales. Also as someone else has suggested get to the Roaches and do Valkerie; some people manage to have an epic on it.
In reply to alasdair19:

Hey Al,Let me know when your free and i will come to lanberis and tick some routes with you.
In reply to Ann S:

I really want to do valkerie,my mate says its over rated and is bad for rope drag,but i think it looks a great climb for position.Id love to climb in the lakes and i do think it could be our next trip.My pal wants to do a bank holiday weekend on skye,to do the traverse and im well up for that
 Ann S 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

The rope drag possibility is precisely why this route is recommended, so you learn not to let it happen on more serious crags.

If you do head Skyewards see if you can fit in a trip to Applecross on the mainland, to do the Cioch Nose which is also hard sandstone and is a long, though technically easy climb.

 EarlyBird 29 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

All my suggestions are good, honest VSs that while being the grade will test the leader - having said that maybe Mur Y Niwl is a bit borderline for the crux pitch.
 nwclimber 31 May 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Lots of good suggestions and good advice in this thread.
Just so you've got something to occupy you in the summer evenings, here are five suggestions, all VS 4c, all in Wilton and most, if not all, with something in them to give you pause for thought:

Wilton 1
Remembrance Corner
Leucocyte Right
The Corner (was going to suggest Flingle Bunt, but you've been on it already)

Wilton 2
Throsher

Wilton 3
Right Hand Route (go left at the top horizontal crack)

Enjoy!
 Rob Davies 02 Jun 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Most HVSs in Lancashire are easier than Cherry Bomb!
 TobyA 02 Jun 2014
In reply to tri-nitro-toulumne:

> If you're thinking of doing the Old Man of Hoy, why not do the Old Man of Stoer now. It's middle of the grade VS

Excepts for the first pitch which is greasy, dirty, bird poop covered 5a with the likelihood of drowning if you fall off carrying your full rack. (No, I didn't enjoy that pitch!)
 ellis 02 Jun 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Not local but would give a great tour:

Am Buachaille
Mousetrap (Dubh Loch)
Lorraine (Bowden)
Engineer's slab
The File
 GrahamD 02 Jun 2014
In reply to EarlyBird:

> All my suggestions are good, honest VSs that while being the grade will test the leader - having said that maybe Mur Y Niwl is a bit borderline for the crux pitch.

Thats the point, though, isn't it ? to be a well rounded VS leader you have to be able to deal with routes at the top end of the range, on different rock types in different conditions. not just mid grade or soft touches.
 EarlyBird 02 Jun 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

I agree entirely.
 Offwidth 02 Jun 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

I think (despite Skyfalls slander) that is all I expect as well, with even an allowance for the odd fail or ground up or even dog/yoyo in deteriorating conditions on a big route. Its almost impossible to be a solid VS leader and be able to lead nearly every VS, given all the sandbags and the skill-sets and experience required would pretty much, guarantee being solid at E1 in my terms. What bugs me are people that describe themselves as solid VS leaders when they can't lead most typical mid-grade routes of that grade (the worst 'VS leader' I came across was even nervous seconding a grade 2 scramble on Milestone Buttress). Plus the tendancy of some climbers to completely ignore some skill requirements that just limit their ability to enjoy big routes with a variety of tests: jamming, chimneys and offwidths most typically; although this is less of an issue to me if they are at least honest. There are some good suggestions above although Right Hand Tower has been HVS since the 1976 and is a very precarious sandbag for a VS leader.
 JdotP 02 Jun 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

I think everyone is just listing sandbags to try and be funny

(It is funny)
In reply to cheek to the rock:

I tried grade jumping at stanage sunday.Started with a vs inverted V,felt good so I climbed cave arret hvs next.My mate climb an E2 Mississippi direct variant,I managed the high step move that is the crux of the E1 called link,so next go I went for it,stepped up and fell of the slope hand holds.My mate came flying up as I come down,finished head height below the overhang.Biggest fall yet....back to Vs ha ha
 jezb1 02 Jun 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

I posted this on it's own thread but thought it might be worthwhile here too: http://www.jbmountainskills.co.uk/news/the-well-rounded-vs-leader

It's a blog post of mine on this subject.
In reply to jezb1:

Nice one pal
 GrahamD 03 Jun 2014
In reply to JdotP:

I don't think people are listing sandbags. They are listing routes at the top of the VS range against which a VS leader should be judging themselves.
 Offwidth 03 Jun 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

Except Right-Hand Tower and I may have missed others.
 woodsy 03 Jun 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

Jean Jeanie (Trowbarrow)
Rapunzle (Troy)
Throsher (Wilton 2)
Samarkand (Anglezarke)
Peel Off (Witches)


 GrahamD 03 Jun 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

Of all those that are in the guidebook at VS that is. When was the last time RH tower was given VS ? I'm pretty sure its HVS in my old ~ 1989 Stanage guid
 Offwidth 03 Jun 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

1963 2nd series Sheffield Stanage. Even Paul Nunn had it at HVS.
In reply to cheek to the rock:

I do have a big can
In reply to cheek to the rock:
Cam lol
Post edited at 21:26
 Duncan Bourne 04 Jun 2014
In reply to cheek to the rock:

If you want to lead E1 then technical talent is half the story. With anything in the E bracket it is more of a head game. It is good to consolidate your technique though, when you are a good few moves above your last runner it helps if you know that the moves are within you capabilities. For this reason I find that soloing easy single pitch climbs can help with the head, even VDiff, and as people have said try and climb on different rock types (leading), multi- pitch climbs especially
 GrahamD 04 Jun 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

Just looked at my oldest (1989) Stanage guide. It has LH Tower at VS 4C and RH Tower at HVS 5b. Both seemed about right.

Not done LH Tower for 20 odd years but it seems to have gone up in grade recent guidebooks. I remember that one being a pretty humbling experience to climb !
 Offwidth 04 Jun 2014
In reply to GrahamD:

Compared to Goliath Groove I think LHT is fair at HVS 4c its either bold or bloody awkward. RHT is gritstone delicacy incarnate.

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