UKC

So I've been unofficially offered a PhD position.

Three years ago, when I completed my masters, I wouldn't have thought twice before accepting. It's with a great research group at a good university working in an exciting field of physics on an experiment that could have very interesting results in a couple of years time. So why aren't I terribly excited?

I wasn't a climber then. I am now, and I'm worried that doing a PhD will get in the way of me being able to climb. More to the point, I'd like to be going on extended climbing trips (week plus) to Scotland or abroad several times a year. I'm worried that I'll lose that. Is there anyone who's done a PhD and managed to continue going on climbing trips?

(Climbing isn't my only concern but it's one of them)

In reply to Trevers:

Surely doing a PhD is way more flexible than having a job? What are you options, PhD versus full time climbing bum?

In reply to Trevers:

Do the PhD. It's an unequivocal achievement and you can still get some climbing in. Plus, your earning potential will go up (although not by very much), so you'll be able to go on better trips in three years' time.

None of my mates who did PhDs seemed to have a problem with taking SERIOUS amounts of time off. And one day you'll be 43 and wishing you'd done a PhD before the kids and the mortgage and all the other accoutrements of life

Martin

In reply to Trevers:

Unless you have a total bastard as a supervisor, I can think of few other occupations better suited to mixing with climbing. Witness the hundreds of people on these forms with PhDs.

In reply to Trevers:

I totally agree with the above posters. PhD should be very flexible and give you plenty of time to go climbing, unless you have a total bastard of a supervisor. I "work from home" frequently and take plenty of time off. I'm supposed to take 6 weeks holiday a year but easily go over that with my PhD and have friends who take loads of time off and have still passed their vivas.

In reply to Trevers:

Its so flexible its untrue.. you are effectively your own boss.

In reply to stella1:

I found long weekends go down easier than week plus long trips.. they don't get countedthe same, so as long as you produce results you can 'work from home'...

In reply to Trevers:

I think you would be crazy to put climbing before a PhD. Doing a PhD is a lot of work, but you should be able to dovetail that with some climbing.

In reply to Trevers:

do the phd - as all above

In reply to Trevers:

As an ex PhD student and now a supervisor, I don't think you have too much to worry about on the climbing front. There are no set hours so it is the ultimate flexi-time. OK, there will be times you need to be in the lab for full days doing experiments, but in a lot of cases you are in control of the schedule.

There is no issue with the occasional week off and long weekends are easy to come by. When the weather is rubbish, or you know you cant get out climbing for other reasons, put the hours in - most supervisors are pretty relaxed when they have a student who clearly works hard when they are in the office (especially if you have colleagues in your group who struggle to get in before lunch...!).

Good luck with it - I am not going to claim that you wont hate it at times, but it is worth it.

In reply to Trevers:

My supervisor was keen people generally worked proper days (it was largely lab based, so not possible to "work from home") - ie at least 9-5, not 11-2! But taking days or weeks off wasn't a problem so long as I was generally seen to be putting the hours in - I was in Cambridge, my boyfriend was in Bristol, so there were plenty of long weekends. And certainly 2 week trips to the mountains in the summer, plus long weekends in Scotland in winter.

I'd say it was also the most useful "training" I've ever done, even in my current job (which is almost entirely unrelated to research).

In reply to Trevers:

My PhD stopped me taking long trips (>1 week) in the summer as I needed to visit my field experiments at least once a week in the growing season (PhD in plant ecology), but no problem with long weekends at any time of year or longer breaks in winter. Otherwise it was pretty much flexitime as long as the work got done. Would your 'experiment' impose time restraints ?

You don't say where you'll be based, I was in Aberdeen so easy to get out for evenings, weekends etc, might not have been so easy if in London.

In reply to Trevers:

Where will you study? If its in Holland I could imagine it might limit your climbing somewhat but otherwise I don't see why it would change anything. I did a PhD at the same time as having a full time job and had kids - the phd took longer unsurprisingly but I was climbing as much or more than before although getting a car was probably as important to that as the job/studies issue.

In reply to Trevers:

No need for "Decisions, decisions". Do the PhD. Crazy even to ask the question. Your description of London as "The Flatlands" belies some negativity and insecurity. Do your peers think that studying in London rather than hanging around some choss in the rain is "collaborating with The Man"?

In reply to jamespilgrim:


I think this is sometimes the case, but not always. It certainly worked out for me (maths PhD, very flexi indeed), but I've known people in biochemistry labs and the like who've been pretty much chained to a lab bench six days a week. So it'd be worth checking - eg asking other students in the same group how flexible they can be with working times.

If they're generally okay, though, go for it!

In reply to Trevers:


Maybe there's something else going on and the climbing side of things is a proxy for that? Perhaps you don't really love the subject as much as you need to for a doctorate? Or maybe you're just nervous about the demands after a few years of not studying? It is okay to not do a PhD if you don't want to...

In reply to Trevers:

Andy Cave did a PhD and it did not seem to impede his climbing in any way. I'd say go for it, if you are interested in the area of study. However, if you are not exited by the 'it', may be you have your answer.

In reply to Trevers:

Basically if you are going to get through a PhD I think you do need to really, really want to do it. Realistically doing mine has limited how much I can get out climbing although I am still aiming for 2 weekends a months and 3-5 weeks a year which I think is a reasonable amount.

In my lab, you are responsible for your own timekeeping so as long as you are making progress you can work whatever hours you want. The guidelines from my funding body suggest you should put in 40 hours per week and 6 weeks holiday per year, which I don't think is particularly onerous. It is more like doing a full time job than being a student, though.

In reply to Quiddity:

There are also people in London keen to get out midweek - so you can work around the weather a little bit (tho clearly it's not as handy as living in Sheffield or Bristol).

In reply to silhouette:
Thanks for the thoughts everyone.

I think I agree with those who said that you need to be really passionate to do a PhD. There's always the option to just do a year and see how it goes but I don't think anyone should be starting a PhD on that basis. And anyway, I've got a responsibility to the people making the offer, much more so than if I was just accepting any other offer.


Very perceptive of you

Going to have a good hard think...

In reply to Trevers:

10/10

Best troll ever!

In reply to Trevers:

I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree with most other posters. If you are passionate enough about climbing to worry about the impact a Phud will have on it, you are more likely than most to run into problems. Not saying it's a no, but give it serious thought.

I can remember asking my supervisor at my initial interview if he saw a problem with me doing trips climbing. He said no then but when it came to having just three weeks for a Yosemite trip teeth were sucked in a big way.
He had actually done some climbing so I had expected a more sympathetic attitude to climbing trips but the bottom line is that there are climbers and climbers. Other members of the group or department may have very different interpretations of flexibility on taking holidays. For many people two weeks is a long holiday! Only you know how afflicted you are and how much time you really want to spend climbing.

I was in Southampton and frankly hated the lack of local climbing. I drove to Sheffield 4 weekends out of 5 and it knackered me out. The result was that I came to hate the place and ultimately the Phd. In the end, I never wrote up.

As someone else said, you have to realllllllly love what you're doing. Another poster said you'd have to be crazy to ask the question - to turn that on it's head, if you're asking, maybe you don't love Physics enough?


In my case, it turned out okay. I was cured of my Chemistry and now work in climbing

In reply to IainWhitehouse:


I didnt at all.. It was very much a means to an end.. just get it done, treat it like a flexible job, the pay is good enough to do that. 13k a year tax free, no council tax to live as a student.. great life.

In reply to Trevers:

My sis' managed to do a PhD and have and begin to raise a kid over the same period of time. On that basis your two options don't appear mutually exclusive as others have said. Good luck.

In reply to IainRUK:


+1

Treat it like a job and you might as well be asking "Should I get a job or just live in a van and climb all the time?"

In reply to Trevers:

Oh I wish I was a PhD student...

That said, I have supervised PhDs where the student's heart was not in it, and that position does not lead to a PhD. So I'd say, as others have indicated, that (since being a PhD student is one of the best imaginable ways to do a job yet have enough flexibility to climb a lot) the issue here may be how you feel about the PhD.

In reply to BusyLizzie:


Absolutely right. My idea is that people thinking about doing one should ask themselves 1. do I need one i.e. will it be enough of a help for me in my aspirations to offset the time and trouble it will take, and 2. can I do one? The fact you've been 'unofficially offered' a chance shows that others think you can do it - but knowing yourself, can you do it? Finishing it is everything, it's not much use going 80-90% of the way IMO.

In reply to Trevers:

If you have to ask, don´t. A PhD can be great fun, an interesting challenge, but it certainly is also extremely hard work. You will only be successful and enjoy your time if your heaet is really in it.

CB

In reply to cb294:


Disagree with that. If the OP was saying "I'm not sure if I'm interested in physics enough to spend four years doing it" then you'd have a point. But they're saying "I'm really interested in physics but I'm not sure if it'll prevent me from climbing", so if the answer to that question is "no it won't", then they should probably go for it!

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Yes, and also stop this nonsense about London. A lot of people have to work there, particularly, early in their careers. Yes, it's more difficult to get to the climbing (but loads manage it), but it's many times more vibrant than most other places in the UK, both career-and culture-wise. Yes, it's tough, but life's tough. OP should get a grip and go for it.

In reply to KingStapo:

Nah. He returned to the thread before you posted that, thus breaking the first law of trolling

In reply to cb294:



Whether or not one should do a PhD seems to come up with the same frequency as which E1 should one do first, which makes me wonder whether they are not of a similar level of difficulty or challenge

In reply to IainRUK:


Holy, expletives. Do they really get that much now? It was half that when I were a lad (not so very long ago).

In reply to Trevers:

I'm in the final year of mine and finding not much time for climbing atm but that's mostly due to the knuckle down stage.

Yes it is more flexible than some jobs, and every group differs, but I've taken about 5 weeks in total holiday in 3 years now, work 6 days a week 3 weeks out of 4 and am on about 10/12 hour days to juggle the lab/theory.

Though this is chemistry not physics!

However, as mentioned while pretending to be a student bum it gives you access to lots of university stuff like climbing clubs to get partners/lifts places.

I think the best thing to ask in terms off average holidays and such is to talk to the other students in the group when the supervisor isn't around. Most will be pretty honest in what the norm is and should give you a good feel for things.

In reply to Trevers:

I've not read other replies yet, but during my PhD was the time I have climbed more than any other!

In reply to Trevers:

PhDs are easy - especially in Materials Science. Physics may be a bit trickier but in the end you'll have the best career prospects going.

Ultimately this will give you massive freedom and choice in your life which should facilitate lots of climbing and expensive trips around the world to do it, or jobs/post docs in exciting far flung destinations.

Get it done man!

In reply to IainWhitehouse:

It changed massively in the early 2000's.. went up 100%. I started 2001.

My mates started on 6k, I was on NERC + CASE.. so 13,000 + 1,000 I think, then could demonstrate, so all tax free and no council tax, worth a good 20k a year as an actual wage.

But Some Uni's have since brought in that they must demonstrate 100 hours / year.. which is 1,000 worth of demonstrating for free…

But even then friends were on the old wages, depends who funded you but I think all funded phd's are about that. US phd's can be way more.. but US post docs less than UK ones.

In reply to Trevers:

I remember working ridiculous hours when I was doing a PhD (in physics), weekends and evenings, all the time basically. I virtually camped out at the lab. But then, I managed to get married too and we had our first child, so life somehow rumbled on alongside.

I did have flexibility to decide how to run my day. I didn't realise how much freedom I had until I left research, years later. It was quite a shock then to find the timings of my week largely mapped out for me.

The actual amount of freedom you have could well depend on the group you work in. At other institutions that I worked in around Europe there were very different cultures. In one group even senior post-docs more or less had to clock in and out each day and everything was rigidly controlled, including leave, while in another even the postgrads came and went as they pleased, so long as they got the job done.

In reply to Mike Highbury:


Do I get another PhD for climbing TPS?

CB

In reply to cb294:

No. HVS is only worth an A level.

In reply to Mike Highbury:


We need a conversion chart!

If I can climb 5+ at the wall is that about the same as an MPhil?

Which higher education qualification is equivalent to a 3 hour marathon?

In reply to IainWhitehouse:


Current STFC PhD stipend is £13,726 outside London, £15,726 in London. This is tax free (no income tax or NI). Many PhD students can also earn additional money by helping to teach undergrads.

In reply to Coel Hellier:


And you don't pay council tax.. it's actually not gone up for a fair few years. I think I finished on 13k back in 2005. At least 12k anyway as maybe it was 12 + 1 CASE..

In reply to IainRUK:

To use that old American expression, surely it's a no-brainer?

In reply to Trevers:





If you want to climb then do a PhD. I had a lot of time to play with and the only thing that stopped me climbing during my PhD was the lack of fund (mostly due to an expensive car. lol)