UKC

Ok, question about applying to say you have no TV license. I lived in a rented flat. I have a TV, but all I watch on it are DVD's. I have no internet connection (typing this at the gf's). So I do not watch broadcast TV programmes.

However, coming out the wall at the back of my TV are two cables; one is for a Sky dish that I don't have a box for, the other one looks like it goes out of my flat up to the roof, so could well be an aerial cable. However, there's no connector on the end, it's just a single bare copper wire. My concern is that if I get an inspection and it's some fascist nerd, can he claim that I could theoretically stick a connector on it and maybe get a signal? I'm loathe to pay for a license cos I genuinely don't watch TV, but equally don't want to get landed with a £1000 fine.

Anyone had experience in this situation?

In reply to Taurig:

I think the wording is You need a license if you have equipment capable of receiving tv you need a license (even if its not connected to an arial)

this may have changed since tv can be viewed online

In reply to balmybaldwin:

We had an old analogue tv which we used for daughters cartoons on DVD or VHS and no digi box so worked around this. We explained it to tv licensing several years ago and stopped receiving the 'reminders'.

In reply to Taurig:

1 - A reminder of the law

The law states that you need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they're being shown on TV. This includes TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorders.

You don't need a licence if you don't use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV - for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD.

2 - Letting us know you don’t need a TV Licence

Once you are sure you will not watch or record television programmes as they’re being shown on TV, using any device, then please let us know. This helps us to keep our database up to date and means you won't receive the letters we send to unlicensed addresses.

In most cases you just need to complete the online declaration form.
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/no-licence-needed/index.app


http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/how-to-tell-us-yo...


Someone knocking at your door about a 'license inspection' has no right of entry. Do not let them in.

In reply to Taurig:

I looked into this when I decided to cancel Sky and got rid of the TV license. Take the cables out and "de-tune" your TV then fill out the declaration form on the TV Licensing website.

That was over year ago and haven't had any pestering letters or knocks on my door from them yet.

In reply to Taurig:

We have a TV and an aerial. We no longer watch broadcast TV. We therefore do not need a TV licence.
I've put the telly on the other side of the room to the aerial cable (it just sticks out of the wall, no socket.) I've tied the aerial wire into a neat bundle with a cable-tie and covered the connector on the end with a piece of heat shrink.

So in the unlikely event a TVL inspector goes off and gets a warrant after being denied entry to my property, and they then come back and gather evidence, and then decide to prosecute. they are going to have a very hard time convincing a magistrate that we watch broadcast TV. But as I understand it, if you take this course of action it ultimately comes down to the decision of the magistrate (or jury if you so escalate it.)

I don't want to cut the cable in case of a need to receive broadcasts during a civil emergency, and because it would be one more thing to make right when we put the house on the market.

You can fill in the link given by Interdit - going off a sample of two people, an inspector has then gone to visit one to confirm the information given, and in their case the inspector didn't try and trick them into giving evidence for a conviction. Given what I have read about them elsewhere they are not coming in to my house, period.

In reply to Taurig:

I've not had a TV licence for about a decade. You'll be absolutely fine, as interdit says you aren't allowed to watch TV as it's being broadcast. If you don't do that, you aren't breaking the law.

I'd advise against refusing entry, I know the abusive, threatening letters from TVL get peoples backs up but don't rise to it. It takes less than two minutes, explain you don't watch TV, show them your TV and how it's not connected to your Ariel and then they'll leave. Or...deny them entry, have a TV licencing van come park outside your house, get red letters with threats of prison through your door, more visits, a court order saying they can come in and look...etc. etc. I've got better things to do and the guy that comes round is just doing a job, same as everything in life, if your a dick to people they'll make your life a misery, if your polite and show them your not watching TV they'll be on their way and you'll not hear from them again.

In reply to Taurig:

I get letters every couple of months from the ba$tards. I called them straight after I moved to tell them I have no TV. Didn't put them off. The last 3 or 4 letters I bothered to read have said the next contact will be a summons to court. Aye right.

In reply to Sharp:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2455509/1-000-month-bonus-BBCs-TV-l...

Before you judge someone to harshly for sending TV licence inspectors packing, be aware that they may be paid a bonus for getting you in to court, and it's pot luck if the inspector you get is a dick or not. There are stories of an inspector asking to just plug the aerial in to see if it works, then recording that as evidence for a court case etc.


I've already godwined with the Daily Mail link, so I'll let this one drop...

In reply to Sharp:


Do you happen to work for Crappita by any chance? Guilty till proven innocent?

Sod them they can go pay for a court order before I let them into my house.

>they'll make your life a misery
Charming good ol' Aunty

In reply to wintertree:

Wasn't aware of that, I think I'd still let them in though, I think if all that came out in the press last year they'd be foolish to pick on someone who wasn't clearly an easy target, regardless of how much of a dick they are. I find it hard to think of a way they'd be able to present evidence to court in my circumstances and certainly not in yours, "covered the connector on the end with a piece of heat shrink"...nice!

In reply to Taurig:

There are some very interesting videos on youtube about people denying entry to Capita staff who come to 'inspect' their property.

Have a look...

Just ignore all the letters. My experience is that calling up, being polite and filling in forms had no effect or made things worse.

When I called up the guy made veiled threats and said they would arrange an inspection visit and even tried to suggest that I had to let them in. All completely untrue so was quite enjoyable putting him straight. Had someone knocking on my door shortly after - politely refused entry and explained my situation again.

Then received a few fake calls offering prizes if I would complete a survey on my telly viewing habits. All very transparent.

After that I just chucked 5 years of letters in the recycling.

In reply to mudmonkey5:

This is about right:

youtube.com/watch?v=EqG4ysu2ksU&

All the more appropriate given Rik Mayall's untimely demise.

In reply to mudmonkey5:

Calling up hasn't stopped them knocking on my door every couple of months. I just have fun with them now. They won't be coming in for a nose.

I worked out I'd paid maybe 3k in licence fees over the years, so if they're gonna be abusive, threatening misleading and bare-faced lie - I'm gonna let them waste every penny I've ever paid them trying to chase me.

In reply to Taurig:

I just filled in one form online, had a letter back saying if my circumstances change and I buy a TV then I need to buy a TV licence. Not heard anything since.

In reply to mudmonkey5:


I hope you played along..:

"How many hours of TV a week do you watch sir...5-10? 11-20? 25+"
"None".

In reply to Taurig:

Imagine you are the TV licensing bloke and you get these two!

youtube.com/watch?v=w_nRsnd2-Lo&

In reply to Taurig:

You don't have to do anything, nor are you obliged to let them in or answer any questions about the use.

So long as you are not using the TV to watch or record programmes the onus is on them to prove otherwise, which obviously they can't. So if they contact you, ignore them.

We don't live in a Police State and to me some of the "bullying/intimidation" tactics employed by the Licencing Authority is the thin end of the wedge. Don't give into it.

In reply to woolsack:



They sound like a tedious pair, but I have to admit they are VERY good!
Not sure what an "arable man" is, mind you...

In reply to Blue Straggler:



Knobbers.

In reply to Kipper:

Well, that as well

In reply to Taurig:

I went online filled out the form that states I do not need a tv licence as I do not watch live tv and I recieved an e Mail stating that will not contacted for 2 years and that's was 3 months ago.
I've heard nothing since.
If any one does turn up at my door I will very politely tell them to f@ck right off.

Neil

In reply to Trangia:




This ^

In reply to Taurig:

This is how many reminders I've had from them in a year and a couple months: http://imgur.com/yzSwcqL

I have a TV but no aerial (I use it for ps3 only) but have 2x desktops that I use for downloaded stuff, though I don't watch anything as it's broadcast. Because I have more than one computer (not including laptops either) the TV people told me they needed to 'inspect' my setups and I told them no way, so they keep sending letters.

They've sent people round to my place twice now, but you can't get to my front door without passing through a couple of other doors and they always call in the middle of the working day so I've never actually seen them. As far as I'm aware you don't have to let them into your property anyway, they won't take you to court unless you admit receiving broadcast TV or one of their tv signal van things parks outside and records you streaming live tv.

tl;dr just ignore them, there's nothing they can do. You don't have to submit to an inspection.

In reply to Taurig:

I know someone who had a shop and he kept getting letters, at first he replied explaining the situation but he still got letters so after a bit he just binned them. Same for us when we used my Mum's house for holidays after she died. The letters kept coming, at first I replied explaining that as she was dead she was unable to watch even the BBC but it made no difference they just kept sending them.

Now we do have a telly and pay the license even though we only watch it a few days per year, which proves their terror tactics work to some extent.

In reply to Sharp:
I agree with your recommendation. having not had a tv licence for 10 years it was the strategy I adopted and I never had any issues.

The people who had issues just created problems for themselves by being abusive or refusing to answer or help with reasonable questions.

I always found the licence people easy to deal with.

In reply to Removed User:


I stopped watching telly in 2011. I simply cancelled my Direct Debit. Strictly they owe me about £60 but I was lazy and decadent back then and never chased it up.

I had a load of letters like you; I deliberately said nothing as I wanted to experience the mild entertainment of seeing the letters "escalate" and then reset back to the mildest one for the next cycle, but after a while I bored of that (and started getting angry because the wording of the "scary" letters is indeed liable to scare the less savvy, who are likely to be more vulnerable and fearful and probably more skint).

Filling in a single online form stopped it all, about two and a half years ago.

In reply to Blue Straggler:


You might be a bit angrier if you had gone through the experience of attempting to get them to return it to you...

In reply to Blue Straggler:


It's probably just as well for your general peace and wellbeing that you didn't chase it up.

In reply to neilh:

People seem to have different experiences. I have previously notified them of no TV as they requested but it didn't seem to have much effect beyond starting a sequence of letters explaining they needed to come and check I was telling the truth. Now I simply ignore them completely. I suspect how likely they are to leave you alone is post-code related.

In reply to Taurig:

I've tried both tactics, ignoring any and all the letters they send for years and filling in the proper forms (actually my partner did that in exasperation). Filling in the declaration mostly stops the threats but since I wasn't reading them anyway it's made no real difference. Wrap the wire in a bit of tape then forget about it.

I'm not sure it's true, I hope it is but anyway the story goes that one time they tried to inspect on the Isle of Man they were stopped with their van at the dock and put on the next boat home. Working without a work permit!

jk

In reply to Taurig:

We didn't have a TV for 25 years (brilliant), informed them but they soon reverted to sending letters, at first we replied but it seemed to make no difference to the computer that kept churning them out on a monthly basis.

So we ignored them, the letters became more and more threatening and we waited for 25 years hoping to have a visit - so we could at least tell them to eff off, but nobody ever visited (or was seen to visit, our neighbours didn't miss much).

Eventually told us we were being taken to court blah, blah etc. but still nothing. Eventually we moved house, bought a TV and licence. Don't worry about it and bin the threatening letters, perhaps you will be lucky enough to see someone!

In reply to jonny taylor:


That had been my assumption at the time but I mentioned it here a while back and a few people piped up with stories about doing the online form the day they stopped needing a licence, and having an accurately calculated refund deposited in their account within a day!

For the record, I do own a television. It is about 30 years old, it has one SCART socket, and I have never had a digital receiver. Analogue broadcasting was switched off in my reception area in September 2011. I am not anti-television at all, but I decided to go a month or so without, to see if I felt I was missing out. I didn't

I watch films and box sets on DVD and VHS. Very old fashioned I know.

I would welcome them in for a search. They would take one look, shrug, and tick the appropriate box.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Lucky you, they told me that I need to prove to them that I'm not streaming anything and they would need to come inspect my equipment! (ho ho ho).

I don't know what all the fuss is about tbh, there's rarely anything decent on bbc tv and it's usually a re-broadcast so it's available online to download anyway. I torrent 100% of the things I watch.

In reply to Taurig:

TV Licensing people are scum. You do not need a TV License unless you are watching or recording TV as it is being broadcast - the medium (over the air/over the internet) doesn't matter. Yes it's an odd law (it's clearly out of date having been written many years before Iplayer was on the cards) but that's the law as it is.

The fact that there is so much confusion on the issue is a result of the deceptive and manipulative practices that the TV License people use to extract money from people.

Cancel your license, ignore the letters and don't give them any information (they may write and ask for your details so they can 'properly record the situation', but you don't have to give them anything).

Definitely don't let them in, they have no more powers of entry than a Tescos trolley boy and a court order is virtually impossible for them to obtain (assuming you are genuinely not watching broadcast TV).

What you can also do is write to them and retract the implied right of access that they use to cross your property and approach your door. This is basically an exemption to trespassing law that provides any person with an implied permission to come on to your property to knock on the door or make deliveries etc. It's implied because everybody has it automatically by default, but it can be withdrawn if you choose. Use a form letter off the internet and send it to them and the visits will stop.

Bafflingly, when I did that they also stopped sending me any letters too.

In reply to mullermn:


Not in my experience.

You're right about the outdated law though. If it doesn't change soon an entire generation of people will assume iPlayer content is paid for by fairy farts.

In reply to JMGLondon:
Well I should clarify, I meant the organisation is scummy. I've not really interacted with any of the individuals.

Given that it is atleast 30% an extortion racket I do wonder how nice a person you can be and still want to work there though.


One other thing - over the 5 years I've not had a TV License I have periodically gone looking for a way to donate money to the BBC to contribute towards their programme making, which I consider to be excellent. I only watch it very occasionally (retrospectively, on Iplayer) but I would happily contribute towards it if I could do so without endorsing Crapita and their shakedown racket.

I've never been able to find a way to do this though, does anyone know any different?

In reply to mullermn:

I suspect come Charter renewal in a couple of years some sort of service subscription model will be proposed to parliament.

Personally I think £12 per month isn't bad.

In reply to MG:

People without tv's do generally ( and I see it in most the posts here)get on their high horse about it. I think its something about " how dare they keep pestering me"

And I speak as somebody who deliberately did not own one for 10 years.

I reckon the experience is down to being chilled out about filling in forms etc and not getting on one's high horse.

If a tv licence person came to my house. I would be quite relaxed about letting them in and proving it...no skin of my nose for doing that.

In reply to neilh:
"get on there high horse" ???

Why do you think that people have any sort of obligation to prove that they do not consume a service that they do not want and have a low opinion of? Do you think you should be obliged to prove to a train company that you did NOT catch a train between Brighton and London last week? Or to follow the TV theme, do you think that Sky should have the right to demand that you pay them an amount just because they think you might own a TV? After all, why should the BBC be the only ones allowed to force their product on you, whether you want it or not?

This idea of the burden of proof being reversed from the standard is nonsense. If the BBC want to sell their product, let them make it worth buying, and also provide the means to monitor its release. Don't just assume that :

a) everyone has a TV
b) if they have a TV, they passionately want to watch BBC
c) the BBC has the right to demand money with menaces (in fact uniquely for debts, with threats of imprisonment), without asking if you want their offering

The TV licence is a complete anachronism, the cart before the horse, heavy handed compulsion arguments to try to justify it are nonsense. As others have pointed out, completely ineffective nonsense that requires them to deliberately mislead with regard to the actual legal position, that they have no right to enter your house or interrogate you as to your entertainment choices without a court order - which they will get.

In reply to neilh:


They called on me too and I, politely, told them they couldn't come in or collect my name and other details. They left without fuss (although the letters kept coming). I don't think this is getting on my high horse, rather objecting to threatening letters and attempts at intrusive behaviour when I have done nothing wrong.

In reply to Taurig:

Whilst we are on the subject of demanding money with heavy handed threatening tactics, who has had the Performing Rights Society on their case at work over music on the radio? There's another bunch of b***ards

I'd pay them to take the bloody radio away!

In reply to MG:

Is there an internet forum in existence that has as many non TV watches/owners as UKC?

I quite like my telly and sometimes find good stuff to watch on it (last week was the IOM TT on ITV4 every night) Sure, I could probably have found it online and watched it in my study or on the ipad, but to save £12 a month? fck that

To those that say they only watch DVDs...how much does a DVD cost? and how many times do you watch it?

Bonkers, the lot of you

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:


Yes but if you watch a DVD you can choose what you want to watch from a much bigger selection of stuff that may not be on TV at the time (or may never be on TV).

I ended up giving up on TV because there was just so much shite on it yet somehow I'd end up putting it on and watching the least worst thing I could find.

I still watch DVDs (from LoveFilm mostly) and I watch the odd climbing thing (not live though!).

In reply to MeMeMe:

But hang on a sec....I don't see much difference. You choose to pick a DVD from a vast selection of dross from Lovefilm and pay for it (and hope it's good)

I do very similar by whizzing through the dross with my remote control to find something watchable. If I don't I turn it off.

Lovefilm maybe cheaper but is it free?

In reply to neilh:


Any antipathy on my part results from the deliberately misleading and menacing form of the letters.

jk

In reply to Taurig:

I genuinely don't watch live TV.
When I moved in I wrote them a letter, they said 'Thanks for letting us know' and that's that. I get a letter every year or so asking us to let them know if the situation has changed. It hasn't.
No hassle, no problem. If someone wants to check it out, I'll let them. I think the transmitters have changed to digital since I used my TV for live broadcast, so I don't think it's possible for me to receive any more.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:



Between 50p and (rarely) ~£4

I could probably recoup about 25% of the outlay by selling/trading them back at CEX. I tend to loan/give the good ones to friends. Anything that I pay more than £1 for will tend to be something I've been meaning to watch for YEARS, or something that I wanted to see at the cinema in the last two years or so, but missed (so I can write off the cost of a cinema trip against the cost of the DVD), or a genuine favourite that I know I will enjoy repeat viewings of. I do have a bit of a completist OCD regarding a particular actor, but I am not stretching to more than about £4 for any of their films on DVD...

It is a financial model that works well for me.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:


But not everyone considers that to be good - as in interesting - tv. Like football, it would bore the arse off me and many others.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:


Well the selection of DVDs that I could get hold of (via love film or wherever) is much bigger than what happens to be on TV. And if there's nothing I want to see I don't have to pay anything (you've already invested 140 quid or whatever it is for your TV licence).


I found I was more likely to find a DVD I wanted to watch than to find anything on TV I wanted to watch. You may have the opposite situation.


Sort of. I get it (actually got it, I think this is changing since they got bought over) free with something else. But cheaper is better than not cheaper no? I don't mind paying for something that works for me.

In reply to MG:

Seems very likely.

I didn't have a TV for years, and as with you the (unfriendly but not particularly threatening) letters went on for years too.

Someone did finally turn up and knock on the door just as I'd moved out of the flat. (Unfurnished flat with not a stick of furniture left in it, I was just giving it a quick clean before taking the keys back.)

I let him in straight away and said "See, no telly." The look of confusion on his face was a little victory.

In reply to MeMeMe:

I have a freeview PVR thingy and troll through the listings every once in a while to pick out some things I'd like it to record. (It's very good at recording a whole series of programmes if you point it at the first one.)

Rarely watch anything much live, there's always plenty recorded on the hard disk and it's easy to fast-forward through the adverts.

I don't begrudge paying the licence fee at all & regard it as an optional fee for Radio 4 and Radio 6 Music (which are worth every penny) with the odd bit of telly thrown in.

In reply to Simon4:

You just have a different view of things to me. I find in life that if
I treat these organisations with respect and help them out, it saves alot of hassle.I have never had any issues following this line.

Your political points about it being nonsense I just do not accept.When all said and done they are entitled by law to do it.

In reply to wintertree:

Having your cake and eating it? I'm sure civil emergency broadcasts will go to the radio too.

In reply to Ava Adore:

Only by a very strange definition. It was the minor reason for keeping it, the major one is the hassle of replacing it when we sell the house. As I noted before it's just cemented through the wall chopping it will only incur future expense.


So it won't do any harm to have something that functions reasonably well as an FM antenna kicking about then. I'm pretty sure that if Zombie day comes they'll not be going after people for TV licence violation. Actually, come to think of it, it's Capita so they probably will. Not that I expect modern terrestrial digital broadcasting to last very long in a major civil emergency.

In reply to interdit:

Gotta love UKC

Someone gives a complete, clear, helpful and accurate answer at reply #3... and we still debate the arse off it for another 50+ posts!

In reply to Taurig:

Lots of fun & some good reliable info at: http://www.bbctvlicence.com/2010%20letters.htm