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The Devastation of the Eastern Highlands

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Douglas Griffin 30 May 2014
 nw 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Grim. As one of the comments on the blog says, those photos have a gulag/concentration camp look about them.
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Not as bad as what is happening to the Southern Uplands by the subsidised wind companies scam.
 kwoods 30 May 2014
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
> Not as bad as what is happening to the Southern Uplands by the subsidised wind companies scam.

Sadly yes, it's turning into Scotlands shame imo. The motorway is a bit of a corridor of turbines - that isn't what bothers me most greatly, it's the land underneath that is ravaged. Quite sad. I hope the importance we attach to our high mountains in the Highlands can prevent this marching too close to the areas we feel as sacred.

I am digressing a little from the original point!
Post edited at 11:48
 Phil1919 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Wow, thanks for sharing that. Someone should be held to account?
 Doug 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Thanks for the link even if its depressing.
 Cuthbert 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Until there is proper land reform (good report recently) this will continue. Talking of "holding people to account" etc misses the issue.

In a way many hill goers are supporting this sort of activity - bear with me.

If we only ever look at the immediate issues and never think about what system is allowing this, we will never solve it. It is for this reason that the silence of the MCofS on land reform surprises me.

Currently the system allows anyone to buy as much land as they like, destroy it as in the link above, emply as few or as many people as they want, evict people from properties and so on and manage the land in a way that wrecks it for future generations.

Why we don't just place simple obligations on land owners is beyond me.
 kwoods 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Comment by Chris T on Facebook:

"Glad to see this has sparked some debate and comments! Please email the politicians, whatever you think of them. It's only by pressure that anything will change. They're not going to read this."
Douglas Griffin 30 May 2014
In reply to kwoods:

I've tweeted the link to Scottish Land & Estates ("Landowners and rural businesses working for the countryside. Our 2,500 members are at the heart of managing Scotland’s natural resources.") and invited them to comment.
Douglas Griffin 30 May 2014
In reply to Saor Alba:

> If we only ever look at the immediate issues and never think about what system is allowing this, we will never solve it.

I agree. The recent Land Reform Review Group report made 62 recommendations. 58 of them are within the remit of the devolved Scottish parliament. So even in the event of a 'No' vote in September, meaningful change ought to be possible given the political will to do so.
 Phil1919 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

That's really what I was thinking of when I said someone should be held to account. Someone should put forward their views to justify what is happening so I can see what we are dealing with....
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Surely one of the most important posts on UKC for a while. It'll be interesting what 'Scottish Land & Estates' have to say for themselves.
 Phil1919 30 May 2014
In reply to kwoods:

Which politician would be best to email given that I live in Kendal but feel strongly about this?
Douglas Griffin 30 May 2014
In reply to Phil1919:

They are undoubtedly managing Scotland's natural resources - to the benefit of whom, is the question.
Douglas Griffin 30 May 2014
In reply to Phil1919:

I'd suggest Paul Wheelhouse (Scottish Government Environment Minister) and perhaps Alistair Carmichael (Secretary of State for Scotland).
 Cuthbert 30 May 2014
In reply to Phil1919:

> That's really what I was thinking of when I said someone should be held to account. Someone should put forward their views to justify what is happening so I can see what we are dealing with....

This happens all the time. The existence of their justification does not make it right though.

Just google stuff like "sporting estates, jobs" if you want to see what they say.
 Phil1919 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Thanks
 Phil1919 30 May 2014
In reply to Saor Alba:

No I realise it doesn't make it right, but too be honest I'm just amazed that anyone could attempt to justify it. I think your misinterpreting where I'm coming from. Thanks for google advice, I'll get onto it.
 Cuthbert 30 May 2014
In reply to Phil1919:

I am not intending to be critical at all. My point is wonder why bodies such as the BMC, MCofS etc don't ever get involved in the land debate (unless it directly affects access to the hills etc). It often seems to me if hillwalkers and climbers basically don't care as long as they can indulge in recreation in their chosen area.

Some simple, and big changes would make a huge difference. Tax the estates to start with, limit how much someone can own, enforce community and ecological plans etc.

Of course this would mean moving away from the grouse shooting management model which is why they don't want it.
 Mr Ed 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

It's ridiculous how much damage this management type causes across the board.

I've got another thread running advocating the banning of driven grouse shooting along with the link to the petition:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=588360

Please sign the petition, or comment on the thread to raise the profile and if unsure do some research, write to MP's and make your voice heard.
 Phil1919 30 May 2014
In reply to Saor Alba:

From my point of view, I think about it a lot. I feel there isn't much I can do to influence the big picture apart from be the change I want to see. I'll certainly drop those two politicians a line. The view I get of some the land between Aviemore and Inverness on the train brings it home to me. I don't get the mentality of those who do it....I relaise its the money involved of course.
Douglas Griffin 30 May 2014
In reply to Saor Alba:

Hot off the (West Highland Free) Press:
http://www.andywightman.com/?p=3723
 Phil1919 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

I've sent an email to each of them.......but I'm not holding my breath!!
Douglas Griffin 30 May 2014
In reply to Phil1919:

Probably best not to get your hopes up.
 MG 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Any idea why this level of "infrastructure" is suddenly appearing rapidly? Estates could have done all this at any time in the last 50+ years, yet large tracks etc. seem to be appearing very rapidly over the last five or so years. What's changed?
Douglas Griffin 30 May 2014
In reply to MG:

Wondered the same myself. Perhaps there's more money to be made from their "sporting" activities than their used to be?
 Scomuir 30 May 2014
In reply to MG:

Trying to outdo each other, or "improve" the experience for their paying guests?

I've noticed a marked increase in these tracks in the past 5/6 years as well. Have found that where a path has been marked on a map, it's now a landrover track. Glen Esk seems to be particularly affected (e.g. Mount Battock, Hill of Wirren, etc). The south side of the Fungle road was a nice grass track, fairly inconspicuous from a great distance prior to 2011. It's rather different now. The track between Clachnabheinn and Mount Battock is in better shape than the road into my village.

Admittedly, I have used a lot of these tracks while out on the bike, which is mainly how I've found them, but the scale of them is disturbing.
 MG 30 May 2014
In reply to Scomuir:

They must cost ÂŁ10ks if not ÂŁ100ks to put in so there must be a strong driver to do so. Can shooters no longer walk? Apparently grouse shooting costs ÂŁ150/brace shot, which I suppose adds up.
 Scomuir 30 May 2014
In reply to MG:

I meant to add, the new tracks have been accompanied in some cases by plush looking buildings (e.g. south side of Hill of Wirren, to the East of Mount Battock (Grid Ref: 567854), on the col between Carn a' Gheoidh and Carn Mor near Glenshee).
 MG 30 May 2014
In reply to Scomuir:

I don't know that area well but south of Drumochter around Blair Atholl have a lot of new tracks around too, also NE from Inverness.
 Billhook 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

There are more than ever now for a couple of reasons I suspect.

Investment is greater for the simple reason the money to be made increases year on year as a % of your initial investment.

I'd also guess from the number of non toffs i now see around here that the clientel these sporting interests now attract both from europe and abroad are increasingly expecting more. I'm not talking about the Charles Wittington-Aspinal types who traditionally would be prepared to 'rough it' abit in a landrover for two or three days shooting per annum, accept getting their old tweeds wet or dirty.

An increasing number of shooters here appear to be the 'new money' type. "Looooooads a money!!!". They wear brand new 'country gear', purposely bought for their annual shoot. Unlike the Wittington hyphen types they've got money to throw away. They don't want discomfort or want to make an effort. So they need nice tracks vehicles with better suspension can get along. Nice place to have lunch ("we want to be like the toffs because this is how we think they live") and squeeze every possible brace out of their days shooting to brag about back home.

Its a no brainer really. Choice is :-

A) traditional run estate, 'traditional keepers' , traditional methods, fair bit of walking 'n getting wet if it rains, walk to the next drive, land rover to the bothy/shooting house for something the underkeepers have brought up. Nice day, nice company and a few grouse to boot.

B) modern estate. Keepers under pressure to produce high grouse/deer numbers. Get the shooters in as fast as possible - no time wasted walking if possible. Good creature comforts (these guys are used to driving high end luxury vehicles and certainly not landrovers!!!!) Nice day, lots of networking and looooooooaads of grouse to boast about.
Douglas Griffin 30 May 2014
In reply to Dave Perry:

Have just asked Andy Wightman on Twitter; he says that the reason for the recent increase in the extent of these tracks is not really known and that the whole issue is poorly understood, having had little oversight.

This recent guest post on his blog is interesting in this regard:
http://www.andywightman.com/?p=3716
 Billhook 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Well Douglas I never said mine was a scientific study. Just based on what seems to be the trend here in North Yorkshire noticed over the last 40 or so years.
Douglas Griffin 30 May 2014
In reply to Dave Perry:

Of course - I wasn't trying to contradict your experience.
drmarten 30 May 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

I suspect one of the reasons for the recent proliferation of these tracks may be because the estates fear a moratorium on track building. Scotland is being used for a 'safari experience'.
Moley 31 May 2014
In reply to Dave Perry:

> There are more than ever now for a couple of reasons I suspect.

> Investment is greater for the simple reason the money to be made increases year on year as a % of your initial investment.

> I'd also guess from the number of non toffs i now see around here that the clientel these sporting interests now attract both from europe and abroad are increasingly expecting more. I'm not talking about the Charles Wittington-Aspinal types who traditionally would be prepared to 'rough it' abit in a landrover for two or three days shooting per annum, accept getting their old tweeds wet or dirty.

> An increasing number of shooters here appear to be the 'new money' type. "Looooooads a money!!!". They wear brand new 'country gear', purposely bought for their annual shoot. Unlike the Wittington hyphen types they've got money to throw away. They don't want discomfort or want to make an effort. So they need nice tracks vehicles with better suspension can get along. Nice place to have lunch ("we want to be like the toffs because this is how we think they live") and squeeze every possible brace out of their days shooting to brag about back home.

> Its a no brainer really. Choice is :-

> A) traditional run estate, 'traditional keepers' , traditional methods, fair bit of walking 'n getting wet if it rains, walk to the next drive, land rover to the bothy/shooting house for something the underkeepers have brought up. Nice day, nice company and a few grouse to boot.

> B) modern estate. Keepers under pressure to produce high grouse/deer numbers. Get the shooters in as fast as possible - no time wasted walking if possible. Good creature comforts (these guys are used to driving high end luxury vehicles and certainly not landrovers!!!!) Nice day, lots of networking and looooooooaads of grouse to boast about.

This would sound spot on to me, it just mirrors life and modern attitudes and expectations across the board. All hardship and discomfort in life should be negated, there should be greater rewards for less effort and most importantly..........money should be able to buy everything.

Not just grouse shooting, even climbing Everest (and that's "climbers") has become a circus where money rules and ethics long went out the window. Or am I just a grumpy old cynic?
 Billhook 31 May 2014
In reply to Moley:

Probably not a cynic.

I just think its a consequence of much more disposable income and a more pressured work environment for many these days.
pasbury 02 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

The idea of these bellends driving across a landscape of burnt heather on a bulldozed track in a big range rover with tinted windows in order to blast away at some semi-tame unfortunate birds makes me want to devise some Earth First! style direct action. Either that or blast the wankers into oblivion with a bazooka.
 ColdWill 02 Jun 2014
In reply to pasbury:

Make that a Range Rover Sport.
 tony 02 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

I was walking on Carn an Fhreiceadain on Saturday - it's a Corbett just above Kingussie - and it's a depressing place. There are bulldozed tracks all over the place, with lodges perched up the hill at various places, obviously to cater for paying guests, and lots of signs of managed heather. The slight irony was that we didn't see any signs of grouse. Not very much wildlife at all in fact, but absolutely no grouse. As we were walking, we were passed by a couple in a big 4x4 who gave us a cheery wave as they went past.
Douglas Griffin 02 Jun 2014
In reply to tony:

I've had no reply from Scottish Land and Estates, unsurprisingly.
 Billhook 02 Jun 2014
In reply to tony:

Tony
At this time of the year grouse are silent and keep a very low profile as they';ll either be sitting on eggs or have small young and certainly do not want to draw attention to themselves or their offspring. Grouse moors are normally very full of grouse!
 tony 02 Jun 2014
In reply to Dave Perry:

I take your point, but I've been walking on other grouse moors at this time of year and there have been a lot more signs of life!
 Phil1919 06 Jun 2014
In reply to tony:

It would be good to do a Springwatch series from one of the estates. No recorded sequences from other areas allowed. Just live action from all the animals available.
 George Allan 08 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

To all concerned about the spread of unregulated hill tracks in the Scottish Highlands.

With reference to the hill tracks issue for those who don't already know.

Representing a range of concerned organisations, Scottish Environmental LINK has been running a vigorous campaign to try to persuade the Minister (Derek Mackay) to change the law to bring all hill tracks under full planning law. Derek Mackay is currently considering the matter SO ANY LETTERS SENT IMMEDIATELY will add weight to the case.

The legal situation is that hill tracks require planning consent except where they are for argricultural or forestry purposes for which no consent is needed (argricultural or forestry purposes are called 'permitted development'). Sporting estates get round this by bulldozing tracks without consent and, if challenged, claim the track is for agricultural purposes. In some cases they put a few sheep up there as 'tick mops'. Even when tracks have been legally challenged, and a small number have, and it has been found that the estate acted outwith the law, there has never been a requirement that the track be removed. The existence of such tracks is not the only problem. Because they are not subject to planning scrutiny, many are very badly constructed and are quickly subject to erosion creating further scarring.

I would like to STRONGLY URGE that, if you are concerned, you write quickly to the Minister before he takes his final decision. Personally I think it best to write rather than email as I think letters may well be taken more seriously but certainly email if you would prefer.

Suggested arguments:
-Your enjoyment of wild areas is being spoiled by the plethora of new bulldozed hilltracks. You are less likely to visit certain areas, and less likely to spend your money in remoter communities dependent on tourism, because of this.
-Many of these unregulated tracks, because they are not subject to planning consent, are badly made, quickly erode, and so further scar the landscape.
-You do not understand why all hill tracks are no subject to proper democratic scrutiny when virtually all other building projects, large and small, are. Say that you are simply asking for tracks to be regulated and that you are asking that permitted development rights be removed from hill tracks.
It goes without saying that, whilst pressing the case firmly, it is important to be polite!

The postal address: Derek Mackay, Minister for Local Government and Planning, St. Andrews House, Regent Road, Edinburgh EH1 3DG

Email address: scottish.ministers@scotland.gsi.gov.uk (title this 'For the urgent attention of Derek Mackay')

Do write- every contact adds weight.
Thanks.

George Allan (North East Mountain Trust)

Douglas Griffin 08 Jun 2014
In reply to George Allan:

Thanks, George - will do.

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