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Campfires, Scotland

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 RomTheBear 03 Jun 2014

Just wondering if any of you are aware of the law in Scotland in regards to campfires, I can't seem to get a clear answer from the outdoor access code
I was told off by a park warden in the Cairngorms for supposedly having made a campfire near my bivvy spot, (I actually didn't have a campfire, there was a pre-existing fire pit there but the warden did not believe me when I told her it was there before I arrived).

I always thought it was acceptable to have a fire as long as it's not on peaty ground, kept small, and leaves no trace.
Post edited at 01:53
 Sharp 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

I think it's not without the landowners permission, not in enclosed land, not in a plantation and not near a public road. But I imagine common sense would be don't bother in touristy areas and a small fire anywhere else is probably going to be fine.
Removed User 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

Its a funny thing, but over here a campfire is almost always acceptable (and expected)unless there is a fire ban in effect due to extreme dry weather. Every campsite will have a fire pit but even wild camping would allow a fire. And we get some proper wild fires where whole communities have to be evacuated.

I suspect its a cultural thing.
 Rob Parsons 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

I don't know if this is covered by law, but 'Wild Camping - A Guide to Good Practice' by the MCofS says:

"Dead wood is an important habitat for insects and many small animals, so it is best to avoid fires even for cooking."

(See http://www.mcofs.org.uk/assets/pdfs/wildcamping.pdf )

I would personally discourage it in any case since I don't think it's possible to 'leave no trace' in this respect. Use a stove instead.
 Sharp 03 Jun 2014
In reply to Removed User:

> Its a funny thing, but over here a campfire is almost always acceptable (and expected)unless there is a fire ban in effect due to extreme dry weather. Every campsite will have a fire pit but even wild camping would allow a fire. And we get some proper wild fires where whole communities have to be evacuated.

> I suspect its a cultural thing.

Partly, partly a size thing, Scotland's a lot smaller than Canada and we like to experience the outdoors by all going to a small number of locations in large numbers, most of whom come from the city and may not be able to light a fire without getting the petrol can out. But if you're visiting a more remote place and don't cause any trouble you're unlikely to get any.
 Alan Breck 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

Not wanting to be a killjoy but what's the necessity for a fire? it doesn't keep the midges off. It's not necessary for survival. It's not necessary for cooking. Besides which most of the Scottish "wilderness" doesn't have trees & there's little or no wood apart from some burnt heather stems.
 rogerwebb 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

Scottish Outdoor Access Code Part 5 Annex 1:
'Never light an open fire during prolonged dry periods or in areas such as forests, woods, farmland, or on peaty ground or near to buildings or in cultural heritage sites where damage can easily be caused'

That just about covers Scotland.







 toad 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

It's odd. If you read forums like song of the paddle, you'd think fires were a mandatory requirement!
 coolhand 03 Jun 2014
Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but big burnt circles wherever you've camped?

Nope.

No need for fires.

If you like fire that much, get a woodburning stove at home.


 OMR 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

Even in bothies people are increasingly being encouraged to carry in a little coal for the fire/stove rather than burning locally-sourced wood.
 nw 03 Jun 2014
In reply to Alan Breck:

> Not wanting to be a killjoy but what's the necessity for a fire? it doesn't keep the midges off.

You are doing it wrong. A smoky fire is THE best way to manage midges. Agree with the rest of your points, but fires are great. Cave brain like. Have on um beach.

 Dauphin 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

Seem to be a lot more Europeans back packing around Scotland these days and they seem to have a bigger need to build a fire everywhere they camp. In a bothy I'll have one if its super cold or a long night. Otherwise more trouble than they are worth - yet another admin task that can be negated by wearing correct clothing.

D
 Billhook 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

You cannot have 'no trace' fires on grass or vegetation in the UK. Fires destroy both the bacteria and the microscopic fungi grasses and other plants need to grow.
 Flinticus 03 Jun 2014
In reply to Dave Perry:

I've lit fires in previously established fire pits several times in remote areas. I will no doubt do so again. If I ever was to light a fire in a fresh location, I'd dig up the turf beforehand and line with stones but I wouldn't bother with the fire at all in that case as that would be too much trouble.

You cannot have a 'no trace' activity at all. Period. We should just all stay at home. In fact, we should all just kill ourselves as life leaves a trace. How many insects are killed by cars heading up the road to the hills, let alone foxes, badgers, deer, birds, hedgehogs? How many insects trampled under your boot? Paths worn etc etc
 redscotti 03 Jun 2014
If no fire, what do you toast your marshmallows on?
 ScraggyGoat 03 Jun 2014
Fires only on the shore below high water line, no where else please, even in established pits.

How many times have I found a nice flat bit of ground just big enough for a tent, only completely ruined by some tw*t having little a fire in the middle of it.
OP RomTheBear 03 Jun 2014
In reply to ScraggyGoat:

> Fires only on the shore below high water line, no where else please, even in established pits.

> How many times have I found a nice flat bit of ground just big enough for a tent, only completely ruined by some tw*t having little a fire in the middle of it.

From my experience if you build a small mound or use a firepan it leaves virtually no trace as long as you pick up only dead twigs and not dead logs which have lots of insect life in them.
And the resulting ashes can easily be spread around, they are a good fertilizer.
 iccle_bully 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

It's a slight repetition of what others have said but have a look at number 11 here:

http://cairngorms.co.uk/park-authority/outdoor/faqs

 Mal Grey 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

I would never light fires wild camping in the hills.

However, as someone alluded to earlier, when canoeing I often have a wood fire. I use a firebox, raised off the ground, and carry my own fuel. Its a great way of having a fire without doing damage to the environment (I know this isn't strictly true, depending on where wood came from, and all the usual things about burning fossil fuels getting there, but neither is using gas/petrol).

On the shore, I have dug pits in gravel or sand and had them in that, using driftwood or carefully collected standing dead wood - in such a way that I wouldn't take all from one spot, and leaving masses for insect life. This works in places which are less visited. Where others, less careful, would see your activity, its best not to, as they may see it as carte blance to burn everything in sight.

For bothies, which I visit almost entirely in winter, I always have a fire - its part of the experience as well as heating. Only once have we burnt anything found locally, when some massive trees from a landslip had blocked the stream outside and needed clearing anyway. The rest of the time we carry all fuel - mostly coal but occasionally a nice log for visual effect!
OP RomTheBear 03 Jun 2014
In reply to iccle_bully:
What I am wondering is whether you can be fined for having a fire and whether park rangers can legally prevent you from having a fire if you are having one in a responsible and clean manner.

All I can find are vague guidelines but nothing enforceable.
Post edited at 15:49
 Alan Breck 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

At the risk of repeating myself & not strictly in answer to the above I have to ask why a fire is an absolute necessity. The three lochs way for example states: "Helensburgh and District Access Trust does not recommend fires as they are unneccessary, messy and a potential hazard to forestry."

Got to agree with their comments. Stick to bothies in the winter if you want a fire. They're more difficult to light in a snow hole!

I would imagine that the Park Rangers wouldn't hesitate to call in plod if required. They'd soon sort out the relevant legislation for you.
Jim C 03 Jun 2014
In reply to Mal Grey:

> I would never light fires wild camping in the hills.

> For bothies, which I visit almost entirely in winter, I always have a fire - its part of the experience as well as heating...........we carry all fuel - mostly coal....

Good practice, but of course much easier to plan ahead and take it in , in the summer and bury it (with a GPS location if necessary) , than to slog in with it , possibly in deep snow, in the winter.

When I was going round the Bods in Shetland I had a bag of peat, and a little coal and wood kindling in my boot,and even if it was not cold , there was something therapeutic about having a living flame to look at in the evening and just let your thoughts drift back to what you had seen/ done that day.

OP RomTheBear 03 Jun 2014
In reply to Alan Breck:
Just to make it clear I am not desperate to have fires at all, in fact 99% of the time I don't have a fire, and when I do I usually do it in a firepan raised from the ground, with wood I brought myself from home or bought at the nearest petrol station.
But I found it quite unwelcome to be wrongly accused of having lit a fire simply because I was bivying next to an existing fire pit, and was wondering what the actual powers of park rangers are regarding this matter, and what the actual legislation is (rather than simply guidelines) and how it is enforced.
Post edited at 19:14
 Alan Breck 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:
Ah I see. That makes it clearer. If I see a park ranger I'll ask. No doubt you can have a friendly chat with one next time you see one.
Post edited at 20:38
 Joak 03 Jun 2014
In reply to Jim C:

>

>there was something therapeutic about having a living flame to look at in the evening and just let your thoughts drift back to what you had seen/ done that day.

In the evening when I'm wild camping I fan the flames of my imagination with a few drams of uisge beatha. This is also very therapeutic in a nice cozy reflective kinda way and promotes a good nights sleep. As I get older the fire gets easier to kindle and the fuel goes further
 Billhook 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

I am a volunteer ranger for our national park. Generally speaking you won't normally get fined for lighting a fire. Technically you haven't committed an offence except trespass although you may wish to go into semantics about damaging SSSIs/private property and the like.

All land is owned. It is up to the owner to decide what can and cannot happen on his or her land.
As none of our parks own land they can't have much control over it, although to a greater extent they do act with the owner's permission and consent.

So, there are places on the North York Moors for example where people do try to camp and light fires on private land. The park and its staff/volunteers know that the owner does not want people lighting fires and because the rangers wish to limit the damage fires can/may do, they'll move people on. If you refuse, then the owner could be called and/or the police because this is technically trespass and you'd be asked to move on.

On some fragile sites, the damage from camp fires can remain for years, especially those with poor soil quality. And thats not counting the fact that fires can and do go out of control, or if not put out properly flare up after folk have gone and burn large areas of moorland & health land. This happens regularly here and some years ago several thousand acres went up in smoke and the source was identified as a disposable barbecue left after use near a lay-by and spread to nearbye moorland.
 Mike-W-99 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

Was this around Derry Lodge by any chance?
Its the only place I've seen the NT ranger.He did have to advise a party to put their fire out.
OP RomTheBear 03 Jun 2014
In reply to Joak:

> >there was something therapeutic about having a living flame to look at in the evening and just let your thoughts drift back to what you had seen/ done that day.

> In the evening when I'm wild camping I fan the flames of my imagination with a few drams of uisge beatha. This is also very therapeutic in a nice cozy reflective kinda way and promotes a good nights sleep. As I get older the fire gets easier to kindle and the fuel goes further

Nicely put
 top cat 03 Jun 2014
In reply to RomTheBear:

Given the prices I pay for my tent and clothing there is no way I'm going anywhere near a fire...........one spark and my kit has a hole in it, and even without the spark it stinks like an ash-tray.

Get good, warm kit then you don't need a fire.
Jim C 04 Jun 2014
In reply to Joak:


> In the evening when I'm wild camping I fan the flames of my imagination with a few drams of q. This is also very therapeutic in a nice cozy reflective kinda way and promotes a good nights sleep. As I get older the fire gets easier to kindle and the fuel goes further

I'm TT, Joak, but I do have a get together with friends a couple of times a year where we share an open fire, and they share a dram, the drink is not for me, but I do find the flames of an open fire intoxicating.
The more remote the fire it is the better I find, and strangely if I am alone in a really remote area I can really lose my thoughts in the flames.
( I have some good fire memories from here)-
http://www.camping-bods.co.uk/

And I always think of this programme at some point
http://m.youtube.com/watch?autoplay=1&v=Oc46Gk-6qrA
 Flinticus 04 Jun 2014
I should add that when I have used a fire pit (again, always an existing one) I check the wood carefully for insect life (yes, really), removing any I find, or, if well established, leaving it alone and moving on. Fires are never big and kept well under control.

Its also a rare event and usually done near a loch / river using drift wood, never in the hills.

As for bothies, I usually bring in my own coal and a fire log, and then using what has been supplied by the estate (last bothy fire I had was largely fueled with sawn lenghts of old fence posts piled up outside the bothy for that purpose).
 mickyv33 04 Jun 2014
I understand a lot of the arguements against having a fire, in most cases there's really no need for one, having said that, I'd feel strange if I went camping and didn't have a fire at least every once in a while.
There's something primal about it and yeah it might kill some bacteria and insect life but so does walking on grass, driving a car, and a lot of other things we accept in modern life.
There shouldn't be anything wrong with having a small fire if you manage it responsibly.
What I don't understand is people who are outright saying you shouldn't do it because it's not necessary.

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