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Hello.
I am toying with the idea of getting something like a Sony NEX camera second hand, and an adaptor for old lenses as I have a lot of nice old manual focus stuff.
Most of my lenses are Minolta MC/MD mount.
People seem to go on about mating Minolta lenses to Sony NEX cameras in particular, but as adaptors are available for other CSC cameras, I am confused as to why this is the case. Unless they mean Minolta AF lenses which may retain more NEX functionality with the right camera...or perhaps it's simply that Sony own Konica-Minolta's old photography division and people have just made that connection.
Any reason that I should look at Sony NEX as opposed to CSC offerings from Olympus, Panasonic, even Samsung? The bigger APS-C sensor is appealing, and I like Sony's colours.
I am thinking in the longer term of getting not only a simple adaptor but also something like a Mitakon Turbo II, to regain the FoV of some of my old lenses. Anybody got any thoughts on those?
Some Googling the other day (90% Sony-NEX-based) flagged up that the NEX F3 would be the one for me, as I like they way you can point the flash up for a bit of bounce.
Can't afford any toys for a couple of months anyway, but I thought I might start the ball rolling here.
All opinions welcome but be aware that I have almost made the decision to go for a NEX F3. I want an inbuilt flash so some of the low-end Olympus stuff is ruled out. Not looked into Samsung much; the Mitakon adaptors aren't being made for that mount AFAIK. Not looked into Panasonic at all, yet.
NB I would be after one with a "modern" lens on too, for "normal" use.
Looks like the NEX F3 currently goes for around £170-230 depending on whether it's got the 18-55 or the 16-50 mounted.
I am toying with the idea of getting something like a Sony NEX camera second hand, and an adaptor for old lenses as I have a lot of nice old manual focus stuff.
Most of my lenses are Minolta MC/MD mount.
People seem to go on about mating Minolta lenses to Sony NEX cameras in particular, but as adaptors are available for other CSC cameras, I am confused as to why this is the case. Unless they mean Minolta AF lenses which may retain more NEX functionality with the right camera...or perhaps it's simply that Sony own Konica-Minolta's old photography division and people have just made that connection.
Any reason that I should look at Sony NEX as opposed to CSC offerings from Olympus, Panasonic, even Samsung? The bigger APS-C sensor is appealing, and I like Sony's colours.
I am thinking in the longer term of getting not only a simple adaptor but also something like a Mitakon Turbo II, to regain the FoV of some of my old lenses. Anybody got any thoughts on those?
Some Googling the other day (90% Sony-NEX-based) flagged up that the NEX F3 would be the one for me, as I like they way you can point the flash up for a bit of bounce.
Can't afford any toys for a couple of months anyway, but I thought I might start the ball rolling here.
All opinions welcome but be aware that I have almost made the decision to go for a NEX F3. I want an inbuilt flash so some of the low-end Olympus stuff is ruled out. Not looked into Samsung much; the Mitakon adaptors aren't being made for that mount AFAIK. Not looked into Panasonic at all, yet.
NB I would be after one with a "modern" lens on too, for "normal" use.
Looks like the NEX F3 currently goes for around £170-230 depending on whether it's got the 18-55 or the 16-50 mounted.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Forgot to mention Fuji but all their CSC stuff is beyond my planned budget anyway
I have Minolta-mount lenses in 18, 24, 28, 45, 50, 58, 135 and 200mm prime (28 through to 135 all classic Minolta, the others "off brand"), and a great Vivitar 28-105 beast.
Got other mounts (Canon FD, Nikon, Pentax etc), the only "interesting" ones are a few M42
Forgot to mention Fuji but all their CSC stuff is beyond my planned budget anyway
I have Minolta-mount lenses in 18, 24, 28, 45, 50, 58, 135 and 200mm prime (28 through to 135 all classic Minolta, the others "off brand"), and a great Vivitar 28-105 beast.
Got other mounts (Canon FD, Nikon, Pentax etc), the only "interesting" ones are a few M42
Post edited at 23:14
In reply to Solaris:
Awww. What was it anyway? A "beyond the Straggler budget" one?
Essentially I am thinking £130ish body only, or £150-200 with a kit lens. Then I'd first add a simple adaptor for £20, and later on, if everything is nice (and I feel the need to regain the real FoV and perhaps the light increase), save for a Mitakon or whatever
Awww. What was it anyway? A "beyond the Straggler budget" one?
Essentially I am thinking £130ish body only, or £150-200 with a kit lens. Then I'd first add a simple adaptor for £20, and later on, if everything is nice (and I feel the need to regain the real FoV and perhaps the light increase), save for a Mitakon or whatever
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Once I realised I'd been shooting with the digital zoom switched on, I really started to enjoy using my £70 Lumix G10 and my old Contax 50 mm.
Off to Goodwood Festival of Speed later in the month and am hoping to have re-learnt how to focus manually properly by then.
Otherwise it's back to the FZ62.
Once I realised I'd been shooting with the digital zoom switched on, I really started to enjoy using my £70 Lumix G10 and my old Contax 50 mm.
Off to Goodwood Festival of Speed later in the month and am hoping to have re-learnt how to focus manually properly by then.
Otherwise it's back to the FZ62.
In reply to Tom Valentine:
That is food for thought, I see that a G10 with 14-42 kit lens is around £130 (I assume your £70 was body only and/or "mates' rates" or some other great bargain).
I was drawn to NEX-type stuff for the sake of the option to go compact(ish) if I wanted to buy a pancake lens.
I am liable to change my mind
Thanks
That is food for thought, I see that a G10 with 14-42 kit lens is around £130 (I assume your £70 was body only and/or "mates' rates" or some other great bargain).
I was drawn to NEX-type stuff for the sake of the option to go compact(ish) if I wanted to buy a pancake lens.
I am liable to change my mind
Thanks
In reply to Blue Straggler:
There seems to be quite a cottage industry of people with CNC machines making random adapter rings, so there is a chance you will find something to connect anything to anything if you cast your net wide enough. Don't expect it to work brilliantly unless you want manual everything though.
Ken Rockwell has a rant about adapters here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/lens-adapters.htm
Off topic: "CSC Cameras" is another one from the department of redundancy department. It's starting to grate almost as badly as "PIN Number"!
Yeah, I know.
There seems to be quite a cottage industry of people with CNC machines making random adapter rings, so there is a chance you will find something to connect anything to anything if you cast your net wide enough. Don't expect it to work brilliantly unless you want manual everything though.
Ken Rockwell has a rant about adapters here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/lens-adapters.htm
Off topic: "CSC Cameras" is another one from the department of redundancy department. It's starting to grate almost as badly as "PIN Number"!
Yeah, I know.
In reply to davidbeynon:
Mea culpa!
I blame my self-enforced acceptance of "PAT Testing"....
> Off topic: "CSC Cameras" is another one from the department of redundancy department. It's starting to grate almost as badly as "PIN Number"!
Mea culpa!
I blame my self-enforced acceptance of "PAT Testing"....
In reply to davidbeynon:
He defines me neatly
"Lens adapters are for tweakers, not for productive photographers."
Yup
> Ken Rockwell has a rant about adapters here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/lens-adapters.htm
He defines me neatly
"Lens adapters are for tweakers, not for productive photographers."
Yup
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Ken seems to think you have to adjust the aperture for every shot. I've found this not to be the case if you choose AP.
Also, I wonder what he would suggest we do with the lenses we have collected over the years? Put them in the green bin with all the wine bottles?
Having an old lens on my 4/3 CSCamera with limited automatic functions is nearly as good as shooting with my old Yashica FX 2000, except I don't have to wait a couple of days to see the results.
Happy to be counted as a tweaker, too.
Ken seems to think you have to adjust the aperture for every shot. I've found this not to be the case if you choose AP.
Also, I wonder what he would suggest we do with the lenses we have collected over the years? Put them in the green bin with all the wine bottles?
Having an old lens on my 4/3 CSCamera with limited automatic functions is nearly as good as shooting with my old Yashica FX 2000, except I don't have to wait a couple of days to see the results.
Happy to be counted as a tweaker, too.
Post edited at 20:24
In reply to Tom Valentine:
My main problem, years ago when I tried this with a Nikon D70, was that the viewfinder on the D70 was surprisingly poor - dark and small. Never an issue with new AF lenses as the camera "did the work" and you could see that it looked optimal in the viewfinder, but I just didn't get anywhere with manual focusing - even though I could focus sharply and in extremis with my old Minolta X-series cameras.
The improved screens and live-view of more modern CS/mirrorless Cameras, should hopefully help.
My main problem, years ago when I tried this with a Nikon D70, was that the viewfinder on the D70 was surprisingly poor - dark and small. Never an issue with new AF lenses as the camera "did the work" and you could see that it looked optimal in the viewfinder, but I just didn't get anywhere with manual focusing - even though I could focus sharply and in extremis with my old Minolta X-series cameras.
The improved screens and live-view of more modern CS/mirrorless Cameras, should hopefully help.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I've heard good reports about this lot, and their catalogue is fascinating!
http://srb-photographic.co.uk/sony-nex-lens-adaptors-654-c.asp
I've heard good reports about this lot, and their catalogue is fascinating!
http://srb-photographic.co.uk/sony-nex-lens-adaptors-654-c.asp
In reply to dek:
Oddly no Minolta MC/MD there!
C-mount is interesting, I have a very exotic C-mount lens (no focusing other than by moving the camera and/or changing distance from rear element to sensor, and a fixed aperture of 0.9!). Though I imagine its imaging circle is teeny. A Sill Optics industrial thing that I salvaged from the "scrap bin" of a major project :-/
Oddly no Minolta MC/MD there!
C-mount is interesting, I have a very exotic C-mount lens (no focusing other than by moving the camera and/or changing distance from rear element to sensor, and a fixed aperture of 0.9!). Though I imagine its imaging circle is teeny. A Sill Optics industrial thing that I salvaged from the "scrap bin" of a major project :-/
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Yeah! I had suggested plugging the gap in your first list, but then with your second post you did it yourself, and ruled my suggestion out! Sorry, but I hope you find what you're after.
> Awww. What was it anyway? A "beyond the Straggler budget" one?
Yeah! I had suggested plugging the gap in your first list, but then with your second post you did it yourself, and ruled my suggestion out! Sorry, but I hope you find what you're after.
I am "watching" some NEX F3 deals on That Auction Site
(there is a boxed ex-demo body only, for £150, but it would be nice to have at least ONE modern lens to play with)
Seems odd that there are some CSCs with no built-in flash but an "accessory shoe" onto which you could clip EITHER a flash OR an EVF. It kind of rules out certain "bright daylight" shooting where you might want both an EVF and a bit of fill flash.
Personally, as they are £120 - 200 a pop, I would live without an EVF
HEY!
What about the Canon EOS M system? Total turkey?
(there is a boxed ex-demo body only, for £150, but it would be nice to have at least ONE modern lens to play with)
Seems odd that there are some CSCs with no built-in flash but an "accessory shoe" onto which you could clip EITHER a flash OR an EVF. It kind of rules out certain "bright daylight" shooting where you might want both an EVF and a bit of fill flash.
Personally, as they are £120 - 200 a pop, I would live without an EVF
HEY!
What about the Canon EOS M system? Total turkey?
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Could you really work with, say, a 70-210 zoom on a micro4/3 CSCamera without an EVF?
Could you really work with, say, a 70-210 zoom on a micro4/3 CSCamera without an EVF?
In reply to Tom Valentine:
Mmmm probably not. Good point. But then again I have not tried! I don't often shoot at long focal lengths (and I know I listed my lenses above, but I doubt I would use the 200mm much - and if I did it would be via a Mitakon Turbo II i.e. "real" 200mm.
Likely to stick with kit lens for a lot of shooting, and switch to 18mm, 58mm, 28-105, and 135mm occasionally for a play.
This is why I'm looking at NEX F3 - I can in future add an EVF and retain flash, if that's what I really need.
But again, food for thought - obviously your kit has a viewfinder.
If I can find a NEX F3 at a good price, and then find that I really want a long telephoto on it and can't do withouth an EVF, I can either sell the F3 at little loss, or live without telephoto, or stump up for an EVF if I really love the camera.
I see Olympus bundle a modern 40-150 with the Pen EPL5 and that has no provision at all for an EVF afaik. But I guess your question relates to manual focusing.
Mmmm probably not. Good point. But then again I have not tried! I don't often shoot at long focal lengths (and I know I listed my lenses above, but I doubt I would use the 200mm much - and if I did it would be via a Mitakon Turbo II i.e. "real" 200mm.
Likely to stick with kit lens for a lot of shooting, and switch to 18mm, 58mm, 28-105, and 135mm occasionally for a play.
This is why I'm looking at NEX F3 - I can in future add an EVF and retain flash, if that's what I really need.
But again, food for thought - obviously your kit has a viewfinder.
If I can find a NEX F3 at a good price, and then find that I really want a long telephoto on it and can't do withouth an EVF, I can either sell the F3 at little loss, or live without telephoto, or stump up for an EVF if I really love the camera.
I see Olympus bundle a modern 40-150 with the Pen EPL5 and that has no provision at all for an EVF afaik. But I guess your question relates to manual focusing.
Post edited at 09:54
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I've got a clip on EVF for my Ricoh compact and it's great.
I wouldn't want another on my CSCamera, though. A built in one doesn't add to the bulk much and it's just like having a mini SLR.
Of course, if you are looking for a slimline you will have to make some compromises and I would question the whole notion of having a shirt pocket type thing with interchangeable lenses when there are so many extremely capable compacts about.
But who knows -maybe you can have your CSCake and eat it!
I've got a clip on EVF for my Ricoh compact and it's great.
I wouldn't want another on my CSCamera, though. A built in one doesn't add to the bulk much and it's just like having a mini SLR.
Of course, if you are looking for a slimline you will have to make some compromises and I would question the whole notion of having a shirt pocket type thing with interchangeable lenses when there are so many extremely capable compacts about.
But who knows -maybe you can have your CSCake and eat it!
Post edited at 10:08
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I've got the Nex6 to replace a Eos-10 and Canon Sx40. I can't fault the camera at all. Well i could be critical about the reduced subject isolation that you get with the micro 4:3 but that apart it's as good as i could hope for with a digital camera. I've not used it with a lens converter though, and one of the main advantages for me is the reduced bulk for the massive SLR lenses, but the package lenses are cheap on Ebay. The only thing i would warn about is the lack of viewfinder on the nex3 & 5. This can be averted by getting one with the external viewfinder that is otherwise very expensive (but does not seem to make a big difference in price for kits being sold on Ebay). I'm not really impressed with the 16-50 lens (soft), but its really small, so you can stick the camera in your pocket with this lens (try that with a slr). Jope this helps.
I've got the Nex6 to replace a Eos-10 and Canon Sx40. I can't fault the camera at all. Well i could be critical about the reduced subject isolation that you get with the micro 4:3 but that apart it's as good as i could hope for with a digital camera. I've not used it with a lens converter though, and one of the main advantages for me is the reduced bulk for the massive SLR lenses, but the package lenses are cheap on Ebay. The only thing i would warn about is the lack of viewfinder on the nex3 & 5. This can be averted by getting one with the external viewfinder that is otherwise very expensive (but does not seem to make a big difference in price for kits being sold on Ebay). I'm not really impressed with the 16-50 lens (soft), but its really small, so you can stick the camera in your pocket with this lens (try that with a slr). Jope this helps.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
By the time you buy the body, and all the bits n pieces to put together a camera, you could've had a used Sony RX 100 with better image quality without all the Faff?!
By the time you buy the body, and all the bits n pieces to put together a camera, you could've had a used Sony RX 100 with better image quality without all the Faff?!
In reply to dek:
The RX100 is good for wide angle shots & is very compact, but you have no option to expand once you've got it, and when you get rid of it (or it breaks) you've got nothing left. The RX10 also has a great lens, but its getting close to slr bulk.
The RX100 is good for wide angle shots & is very compact, but you have no option to expand once you've got it, and when you get rid of it (or it breaks) you've got nothing left. The RX10 also has a great lens, but its getting close to slr bulk.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
All the Oly m4/3 cameras have clip-in EVF capability, about £90 for the basic one. OR you can stick an optical one on the flash socket, which a mate has done successfully. It's some ancient brass thing, but only works on his favourite prime. All deliciously old-school.
Trouble is the EVF takes up the flash socket, so no flash when an EVF is fitted.
All the Oly m4/3 cameras have clip-in EVF capability, about £90 for the basic one. OR you can stick an optical one on the flash socket, which a mate has done successfully. It's some ancient brass thing, but only works on his favourite prime. All deliciously old-school.
Trouble is the EVF takes up the flash socket, so no flash when an EVF is fitted.
In reply to JDal:
Cheers. NEX F3 has a competent little built-in flash, separate from the "accessory shoe". Your mate's optical VF - I take it that it's just for framing? It can't help him to focus a lens, or am I missing a trick?
Cheers. NEX F3 has a competent little built-in flash, separate from the "accessory shoe". Your mate's optical VF - I take it that it's just for framing? It can't help him to focus a lens, or am I missing a trick?
In reply to Bounce Like a Fish:
Thanks
Hmm that is interesting, I found a few reviews last night that criticised the 16mm pancake for poor optical quality, and they all favoured the results from the 16-50 kit!
The thing about the external EVF is that I can consider it to be "optional" IF I decide to get one. The second hand price of a NEX body that has a built-in viewfinder, is probably rather higher than that of a 3 or 5....
Thanks
> I'm not really impressed with the 16-50 lens (soft), but its really small, so you can stick the camera in your pocket with this lens (try that with a slr).
Hmm that is interesting, I found a few reviews last night that criticised the 16mm pancake for poor optical quality, and they all favoured the results from the 16-50 kit!
The thing about the external EVF is that I can consider it to be "optional" IF I decide to get one. The second hand price of a NEX body that has a built-in viewfinder, is probably rather higher than that of a 3 or 5....
Shall I just get this instead, and shut up?
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/product/samsung-zoom-lens-pl211-hd_100342452
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/product/samsung-zoom-lens-pl211-hd_100342452
In reply to Blue Straggler:
>...Your mate's optical VF - I take it that it's just for framing? It can't help him to focus a lens, or am I missing a trick?
Just for framimg. Very old school.
>...Your mate's optical VF - I take it that it's just for framing? It can't help him to focus a lens, or am I missing a trick?
Just for framimg. Very old school.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Few things to mention...
1. Get a viewfinder. Looks like that only recent cameras have usable EVFs (electronic viewfinders). Especially for focusing, it makes a huge difference. Focusing through liveview is too painful.
2. Mirrorless cameras are great for old lenses because some brand cameras have in-body image stabilisation.
3. Mirrorless cameras are terrible for old lenses as you capture cropped image. Traditional SLRs had full frame "sensor" aka film (comparison here: http://images.gizmag.com/inline/camera-sensor-size-25.jpg ). That leads to larger DoF, but resolution is not the best too.
4. On a smaller body, all these M42 lenses look bad. Just too massive! It's not comfortable to use them either.
I've got Olympus E-PL5 with kit lens and Lumix 20mm F/1.7 pancake. It feels like a great set as I am used to work with 50mm lens on Full Frame cameras. I bought some adapters to fit other lenses, but I found the result not as pleasant as I expected.
Few things to mention...
1. Get a viewfinder. Looks like that only recent cameras have usable EVFs (electronic viewfinders). Especially for focusing, it makes a huge difference. Focusing through liveview is too painful.
2. Mirrorless cameras are great for old lenses because some brand cameras have in-body image stabilisation.
3. Mirrorless cameras are terrible for old lenses as you capture cropped image. Traditional SLRs had full frame "sensor" aka film (comparison here: http://images.gizmag.com/inline/camera-sensor-size-25.jpg ). That leads to larger DoF, but resolution is not the best too.
4. On a smaller body, all these M42 lenses look bad. Just too massive! It's not comfortable to use them either.
I've got Olympus E-PL5 with kit lens and Lumix 20mm F/1.7 pancake. It feels like a great set as I am used to work with 50mm lens on Full Frame cameras. I bought some adapters to fit other lenses, but I found the result not as pleasant as I expected.
In reply to Tom Valentine:
I am leaning toward copying you! Manual focusing issues, viewfinders, blah blah. Thanks for the heads up...
Have you got a link to some of your results from the G10 and your manual 50mm ? Do you tend to use the viewfinder mostly (as if it were an SLR)?
I am leaning toward copying you! Manual focusing issues, viewfinders, blah blah. Thanks for the heads up...
Have you got a link to some of your results from the G10 and your manual 50mm ? Do you tend to use the viewfinder mostly (as if it were an SLR)?
In reply to Blue Straggler:
dpreview in 2010 (pre-release of G10) were slating the EVF on that particular model. But they were comparing it to fancy ones. How are you finding it?
> Do you tend to use the viewfinder mostly (as if it were an SLR)?
dpreview in 2010 (pre-release of G10) were slating the EVF on that particular model. But they were comparing it to fancy ones. How are you finding it?
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I've got both the 16-50 and the 16 prime,now on an a6000. The 16-50 is notoriously bad for sample variation. I bought the 18-105g which is great, but i still use the 16-50 just because it's easy to carry in a pocket and the results are much better than my galaxy s4, and easily better than the Canon sx40 ever was (the nex has a much better sensor). For me, the sel16 is far sharper than the 16-50, but that may just be a good sample on the prime.
I've got both the 16-50 and the 16 prime,now on an a6000. The 16-50 is notoriously bad for sample variation. I bought the 18-105g which is great, but i still use the 16-50 just because it's easy to carry in a pocket and the results are much better than my galaxy s4, and easily better than the Canon sx40 ever was (the nex has a much better sensor). For me, the sel16 is far sharper than the 16-50, but that may just be a good sample on the prime.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I use the EVF at least 90% of the time, and i find the dmf mode invaluable (digital manual focus- where the initial focus is automatic then i can make a fine adjustment using the focus ring with the evf automatically zoomed in by around 20x) It's one of the features that makes the camera really work brilliantly week for me and i don't know if that work with an adaptor fitted.
I use the EVF at least 90% of the time, and i find the dmf mode invaluable (digital manual focus- where the initial focus is automatic then i can make a fine adjustment using the focus ring with the evf automatically zoomed in by around 20x) It's one of the features that makes the camera really work brilliantly week for me and i don't know if that work with an adaptor fitted.
In reply to Bounce Like a Fish:
Thanks.
It seems that this thread is saying "manual focus relying on live view on the LCD will be a frustrating exercise" so I shouldn't go down that path. Either NEX 6, or get an additional EVF at, what, £200....
or forget NEX and get something like Tom V's G10.
Although the 2x crop factor onto Micro 4/3 makes my manual lenses less appealing (in the last few years I've embraced wider angle FoV...I like 24mm on "full frame", and I can achieve this on a NEX but not on 4/3 even with a Lens Turbo thing)
Sigh. Complicated!
Thanks.
It seems that this thread is saying "manual focus relying on live view on the LCD will be a frustrating exercise" so I shouldn't go down that path. Either NEX 6, or get an additional EVF at, what, £200....
or forget NEX and get something like Tom V's G10.
Although the 2x crop factor onto Micro 4/3 makes my manual lenses less appealing (in the last few years I've embraced wider angle FoV...I like 24mm on "full frame", and I can achieve this on a NEX but not on 4/3 even with a Lens Turbo thing)
Sigh. Complicated!
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I use the EVF on my G10 100%. But today is the first time I ever used it in anger.
My flickr account is compromised. When it's sorted i will show you the best five shots I took today.
I use the EVF on my G10 100%. But today is the first time I ever used it in anger.
My flickr account is compromised. When it's sorted i will show you the best five shots I took today.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Is it worth going down your local sony stockist and asking if you can try one of your lenses on an nex body? I suppose if you get the body at the right price then you wouldn't lose that much anyway if you choose to resell it?
Is it worth going down your local sony stockist and asking if you can try one of your lenses on an nex body? I suppose if you get the body at the right price then you wouldn't lose that much anyway if you choose to resell it?
Somewhat going against my last conclusion about viewfinders etc, I am bidding on a NEX F3. I would say "drumroll...." but it's a fairly low bid so I am likely to "lose".
In reply to Bounce Like a Fish:
Good idea, I'd have to get the right adaptor first though, but that's relatively chickenfeed (for a straight adaptor, not a Lens Turbo). See what happens in the next 30 mins with this eBay doodah and I'll take it from there...
Good idea, I'd have to get the right adaptor first though, but that's relatively chickenfeed (for a straight adaptor, not a Lens Turbo). See what happens in the next 30 mins with this eBay doodah and I'll take it from there...
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Committed now! NEX F3 with a never-used 16-50. £135 + £12 p&p. Can't go TOO far wrong with this. If it doesn't work out, I'll sell it on.
Tom V - after putting in my bid, I learned of the Lumix G2 which can be had body only for £99. Looks like the "superior brother" to your G10 and I think I will consider it if the NEX does not work out.
G2 trumps the NEX with its viewfinder obviously, and the screen swivels in more directions. But the higher crop factor and high ISO results are poorer.
But we shall see. What an adventure! I haven't had a new toy since around 2010 (and that was just a little compact, subsequently sold on)
Committed now! NEX F3 with a never-used 16-50. £135 + £12 p&p. Can't go TOO far wrong with this. If it doesn't work out, I'll sell it on.
Tom V - after putting in my bid, I learned of the Lumix G2 which can be had body only for £99. Looks like the "superior brother" to your G10 and I think I will consider it if the NEX does not work out.
G2 trumps the NEX with its viewfinder obviously, and the screen swivels in more directions. But the higher crop factor and high ISO results are poorer.
But we shall see. What an adventure! I haven't had a new toy since around 2010 (and that was just a little compact, subsequently sold on)
In reply to Bounce Like a Fish:
Let's wait and see if it arrives in good nick first
I have faith. I am quite excited! Should be here on Wednesday. I'd better order an SD-HC card and reader I suppose...
As I just said to a mate, if I can't get on with manual focus with my old lenses using the LCD, I have three options:
1) Shell out for an EVF
2) Forget about my old lenses and just enjoy the NEX and the 16-50 and maybe even get another E-mount lens for it
3) Sell the whole lot and get something with a built-in viewfinder like the aforementioned Lumix G2 which I might well have got in the first place if I'd done a bit more research.
But I think I am in a win-win situation. Hurrah! Finally the ancient Cybershot F717 can enjoy its retirement...
Let's wait and see if it arrives in good nick first
I have faith. I am quite excited! Should be here on Wednesday. I'd better order an SD-HC card and reader I suppose...
As I just said to a mate, if I can't get on with manual focus with my old lenses using the LCD, I have three options:
1) Shell out for an EVF
2) Forget about my old lenses and just enjoy the NEX and the 16-50 and maybe even get another E-mount lens for it
3) Sell the whole lot and get something with a built-in viewfinder like the aforementioned Lumix G2 which I might well have got in the first place if I'd done a bit more research.
But I think I am in a win-win situation. Hurrah! Finally the ancient Cybershot F717 can enjoy its retirement...
In reply to Bounce Like a Fish:
Seller has upgraded to an a6000 which came bundled with the 16-50, and as that 16-50 is surplus to his requirements, he's put it in with my F3! I thought the 16-50 on the a6000 was a upgrade from the NEX kit 16-50, but maybe this guy prefers his 18-55 or something (I have no idea what other lenses he has), or just thought it would help him sell the camera more easily.
> (and slightly jealous (i paid list for my 16-50)
Seller has upgraded to an a6000 which came bundled with the 16-50, and as that 16-50 is surplus to his requirements, he's put it in with my F3! I thought the 16-50 on the a6000 was a upgrade from the NEX kit 16-50, but maybe this guy prefers his 18-55 or something (I have no idea what other lenses he has), or just thought it would help him sell the camera more easily.
....drumroll....
(got a tracking number, and it should reach me tomorrow)
I'll probably hate it
(got a tracking number, and it should reach me tomorrow)
I'll probably hate it
In reply to Blue Straggler:
It is here. I don't hate it! Smaller than I thought too.
Didn't know these things made a mechanical shutter sound though! I thought that being mirrorless, they would shoot like a compact, i.e. silently.
Shouldn't be a problem other than making me self conscious if trying to shoot at a tiny acoustic gig. Hopefully I will learn to live with it...
Tom V is your G10 the same? Are any CSCs silent? I obviously made a bit of an assumption
It is here. I don't hate it! Smaller than I thought too.
Didn't know these things made a mechanical shutter sound though! I thought that being mirrorless, they would shoot like a compact, i.e. silently.
Shouldn't be a problem other than making me self conscious if trying to shoot at a tiny acoustic gig. Hopefully I will learn to live with it...
Tom V is your G10 the same? Are any CSCs silent? I obviously made a bit of an assumption
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I was pondering on the noise thing myself. My FZ62 isn't silent but it's just shutter noise. The G10 sounds like they've built in a mirror noise to keep real photographers happy.I bet there's some way you can switch it off!
I was pondering on the noise thing myself. My FZ62 isn't silent but it's just shutter noise. The G10 sounds like they've built in a mirror noise to keep real photographers happy.I bet there's some way you can switch it off!
In reply to Tom Valentine:
There's some "front curtain" option on mine (I have not read up fully!) that reduces the noise. But I can't silence it. YMMV
There's some "front curtain" option on mine (I have not read up fully!) that reduces the noise. But I can't silence it. YMMV
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Mirrorless cameras do have shutters.
The electronic first curtain thing just means that the camera will 'wipe' the sensor row by row, acting like the beginning of a mechanical exposure. The rear curtain then follows as normal to maintain the correct timing.
Nex cameras are good for legacy lenses - they have an extremely short register from the sensor to the mount, so can accommodate almost any lens with a simple tube adapter.
Mirrorless cameras do have shutters.
The electronic first curtain thing just means that the camera will 'wipe' the sensor row by row, acting like the beginning of a mechanical exposure. The rear curtain then follows as normal to maintain the correct timing.
Nex cameras are good for legacy lenses - they have an extremely short register from the sensor to the mount, so can accommodate almost any lens with a simple tube adapter.
In reply to hamsforlegs:
Thank you! You saved me some Googling.
Just had a practice manual focusing with the kit lens and the screen, didn't seem so bad but I have not scrutinised the results. But I can probably learn to live without the EVF and spend that £200 on sweets instead
Thank you! You saved me some Googling.
Just had a practice manual focusing with the kit lens and the screen, didn't seem so bad but I have not scrutinised the results. But I can probably learn to live without the EVF and spend that £200 on sweets instead
Post edited at 15:27
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Well I could never get on with that, I might be able to help 'Ungimp' you.
Well I could never get on with that, I might be able to help 'Ungimp' you.
Manual focusing didn't seem too bad via the screen though I have not yet "pixel peeped". I am slow at it but I think that's through unfamiliarity with the gear and the fact that I was only using the kit lens which has a quick and fairly short focus throw. Actually on one test my manual focus was BETTER than the AF (AF picked up some stray hair instead of the eyes, on a 3/4 portrait, though I daresay I need to "teach" the camera - and myself - something about selective focus points).
I have ordered an adaptor off eBay, will take a couple of weeks to arrive from China, it is a well reviewed one (for the price) - RJ "brand", £15 delivered. It has a tripod mount on it. I think initially the 28-105mm f/2.8 will see the most "action" unless I am struggling for light, in which case the 58mm f/1.4 will come into play (at 50mm, the kit 16-50 has a max f/5.6 already! Fair enough given that it is a small AF zoom)
I have ordered an adaptor off eBay, will take a couple of weeks to arrive from China, it is a well reviewed one (for the price) - RJ "brand", £15 delivered. It has a tripod mount on it. I think initially the 28-105mm f/2.8 will see the most "action" unless I am struggling for light, in which case the 58mm f/1.4 will come into play (at 50mm, the kit 16-50 has a max f/5.6 already! Fair enough given that it is a small AF zoom)
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Does the Nex 3 series have focus peaking?
I've used a manual 55 on my Nex5 quite a bit with good results; the peaking gets me close, and I hit the magnify button to fine tune. Not quite quick enough for action shots, but I've got plenty of good low-light portraits that way.
Have fun!
Does the Nex 3 series have focus peaking?
I've used a manual 55 on my Nex5 quite a bit with good results; the peaking gets me close, and I hit the magnify button to fine tune. Not quite quick enough for action shots, but I've got plenty of good low-light portraits that way.
Have fun!
In reply to hamsforlegs:
Mine does (apparently! Not played with it enough yet - I think this is the first camera I've had in YEARS where I will actually need to read the manual), I don't know if all the 3 series do. But my F3 does. According to the Internet!
Mine does (apparently! Not played with it enough yet - I think this is the first camera I've had in YEARS where I will actually need to read the manual), I don't know if all the 3 series do. But my F3 does. According to the Internet!
In reply to Blue Straggler:
2.5 weeks on. I do really like this NEX F3, I have been a bit too busy to do much with it admittedly (and with some full-to-bursting hard drives, I've not put much of it onto the PC, nor "pixel peeped" at full monitor resolution)
I still have to read the manual too!
Menu navigation is not intuitive but I will get used to it.
My lens adapter thing has still not yet arrived from Hong Kong ebay seller so I can't yet comment on manual focusing.
The 16-50 lens is good though obviously I am noticing its slowness especially at the 50mm end.
The tilting screen is "neither here nor there", I have not found it that useful, would be better if it could swing out as well as (or instead of) upward, and the 13 deg downward facing angle might as well not exist (annoyingly when you flip the screen up and then back down, it goes into a 13 deg downward position instead of straight back to flat)
Fill flash is VERY good.
I think I got the right camera.
Thanks again for all the tips.
I will put some pics on flickr soon, just "first test drive" type things.
2.5 weeks on. I do really like this NEX F3, I have been a bit too busy to do much with it admittedly (and with some full-to-bursting hard drives, I've not put much of it onto the PC, nor "pixel peeped" at full monitor resolution)
I still have to read the manual too!
Menu navigation is not intuitive but I will get used to it.
My lens adapter thing has still not yet arrived from Hong Kong ebay seller so I can't yet comment on manual focusing.
The 16-50 lens is good though obviously I am noticing its slowness especially at the 50mm end.
The tilting screen is "neither here nor there", I have not found it that useful, would be better if it could swing out as well as (or instead of) upward, and the 13 deg downward facing angle might as well not exist (annoyingly when you flip the screen up and then back down, it goes into a 13 deg downward position instead of straight back to flat)
Fill flash is VERY good.
I think I got the right camera.
Thanks again for all the tips.
I will put some pics on flickr soon, just "first test drive" type things.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I hope you carry on enjoying the freedom but be warned that watching ebay for old lenses can get a bit obsessional and expensive. I've managed to collect some utter crap but some gems too and my favourite old lenses for the Sony NEX are ...
Vivitar Series 1 28-90
Vivitar Series 1 70-210
Sigma Super Wide II 28
Minolta Rokkor 50/1.4
All these were taken with those 4 ...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets/72157645148304984/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets/72157644659309128/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets/72157636165666764/
I hope you carry on enjoying the freedom but be warned that watching ebay for old lenses can get a bit obsessional and expensive. I've managed to collect some utter crap but some gems too and my favourite old lenses for the Sony NEX are ...
Vivitar Series 1 28-90
Vivitar Series 1 70-210
Sigma Super Wide II 28
Minolta Rokkor 50/1.4
All these were taken with those 4 ...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets/72157645148304984/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets/72157644659309128/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets/72157636165666764/
In reply to moffatross:
Hi, thanks for the warning. I actually think I have every manual focus lens I could sensibly ever "need" and then plenty more on top! I'll see how I get on with them on the NEX. It looks like my adaptor has finally arrived (I just got home from an overseas works trip and there is a delivery note in the post...).
I think my Vivitar Series 1 28-105 f/2.8-3.8 will probably be the most-used MF lens on the NEX. See earlier in thread (maybe in my OP? I can't remember!) to see a list of my Minolta MD/MC fit lenses.
I don't plan to go all eBay-geeky any time soon. Been there, done that, not got any real duffers
Cheers. Nice pics!
Hi, thanks for the warning. I actually think I have every manual focus lens I could sensibly ever "need" and then plenty more on top! I'll see how I get on with them on the NEX. It looks like my adaptor has finally arrived (I just got home from an overseas works trip and there is a delivery note in the post...).
I think my Vivitar Series 1 28-105 f/2.8-3.8 will probably be the most-used MF lens on the NEX. See earlier in thread (maybe in my OP? I can't remember!) to see a list of my Minolta MD/MC fit lenses.
I don't plan to go all eBay-geeky any time soon. Been there, done that, not got any real duffers
Cheers. Nice pics!
In reply to moffatross:
Ah you have a Zhongyi Lens Turbo. How are you getting on with that? How much was it and how long did it take to arrive? Good solid assuring mount? I see mixed reviews on the build quality. I am not in a big rush for such a thing (only just got the camera and as I say, a standard adaptor is hopefully waiting for me at the post office), but it's good to build some background knowledge
Ta
Ah you have a Zhongyi Lens Turbo. How are you getting on with that? How much was it and how long did it take to arrive? Good solid assuring mount? I see mixed reviews on the build quality. I am not in a big rush for such a thing (only just got the camera and as I say, a standard adaptor is hopefully waiting for me at the post office), but it's good to build some background knowledge
Ta
In reply to Blue Straggler:
YEAH it arrived, I picked it up this morning. Playtime later
> It looks like my adaptor has finally arrived (I just got home from an overseas works trip and there is a delivery note in the post...).
YEAH it arrived, I picked it up this morning. Playtime later
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Excellent ... I hope you're having fun.
Yeah, the Mitakon Lens Turbo is great (it's a version 1) and is almost always on when using the old lenses (only comes off when macro tubing). I ordered it from an amazon link not an ebay one thinking that there'd be more redress if something went wrong and tt was about £90 inc. P&P IIRC and took about 3 weeks on the slow boat from China. People complain mostly about occasional blue dot flare but I've mostly been able to avoid that by shading the lens with a sun-side hand. Quality wise, I don't think I've noticed any deterioration in sharpness across most of the image area but right out on the edges (which you wouldn't get the chance to see without a focal reducer) tends to softness and subtle light fall-off if you pixel peep. Whether that's any worse than you'd get using the same lenses with 35 mm film or FF digital, I don't know but it's a compromise worth having. My reckoning was that there's little point shooting through a big, heavy f/1.4 lens like the Rokkor 50 if you're only going to take advantage of a fraction of the glass.
Which kit lens did you get ? I quite rate the cheap and tiny 16-50 power zoom and take it with me on walking/ mountaineering trips because it's so light and makes a NEX almost as portable as a (large) compact camera.
These were taken with the 16-50, the NEX was just stuffed into a large pocket and pulled out when needed.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets/72157645495054165/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets/72157644413994604/
> YEAH it arrived, I picked it up this morning. Playtime later <
Excellent ... I hope you're having fun.
Yeah, the Mitakon Lens Turbo is great (it's a version 1) and is almost always on when using the old lenses (only comes off when macro tubing). I ordered it from an amazon link not an ebay one thinking that there'd be more redress if something went wrong and tt was about £90 inc. P&P IIRC and took about 3 weeks on the slow boat from China. People complain mostly about occasional blue dot flare but I've mostly been able to avoid that by shading the lens with a sun-side hand. Quality wise, I don't think I've noticed any deterioration in sharpness across most of the image area but right out on the edges (which you wouldn't get the chance to see without a focal reducer) tends to softness and subtle light fall-off if you pixel peep. Whether that's any worse than you'd get using the same lenses with 35 mm film or FF digital, I don't know but it's a compromise worth having. My reckoning was that there's little point shooting through a big, heavy f/1.4 lens like the Rokkor 50 if you're only going to take advantage of a fraction of the glass.
Which kit lens did you get ? I quite rate the cheap and tiny 16-50 power zoom and take it with me on walking/ mountaineering trips because it's so light and makes a NEX almost as portable as a (large) compact camera.
These were taken with the 16-50, the NEX was just stuffed into a large pocket and pulled out when needed.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets/72157645495054165/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88898381@N02/sets/72157644413994604/
In reply to moffatross:
Thanks, I literally just created this album a minute ago
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-straggler/sets/72157645085794707/
(NB these are classed as "technical test shots and training shots" rather than "mind blowing art or photojournalism"
I just have a standard adaptor, I don't know what I wrote earlier in the thread but my logic was....get the camera first. THEN a cheaper standard adaptor whilst I get used to it all and see if I like it. And then consider the Mitakon. Remember I wanted to do this all on the cheap so I wasn't going to throw a bundle of cash at it all in one go.
Anyway. I am pretty happy. I read that manual focusing without an EVF is a bit of a lost cause. I am not so sure. The Focus Peaking feature is helpful (although as I chose "red" it did make the waterfowl pics look like bloody carnage on the screen ). I must admit there were a fair few missed focus ones, but I hope that just means I need more practice, rather than needing a £200 EVF. Actually this is the point I expected to be at in 2006 when I got a Nikon D70, but the viewfinder on that one seemed to make it stupidly hard for me to manually focus!
I will save pennies for a Lens Turbo. My reasoning is similar to yours although approached from a different aspect - I just wanted to retain the right coverage (well put another way, I have been tending toward wide rather than short tele, in the last few years).
My kit lens is the 16-50mm, I got lucky on eBay. I knew I wanted the F3 with a 16-50, and one came up. Yes it is like a big compact for big pockets.
Have you got a decent case to carry it in? That may be my next mission!
Thanks, I literally just created this album a minute ago
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-straggler/sets/72157645085794707/
(NB these are classed as "technical test shots and training shots" rather than "mind blowing art or photojournalism"
I just have a standard adaptor, I don't know what I wrote earlier in the thread but my logic was....get the camera first. THEN a cheaper standard adaptor whilst I get used to it all and see if I like it. And then consider the Mitakon. Remember I wanted to do this all on the cheap so I wasn't going to throw a bundle of cash at it all in one go.
Anyway. I am pretty happy. I read that manual focusing without an EVF is a bit of a lost cause. I am not so sure. The Focus Peaking feature is helpful (although as I chose "red" it did make the waterfowl pics look like bloody carnage on the screen ). I must admit there were a fair few missed focus ones, but I hope that just means I need more practice, rather than needing a £200 EVF. Actually this is the point I expected to be at in 2006 when I got a Nikon D70, but the viewfinder on that one seemed to make it stupidly hard for me to manually focus!
I will save pennies for a Lens Turbo. My reasoning is similar to yours although approached from a different aspect - I just wanted to retain the right coverage (well put another way, I have been tending toward wide rather than short tele, in the last few years).
My kit lens is the 16-50mm, I got lucky on eBay. I knew I wanted the F3 with a 16-50, and one came up. Yes it is like a big compact for big pockets.
Have you got a decent case to carry it in? That may be my next mission!
Post edited at 23:17
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Result on the 16-50 What lens did you use for the flickr pix ? Trying to manual focus on erratically moving things is tough so your choice of subject isn't what I'd choose :P I do like the two cygnets picture though.
With focus peaking (I use red too), I've found it's best to magnify the view and vary the focus point back and forth a little taking several shots so one of them turns out right. However, my NEX is a 7 (I bought a very second hand body from ebay) and I know that focussing is easier using peaking and live view magnify through its EVF.
As my camera was well-used when I got it and I'm not trying to keep it looking pretty, I don't bother with a case and quite literally it goes straight into a pocket. The benefit of a large sensor mirrorless is that it's so quick and easy to clean with methanol and a swab that sensor dust becomes a non-issue. I can't say the same for my Canon S110 which is an unserviceable dust magnet and guess that most DSLR designs are a bit more of a PITA to clean too.
Result on the 16-50 What lens did you use for the flickr pix ? Trying to manual focus on erratically moving things is tough so your choice of subject isn't what I'd choose :P I do like the two cygnets picture though.
With focus peaking (I use red too), I've found it's best to magnify the view and vary the focus point back and forth a little taking several shots so one of them turns out right. However, my NEX is a 7 (I bought a very second hand body from ebay) and I know that focussing is easier using peaking and live view magnify through its EVF.
As my camera was well-used when I got it and I'm not trying to keep it looking pretty, I don't bother with a case and quite literally it goes straight into a pocket. The benefit of a large sensor mirrorless is that it's so quick and easy to clean with methanol and a swab that sensor dust becomes a non-issue. I can't say the same for my Canon S110 which is an unserviceable dust magnet and guess that most DSLR designs are a bit more of a PITA to clean too.
In reply to moffatross:
Cheers. It was the Minolta Rokkor PF 135mm f/2.8, an old favourite. Yes I went for "challenging" subjects immediately (not really a choice, I was just walking along the canal towpath toward the climbing wall and my old friends the swans were right there!)
I have generally gone sans case with cameras, but I thought something for when I am out with the 16-50 and using it as a point and click, might be nice. I want to take it climbing etc.
I thought these were "self cleaning" sensors? Or are you talking about BIG dust?
Today we go macro, an extension tube and a Centon 24mm f/2.8 that I bought on impulse (for the 35mm Minoltas - but I've not put any new film in for a while.....)
Cheers. It was the Minolta Rokkor PF 135mm f/2.8, an old favourite. Yes I went for "challenging" subjects immediately (not really a choice, I was just walking along the canal towpath toward the climbing wall and my old friends the swans were right there!)
I have generally gone sans case with cameras, but I thought something for when I am out with the 16-50 and using it as a point and click, might be nice. I want to take it climbing etc.
I thought these were "self cleaning" sensors? Or are you talking about BIG dust?
Today we go macro, an extension tube and a Centon 24mm f/2.8 that I bought on impulse (for the 35mm Minoltas - but I've not put any new film in for a while.....)
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I think the cleaning routine just tries to shake off any loose crap and that's best used in combination with a blower. In my experience, only methanol and a swab can remove say a spot of sticky pollen or sneeze-juice that attached itself when changing lenses outside or a moisture/condensation spot from the camera rapidly cooling to sub-zero temperature after it's been in a damp, warmish backpack or pocket. Except using very small apertures for images with plain backgrounds, even they'd be unnoticeable but what I meant was that although you'd maybe just have to live with it on a fixed lens compact or a DSLR with more difficult access to the sensor, it's quite easy to deal with on a mirrorless.
I think the cleaning routine just tries to shake off any loose crap and that's best used in combination with a blower. In my experience, only methanol and a swab can remove say a spot of sticky pollen or sneeze-juice that attached itself when changing lenses outside or a moisture/condensation spot from the camera rapidly cooling to sub-zero temperature after it's been in a damp, warmish backpack or pocket. Except using very small apertures for images with plain backgrounds, even they'd be unnoticeable but what I meant was that although you'd maybe just have to live with it on a fixed lens compact or a DSLR with more difficult access to the sensor, it's quite easy to deal with on a mirrorless.
In reply to moffatross:
Yeah I get you, it does look like nice easy access with good visibility.
Thanks
Yeah I get you, it does look like nice easy access with good visibility.
Thanks
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