UKC

Prompted by a post this week on here about becoming a solid VS leader I put up a blog post with a selection of routes (S of the border), that if you can tick your way through you'd consider yourself a pretty confident VS leader!

http://www.jbmountainskills.co.uk/news/the-well-rounded-vs-leader

They're all good routes that I've done and think there's decent spread of crags, rock types and styles. Although in hindsight I've neglected to put any chimney/offwidth type routes in there.

In reply to jezb1:

good blog post!

In reply to jezb1:

Good effort! I don't know many of the routes but I like what you've done.
A question though - and this is not a dig! When did Armorican become HVS? It's always been VS in my mind, it is VS 4c in Rockfax Pembroke (2009) and when I led it in 2012 it felt VS (special and intimidating, but still VS...because VS was my maximum at that time).
I see the database here has it as HVS 5a and says it was downgraded in the CC 2002 supplement. I can see a potential argument for HVS, but surely not 5a??

As a climber desperate for some more HVS ticks to claim, I'd have to say I would never claim this one. I'd be interested in your thoughts (or more generally the history of Armorican grade shift )

For my money, if you want an intimidating North Pembrokeshire VS, look no further than Aries. For added spice, do it on a doubled 60m half rope so that when you get to the top, you can't get back to the belay stake

In reply to jezb1:

Enjoyed that post Jez. Done 7/9 routes on the list (including Nibelheim with your good self).

In reply to Blue Straggler:

To be honest I just went off the UKC grade without checking my Pembroke guide....

When I was looking for a Pembrokeshire route Aries was number one, then I saw Amorican and from memory I enjoyed that one a touch more. I love Pembrokeshire, need to get back this summer!

In reply to jezb1:


Glad to hear it!


I'd have to agree with that, admittedly. Aries was an "experience" even before the short rope "excitement" (although all the technical climbing is at sea level, really), whereas Armorican was a "good experience" I was really just querying the Rockfax grade there (only prompted to check it as your blog stated it was HVS)

In reply to jezb1:

For another Rock Type (you've got Sandstone from Baggy) I'd go for Act of God on the Gabbro in North Pembs. - if you've not done it get on it next time you're there, juggy, steep, somewhat bold and totally brilliant.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Looks good. I Need to do some more classic E1s so I can blog that version!

Rock Idol is on the list for next time.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I can answer this one - Armorican was originally given HVS, and believe it or not the '86 guide actually gave it HVS 5b (no, I've no idea why either). The current CC guide and the current Rockfax both (rightly) give it VS 4c. I guess it's possible it has actually got easier since the first ascent as cracks and incut holds have cleaned out, and St David's sandstone doesn't seem to polish at all - I first did it in '96 and it was no more than VS then.

Rick

In reply to jezb1:

Hey Jez, surely Left Unconquerable at Stanage ???? There's gotta be a Swanage one as well

In reply to Ciderslider:

Yeah I've got quite a lot of quality e1 ticks but could do with a bit more variation and a few more areas.

In reply to jezb1:

good list jez, turn it into a UKC ticklist list -

ps and I'd lose the background on your web page,
makes it hard to read and adds nothing,

In reply to lithos:
Cheers for the feedback, I can't work out how to get rid of the back ground! I find it annoying too!

In reply to jezb1:

Interesting list, but am I the only one who thinks it's a bit short for the purpose? I was thinking there'd be 50 routes at least!

In reply to Rog Wilko:

It's only a taster, it would take me ages to dig through my own archives for a relevant photo, then remember the route with any amount of detail, check the guide book, and then write a paragraph on each route!

In reply to jezb1:

Babel?

In reply to 9WS9c3jps92HFTEp:

Ha, that's going on my "Dirty but would be good with more traffic, if you like routes with tree mountaineering, sketchy descents, spiders and routes where the first foothold breaks off" list.

In reply to jezb1:

It's a great write up of some fantastic VS routes, nice to have the personal touch of your own photos for each one too. In terms of a set of routes that really give a climber the certainty that they could pick any VS route in any guidebook I'm not totally convinced though - most of the routes seem pretty mid grade in my opinion.
A few alternative thoughts for the same areas that might really test your VS mettle:
Cornwall: Not done loads down there but certainly found South Face Direct at Chair Ladder a more testing experience than Little Brown Jug (both ace routes and could be that LBJ played better to my strengths).
Devon: Lost Horizon is probably a more testing pitch at Baggy, but the unique start of Kinky Boots definitely throws a different challenge at the VS leader (especially a vertically challenged one) so guess it should be on the list. Great Western at Chudleigh might be another to consider.
Avon: Not done it but suspect Unknown Wall might be a more demanding lead than Gronk. Or extend it to Cheddar and throw in a real curveball ...Easy Pickings (one of the hardest and scariest VS leads I've done, deffo worth HVS 4c, pushing E1 5a!).
Wye: Fibre at Wyndcliff is much sterner than Nibelheim.
Pembroke: Armorican kind of has to be there, such a good climb and pretty testing for VS. For a more intimidating multi pitch alternative Act of God is a good complementary choice.
Dorset: Since the demise of Tatra in its VS form I would go along with Heidelberg as a tough test of VS credentials.
Peak: Valkyrie at the Roaches and The File offer different types of challenge but are both stiffer at the grade than Hargreaves I reckon. I'm sure there are plenty of real sandbags on the grit that I'm unaware of.
North Wales: Kirkus is a great mid grade route, Direct on Dinas Mot is technically considerably harder, getting a 5b pitch into the list should sort the VS wannabes out!
Lakes: Eliminate A as you recognise is brilliant, but actually in the lower half of the grade. Things like Eliminate C at Dow or F Route at Gimmer are tougher, but others will have more broad Lakes experience to draw on.
Also I reckon there are some real VS testers in Northumberland, quite a few I'd give a wide berth to!

In reply to jezb1:


Any jamming cracks at all! Surely hand jamming is absolutely fundamental to being solid at VS, for which The File is the most obvious choice.

In reply to jezb1:

All good points!

I might do another list on routes to become a solid vs routes and list 10 hvs routes...

In reply to jezb1:

Re. Routes to become a solid VS leader, could you please do a subset of routes for very short people which furnish gear every 3feet. Thank you.