UKC

Hi,

I recently ordered a pack of BD Quickwire quickdraws so we can finally head for some sport climbing. I do not have many friends who climb outdoors so I can't try before buying or get some advice.

Hence, the set I bought was supposed to be of 6 x 12cm and 4 x 18cm quickdraws. However, First Ascent ran out of 12cm draws and offered me 10 x 18cm quickdraws instead.

I am mostly interested in sport climbing at the moment and I have no plans to do any trad climbing or winter climbing yet (but in half a decade, I would like to see myself climbing in Alps or in winter). Is there any danger in using 10x18cm quickdraws for sport climbing?

Thanks for advice!

In reply to PPP:

You'll fall 6cm (2.5") further!!!!

Seriously I can't see any real problems, the main reason for shorter quickdraws on sport is that you don't need as much flexibility to help stop gear lifting out and the routes tend to be straighter so you don't need to extend gear to ease rope drag.It's not going to be a problem the other way round.

In reply to PPP:

This probably explains better

http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3999

Hi,

It all boils down to reducing drag when climbing. I think having few longer draws in the rack it's not a bad idea at all. In fact, when projecting, I've seen more than one climber using longer draws only, or chains of draws... Obviously there is no inherent danger in using 18 cm long draws for sport climbing. 10x18 cm does sound a bit too many for that size, to be honest. I do think the set you had in mind (6x12 and 4x18) was a more balanced one. In fact, I would probably add 2x22

On a side note, think carefully about what you buy. Carabiners are carabiners, but you will have noticed the range nowadays is immense. You said you're planning on doing some trad and winter climbing in the future. The draws you buy now will definitely accompany you to the Alps in half a decade. Unless you change your mind, of course. Those who can afford it normally have different racks for different activities. Otherwise you'll find that for anything other than sport climbing, longer and lighter draws are ever more useful. All of my sport climbing draws are 12 cm long thick dyneema or good-old-nylon draws. Everything else is thin dyneema 20 cm or longer. I also have a bunch of extendable sling draws.

Hope this helps,

Ciao!

Nic

In reply to PPP:
I prefer long draws for sport. My sport climbing rack is almost all 18cm quickdraws, with a few short (12cm) draws for the occasional first bolt or bolt above a ledge, and a fair number of long 25cm draws for extending clips or reducing drag. Generally with long draws you end up pulling up less rope and you get less drag. This is all a bit personal preference, though, I have had one partner refuse to take my draws on a route as being off-puttingly long. I personally think there is no point at all in using a majority of stubby 12cm sport draws unless you really like rope drag.

In reply to PPP:

I never saw myself climbing in the Alps or winter when I started rock climbing.

I was winter climbing after 2 years and in the Alps after 4!

In reply to PPP:

Your QD lengths are fine, I would buy the same length. I wouldn't worry about having anything longer either - generally if you need to extend a placement it'll be by double, triple or quadruple the draw length, not 5cm, in which case slings will give you that flexibility.

In reply to PPP:

You'll be absolutely fine. Don't worry about it at all.

The difference between 12 and 18 cms draws is basically psychological. You can sometimes find packs of thicker nylon 10 or 12 cm long slings for very little, so perhaps treat yourself to five in the future, but really having all 18 cms ones won't really make any real difference.

Get out, use them and have fun!

In reply to Hat Dude:


I think that should 12cm

In reply to David Coley:


How do you work that out then?

In reply to Hat Dude:

Double the distance. And there will be some rope stretch, too

In reply to Hat Dude:

12cm - Got me scratching my head as well.

In reply to Removed UserZebdi:

Where the rope exits the lower qd karabiner it is 6cm lower than a 12cm one, so you will end up falling only 6cm further.

Rope stretch is rope stretch and it will be the same irrespective, due to the fact that the rope comes out of the qd karabiner wherever it is.

In fact if you wanted to be really precise, then you'd actually have less rope stretch due to there being 6cm less rope being fed out. So you would fall even less.

In reply to PPP:

Thanks everyone for advice! It was a little bit stressful to decide as I will be sharing them with my climbing partner. I'll get some slings/dogbones if I need to extend them or I'll just use some quickdraws connected to each other.

In reply to Removed User:
Let's see. Clip the rope into a biner and put some weight on it. Hold the rope in that position with your hand and lower the quickdraw. See how much of the rope is above the biner. If the biner is now 6cm lower, then there should be 12cm of the rope above it. I can't explain it any better...

In reply to Removed User:


No, it would be 12cm if you were above the draw, and no change if you were below it. Remember you fall twice the distance from your last gear, so if that distance is 6cm bigger then the fall distance is 12cm bigger. Not that it really matters in this scenario.


The quickdraw makes no difference whatsoever to the amount of rope out if you're above the draw.

To the OP: You'll be fine with 18cm draws and they'll be better for trad too if you ever want to do any.

In reply to Removed User:


The point about which you're falling is already 6cm lower than from the 'shorter-draw' scenario. There is therefore already 6cm more rope through the draw when you fall, therefore the distance you fall is 2 x 6 = 12cm further.

In reply to PPP:

I think it really doesn't matter.
I prefer short to medium range of quickdraws. So anything from 12 to let say - 18 cm is fine. Those few centimeters is, as TobyA said - more of a psychological difference. So if You want to feel a little bit more secure you can get yourself like 2 or 3 shorter ones for a first or roof clip.
Also having a little bit longer will slightly reduce rope drag. But the difference will be negligible.

bottom line:
Don't worry, use them and climb safe.

In reply to Hat Dude:

As the others have said: if your waist was at the bolt you would fall the twice the length of the draw. Therefore if the draw is 6cm longer, you travel 12cm more. Does that make sense? (not that an extra 6cm matters)

In reply to David Coley:


As the actress said to the bishop.

In reply to David Coley:

I should use my brain before the keyboard not the other way around.

Probably got confused as I'm a chicken that never pushes it and risks falling off unless the runner is above my head

In reply to PPP:

There are some good boys working in First Ascent. They sent me 10 firewire quickdraws with 5 different length spare dogbones if I need to change the length.

Thanks everyone for help again!

In reply to PPP:


You know this, of course, but...

If you're connecting quickdraws together, clip the second quickdraw into the open sling of the first one, not into the karabiner. Two karabiners connected together can twist and unclip.

(Cue twenty people saying "but they didn't unclip when I did it ...")

In reply to climbwhenready:

Yes, I know that. Thanks anyway