/ Wild Country Rockcentrics - nuts or cams?

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Serena Lambre on 11 Jun 2014

Perhaps someone could explain something to me.
While reading about the Wild Country Rockcentric nuts on one retailer's website, I saw this sentence:

"One nut can provide four placement modes ... two of these [are] 'camming style placements.'"

Another retialer described the Rockcentrics as giving, "bomber 'camming' placements in parallel cracks."

Thinking that I had missed something in my fledgling attempts to understand cams, I tried to find a definition of 'camming' or 'cams' that didn't involve a suitcase of pirated DVDs.

The vast majority of definitions I found of 'camming' on climbing related sites all said the same thing: 'active' protection, where as nuts were always defined as 'passive' protection. How can one thing be both?
All the definitions I found of 'camming' and 'cams' also mentioned moving parts, of which the Rockcentrics have none.

So - my question is this - were Wild Country or the retailers doing what Kellogg's did when they claimed that a couple of Shredded Wheat 'could' give you a healthy heart, or is there a truth in this statement that I just don't understand?


HosteDenis on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Serena Lambre:
You can have the nut make a camming moment by placing it like this for example:

https://www.google.be/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=n_F0_gABssBYzM...

While the principle does work with more or less regular nuts, it works better (and you'll find more info if you'll google these) with tricams.
Post edited at 02:52
climbwhenready - on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Serena Lambre:

Camming is an engineering term, and in terms of climbing it basically means that the geometry is such that a load makes the piece try to expand in a placement. Various types of pro apart from "spring-loaded camming devices" will do this. Given this, "active" and "passive" oversimplifies pro quite a bit.

Note that cams hold because of the geometry of the lobes, not by superpowered springs - the springs provide initiating friction, and range, but like all pro the principle is providing a load to a shaped piece of metal that then jams into the placement.
PaulTanton - on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Serena Lambre:

The sound of jangling hexes usually precedes an epic. Never use them, steer clear of them
Cardi - on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Serena Lambre:

Still think Torque nuts are better. There is a lot of snobbery against hexes. I always carry my Torque nuts on routes E1 and below, particularly in Pembroke or mountain multipitch. and E2 if there's a decent crack. I often find many placements where a cam doesn't provide the same security.
top cat - on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Cardi:
> (In reply to Serena Lambre)
>
> Still think Torque nuts are better. There is a lot of snobbery against hexes. I always carry my Torque nuts on routes E1 and below, particularly in Pembroke or mountain multipitch. and E2 if there's a decent crack. I often find many placements where a cam doesn't provide the same security.

Correct.
Serena Lambre on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

Thank you for your explanation, climbwhenready. That does help.
But you kept saying "pro" and I kept thinking there was a word missing there. Pro ... gear, perhaps?

Or is pro an acronym?
nclarey - on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Serena Lambre:

Pro is short for "protection".
Serena Lambre on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to HosteDenis:

Thanks for that, HosteDenis. I am rather partial to a good tricam.

In the advert for the Rockcentrics nuts it said that they were a good stepping stone for people who were not confident in placing cams, which is me to a T. Regular cams totally stress me out, whereas tricams make perfect sense to me. Strange, huh?

I'm just wondering if I can get away with a rack of nuts, tricams and rockcentrics and not bother with moving cams at all.
Serena Lambre on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to nclarey:

Aaaaaaaaaaaah. I see!
Thanks, nclarey.
climbwhenready - on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Serena Lambre:

I don't even use the term in speech, but it's quicker to type on an iphone :)
Serena Lambre on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Cardi:

Thanks, Cardi. Good to know.
Yeah, looking at the shape of them I can remember many, many times when a nut wouldn't quite hold and I'm thinking, 'Ooooh, now if I'd only had one of those.'

I've been trad climbing for a year now and I've never even help a hex in my hand, much less tried one on the rock. Don't know how this whole shape has passed me by. It looks so damn versatile!
nclarey - on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Serena Lambre:

You can get away with using static protection for as long as you fancy - it just takes longer to place well than a cam. Parallel sided cracks are a good example of something that you will certainly come across when climbing that cams are made for, and you will struggle to place anything else in them without a lot of faff.

Get used to placing them - they're a valuable part of your climbing rack - but if you don't want to spend the money you can probably survive on static gear for quite some time. Most of the guys I climb with only own 3 cams because a) they're expensive and b) my climbing partners are cheapskates.
Serena Lambre on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to nclarey:
Ha ha. Yes, they are pricey.

When I lead I usually have someone 2nd and inspect my gear placements, as I still lack any confidence in the whole thing.

9 times out of 10 my nut placements are good but my cam placements are not, which is ironic, as cams are supposed to be so quick and easy to place.

More often than not there was apparently a bomber placement a few cm away from my rubbish one, but I didn't spot it.

The stress about placing the gear correctly is starting to detract from the pleasure of climbing, which is a great shame. So I wonder if some hexcentrics (or whatever the correct term is) might help me out.
Post edited at 10:21
Blue Straggler - on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Serena Lambre:

> Thanks for that, HosteDenis. I am rather partial to a good tricam.

> tricams make perfect sense to me.

This will mark you out as an eccentric maverick and all your seconds will hate you forever! ;-)

Tricams are great. But learn to love cams (SLCDs) too. I was the same as you with them, for a while
Serena Lambre on 11 Jun 2014
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Oh no. Not what I wanted to hear, Blue Straggler.
I'm an eccentric maverick in every other aspect of my life and I was rather hoping that when it came to climbing I could possibly just be a little bit normal.

(Still going to be ordering a set of CAMP tri-cams as soon as I get my first pay check though! Muahahaha.)
Blue Straggler - on 12 Jun 2014
In reply to Serena Lambre:

I'm more maverick because mine are on wire and made by a one-man operation in Czech Republic, not UIAA rated :-)
StuDoig - on 12 Jun 2014
In reply to Serena Lambre:

Hi Serena,
your not alone in struggling with cam placements - lots of people are terrible at placing / assessing cams properly, but most of them are oblivious to the fact so your actually ahead there! Easy to place is double edged, they are also extremely easy to place badly and give a false sense of security.

When I first started using them I got a friend who's done a fair bit of aid climbing using micro cams where he had to get the placements 100% right to tear apart my attempts to place cams. I had though my placements were fine......

I am a big tri-cam fan as well - cracking bits of kit, though folk not familiar with them will curse you as they'll struggle to get them out!

Cheers,

Stuart
ads.ukclimbing.com
nutstory - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Jiri Rybak (Viamont)...?

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