/ World Cup Game by Game

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Graeme Alderson on 13 Jun 2014
Brazil v Croatia

Okay game spoiled by bad reffing. No way was it a penalty to Brazil. 3rd Brazil goal might have deserved a free kick on the halfway line by US TV didn't show any replays.

Poor goal keeping for all 3 Brazil goals. Is the Croatian goalie just rubbish or is he on the take.
winhill - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I thought both keepers looked poor, although the Croat pulled off a nice one from Oscar early on.

Brazil look weak at the back and only Oscar and Neymar had a game.

Anyone on Argentina will be pleased.
Glyno - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

3 key decisions all went Brazil's way.

Neymar *could* have been sent off just prior to equalising.
Never a penalty.
Croatia goal harshly disallowed.
lummox - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Argentina,Germany, Spain have got nothing to fear from the Brazil team from that showing. The referee however....
In reply to Glyno:

> Neymar *could* have been sent off just prior to equalising.

Strange one that. If you watch the replay then Modric is definitely play acting a bit. Curious how both players are staring at each other as the ball approaches their heads.

I think yellow was enough - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27826355

> Never a penalty.

Agreed

> Croatia goal harshly disallowed.

Apparently these will always be given as fouls in this WC. It didn't look to me like one, but it does sound like they are sticking to their guidelines on this.
Chris the Tall - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Blame the ref as much as you like, but with 22 cheats on the pitch and no replays to analyse in slo-mo, it's an impossible job. The Brazillian cheated to win a penalty, the result can't be changed but it ought to be possible take retrospective action and ban him for a couple of games.

As to Croatia's goal, should have been allowed but really the problem there is the rules and the desire for refs to be consistent. Plus the Brazilians did stop playing when they heard the whistle.
Douglas Griffin - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> The Brazillian cheated to win a penalty

Notice the way he looked skywards in thanks immediately after the ref awarded it? I'd better stop there; the last thing we need is another thread about religion.

I enjoyed the first half. Don't watch much football these days so it was the first time I've really seen Neymar. Quite impressive, I thought. Couple of outrageous bits of skill from Oscar too.
lummox - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> Notice the way he looked skywards in thanks immediately after the ref awarded it?

I was listening to a R4 programme a couple of weeks ago about how many of the Brazilian players are either traditional RC or charismatics of one kind or another- lots of promo work for their respective churches/ministries..
Chris the Tall - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to lummox:
The summary at the end of this is brilliant:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/09/world-cup-brazil-john-oliver_n_5471605.html

Football isn't just a religion, its an organised religion
1) It's leader claims to be infallible
2) It compels impoverished South Americans to build opulent cathedrals they can't afford
3) It could ultimately be responsible for numerous deaths in the Middle East

and yet
4) For millions of people around the world it is the only thing that gives their lives any sort of meaning
lummox - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Chris the Tall:

that is a funny video
Scomuir on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> Notice the way he looked skywards in thanks immediately after the ref awarded it? I'd better stop there; the last thing we need is another thread about religion.


If there was a god, why would this being pay any attention to a football match? At assuming it did exist, and did pay attention, why would it apparently assist in cheating? :o)

1poundSOCKS - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I was really looking forward to the world cup. That dive and the subsequent penalty has really put me off it now. I know it's to be expected these days, but Croatia did so well and deserved something from the game, it makes it seem worse.

I want England to win, but not at all costs. I would rather go out, than win like that.
Douglas Griffin - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Scomuir:

Stop it!! :-)
neilh - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Boy can the brazilians sing their national anthem --- very moving.
dek - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Scomuir:

> If there was a god, why would this being pay any attention to a football match? At assuming it did exist, and did pay attention, why would it apparently assist in cheating? :o)

If there was a God, the Tartan Army would be there, in 'Brazilian Heaven'?
Has there ever been a W C venue, where the Scots fans would be so totally at home! :-)
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> Strange one that. If you watch the replay then Modric is definitely play acting a bit. Curious how both players are staring at each other as the ball approaches their heads.

> I think yellow was enough - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27826355

I thought the elbow was hugely over played, there was no intent.. he's just shielding the ball.

Terrible keeping, he should have saved the penalty too. I didn't think Neymar was as good as was made out, two lucky finishes with poor keeping.

Absolutely disgusting penalty.

Re Croatia's 'goal'.. thats much more understandable than the penalty. You just cannot have contact on a keeper. In the EPL no chance would that be awarded. But De Gea struggled for this reason, in the UK keepers need to clear the zone they are going into, internationally they can just go limply and fall to ground.. I don't think the goal should have been disallowed, but think it was understandable where as the penalty just stunk.. remember Korea's goals back in 02? Very similar host decisions..
Mexico vs Cameroon

Already two goals disallowed for Mexico that should have both stood.

I sense another referee inquest!

Alan
Graeme Alderson on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Anyone got any hints for streaming in the US?
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

http://premier-league-live.net


That site can be OK..
Graeme Alderson on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:
Thanks Iain, got to head off to the airport at 2.30 so can't go to the pub for ESP v NED so the 1st half streamed will have to do.
Any issues with the program you have to download?
Post edited at 19:01
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
No, I don't anyway, it always says I do but just click the links. I find it OK, you sometimes have to change the channel, I think there are 4-5.. but some games are better than others streaming wise.

Depends how good the wifi is there though. You get adds every few minutes that you have to wait 10 seconds to close but its as good as any streaming site I've used.
Post edited at 19:20
Graeme Alderson on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

I can't get past the obligatory downloads and as it is only for 1/2 a game I will stick with text commentary.

(I have had too much hassle with other software getting bundled together in the past)

Anyway penalty and goal to Spain. text commentary makes it sound a bit dubious. Alan, any thoughts as you are obviously totally neutral in this game :-)
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Strange, never had to download anything, but on a mac, maybe its different.

Not sure on the penalty, close one, I'm not sure costa stood on the guys trailing leg, he turned back as he shaped to shoot.. but can see why it was given.
dek - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Van Percy's goal was a thing of beauty!!
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

quality finish.. 1-1 seemed fair on the first half.
dek - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Seen the rain?! ....expect mistakes this half!....:-)
In reply to dek:

Yep, it was technically brilliant and aesthetically beautiful, although the slow-mo of his chin ploughing through the turf wasn't quite so cool.
dek - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Roben makes it 2.1 to holland ...game on now!
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

3-1.. can't see how RVP's challenge was any different than the Croatian… I'd say his was a much clearer foul. It'd probably be allowed in the UK but rarely in europe/internationals..

Deserved though.
dek - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Fkin ell...4.1 now Casilis disaster!! :-)
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IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

With Chile to play Spain could be in trouble.. goal difference could be a factor.
dek - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> With Chile to play Spain could be in trouble.. goal difference could be a factor.

Yup, it's like watching Bayern murder Barca again!
Glyno - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I wonder how many of those Dutch players Van Gaal has persuaded to join him at United next season?
dek - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

5.1 for the new Man U managers team! :-))
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

He really is just so greedy.. could be more yet..
dek - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Did you see Spain's manager 'Gurning'.... Image of the tournament for me so far!
Glyno - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

seriously though, tomorrow would be a good time to put money on Spain to win the comp
dek - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:

They'll have to something radical with their defence then? It's just shocking tonight!
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:

They should still go through.. but a lot of pressure on the Chile game now..

They lost the first game last time and won, so maybe worth a punt.

But the runners up in their group play the winners of A.. probably Brazil..
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

Torres.. I can't remember many players becoming so poor.. he's just a shadow of his Liverpool days.
dek - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Torres.. I can't remember many players becoming so poor.. he's just a shadow of his Liverpool days.

Tbf, tonight you could've said that about a number of the Spanish, Esp the keeper?!
The Norris - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

I suspect de gea may be in with a shout next game
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to The Norris:

reina was number 2, not sure who currently is.
oscaig - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Wow - what a game. Now that's the positivity that Holland should have gone for 4 years ago. Mexico v Cameroon was good too though if Mexico had lost, the officiating team should have been strung up - another poor display by the boys in black.
SteveoS - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

FYI all the highlights of the BBC games are available on their website. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/27440809

What was the linesman doing in the Mexico game? (Only cos I got them in the sweepstakes)
WB on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Torres.. I can't remember many players becoming so poor.. he's just a shadow of his Liverpool days.


You are right. Whenever I see him play i expect a flash of the old brilliance, but he generally miscontrols the ball. I don't know how someone can become so bad. Its a shame. He was amazing.
Douglas Griffin - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to oscaig:

It's a thin line, though. If Silva had scored after that sublime ball inside the back from Iniesta, it'd have been 2-1 Spain.

Same as last night, Croatia could have gone 2-0 up, missed a great chance and a minute later it was 1-1.
Post edited at 22:37
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to SteveoS:

> FYI all the highlights of the BBC games are available on their website. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/27440809

> What was the linesman doing in the Mexico game? (Only cos I got them in the sweepstakes)

They are often only when in the UK.. unless you have a proxy server. In Germany I paid £5 a month for watchUKTVabroad.net or something.. so I could watch MOTD..
oscaig - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

You could try www.filmon.com - shows UK terrestrial channels live without the need for a VPN.
IainRUK - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to oscaig:

I have ESPN here.. as long as I can endure PK's… offense.. I'll be OK, decent coverage TBH, Ruud Van N and Martinez on the panel.
oscaig - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Yeah sorry - think it was Graeme looking for 'out of UK' viewing options. But know what you mean - watched the US coverage of the Scotland v US rugby last weekend and the terminology in the commentary drives you nuts and distracts...
wynaptomos - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> I have ESPN here.. as long as I can endure PK's… offense.. I'll be OK, decent coverage TBH, Ruud Van N and Martinez on the panel.

Sounds better than shearer and Ferdinand on the BBC. Thierry Henry is quite good though.
Tony the Blade on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

HT Chile 2 : 1 Australia

A cracking first half, a shame really as I was hoping to retire for the night, might have to give the 2nd half 10 minutes to see what develops.
Tony the Blade on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to wynaptomos:

Ferdinand ain't too shabby, Shearer says the obvious and Henry is a cheat.
goldmember - on 13 Jun 2014
In reply to wynaptomos:

mark lawrenson is such are grumpy boring ould bas***d, depressing to listen too
I like climbing - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Tony the Blade:

Oz should have had a penalty just now but Cahills disallowed goal was offside.....
dek - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

It's actually a great game! I hope the Aussies at least get a draw out of it!
Robert Durran - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to goldmember:

> mark lawrenson is such are grumpy boring ould bas***d, depressing to listen too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQriRjxNKqg
IainRUK - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to wynaptomos:
Rio knows the game.. He just sounds thick.. But even fergie said he would turn to him to discuss footballing issues.. As he's such a good reader of the game...
stroppygob - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

At least the Aussies know their PM is behind them....


> Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott has been accused of being many things, but a Socceroos fan is not one of them. Draped in a Socceroos scarf, Mr Abbott has called skipper Mile Jedinak "Mike" as he wished Australia well in a YouTube message just hours before they take the field in their opening World Cup clash against Chile in Cuiaba, Brazil on Friday (Saturday AEST). This is just the latest in a long line of gaffes for Mr Abbott, who just this week embarrassingly called Canada "Canadia".





Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/fifa-world-cup-2014/australia-2014/good-luck-mike-tony-abbott-gets-socceroos-s...
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IainRUK - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to wynaptomos:

> Sounds better than shearer and Ferdinand on the BBC. Thierry Henry is quite good though.

Ruuds actually really good, he's just signed up to be one of Hiddinks coaches with the national team after Van Gaal leaves, and seems to think about the game. Martinez is class, they then have Lalas, who's not bad..

one thing I like about the US commentary is when they introduce teams as the 'US mens team'… because womens soccer is so big here.

Shearer is just awful, he was never a clever a footballer, 'more pace, more power, more direct'… it's about all he says..

I like Henry, Savage can be good, he knows the game.
felt - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Seedorf was punditry gold. Like McEnroe or Michael Johnson.

Anyhow, Buffon's out, so that's us in.

Incidentally, I like Lawro; his ennui, fin de siecle weariness, pessimism of strength -- call it what you will -- is just up my street.
In reply to felt:

>
> Incidentally, I like Lawro; his ennui, fin de siecle weariness, pessimism of strength -- call it what you will -- is just up my street.

Me too.
felt - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Thinking about it, I like him for the same reason I like Boycott. They're both perfect foils, balancing agents; one for Lineker's relentless chirpiness, the other for Aggers's jolly optimism.
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

What do we think the score will be tonight? I'm going for 2-2.
Douglas Griffin - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Don't know but if Buffon is out that's a huge boost for England.
Douglas Griffin - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Wonderful atmosphere from Colombia's fans - and what a goal celebration from their players. This is what the World Cup's all about - great to see,
wynaptomos - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

You may be right about Rio but his delivery just doesn't do anything for me(may also be my City bias). Seedorf and Neil Lennon on now for the Columbia game - big improvement.
The Norris - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

3-0 england! though that might be the old speckled hen talking. I reckon our defence has the potential to be solid, and our attack has the potential to be swift and punishing, its just whether they turn up on the night as usual.
dek - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

> What do we think the score will be tonight? I'm going for 2-2.

3. 1. Ingerland ( I hope) depends what mood Balotelli's in though, probably the best scoring talent on the field. Great oppertunity for the young English players to make a big impression, looking forward to see them grab their chances!
I like climbing - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

> 3. 1. Ingerland ( I hope) depends what mood Balotelli's in though, probably the best scoring talent on the field. Great oppertunity for the young English players to make a big impression, looking forward to see them grab their chances!

I have no idea what to expect.......one part of me thinks we will be embarrassingly dull and limited but I live in hope that we will be exciting and score goals

I've got Balotelli in my fantasy league team though !
Glyno - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

The longer it stays 0-0 the better chance for England as I think we'll have players who can come off the bench and hurt Italy.
If however we go a goal down, then Italy are more than capable of killing the game, it's in their genes.

I fully expect to be proved totally wrong.
IainRUK - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

> 3. 1. Ingerland ( I hope) depends what mood Balotelli's in though, probably the best scoring talent on the field. Great oppertunity for the young English players to make a big impression, looking forward to see them grab their chances!

I think it could be anything.. if Pirlo plays well they win.. if we silence him we can win, and win well if we play with pace. But Balotelli is class, one of the worlds best on his day.. you just never know with him. Certainly loves being a tw*t so beating England will appeal to him..
IainRUK - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> Wonderful atmosphere from Colombia's fans - and what a goal celebration from their players. This is what the World Cup's all about - great to see,

This Uruguay game is superb…

;
US commentator.. 'Uruguay have never lost a world cup game when they are leading at the intermission'..

Costa Rica score twice… 2-1.. superb. 30 mins to go. Potentially great result for England.
IainRUK - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:

3-1…

This is a quality game..
steelbru - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Wow, Costa Rica look bloomin' good !
I like climbing - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to steelbru:

This is the group of death.......
The Norris - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to steelbru:

I thought Uruguay looked very poor at the back, especially at set pieces, there's hope!!
IainRUK - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to The Norris:

That was an upset though.. 34th in the world.. England (11th), Italy (9th) and Uruguay (6th) are top 10 there or there abouts…

Just getting out of our group would be an achievement.. now the group is open, a draw tonight would be a great result now.
Douglas Griffin - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

There's a long history of great footballing nations getting gubbed by Costa Rica in the World Cup finals. <coughs>
steelbru - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Lallana surely on better form than Wellbeck ?? Thought he would have been in starting 11
The Norris - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to steelbru:

Pirlos beard will win it with an overhead flip.
IainRUK - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to steelbru:

Welbeck is there to do what he did to ronaldo.. defensive job on Pirlo.. Lallana can't do that.
dek - on 14 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

1-0 Italy I reckon the...

Scratch that!! 1-1 game on ...great goal Sturridge!
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

Not too bad, we are now in a position where a draw with uruguay and a win with CR and we'll likely go through,… before KO we'd have taken that possibility.
dek - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Aye, but bugger it! I think England showed the Italians waay too much respect, and let them dictate the pace, and hold onto the ball for too long.
Sturridge and Sterling were superb, Rooney didn't look as sharp, and as happy as he should be?!
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

Wasn't too impressed by Sturridge.. thought Welbeck and Sterling were brighter..

Rooney did OK in his un-preferred position.

We let Pirlo be Pirlo.. unpressured and dictated. He loves that role, and we played into his hands second half once they scored. I still think we should have man marked him.
Padraig on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:


> Rooney did OK in his un-preferred position.

Not sure we were watching same game tbh?
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Padraig:
We were over run but we let Pirlo dictate.. we were just reacting.. the right tends to be the stronger wing. Its like using bilge pumps or just block the leak.. we let Pirlo dictate… at United, let Scholes play, we won.. same with Italy.. if we squeeze him out they lose.

I thought Welbeck would play more centrally and force him out but we played more of a 3-1 up front and none took Pirlo out.

Also United won a CL with Rooney playing in that role..
Post edited at 01:49
jezb1 - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Rooney had one moment of quality play, the rest of the time he didn't play his role well.

I wouldn't start him.

As others have said we were too shy with Italy for large parts of the game.

I'm loving seeing us run at oppononents though.
dek - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

No i was surprised England literally stood back, and admired the oldest guy on the park, and allowed him to dictate play! Steve Gerrard was astonishly ineffectual, can't see that happening again!
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to jezb1:

Just can't believe people are saying not start Rooney… even in an injure hit season he's been the most creative english forward. This is what we need to avoid.. all throwing the baby out.. we did OK.. we lost to a team with Pirlo given time.. that was the issue..
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:
> No i was surprised England literally stood back, and admired the oldest guy on the park, and allowed him to dictate play! Steve Gerrard was astonishly ineffectual, can't see that happening again!

It was incredible how we did that again.. we did it '12… we drew in 90 but Pirlo killed us. Gerrard is not Pirlo. Om US TV ballack was saying that Gerrard was Englands Pirlo.. I don't think he is anywhere close as effective, only Scholes in the last 2 decades probably, and he never played that role internationally.

Henderson played too deep, then Gerrard sat as he does for Liverpool, which let Pirlo dictate. I think the idea was Sterling, Welbeck, Rooney would work him but they didn't.. we played 4-2-3-1.. and it didn't work as it should have done.
Post edited at 02:25
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Highlight today was 'supposed englands golden generation, who achieved little'..

just because internationally we were poor.. yet at club level they won countless medals, around the world, and CL medals.. and numerous finals.. they may not have performed for england but they were top players.. the medals show that. They were key players in top teams.

Kagawa looks class again.. one day people will understand how good this guy is...
Glyno - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Both full-backs were poor as was Gerrard. Ashley Cole's experience could have made a difference in our back four.
Douglas Griffin - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:
Everyone knew before the game that Pirlo was likely to run things. You don't think that successive international managers (not just those of England) have had the idea of trying to stop Pirlo by putting someone on him? Maybe it's not quite as simple as that?
Post edited at 10:14
dek - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

" Maybe it's not quite as simple as that?"

It is if yer Hollands manager! :-)

Rosco P Coltrane - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

I understand how good Kagawa is! Utterly brilliant player and not given the plaudits he deserves.

England were 'ok' last night with a handful of positives to take away..Sterling was brilliant as was Super Danny Welbeck. Rooney struggled in that position but still committed and worked hard. Baines looked wobbly - and that lead to Rooney feeling he had to help out...agree with comment that A.Cole's experience was missed.

We now need a draw against Uruguay and that's not going to be easy as they will also need to come out and win. Our defence will struggle to contain them.

Would I get laughed at if I suggest we play good old fashioned 4-4-2?

jezb1 - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Rooney doesn't perform for England the same way he does for Utd though.

We were never going to win this WC so I'd have rather ditched Rooney and Gerard and put a squad out to build for the next one.
Shani - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to jezb1:

> ..... I'd have rather ditched Rooney and Gerard and put a squad out to build for the next one.

Rooney and Gerrard have never fulfilled their potential at international level and seldom replicate their club form on the international stage.

They've had enough chance to shine. Time to drop them.
Glyno - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Shani:

There was a gaping hole between our defensive midfielders (Gerrard and Henderson) and our attack (Sterling, Wellbeck and Rooney), the area in which Italy controlled.
This is the position in which Lampard has occupied to great effect for Chelsea and England.
He [Lampard} is a similar age to Gerrard, but I feel has constantly performed better at international level.
Douglas Griffin - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

108 passes for Pirlo last night. Only 5 misplaced.
winhill - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Rosco P Coltrane:

> Baines looked wobbly - and that lead to Rooney feeling he had to help out...agree with comment that A.Cole's experience was missed.

Baines was OK but Rooney's job is to help out!

That said, it was Welbeck who was stupidly out of position for the second goal, left Baines with two men to deal with, Jagielka came and went back in meaning Baines couldn't stop the cross.

Gerrard said after the game he felt they dealt with the left better in the second half, although that was what lost them the game.

Baines had a good go at Rooney early on but it wasn't enough, he should have got in his face at least, a punch wouldn't have been too much.

Barkley had Rooney take the ball off him and again he should have gone medieval on Rooney. There's a big problem if Rooney won't listen and younger players are loathe to criticise him.

England looked a bit toothless in the warmups and the same last night. A better option up front would be nice, pushing Rooney up didn't work, Croatia tried it when jelavic went off but in the conditions pushing your hardest working players up front for the last 15 doesn't seem like a great idea.

Last england start for Rooney against Uruguay if he fails again in that game, if we lose then the costa rica game is just a bit of fun and time to give others the ball.

Glyno - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:
A lot of valid points.
I believe one of the reasons for United's miserable season has been in no small part due to Moyes's pandering to Rooney's whims (on and off the field) and the inability of Rooney to adhere to a team shape and game plan.
I think it may have caused a certain amount of resentment among his 'team-mates' (note comments from van Persie and recently, Scholes).

I very much doubt Rooney will be afforded the same generosity from van Gaal and may not be at United beyond the next transfer window or two.
Post edited at 12:16
dek - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:


> I very much doubt Rooney will be afforded the same generosity from van Gaal and may not be at United beyond the next transfer window or two.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall when Rooney goes looking for anther wage increase!
BnB - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:

England needed a 10 bursting into the box to create options for a final ball. I hate to offer up Lampard because I don't think he's the answer.

I wonder how would we have fared with Rooney more central and the Ox partnering Baines on the left (maybe only once Sturridge and Wellbeck faded). That would have given the Italian right wing something to think about.
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to jezb1:

> Rooney doesn't perform for England the same way he does for Utd though.

> We were never going to win this WC so I'd have rather ditched Rooney and Gerard and put a squad out to build for the next one.

And what? be like Scotland getting a group of death every qualifying.. we need FIFA ranking points…

The fact that our best players haven't performed isn't a reason to drop them…
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

> Baines was OK but Rooney's job is to help out!

> That said, it was Welbeck who was stupidly out of position for the second goal, left Baines with two men to deal with, Jagielka came and went back in meaning Baines couldn't stop the cross.

> Gerrard said after the game he felt they dealt with the left better in the second half, although that was what lost them the game.

> Baines had a good go at Rooney early on but it wasn't enough, he should have got in his face at least, a punch wouldn't have been too much.

> Barkley had Rooney take the ball off him and again he should have gone medieval on Rooney. There's a big problem if Rooney won't listen and younger players are loathe to criticise him.

That is just incredulous… had rooney scored it would have been perfect as the defence was all going right with Barkley.. typical england fan.. they try to be creative and you jump on their backs.. the players live in fear from you lot just wanting to shoot them down.
jezb1 - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:


> The fact that our best players haven't performed isn't a reason to drop them…

I'd say it was a very good reason to drop them.

winhill - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> That is just incredulous… had rooney scored it would have been perfect as the defence was all going right with Barkley.. typical england fan.. they try to be creative and you jump on their backs.. the players live in fear from you lot just wanting to shoot them down.

what bum custard, Barkley was fuming, HE was being creative not Rooney.
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

Absolute nonsense little man…
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to jezb1:

> I'd say it was a very good reason to drop them.

Well his goal scoring record is good.. but for England we've struggled to play with any dynamism for a few years.. thats the coaches fault.. these players are class. Fergie wouldn't have someone at United if they weren't at the level. The supposed golden generation was probably one of the most successful era's in the history of the English game.. we had that spell in the late 70's/80's but football was at a much lower standard.. but between them that generation won countless titles and CL titles, and god knows how many final appearances..

Sturridge had a quiet game yet its now vogue to attack Rooney, when he actually produced the one moment of world class football with that cross. Yes, left wing may not be his preferred position, but unlike Scholes - who was a shit left winger played there to accommodate him - rooney is a top class option in that role..
andymac - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Rooney is now under far too much pressure .

And Scholes comments have not helped.

Is it any wonder players opt not to play for their country.

Or retire from international duty early ,like Paul 'The Voice Of Football' Scholes.
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to andymac:

There's history between those 2.. Scholes was unhappy with how Rooney handled the first contract issue when he came out saying he wanted to leave. He was injured in the next training session which was allegedly the result of a nasty challenge from Scholes.. letting him know that he wasn't happy..

I don't understand the comments about rooney today.. just read an article by Mourinho on him and he points out Italy won because they played superb, england played well.. yet typical England we just want to get at a player of ours instead..

When you play Rooney as a left midfielder you lose his goal threat… but he's still attacking and will leave you exposed.. thats a gamble Roy took.. but why we got a goal because he gambled and went forwards when his man went forwards.
andymac - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:
Didn't know about history between the pair.sounds like Scholes.Haha.

Salford boy ,and Proper Red.

Think I pointed out onthe Pub thread last week ,that Rooney was the fall guy.

Not fair ,but the English media love a scapegoat.

Doubt it will get as bad as Beckham being smuggled back into the
country in 1998 as Public Enemy No.1

P.s Which was a disgrace.
Post edited at 19:32
winhill - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Absolute nonsense little man…

It's called nuance, learning how to read the game, maybe outfield experience helps:

87' Rooney steals the ball off the toe of Barkley, before firing a left-footed effort over the crossbar - the substitute looks on despairingly

http://www.goal.com/en-india/match/england-vs-italy/1220089/live-commentary

86 min: I'm sorry to say it but Rooney is playing for himself now. He takes the ball off Barkley's toes and fires a left footed shot high over the bar. Barkley can barely believe it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10892814/England-vs-Italy-World-Cup-2014-live.ht...

I guess you need to watch it again and try to work out what's going on, if you're dreaming about Man U's golden age it ain't going to help.
dek - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Anyhoo... Vierra pointed out the England players were cramping up, and it's only the first game. He mentioned it could be "nerves" was he being diplomatic?
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

I've probably played more outfield games than you've hot hot lunches laddo…

Yes he was disappointed.. so what? Sturridge is always unhappy when Suarez shoots.. you take chances, react spontaneously.. Rooney took a chance.. it didn't work out, so what? First half he took a chance crossing when there was one guy at the back post and no clear view.. that came off.. yet muppets like you would rather hang him for the moment it went wrong..
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

> Anyhoo... Vierra pointed out the England players were cramping up, and it's only the first game. He mentioned it could be "nerves" was he being diplomatic?

That was strange.. but we did a lot of running as they passed and passed.. so maybe that was why.

I thought we did OK, Italy are a good team.. had this been our last game and we'd won the first 2 we'd be happy enough… now the country is ganging up on them and the pressures on..
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to andymac:

Yeah, he's about the last of the old guard.. Gerrard has gone deep and tends not to get the abuse..

Cardi - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Just saw a brief clip from the last world cup. Has anyone else clocked how tranquil it is to watch a game without those goddamn awful vuvuzelas?
IainRUK - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Cardi:

There is a new official World Cup noise maker.. It's a shaker/rattle thing.. But are already banned from all grounds as people were throwing them on the pitch during the trial games..
jezb1 - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

I reckon Lambert would have put that Rooney chance away when he had loads of time in the box...
Denni on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to jezb1:

Honduras, hacking buggers! Pogba, excellent and good game by the French.
wynaptomos - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Denni:

Honduras are like the old Wimbledon! Good game, not entirely for the right reasons though.
In reply to Denni:

They are proper dirty bastards.
I like climbing - on 15 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Well the sons of Rattin are about to take the field......
dek - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

Bosnia getting stuck into the Argies, not overawed or letting them dwell too long on the ball , are you watching Woy?
winhill - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

undone by the number 10.
dek - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

Hah! A well deserved goal for Bosnia!
2-1 six mins to go...
IainRUK - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to jezb1:

And lambert wouldn't have put the cross in.. and also his goal scoring rate wasn't superb last season.. 13 in 37.. Rooney was 19 in 40 games.. 17 league goals.. plus one of the highest assists in the league.. he's in because he performs..
In reply to IainRUK:

Totally agree with Iain.

We have this ever time with one of the England players. People used to question Beckham's presence at World Cups and Euros in exactly this way, yet he had one of the highest asset rates of any England player at major tournaments in recent times.

If I was Roy, I'd put Rooney central and have the young guns on the wings though.

Alan
MonkeyPuzzle - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I would've liked to see Rooney, Sterling and Welbeck having the freedom and wherewithal to swap positions throughout the game. They can all play in any of those positions and it would've given the Italians a bit more to think about. Having said that, I don't think it was those guys who were the issue - Gerrard and Henderson didn't press nearly enough and the Italian midfield are more than happy to have time and space.
winhill - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> Totally agree with Iain.

> We have this ever time with one of the England players.

This is just daft, same problem as the thread before that said Rooney was going to be the fall guy for England.

It elevates him above criticism - which is part of the problem.

You've got his defence criticising him, him complaining to the bench, criticised for a role he himself says he doesn't like playing and getting moved off at half time.

There's only yourself and Iain claiming he put in a 'world class' performance.

If you put Sturridge up front and his best partner is Sterling, where do you put Rooney?

The best you can say is that Rooney was out of sorts because Roy shoe horned him into a bad place.
In reply to winhill:

> There's only yourself and Iain claiming he put in a 'world class' performance.

Well I haven't read all Iain's replies but I don't think he said anywhere that Rooney's performance was 'world class' and I certainly didn't.

Most of the TV pundits are saying stick with Rooney up front and play him in his best position.

Alan
winhill - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> Well I haven't read all Iain's replies but I don't think he said anywhere that Rooney's performance was 'world class' and I certainly didn't.

Everyone's 'class' for Iain, he said the cross was world class and Rooney was a 'top class option in that role'

> Most of the TV pundits are saying stick with Rooney up front and play him in his best position.

Exactly, everyone (except a few Man U fans) agrees he didn't enjoy that position, if he was doing so well why move him?

The traditional number 10 may well be his best position but if Sterling is a better partner for Sturridge where does that leave him? If there are better options out left, where does that leave him?

I can't see how saying criticising him is just the same as people who criticised Jimmy Greaves for liking a drink can add anything.(In fact Greaves was dropped for similar reasons, Ramsay liked the Peters/Hurst partnership).

Did you see Vialli speaking before the game? Interesting he thought that the difference would be that the Italians can handle pressure whereas the English can't, although he thought it would finish 1-1.

He seemed to think that the over-emotional aspect of Italian culture meant that they coped better, and for all the shit about England players being under too much pressure, the reason is the opposite, there isn't enough competition to put Rooney on the bench.

The guy putting all the pressure on Rooney ATM is RvP, if van Gaal can persuade Robben to move the only muscles Rooney will be exercising next season is his glutes.

IainRUK - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:
I didn't say he put in a world class performance.. he puts in a shift and had a world class moment.. that cross was superb.

No he isn't a fan of playing anywhere but number 9.. but he plays anywhere and does a shift. It was why Fergie used him that much in those roles. He's one of the most verstalile players in the league and why he's so important to any team he's in.

I'd play him at number 9.. I don't think number 10 is his best spot.. I thought Sturridge had a fairly quiet game, but Rooney plays elsewhere because Rooney is the better player in other positions.. so he's the one you can move around to accommodate more. It's not like when Eriksson used to play Scholes on the left, he did hate it their and he was played there to keep him in the team when there were better options. With Rooney there isn't, he's that good in other roles, we won the CL and league double with tevez, ronaldo and Rooney, and rooney often took the more defensive role. Because he did abetter job.

Sturridge created nothing, had one shot, but otherwise was pretty anonymous until Rooney put the ball on a plate for him. Yet he's now darling of the team and gets no abuse. There was more made about Sterlings pass than Rooney's cross.. Sterling was playing the ball into a 10 x 10 area.. Rooney had a metre wide corridor to get that ball into moving at pace.. that was world class.

Re moving him.. what happened? we had another goal conceded from that spot..

Quite frankly I'm gob smacked by you, but I expect i from you, we just saw probably the best performance by an England team at a major championship in the 4 last tournaments or so.. I can't think of many like that. We were attacking, much more dynamic, caused Italy issues, could have had a draw and played with a lot of youth.. and all people like you want to do is moan… that is the problem.. not the lack of pressure.. If we play like that we'll easily get through, yet you'd just rather focus on the negatives and knock Rooney, just because he's a Man Utd player. Yet it was his moment of magic which created our goal, but you'd rather focus on him taking the ball off barkley or screwing a later chance wide, when TBH his thinking was spot on.. he's sent the keeper wrong way, just pulled it wide.. hardly worth shooting him for..

The pressure comes from the person, you don't get to compete at the level of Rooney without that drive… of course he's under pressure. But simple facts are he was in a poor United team, injured for much of the season, scored 1 in 2 games and was one of the most creative players in the league.. so he's still our best option.
Post edited at 14:56
Glyno - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

What puzzled me more than anything was that none of the three players behind Sturridge (Rooney, Wellbeck & Sterling) were in their favoured position.

Wellbeck was on the right - Sterling is better in that position,
Rooney was on the left - Wellbeck is better in that position, and
Sterling was in the centre - Rooney is better in that position.

If you wrote their names on paper and drew them out of a hat you'd surely get at least one right?

The only thing more baffling was The BBC's choice of Phil Neville as co-commentator!


...and another thing, Ashley Cole has played over 100 games for England and I don't ever remember anyone bemoaning his lack of protection from the left-sided forward.
Glyno - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:
>...and had a world class moment.. that cross was superb.

>

World class, seriously? You see crosses like that in most games, most go unnoticed because the forward fails get on the end of it.
Post edited at 15:57
IainRUK - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:

Yes.. it was a narrow channel.. I don't think you do see many great crosses, that's been United's issue all season. Was it the Everton game when we put more crosses in than any team in the league,30 or something.. and not one was any good..

He laid it on a plate, early cross, Beckhamesque.. from that position that was the only possible ball with one man to aim at.. he didn't just whip it in hoping that 2 or 3 may be there..

IainRUK - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:

> What puzzled me more than anything was that none of the three players behind Sturridge (Rooney, Wellbeck & Sterling) were in their favoured position.

> Wellbeck was on the right - Sterling is better in that position,

> Rooney was on the left - Wellbeck is better in that position, and

> Sterling was in the centre - Rooney is better in that position.

> If you wrote their names on paper and drew them out of a hat you'd surely get at least one right?

> The only thing more baffling was The BBC's choice of Phil Neville as co-commentator!

> ...and another thing, Ashley Cole has played over 100 games for England and I don't ever remember anyone bemoaning his lack of protection from the left-sided forward.

I think Rooney has a better left foot.. I don't think we should have had strict positions, all 3 can rotate.. I'd have done that, United used to with Ronaldo and Rooney.. with Beckham and Giggs.. just 3 players who can interchange…

TBH I'm sick to the death of this shite about players being exposed.. we played Sterling, Welbeck, Rooney, Sturridge.. that was the most attacking line up in a decade at least.. and people moan we were exposed… what do they want really? we scored because we had that line up… all those are naturally attacking players, play those 4 and they will gamble on balls.. and Rooney gambled went forwards and we scored.. other times it didn't work.

People have moaned and moaned about England's lack of positivity… then we play like that and you have muppets bleating on that we left full backs exposed.. that's what happens when you play 4 attacking players.

I remember Neville bollocking Ronaldo for not tracking back.. Fergie shot out of his box and gave him a right shouting at, that Ronaldo's job was to go forwards and Neville would have to just be exposed and cope..
Glyno - on 16 Jun 2014
MonkeyPuzzle - on 16 Jun 2014
Referee's already choked in Germany v. Portugal! How that could be anything other than a red for Perreira is beyond me.

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

How you get a red for brushing heads is beyond me. The world's gone mad.
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Actaully, I've just watched the replay - the German cheat was rolling around crying and when the Portuguese brushed heads with him he suddenly jumped-up cured. I'll have to get him round next time I've got a headache.

The pathetic cheating really puts me off football, and why the commentators and pundits don't call it what it is, is beyond me.
IainRUK - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
There was no choice.. Pepe was an idiot. The rules are pretty clear, if the ref wants to ref other games he had to red card him…

Its stupid as it was nothing, but you just can't do it.

Germany look good, Ronaldo isn't fit. Feel a bit for him as he'll be made out to be not that good.. and another let down etc.. but he's had a long season when he was struggling at the end..

3-0

The German did dive and should have had a yellow.. but Pepe was an idiot. Players should just wait and calmly approach the ref and warn about the cheating.

Post edited at 17:47
In reply to IainRUK:

Lee Dixon and Adrian Chiles have just gone up in my estimation (although Dixon is a cracking pundit anyway).

As an aside, what did you think of Joe Hart's performance? A few worrying signs I thought.
Rosco P Coltrane - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

This is a great game. Another great game in fact in what is, so far, the best world cup in a long time.

Can't agree about the ITV pundits though. BBC pundits much classier. Apart from maybe Phil Neville who is as dull as mild cheddar.
Lusk - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Zeig...Zeig...Zeig!!!

The headbut, anyone of those Portuguese would have done exactly the same with twice the drama!
In reply to Lusk:

Maybe so, but I still don't like it.
ads.ukclimbing.com
IainRUK - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

I thought he did OK.. couldn't fault him for any goal.

Not sure about the penalty in this game TBH.. want to see it again. I can see why it was given though.
Lusk - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

4-0 and a hat-trick! :-)
Denni on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:

Watching this on ITV plus 1, Germans are good value.
IainRUK - on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Denni:

They'll do well.. look strong, fit and have goals in them. Portugal had a few chances but without Ronaldo they struggle, and he just doesn't look fit. Unlik Messi, Ronaldo is all about power and pace, once he loses that he loses his effectiveness massively and he just has no confidence to beat a man with this injury.. a pity as he's right at his peak but the season has caught up with him.
Owen W-G - on 16 Jun 2014

Did you see the joe hart going mental moment on sat night? Funny they didn't broadcast this on BBC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bZwr2FeC_Q
Denni on 16 Jun 2014
In reply to Owen W-G:

USA, Clint Dempsey v Ghana, 30 second goal!
1poundSOCKS - on 16 Jun 2014
winhill - on 17 Jun 2014
winhill - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

1-1 it's been all ghana in the second half.
winhill - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

til tht corner

2-1 USA
Denni on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

Savage going nuts!
IainRUK - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Denni:

USA! USA! get in.. top game.. superb world cup so far.

Thats a huge result.. get a point in the next 2 could send them through… solid team, fit, strong, some decent players.
IainRUK - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Penalty to Algeria… this would be a shock..
Denni on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Could be a shock. I thought Belgium would have a decent chance of maybe the semis but not looking too sharp toady.

USA, great result and played fantastically. Good old Klinsmann!
Graeme Alderson on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Denni:

The tall lazy git scored. Miracles do happen ;-)
IainRUK - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Tough group, Russia, Algeria, South Korea, Belgium.. I think Russia will win it but not much between the teams. The world cup is much better now as there are no really weak teams, most of the teams come well set up, fit, and hard to beat.

2-1
dek - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

The Bells have wakened up at last! They've a he'll of a lot of fans in Brazil, Belgium must be deserted? :-)
Graeme Alderson on 17 Jun 2014
dek - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Yep, heard that on 5live today, apparently it's all a 'conspiracy'... Brazil's never gotten over Uruguay beating them in the 1950 final, 'sweet' revenge!

Mexico are doing well, I reckon Holland would thrash this Brazil team, I'm not terribly impressed , defo not a great vintage...so far!
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Mexican goalie's different gravy.
Rosco P Coltrane - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

Mexico 'keeper has made a few great saves...that last one was top drawer
IainRUK - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Rosco P Coltrane:

Good game, especially considering it was 0-0. Some great saves, that one from the header in the first half was absolutely world class. Mexico look a decent team, could have easily won. Still fancy Brazil, the winners often start steady.. think the dutch may have peaked too soon, we'll see.
Sean Kelly - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Well I have only watched 2 games, last nights and Brazil tonight, and have yet to see a goal! What am I paying my licence for!
Chris the Tall - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Ochoa - brilliant
Marcelo - pathetic
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> Ochoa - brilliant

> Marcelo - pathetic

I loved the way he ran for half a pace, touched his shoulder to show the world where the defender touched him, then threw himself to the ground.
IainRUK - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

he'd beaten the man too..
dek - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Rosco P Coltrane:

> Mexico 'keeper has made a few great saves...that last one was top drawer

A stunner! And what a magnificent venue that stadium is!
mark s - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

marcelo needs a slap for that horrendous piece of blatant cheating.

mexicos keeper has earned a tequila
I like climbing - on 17 Jun 2014
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> Ochoa - brilliant

> Marcelo - pathetic

Ochoa reminded me of Tomaszewski. My world cup highlight so far.


wynaptomos - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

It's hard to believe that there's not a better keeper in the whole of Russia than this guy!
ads.ukclimbing.com
IainRUK - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to wynaptomos:
1-1 dutch V Aussies.. aussies have a shocking penalty… awful decision.

2-1..

Hand to ball, and the hand was by the side.. and the ball hit from a metre away.. if the hand is up I think they are penalties, if the hand down I don't think they should be..

2-2 cracking finish..
Post edited at 18:15
dek - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Just come in to see this score....blooming Gobsmacked!! :-)
IainRUK - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

All change, 3-2.. keeper error, but it did swerve, dip and skip.. think the dutch will run away with this now..
In reply to IainRUK:

Cracking game. I think it's a bit harsh to call it a goalkeeping error. RvP is deadly.

Amazing stadium.
IainRUK - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Yeah, when I first saw it it looked bad, but you see it change and then really skip off.. it looked like he had weak hands but I think he was just too late. The new balls easily make keepers look arses..
winhill - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

chile good value for 0-1.

70 minutes for spain to turn it round.
Mike.Kinge - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

65 minutes for Spain to save their World Cup campaign. Wasn't expecting to say that in their second match...
Denni on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Mike.Kinge:
Alonso should have had a red there.

And another to Chile!!!!!
Post edited at 20:43
winhill - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

fcuk me 0-2 spain need to do it second half
IainRUK - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Denni:

2-0.. could have very well been a red.. it was dangerous.
Denni on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Especially in slo mo!
winhill - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

25 minutes for Fernando Torres to work his er, magic.
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Is it the Chilean coach who looks like Karl Pilkington?
dek - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Denni:

> Especially in slo mo!

I think Spain is actually 'Scotland in disguise'.......:-)
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

Nah, Scotland usually manage to do just well enough to be knocked out on goal difference after the 3rd game.




Well, managed to...

Chris the Tall - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

So Spain, winners of the last World Cup, and last two Euros, are the first team to be eliminated after 2 terrible performances. Very pedestrian, they seem to be lacking something.

<Cough> Fuentes
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Chris the Tall:

More likely a decent striker and midfielders the right side of 30...

In The last World Cup they had villa, and Torres still remembered how to play football

Too many great players past their peak, and the next generation not up to the same standard

Like man utd on a national level...
andymac - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Bloomin heck!

Just come in to this.

Think I posted it somewhere a few weeks back ,but a local tipster of some repute felt it in his waters that Chile were the team to back

Was news to me , but maybe his crystal ball has done it again.
In reply to dek:

What! - you don't remember what happened in 1963!!+
I like climbing - on 18 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

Song is an idiot.
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

I quite fancied Cameroon, just because they've a decent squad and have been so poor in the past few tournaments..

One thing, do UK commentators still use 'Ivory Coast'? in the US it's only Cote d'Ivoire, which is supposedly the new correct name for the country. I never knew that until I was watching..

A few key games now, Mexico V Croatia… I fancy Mexico I think.. they only need a point.
The New NickB - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> One thing, do UK commentators still use 'Ivory Coast'? in the US it's only Cote d'Ivoire, which is supposedly the new correct name for the country. I never knew that until I was watching..

Only because they speak French in Ivory Coast / Cote d'Ivoire, it is no different from Brazil / Brasil or Spain / Espana.

England will be Angleterre is France / Ivory Coast, Inglaterra in Spain / Argentina / Mexico etc.
drunken monkey - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to The New NickB:

Poor Rooney is on for a hiding from the English press if England lose tonight.
I like climbing - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> I quite fancied Cameroon, just because they've a decent squad and have been so poor in the past few tournaments..

> One thing, do UK commentators still use 'Ivory Coast'? in the US it's only Cote d'Ivoire, which is supposedly the new correct name for the country. I never knew that until I was watching..

> A few key games now, Mexico V Croatia… I fancy Mexico I think.. they only need a point.

It's Ivory Coast here.....interesting about the US description.
I think Croatia will do well to score against Ochoa, but that will be an exciting game.
Lusk - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to andymac:

Tiki-taka is dead...Hallelujah!!!

In reply to Lusk:

> Tiki-taka is dead...Hallelujah!!!

You're f*cking joking - he was my favourite Teletubbie!
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

He could have gone for that.. deliberate blocking of a goal scoring opportunity..
Chris the Tall - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I've got a bad feeling about this
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Chris the Tall:
should have been off then...

I think Baines has had a bad world cup so far.. offered little threat
Post edited at 20:30
The Norris - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Hopefully that will give us some confidence! And yes, Baines doesnt seem to be playing that well so far.
ads.ukclimbing.com
rocky57 - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

If Rooney had a bit more of a barnet he might have got that hearder.
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

BUGGER!!!
1 nil Uruguay
winhill - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

fcuk
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> I've got a bad feeling about this

Maybe the Private Eye cover wasn't so stupid after all! :(
Skyfall - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Closing us down too fast, too much pace (most of the time), better technically, it isn't going to end happily. Shame as we do look a lot better than the euros.
ThunderCat - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Indy:

> BUGGER!!!

> 1 nil Uruguay

I've got a £2 bet that England will lose with the boss. I don't know / care much about footy - it's really just to wind him up.

This is probably the only football match I've ever followed...
Chris the Tall - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> should have been off then...

Classic case of a second yellow not being given where a first one would have been.

Great goal from Suarez, but it always looked likely
Lusk - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to rocky57:
He's a short arse prick, get rid of him!


Should be fun in the scouse dressing room next season.
Post edited at 20:53
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I'm sick of the sight and sound of that cockney wanka Winstone during the ITV adverts.

We should be playing against 10 men; we seem to be playing against 12...
I like climbing - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to rocky57:

Rooney's been good .......
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

We're too defensive.. playing as a flat back 4, which when you have Johnson as a right back is dangerous, as he's a poor defender, he's much more effective going forwards. Baines isn't a bad defender but again he's much better forcing players onto their back foot..

Jags was caught under that..

They look stronger in the middle though, Gerrard and Henderson need to get control and dominate.
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

> Closing us down too fast

England have very seldom had that killer instinct when playing at the top level
phleppy on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

England were never really going to get out of this group, they literally need a miracle now and I can't see where it's coming from!
Skyfall - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Gerrard started strongly I thought then faded and mistakes crept in.

I have to say I am with the masses and think Rooney is just lacking something and ought to come off. Yes, I know he's been close, but there's only so long you can keep hoping...
Tony the Blade on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to phleppy:

Beckham's warming up, and JT is sat wearing a full kit.
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

I think he's been OK.. came deep a bit too much.. but the front four have been out of the game.. Rooney's looked the most creative I think..
Skyfall - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Indy:

> England have very seldom had that killer instinct when playing at the top level

You don't have to tell me - my first World Cup was 74.
Skyfall - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Let's see ;)
rocky57 - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

Not trying to disrespect Heskey in any way, but I'm putting Rooney forward as DONKEY Mk2. Possibly even SUPER DONKEY. You heard it here first.

As you say how long do you let it go for. The instant he 'tackled' Barkly in the last game was the last straw for me. He is blatantly playing for himself now in a bid to save his credability.
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
Shocking.... 3 let offs in less than 10 minutes!
Post edited at 21:09
dek - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

Ffs I've. just come in from a wee jog, and my first thoughts are England's needing Terry and Cole at the back to tighten this lot up!!
Don't think I've missed much, re first half?!
ThunderCat - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to phleppy:

> England were never really going to get out of this group, they literally need a miracle now and I can't see where it's coming from!

So they're out if the lose this?

What if they draw? Does that depend on the rest of the group?

(Me = Football = Clueless)
phleppy on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Tony the Blade:

I don't think I've ever been so underwhelmed watching England in any tournament as much as these last two games, has anyone else resigned to the fact that were out of this world cup or are people still being widely optimistic?

phleppy on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

Calm down princess!
ThunderCat - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to phleppy:

> Calm down princess!

Eh? I'm only watching it because of a £2 bet with the boss - I know nowt about football and wasn't sure what a draw would mean?
Skyfall - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Now - Rooney in right place but misses, again. Would Suarez, say, have missed? Is Rooney our best finisher? Debate endlessly but I don't think he actually has the quality.
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

> So they're out if the lose this?

Technically they can lose and still go through depending on what happens in the other group matches
phleppy on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

Apologies, I just thought you were having a dig as is the usual on the forums.
If they draw they need to beat Costa Rica and better both costa rica's results and Uruguay's results if Uruguay beat Italy.
dek - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

I take it Lampard is unfit? If ever a game needed a bit of drive.....
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

Suarez misses shed loads.. its one of his weaknesses his conversion rate is pretty average with other strikers.

I don't think he's done too much wrong, just snapped at it,

ads.ukclimbing.com
winhill - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

sterling off?
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Bloody well impotent!
dek - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Suarez misses shed loads.. its one of his weaknesses his conversion rate is pretty average with other strikers.

> I don't think he's done too much wrong, just snapped at it,

Just as well he's not 100% fit then?.....:-)
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Can't see us scoring one, let alone two(((
The Norris - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

I reckon Gazza, after a night in the dentist chair could probably do better than this lot.
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

i think theres too much abuse at rooney, had he played that ball that sturridge just played… he's working hard, getting about, one of our brighter players.
ThunderCat - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to phleppy:

> Apologies, I just thought you were having a dig as is the usual on the forums.

> If they draw they need to beat Costa Rica and better both costa rica's results and Uruguay's results if Uruguay beat Italy.

No, not at all fella. Absolutely clueless. Heard they HAD to win this to go though, then heard they could lose and still go through (but I guess that depends on others). Really don't know how the scoring works...(and still not entirely sure.. :))) )

Right now, my £2 is looking safer and safer...

stevieweesaxs107 - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to The Norris:
Haha
Jimmy five Bellies more like!
Final Baw is poor
Engerlund are going home B-)
Post edited at 21:25
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

The ref seems to be giving them all the decisions.
phleppy on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

If they lose this they need Italy to beat both Costa Rica and Uruguay.

Your bet is I'd say....very safe!
rocky57 - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:
> Suarez misses shed loads..

Whoa, with 30 international goals in 79 matches, I'd be happy with his miss rate.

Rooney, three world cups so far, and no goals.

Justify.

PS Right now I hope he scores, in fact I hope he scores an hatrick...

Bugger me, he scored!
Post edited at 21:31
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Will somebody tell England that your not meant to tap it to the Uruguayan goal keeper FFS!!
The Norris - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to rocky57:

Theres the first!!
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to The Norris:

what did I say...
winhill - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

one he couldn't miss
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Come on!
Skyfall - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Lol, pure luck ;)
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
YES!! Goal!!!

Thats better England upping the pace... can they get another?
Post edited at 21:34
Glyno - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

> Now - Rooney in right place but misses, again. Would Suarez, say, have missed? Is Rooney our best finisher? Debate endlessly but I don't think he actually has the quality.

reverse psychology?
dek - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to rocky57:

Your in luck.....about fckin time too!! I'm chuffed for the Roo!
rocky57 - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to The Norris:

Okay, he's a genius, the best footballer in the world, right now.
ThunderCat - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to phleppy:

> If they lose this they need Italy to beat both Costa Rica and Uruguay.

> Your bet is I'd say....very safe!

You reckon?

:(
phleppy on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

Erm....maybe I spoke too soon, it's funny I was just about to go on a Rooney bashing just like everyone else and what do you know, he goes and scores!
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to rocky57:
Well how about 3 CL finals, how many titles? 5?

158 in 307 games for United…
39 in 93 for England…

Look at international scoring rates.. assuming your figures are correct…


Rooney a goal ever 2.4 goals, Suarez a goal every 2.6 international games..

BuT i said conversion rates… chances/goal… not games / goal…

Rooney 3 chances.. 1 goal.. 33%.. Suaez is typically 22-26% over a season.. he just creates lots of chances.
Post edited at 21:37
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

A draw doesn't do England or Uruguay any favours
Glyno - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to phleppy:

> Erm....maybe I spoke too soon, it's funny I was just about to go on a Rooney bashing just like everyone else and what do you know, he goes and scores!

nooo, carry on
stevieweesaxs107 - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Game on........There's a winner here for somebody
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Indy:

It keeps us in it..
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to stevieweesaxs107:

This would be England in a nut shell.. lose 2-1.. just to make it that much more fun..
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

They'll HAVE to beat Costa Rica
ads.ukclimbing.com
dek - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Will someone tightly man mark Suarez please?! This is rediculous !
phleppy on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

WERE OUT! That is it people, goodnight!
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

You said it all!
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:

awful awful a long shallow kick beats everyone..
Glyno - on 19 Jun 2014


I expect Real Madrid to make Liverpool an offer they can't refuse for Suarez
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

> Will someone tightly man mark Suarez please?! This is rediculous !

Wonder what the Liverpool dressing room will be like next season?
ThunderCat - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to phleppy:

> Erm....maybe I spoke too soon, it's funny I was just about to go on a Rooney bashing just like everyone else and what do you know, he goes and scores!

And I'm back in the game. This means 4 free bags of wheat crunchies for me and a chance to say "nurr nurr na nurr nurr" to the gaffer :)
winhill - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

> Will someone tightly man mark Suarez please?! This is rediculous !

he was in an off side position, if it came off a uruguayan head it wouldn't have counted.
Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:
As usual it'll get drawn out an England will go out but the optimism will go right to the wire!
Post edited at 21:47
The Norris - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

It seems to be Gerrard that has been playing poo this time.

My accumulator was going so well until this game :-(
Glyno - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Indy:

> Wonder what the Liverpool dressing room will be like next season?

minus Suarez
winhill - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to The Norris:

> It seems to be Gerrard that has been playing poo this time.

very bad decision there, misses from distance with 2 minutes to live, just like Ghana.

Indy - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Bummer....
ThunderCat - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to phleppy:

I've texted the boss - told him pound coins or silver...whatever is easiest...
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:
It's incredible there was any debate on Rooney.. he was one of or brightest players, but regardless we've conceded 4 goals in 2 games.. 3 have been pretty horrid.

I thinkHart can have a look at his starting position for the last goal.. and not stood up enough, watch the mexican keeper against Brazil.. often just stayed big. But he was way too deep. The ball has travelled 80 yards and he's still 5 yards off his line.
Post edited at 21:56
andymac - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to The Norris:

Kind of glad that Gerrard is now under the lights

Has been a great player ,but his ego has shone through in the past week .

Asking players to stand up and be counted indeed.

'Stevie Me' as the Red Mancs christened him

Glyno - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Gerrard has continued his abysmal end of season form for his club with two completely inept performances for England but seems immune from criticism.

dek - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

> he was in an off side position, if it came off a uruguayan head it wouldn't have counted.

I posted that remark just before he scored....not that I matters now.
England need to get their shit together better at the back tho!
jezb1 - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Fair play to Rooney, still not his biggest fan but looked decent tonight and got himself in the right place for the goal.

Two bad bits of defending and a world class striker did us, I agree Hart could have done better for the second goal, made his move to early - stay big!

Would have liked to have seen Oxlaide Chamberlain involved.

We just weren't dangerous enough tonight.
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:

We were poor in the centre.. I expected more. But defensively we were all at sea.. people were happy we cut out the Rio, Terry, Cole domination at the back but the others just have not stepped up to the plate. 3 goals were direct centre half mistakes.. Rio, Terry, Sol for many tournaments would just not concede..

I still rate Hart and don't think he could do much on 3 of the 4, but the last one was just Sunday league football standard at best..
IainRUK - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

> I posted that remark just before he scored....not that I matters now.

> England need to get their shit together better at the back tho!

I don't think it matters tbh.. a centre forward should gamble.. a centre half should predict.. anticipate mistakes, keepers fumbling balls.. like a forward does, Suarez earned his luck, he gambled.. you don't play the offside on that ball.
Darron - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Looks like it will be '50 years of hurt' at the Euros in 2016

dek - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

I've just heard Chris Waddles analysis/Rant on 5live... Exactly the same as 4yrs ago, and he's Still correct!!
Tony the Blade on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to phleppy:

Every four years the rest of the country gets to know what it feels like being a Sheffield Utd fan.
phleppy on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to ThunderCat:

I'm glad someone got something out of this, you enjoy those wheat crunchies, I know I would!
phleppy on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Tony the Blade:

I feel for you then, an old fiend of mine supported them, he was never that happy I have to say!
Greenbanks - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

At least Gerrard & Suarez linked up well
Lusk - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

With any luck, Van Gaal will get rid of the scouse troll and replace it with a decent Dutch player next season, now you've got rid of that limp wristed Moyes!

I wonder how many Dutch players will be at Old Trafford... :-)
Darren Jackson - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Greenbanks:

I've just been given some fantastic odds on England beating Spain in the final.
Graeme Alderson on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:
Can't be arsed reading all the responses about the ENG game.

My view is that we had no plan A let alone a Plan B, especially in the 2nd half.

The ref didn't help though, 4 decent yellow card shouts (including a 2nd yellow) plus 2 or 3 penalty shouts (none shown as replays).

But we were shit. End of.
Post edited at 23:01
Lusk - on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

We just need some more dodgy refereeing and get rid of Brazil, and Germany can go on and win. JA!
Father Noel Furlong on 19 Jun 2014
In reply to Darren Jackson:

Very good!
IainRUK - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Massive over reactions in general from people..

Rooney had 4 chances all game.

1. Very good free kick, keeper totally beaten, just over, very good effort.
2. Header on the bar.. drilled cross, just too high for him, he leaped over a defender taller than him but couldn't keep it down.. far far from a sitter.
3. Driven snap shot.. well hit, low, across the keeper.. he did all he could do the keeper reacted and made the save.. Suarez just hammered his last shot, had Hart stood up like Ochoa it'd be a bad miss..
4. The goal..

Apart from that he was englands most creative player, got on the ball, tried to beat people.. Welbeck and Sterling were anonymous.. Sterling is young enough you can forgive, Welbeck is now 23-24.. past 'young'.. he needs to step up, he puts in a shift, works hard, but doesn't terrorise players like others do. he has it all but he needs to step up.

We lost closely to 2 very good teams, ranked higher than us in the world.. we should have won today.. but we've looked far better than in previous tournaments.. defended really badly but they are fixable. We need a right back, Liverpool conceded too much, Johnson's a liability.. unless you play him as a wing back.

But all in all we were ranked 3rd in the group, I think we need to keep things in perspective and not thrown the baby out of the pram..
TMM - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

There's a lot of negativity on this thread.

I am seeing the positives.
Greg Dyke stated this his aim for elite men's performance was to benchmark against the Spanish by 2022. We should be congratulating the FA on significant over achievement against their own objective. Bonuses all round.
Darren Jackson - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to TMM:

Yes, the boys done good.
lummox - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:

and then Scum will return to their rightful place ??
Cú Chullain - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

"We lost closely to 2 very good teams, ranked higher than us in the world.. we should have won today."

In fairness, that Italy side is one of the more average teams that country has produced over the years and Uruguay were beaten by Costa Rica last week, a team ranked 28th in the world. They were certainly not 'very good teams' and I will surprised to see either of them still featuring at the business end of the competition. Bar one or two exceptions, England were collectively woeful last night.

Never really understand the soul searching and shocked sense of failure every time England exit a competition, they have won feck all in nearly five decades. Despite their resources they simply cant be considered in the same league or pedigree as your Germany's, Brazil's, Argentina's, and even the recently disposed of Spain and current so so Italy side.
Douglas Griffin - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Cú Chullain:

> In fairness, that Italy side is one of the more average teams that country has produced over the years

Time will tell - I thought Italy looked pretty decent and they had a few very promising-looking youngsters.

I still don't think Uruguay are anything special although they obviously have one very special player. How they continue to perform at this level with a population of 3.3 million is amazing, though.

I thought England played reasonably well in phases v Italy but they were very poor overall last night. They had a good spell 10 minutes either side of the goal but they also had a torrid spell at the start of the second half when they were lucky not to concede on 2 or 3 occasions.
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

I thought the Premier League supporting cast 11 didn't do too badly all things considered . They were out of their comfort zone not being able to play alongside a few genuinely talented superstars to cover their shortcomings like they usually do in their day jobs.
Douglas Griffin - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to lummox:

Every time I see Suarez I think of one of the scousers from Lock, Stock & 2 Smoking Barrels:
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/EW0Sifakba4/hqdefault.jpg
lummox - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Love it ! ; )
MikeTS - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
.

> But we were shit. End of.

Agree. As my friend said at the end 'England. Breaking hearts since 1970'

slinky wizard - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Hats off or toupee to Rooney last night for scoring. He does have the best hair transplant of any striker in the world cup!!
Clint86 - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Darren Jackson:

I don't watch much football on telly and had never noticed Leighton Baines before. I thought he did more to deserve a 5 out of ten rating. He always seemed to get his cross in when pushing forward.
Clint86 - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Sterling wasn't anonymous. I kept noticing him on the ball. Just that nothing he did came off.
paul__in_sheffield - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

if i had to put a tenner on who could score after the ball bounces off Gerrard's shoulder, then its on a 75% fit Suarez every time over Shrek. Roo's a very good player who's had the advantage of having an excellent side built around him in Manchester. World class? Well Ronaldo, Messi and Suarez et al can turn a game on their own regardless of circumstances. Roo, close but no cigar. How many of his international goals have been against big international sides when it really matters?
Douglas Griffin - on 20 Jun 2014
rocky57 - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Well how about 3 CL finals, how many titles? 5?

> 158 in 307 games for United&#133;

> 39 in 93 for England&#133;

> Look at international scoring rates.. assuming your figures are correct&#133;

> Rooney a goal ever 2.4 goals, Suarez a goal every 2.6 international games..

> BuT i said conversion rates&#133; chances/goal&#133; not games / goal&#133;

> Rooney 3 chances.. 1 goal.. 33%.. Suaez is typically 22-26% over a season.. he just creates lots of chances.

I appreciate all the effort you went to in order to put down all those stats. However, it does not change the fact that Rooney has only (now) scored one goal in three world cups. On the other hand Suarez scores twice as many in one world cup match. So don't try to make Rooney out as a great England player, club player maybe, but for England his track record is woeful, when it matters, ie in the actual world cup, not the qualifiers.
Glyno - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

> How many of his international goals have been against big international sides when it really matters?

couldn't the same could be said of Messi and Ronaldo who have both only scored 2 goals at world cup finals?
Douglas Griffin - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Hodgson the second-highest-paid manager at the finals, apparently. £4m/yr.
Post edited at 12:38
MikeTS - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to slinky wizard:

> Hats off or toupee to Rooney last night for scoring. He does have the best hair transplant of any striker in the world cup!!

We were comparing Rooney and Suarez. Both are crazily rich. One had a hair transplant and got one goal. The other needs serious dental work and got two.
IainRUK - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Cú Chullain:

italy drew with luxembourg.. i think the costa rica game was a one off..

clint, baines played much better second half…
IainRUK - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to rocky57:

Like ronaldo, he's been unlucky with injuries.. but his CL/PL stats are good and his goals in qualifying.. he's played fairly well this tournament.
rocky57 - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

I agree.
wynaptomos - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> italy drew with luxembourg.. i think the costa rica game was a one off..

Yes, I agree. It's no fluke that Uruguay are where they are in the rankings - they've been a top team for the last decade and as for Italy, how many times have we seen them underwhelm us coming into a tournament only to end up in the semis or better? They just have a knack of doing just enough....

I think England played OK with a young team. Even though they will go home earlier(probably), to me it's a vast improvement over the last 2 tournaments where the so-called golden generation's lack of creativity was quite alarming for British football in general.

IainRUK - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Clint86:

> Sterling wasn't anonymous. I kept noticing him on the ball. Just that nothing he did came off.

Sterling was…

RAHEEM STERLING 5
Couldn’t get him on the ball enough. Didn’t look fit. Could have interchanged better with Rooney.

Raheem Sterling 5
Was crowded out, given him little space and he struggled to make an impact. Subbed.

I think he went missing.. which is understandable, he's 19.

Lallana is 26.. you don't suddenly become a top player. Barkley and wilshire are the future, we need to involve them but we desperately need a new centre half partnership.. Jags is too old now, but him and cahill were picked separately, not as a partnership..

I'd actually play Smalling, the worst one we have, with Cahill as he's the only one with genuine pace..

Stones will come in, he looks good.. Jones has potential but needs to show he can play 40 games a season.

IainRUK - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to wynaptomos:
> Yes, I agree. It's no fluke that Uruguay are where they are in the rankings - they've been a top team for the last decade and as for Italy, how many times have we seen them underwhelm us coming into a tournament only to end up in the semis or better? They just have a knack of doing just enough....

> I think England played OK with a young team. Even though they will go home earlier(probably), to me it's a vast improvement over the last 2 tournaments where the so-called golden generation's lack of creativity was quite alarming for British football in general.

I think that, the average age is superb.. I seriously think we're not that far off being a very good team, we weren't that far off qualifying here.. last time we went out meekly to algeria.. this time we played attacking football against good teams.
Post edited at 15:02
tony on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> I think that, the average age is superb.. I seriously think we're not that far off being a very good team,

I think England are a long way from being a very good team. They don't have, and haven't had for a long time, a player who can dominate proceedings and strike fear into the opposition. There's no-one remotely commanding, who makes the opposition take a step back.

And collectively, there's no cohesion which might overcome lack of individual ability. You can never rely on them to do the right thing. When they do do the right thing, you never whether it's by luck or by planning.

And then there's the fact that keeping possession of the ball seems to be a completely alien skill to too many England players.
IainRUK - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to tony:

We'll see.. I think Gerrard stepping away will help free up Barkley et al, Wilshire is schooled under Wenger, he knows the deal..

The players are good enough, the foreigners in our game have shown the way… so this anger about that is non-sensical.
Skol on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
I'm glad that they've been shown up to be not good enough at world level.
The game and the players are so far removed from the working man, that I couldn't give a monkeys about them.
Jealous of their wages, yes, who isn't.
But the mercenary way that they have marketed these replica kits that people have bought for their kids, in order to further line their fat wallets disgusts me. They no longer represent an England that I'm part of.
Apparently the pilot of the plane that took them said he would keep the engines running for them. Genius:)
Post edited at 17:17
ads.ukclimbing.com
IainRUK - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Skol:

They get paid similar if not less than a host of other sports.. look at the viewing figures.

It's quite simple, disagree with the wages, don't watch.. that ups viewing figures which brings in advertisers which brings in the revenue which gives players high wages…

The simple fact is millions watch UK football.. millions pay to watch Bad Pitt act so he gets paid huge wages.. millions pay to watch Miley Cyrus 'sing' so she gets paid good wages.. Justin Bieber will earn more than most of these guys for doing sod all but acting like a little turd… but his fans love him, it brings in revenue.. he gets fat wages…

We got beaten, just by a team ranked 6th in the world.. the response to it has been a disgrace and is the reason England have so much pressure on them..
dek - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Or as a headline said today...... At last!....England play like Spain. :-)
wynaptomos - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

I'm not disagreeing with you that the reaction is often over the top but is it really so much greater than other countries who seem to be able to cope with it? I just don't know for sure but I would imagine the reaction of the Spanish press right now will be way overboard......
winhill - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

must have been a penalty for costa rica?

wish Italy played like this against us.

fcuk it's in.
The Norris - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

Well Costa rica are winning... says it all really!
dek - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

That's a stonewall penalty if ever there was one!

Hah sweet goal!!!
wynaptomos - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to The Norris:

Fully deserved. Should have had a penalty just before. Good goal
winhill - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Skol:

> But the mercenary way that they have marketed these replica kits that people have bought for their kids, in order to further line their fat wallets disgusts me. They no longer represent an England that I'm part of.

hopefully the parents can send them back under the 14 day no question refund.

coinneach - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

Loving the impartial BBC . . . . Lineker wearing an Italy shirt?
wynaptomos - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to coinneach:

Since when has he been impartial. He often refers to england as "we". I never noticed that wales had qualified.
Fredt on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
Am I missing something?

If Costa Rica beat Italy, and Uruguay beat Italy, can't England still qualify by beating Costa Rica by a few goals??
Post edited at 18:19
Mike Highbury - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Fredt:

> Am I missing something?

> If Costa Rica beat Italy, and Uruguay beat Italy, can't England still qualify by beating Costa Rica by a few goals??

No
Fredt on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I see, I was missing something wasn't I!
The Norris - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Fredt:
I think, that because we have lost to both ital and uruguay, regardless of goal difference, they would be above us if we have equal points. possibly.

Edit, just read this http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2061793-brazil-world-cup-2014-clarifying-group-tie-break-scenario...

and it would seem that if we did thump costa rica (assuming they win against italy, and then either italy or uruguay win by a lesser margin, we could still progress...??

I dunno. seems unlikely as no one in the media has said that that is a possibility.

double edit, im being dumb! we can only get 3 points, and wither ital or uruguay are guaranteed to get at least one point, so will beat us. silly me.
Post edited at 18:50
coinneach - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Fredt:

> Am I missing something?

Yes ............


You think England can beat Costa Rica

Offwidth - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to coinneach:
If costa rica win or draw england are out...all this flag waving doesn't replace the maths. England need an italy miracle now to remove the effect of the one they missed on their own.
Post edited at 18:42
winhill - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

The World Cup - leavin' It
phleppy on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Offwidth:

They're out! From what I've read on several websites Roy Hodgson is keeping his job until 2016, how can this be?
I personally thought we should've had more midfield players who can actually keep the ball like Wilshire and Lallana in the first game but no and as for Gerrard, I've always been a big fan but he basically lost Liverpool the premier league title with awful passing and he practically set up both goals for Suarez last night. Every player has been fairly crap and the manager got it wrong. Were finishing bottom of the group and if we finish bottom with no points it will be unforgivable and the whole squad including staff need overhauling!
winhill - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

When Hodgson says you can't question the England desire, he needs to watch someone like Costa Rica.

Let's hope he drops Rooney and Gerrard and Jagielka now and starts to look forwards.
Indy - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Offwidth:
England need an italy miracle

Sorry Miracles are all sold out.

Its all over England are on there way home.
Post edited at 18:57
Indy - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to phleppy:

> They're out! From what I've read on several websites Roy Hodgson is keeping his job until 2016, how can this be?

You can't be serious?
andymac - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Well chaps.

I can't lie.

I'm glad you are out.

All is forgiven my Costa Rican cousins.The 24 year old scar has now healed.

Serious question ;

Are you genuinely that surprised that England are out?

Majority of you agreed months ago that England weren't going to do much.



Indy - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to andymac:
> Serious question ;

> Are you genuinely that surprised that England are out?

At the group stages yes.
phleppy on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Indy:

That's what the FA chairman says via the bbc football website!
Douglas Griffin - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to coinneach:

BBC commentator said he'd be happy to see an offside goal for Italy today.

That'll be an example of those British Values that we've been hearing about - justice and fair play.
winhill - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> We got beaten, just by a team ranked 6th in the world.. the response to it has been a disgrace and is the reason England have so much pressure on them..

You mean Uruguay?

Ranked seventh, only played 2 games to contribute to that rating this year, Northern Ireland and Austria, which contributed more points than all the previous years.

Stats - hardly useful or meaningful without context.
Skol on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> They get paid similar if not less than a host of other sports.. look at the viewing figures.
Way too much for what they delivered.

> It's quite simple, disagree with the wages, don't watch.. that ups viewing figures which brings in advertisers which brings in the revenue which gives players high wages…
I don't watch any Sky sport that I have to pay above my licence fee for.

> The simple fact is millions watch UK football.. millions pay to watch Bad Pitt act so he gets paid huge wages.. millions pay to watch Miley Cyrus 'sing' so she gets paid good wages.. Justin Bieber will earn more than most of these guys for doing sod all but acting like a little turd… but his fans love him, it brings in revenue.. he gets fat wages…

Neither do I go to concerts or the cinema

> We got beaten, just by a team ranked 6th in the world.. the response to it has been a disgrace and is the reason England have so much pressure on them..

Beaten by one man that they should have had a good insight into his danger! Shocking performance. Look at the player ratings.
Lusk - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Costa Rica 6 points.
France 2 goals in 20 seconds.
England 0 points.

Why do you defend these muppets?!?!
Skol on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:
If they had picked 25 random blokes from a decent semi pro level, I would have had more interest and I reckon at least a point!
What did joe hart say?' If we lose nobody can doubt our commitment and effort we've put in at training'. Or words to that effect . Can't be arsed looking up his bilge! The plonker was nearly done not once, but twice, at the near post from a corner by ? the worlds best player, who he meets twice a season!!! Tart!
Douglas Griffin - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

France looking like one of the teams of the tournament so far. Talent all over the field.
john arran - on 20 Jun 2014
England were unlucky. For the first time in many years they seemed to have the right approach in terms of positive play and conviction. Sadly they just weren't up to it; they made a few schoolboy errors at the back and didn't convert the many chances they made up front. Disappointing of course but not nearly as bad as in previous years when they'd lost before they'd even started simply by playing too defensively.

Lusk - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Skol:

I really hope Costa Rica arse whup England next week! :-)
Skol on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:

> I really hope Costa Rica arse whup England next week! :-)

Me too:) I want salt rubbed into those egotistical wounds. Will the 'real England' turn up ? Doubt it. I bet they're planning a 3 week break on an island somewhere to recover before the hardship of a premier league season earning several million a year. As I've said above, they don't represent my England / Britain.
Will they return with shame or bruised egos?
Lusk - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Skol:

"Will they return with shame or bruised egos?"

As long as we're not subjected to anymore of that Gerrard's whining!
I'm sure that ball come off his head for the second goal.
Yet another fatal back pass!!!
(me being a Manc, it's hilarious)
slinky wizard - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:

> I really hope Costa Rica arse whup England next week! :-)

Would have thought it will be the Costa B team as they will prob rest key players as their into
the play off. Stil prob beat England though.
Denni on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> France looking like one of the teams of the tournament so far. Talent all over the field.

Indeed, Allez les Bleus.
Half French :0)
Chris the Tall - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Could this be the greatest comeback ever?
Douglas Griffin - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Denni:

> Indeed, Allez les Bleus.
> Half French :0)

As is our household. :-)
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

I've decided to be half Dutch...
coinneach - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

The whole England team have decided to be half arsed.
Tony the Blade on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

We're half Irish in our gaff, therefore I will never ever support the French, and boy do the Irish know how to bare a grudge... Oliver Cromwell, William of Orange, Thierry Henry ;-)
andymac - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Cashley Cole may have a smug grin over all this.

I would have had him at left back.

England might still be in the World Cup if had started.
Douglas Griffin - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Tony the Blade:

Loved that bit in one of the opening games when after a dodgy refereeing decision, one of the panel asked Henry at half-time if he'd ever benefited from a handball.

He looked very sheepish...
Post edited at 22:20
Tony the Blade on 20 Jun 2014
Skol on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:
> "Will they return with shame or bruised egos?"

> As long as we're not subjected to anymore of that Gerrard's whining!

> I'm sure that ball come off his head for the second goal.

> Yet another fatal back pass!!!

> (me being a Manc, it's hilarious)
Gift me a goal and I will play your choice of songs at the World Cup ball:)

Fcuk copocobanana beach, Gerrard will be at Tal- a Cray. It's a quaint north walian beach famed for dog walking! Or was it dogging?
Post edited at 22:30
Enty - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Money has ruined the English game.
Sorry Ian, i respect your footballing knowledge but Chris Waddle nailed it on Five live today.
We'll never learn. Until there's a cap on foriegn players in the EPL our national team will always be shit. It's pretty simple really.

E
Lusk - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to Skol:

I can foresee IanRUK coming back with England are a young team.
So are France, same age. Four years ago the French self destructed, and have now progressed to the next round in less than one and a half matches!
winhill - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to andymac:

> Cashley Cole may have a smug grin over all this.

> I would have had him at left back.

> England might still be in the World Cup if had started.

You mean Ashley Cole the left back who got replaced at Chelsea by a right back who got knocked out of the World Cup even quicker than England?
andymac - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

> You mean Ashley Cole the left back who got replaced at Chelsea by a right back who got knocked out of the World Cup even quicker than England?

Aye.

Him.
coinneach - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to andymac:

Aye, and if my auntie had baws she'd be my uncle

andymac - on 20 Jun 2014
In reply to coinneach:

> Aye, and if my auntie had baws she'd be my uncle

Appears That Paul 'The Voice of Football' Scholes thinks similar.

The Ginger Prince shoots from the hip and speaks the truth.

Watch out Joey Barton ,

Anyway ,Baines did not cut the mustard.
Skyfall - on 21 Jun 2014
Now that England are out, can the Beeb please start showing all the Brazilian girls in string bikinis on the beaches? The world cup's not really lived up to expectations, so far.....
Lusk - on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

It'll be better than looking at the English tits in white shirts!
IainRUK - on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to john arran:
> England were unlucky. For the first time in many years they seemed to have the right approach in terms of positive play and conviction. Sadly they just weren't up to it; they made a few schoolboy errors at the back and didn't convert the many chances they made up front. Disappointing of course but not nearly as bad as in previous years when they'd lost before they'd even started simply by playing too defensively.

spot on… yes things went wrong, but this was much much better… we need this approach

re lack of english.. lets wait, we have new rules re home grown players, but financially it makes sense, look at saints.. lets wait 5 years..

I think scholes speaks sense, fergie always said when he speaks everyone should shut up.. as he says in 10 words what others say in 1000's.. I'm not sure on Rooney.. his days may be over.. RVP's defence suggests LVG thinks otherwise…

We've made huge strides, got rid of dead wood.. lets not kill this team before they got going, much of this team came in late. Yes we should have qualified.. but we do have a much more attacking fluid team than in recent years…

And this is the first english team since the early days of Eriksson that I enjoy watching.. before that it was Hoddle than 96.. almost 20 years ago..
Post edited at 02:48
IainRUK - on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to Indy:

> At the group stages yes.

Yes what was the reaction to the draw.. he cut his throat…

We are ranked 11th.. Italy 9th? Uruguay 6th? CR 33?

We were the third ranked team, rightly so..

I still think us and italy should have progressed but there wasn't that much wrong in this squad.. we just f*cked up with stupid errors.. blaming rooney's 5'10 and not 5'11 is crazy english press talk…

He leapt like a sodding salmon to make that ball.. it beat a defender much taller.. and fatto in the mail called it 'a sitter'…. the press are horrible horrible people…
Simon - on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Yes what was the reaction to the draw.. he cut his throat…

> the press are horrible horrible people…


I would like to take on half of these so so called 'experts' on a footy pitch to see them put into practice their wisdom where it counts.

I'd be happy to have 'a chat' (as we used to call it) with them at right back for 90 minutes...
Mike Stretford - on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to Enty:

> We'll never learn. Until there's a cap on foriegn players in the EPL our national team will always be shit. It's pretty simple really.

There really isn't any sense to this. Our national side has had one golden tournament on home soil, other than that we've been pretty average, that's well before the influx of foreign players. To have a decent team you don't need a set of players who play together regularly in the domestic league for top clubs, just look at Costa Rica this time.

mbh - on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:
Agree. There's no one thing hat will sort it, but one factor that might help is the flip side of what Enty suggests. Don't stop the foreigners coming here in such numbers, but enable and encourage more of our own players to get out there and play at the top level in other leagues.

ps "Stretford" - that's a real Mancunian name, surely?
Post edited at 13:05
Glyno - on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to Enty:

>
> We'll never learn. Until there's a cap on foriegn players in the EPL our national team will always be shit. It's pretty simple really.

>

Though I agree to a point, I also remember before the influx of foreign players (the 70's and 80's) where we frequently failed to even qualify for world cup finals! What was our excuse then?

winhill - on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to andymac:

> Anyway ,Baines did not cut the mustard.

Baines didn't excel but he's smashed Cole in the stats the last 2 seasons, both defensively and (really smashed him) in attacking play.

He was unlucky in the Italy game, his first in the world cup (and probably his only world cup) to find himself up against Rooney, unsettled by arguments and nothing restrains a defender from getting forwards than knowing you're not covered.

Neither Hodgson or Neville explained which one was off message, or why they moved Rooney, or why they started Rooney out there or why they moved him to the right rather than the centre. But it doesn't look like the problem was Baines.

Once the Italians started to attack the left and not the right you can only adjust to suit, if Rooney starts giving people grief then that ain't happening. If you had to attack either Johnson or Baines you'd pressurise Johnson every time but Johnson spent most time up against the tame left back.

It's a shame for Baines because now it would be best to blood Shaw and leave him out of the Costa Rica game.
Douglas Griffin - on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Clive Tyldesley excelled himself just now: "A lot of the Iranian players have their Christian names on their shirts."
Horse on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Even by his standards that is a gem.
winhill - on 21 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

ghana comeback to 2-1 against the germans, great stuff.
elsewhere on 22 Jun 2014
Will I be able to buy my crusader outfit in Qatar or should I take it with me?

BnB - on 22 Jun 2014
In reply to elsewhere:

> Will I be able to buy my crusader outfit in Qatar or should I take it with me?

What makes you think you'll need it? England probably won't qualify!
Indy - on 22 Jun 2014
In reply to elsewhere:

> Will I be able to buy my crusader outfit in Qatar or should I take it with me?

You honestly believe that the World Cup will be in Qatar? My money will be on them being stripped of it because of the bribery issues which will also get FIFA out of the hole its in regarding playing football in the Qatar summer heat etc
winhill - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Lineker explains the problem in the Italy game but another BBC interview with Roy fails to ask the question

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27960776

Lineker spreads a bit of the blame for not responding to Italy Gerrard's way, which is a fair point about leadership, inspirational not organisational.
BnB - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

Lineker's a hopeless anchorman but I found this analysis unusually perceptive. Made me wonder what a difference someone like Tony Adams (or more pertinently, Terry) would have made to the team, and not just because he could defend!
lummox - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Clive Tyldsley..where to start ? He mighthave been the f*cktard opining about the Uruguayans being better adapted to the steamy conditions in Manaus ???
Mike Stretford - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to mbh:

> Agree. There's no one thing hat will sort it, but one factor that might help is the flip side of what Enty suggests. Don't stop the foreigners coming here in such numbers, but enable and encourage more of our own players to get out there and play at the top level in other leagues.

Which brings us the Gareth Bale! EPL didn't do him any harm, transformed himself from a good player to a world class player, though I wouldn't be surprised if not having the England player tag was helpful to him getting his head down and getting on with it.

> ps "Stretford" - that's a real Mancunian name, surely?

Yeah should be 'of Stretford', surname withheld for posting at work reasons.
Enty - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> Which brings us the Gareth Bale! EPL didn't do him any harm, transformed himself from a good player to a world class player, though I wouldn't be surprised if not having the England player tag was helpful to him getting his head down and getting on with it.

>

Good point Bale not having the choice.

Unlike some of his ex teammates:
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12040/9358287/world-cup-steven-gerrard-urges-harry-redknapp-...

Another reason why England will always be shit.

E
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Enty:

It's an interesting story. When it broke yesterday I was initially dissappointed but when I thought about it, unsuprised. It probably happens all the time. Wasn't Giggs always injured for Welsh friendlies? Scholes retired from international football young (at least he was upfront about not wanting to play). Bentley famously had no interest in playing for under 21s (and is probably a likely candidate for one of Rednapps players having no interest) Greaves asked not to be picked if he was only going to sit on the bench.

I suppose it's up to the player if they don't want anything to do with playing for their country. They should just come out with it and say it's not for them.

I also wonder if Rednapp is stirring the pot a bit here
Enty - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

> It's an interesting story. When it broke yesterday I was initially dissappointed but when I thought about it, unsuprised. It probably happens all the time. Wasn't Giggs always injured for Welsh friendlies? Scholes retired from international football young (at least he was upfront about not wanting to play). Bentley famously had no interest in playing for under 21s (and is probably a likely candidate for one of Rednapps players having no interest) Greaves asked not to be picked if he was only going to sit on the bench.

> I suppose it's up to the player if they don't want anything to do with playing for their country. They should just come out with it and say it's not for them.

> I also wonder if Rednapp is stirring the pot a bit here

Spot on - they could pick a team from the Championship and lower leagues from players who would play for free and they would do better than the current team.
Well they couldn't do any worse than Ghana, Costa Rica, Algeria etc etc etc

E
Douglas Griffin - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Enty:

> they could pick a team from the Championship and lower leagues

Scotland have been trying that for years and we've not got very far.
Mike Stretford - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Enty:
> Another reason why England will always be shit.

There's been some good England teams over the last 30 years, just not good enough to go all the way. This one is pretty average but they have lost to 2 good sides, each with world class players. This time round we didn't have the 'star' players who could get us out of trouble, nor did we have that well drilled team we've seen in other sides. A tough group but with a better manager we might be going into the last game with something to play for.
Post edited at 14:01
wynaptomos - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

> It's an interesting story. When it broke yesterday I was initially dissappointed but when I thought about it, unsuprised. It probably happens all the time. Wasn't Giggs always injured for Welsh friendlies?

He did have a period of missing a lot mostly due to hamstring injuries(probably a fair bit of pressure from Fergie too) and that reputation stuck to him. I wouldn't categorise him with what Redknapp is saying though - I always felt that Giggs gave 100% for the Wales team.
winhill - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> There's been some good England teams over the last 30 years, just not good enough to go all the way. This one is pretty average but they have lost to 2 good sides, each with world class players.

The Uruguayans are heavily over rated though, the FIFA stats just meaningless and they changed 50% of the outfield after the first game.

> This time round we didn't have the 'star' players who could get us out of trouble, nor did we have that well drilled team we've seen in other sides. A tough group but with a better manager we might be going into the last game with something to play for.

Yes, the Rooney situation was confused against Italy, it seems like no-one had forged a partnership with Sturridge, although that may have been because Hodgson was more worried about Pirlo and felt Sterling would harass him more than Rooney. Although the strike partnership was clearly lacking in the warm up games and scoring was a problem, it wasn't addressed head on.
Douglas Griffin - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

Interesting to look at the pre-tournament predictions:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27679577
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Good one by Lawrenson..

Costa Rica have upset our group.. none expected them to beat Uruguay and then to go on to beat Italy…

I thought getting out of the group would be tough…

the good thing is we have a very kind 2016 draw.. so we should qualify again and our world ranking shouldn't be too affected by the time we get to the next world cup draw..

We don't want to be in the position of Wales and Scotland where ranking is so poor qualification alone is a huge task.

The main issue is always to reach major tournaments and we have a good squad age to go for 2016 when we'll have a good number of players at their peak.. by then wilshire could well be our main man alongside Barkley.

We need to sort out our centre backs, since rio and Terry we've had nothing and chopped and changed too much..

I hope we stick with Hodgson, its been disappointing, but we've shown progression and a changing of the guard. I was suspicious when he took the position but I think he's done a decent job, even here I think we set up the team well, more attacking, much more enjoyable to watch, especially 2nd half agains uruguay..
Post edited at 15:39
winhill - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to BnB:

> Lineker's a hopeless anchorman but I found this analysis unusually perceptive.

He's Mr Beige but despite the wailing about the Press from some quarters (Neville especially shocking) the effort put in to understand the competition has been remarkably high and not jusyt Lineker's comments very measured.

He doesn't say who would play where in his 4-3-3 though, which is the money shot.
Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

God bless you Ian, you are a true and loyal England supporter - glass always half full?

> Costa Rica have upset our group.. none expected them to beat Uruguay and then to go on to beat Italy…

Costa Rica's performances have no bearing on England's or our position - played 2, lost 2, out of the world cup.

> I thought getting out of the group would be tough…

It always will be.

> the good thing is we have a very kind 2016 draw.. so we should qualify again and our world ranking shouldn't be too affected by the time we get to the next world cup draw..

And just how much of your own cash would you bet on this?

> I hope we stick with Hodgson, its been disappointing, but we've shown progression and a changing of the guard. I was suspicious when he took the position but I think he's done a decent job, even here I think we set up the team well, more attacking, much more enjoyable to watch, especially 2nd half agains uruguay..

Worse performance since 1954. Feck me, wouldn't we all love a job that considers that an achievement?

England have done nothing since 1966 (OK, one semi-final) and have become the masters of mediocrity.

It's always 'jam tomorrow' with England, but tomorrow never comes.

Our players are a bunch of over pampered, over paid, frightened of their own shadows under achievers when they put on an England shirt.

Give the England team one thing, they do a brilliant impression of rabbits caught in a trucks headlights.
Skyfall - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:
> Give the England team one thing, they do a brilliant impression of rabbits caught in a trucks headlights.

Albeit very sincere sounding rabbits.

I'm sick of hearing them say how gutted they are even if they do mean it. I can't believe the BBC has started repeating this on the news. Does that make anything better? I'd rather they admitted they were f*cking useless and see if the Beeb repeats that as well.
Post edited at 16:19
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:
I think the negativity of the country is a huge issue.. people wanted to see them fail. Look at lemmings post 'over paid prima donnas'.. I bet he had that typed up back in May...


> God bless you Ian, you are a true and loyal England supporter - glass always half full?

> Costa Rica's performances have no bearing on England's or our position - played 2, lost 2, out of the world cup.

Nonsense.. of course it does, other games change what results are needed.

> It always will be.

> And just how much of your own cash would you bet on this? Plenty..

> Worse performance since 1954. Feck me, wouldn't we all love a job that considers that an achievement?

I dont thin we've achieved.. worst performance.. god no, last time was far worse, we limped out. This time we attacked and played fairly well. Silly errors. have we come a long way since the last WC? I think so..

We're far more attractive to watch, we have started trying to play an attacking game, more fluid.. yes 2 bad results but we shouldn't finish the project.

> England have done nothing since 1966 (OK, one semi-final) and have become the masters of mediocrity.

> It's always 'jam tomorrow' with England, but tomorrow never comes.

> Our players are a bunch of over pampered, over paid, frightened of their own shadows under achievers when they put on an England shirt.

I disagree, 90.. 96.. we've also, under Errikson, been consistent latter rounds.. I said at the time we'd look back on those years fondly.. but Erikson set us up with a great centre half partnership.. well our back 5, Neville, Cole, Terry (then Sol before), Rio, Seaman.. very consistent, professional players which gave us a base.. we need that back.

We need a right back, the left is Baines and Shaw, centre halts need stability so thats a huge issue.. at 31, and with a poor record, I think Jags can be jettisoned, but we've got to see if Jones or Stones can step in as top class centre halfs.. I think Smalling will be a squad man..

The overpaid insult is just ignorance.. they get paid because people pay to watch them. As long as club makes money why shouldn't the players get that? Or who the fat kid who inherited daddy's money? You don't begrudge Hamilton, Murray, Woods, Pitt, James, Manning or the many 100's of sportsman/actors or musicians who earn comparable wages…


Just a lazy insult..

Re frightened of their own shadow.. again this is just the one reason we should not slate rooney.. him and barkley were the ones who got the ball and tried to make things happen.. Look at Rooneys run from the kick off when they scored.. he wasn't frightened.. others were possibly.. I think Baines was and got shocked into actually being the player he was.. But you think singling players out who actually stand up and be counted helps?

We go on and on about passion.. play for your shirt and all this bollox.. we'd rather see players dive into challenges rather than try to get on the ball, beat players, take chances.. we finally have an england team who tried that.. was it 13 chances on target?

We actually played well against Uruguay in the second half.. just panicked when we scored and made stupid errors yo don't expect from kids teams..

the way you lo want hodgson sacked, players kicked out… is just throwing the baby out.. we have progressed. Look at us against Algeria? This times yes we went out.. out of a group we'd have done well to qualify from, with two fairly decent performances but playing with some attacking fluidity for the first time in a long time..

> Give the England team one thing, they do a brilliant impression of rabbits caught in a trucks headlights.
Post edited at 16:36
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Skyfall:

> Albeit very sincere sounding rabbits.

> I'm sick of hearing them say how gutted they are even if they do mean it. I can't believe the BBC has started repeating this on the news. Does that make anything better? I'd rather they admitted they were f*cking useless and see if the Beeb repeats that as well.

I think they've said all they can, they are upset, but you want players to admit they had bad tournaments? Of course they won't.. that's just a hallmark of a top player.. most won't question themselves much, supreme confidence..

Rooney, Gerrard and probably Hart would actually have expected to win the world cup.. that's just a trait in top players. It was something Ferguson sought most when he signed a player.

I don't think we should slate them, if thats the way to get rid of this rabbit in the headlights issue then fair enough…

England haven't qualified from a table they were the 3rd ranked team in after 2 close games.. yes Costa Rica may well qualify but we've still gone for it.. we had a few bad periods in each game, which can be fixed.
tony on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> England haven't qualified from a table they were the 3rd ranked team in after 2 close games.. yes Costa Rica may well qualify but we've still gone for it.. we had a few bad periods in each game, which can be fixed.

But the same thing happens every tournament - people say England did alright (apart from South Africa) and things can be fixed. When are they going to be fixed?
Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> I think they've said all they can, they are upset, but you want players to admit they had bad tournaments? Of course they won't.. that's just a hallmark of a top player.. most won't question themselves much, supreme confidence..

I thought the hallmark of top players, was NOT losing every game?

> Rooney, Gerrard and probably Hart would actually have expected to win the world cup..

Really, is that FIFA 2014 on Playstation?

> I don't think we should slate them, if thats the way to get rid of this rabbit in the headlights issue then fair enough…

Maybe if they are made to feel shit - I mean really shit, not just vacuous 'for the media' appearing to feel shit, they might, just might, take their heads out of their collective arses, and do something about their performances.



Douglas Griffin - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Nonsense.. of course it does, other games change what results are needed.

Iain, make your mind up would you. When Costa Rica went 2-1 up against Uruguay you were saying that this was "potentially a great result for England".

Now you're suggesting that the other results in the group are at least partly to blame for England's early exit.
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to tony:

> But the same thing happens every tournament - people say England did alright (apart from South Africa) and things can be fixed. When are they going to be fixed?

I think they are being fixed.. slowly.

Watch SA again.. static.. old.. motionless.. boring..

This year: much younger squad, much more attacking, better football.

Still room to go, Wilshire needs to step up now, a few do, we have a lot of good young players, like Welbeck, who are no longer young enough not to perform consistently.

This was our youngest squad in almost 60 years.. clearly we have issues to solve but we've come a long way from SA.

Yes its disappointing, after SA it was clear we needed to rebuild, which we didn't, and now we have and I think we're on the right path..

IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> Iain, make your mind up would you. When Costa Rica went 2-1 up against Uruguay you were saying that this was "potentially a great result for England".

> Now you're suggesting that the other results in the group are at least partly to blame for England's early exit.

Actually no… I didn't say that. What I was saying is we're seeing this as a bad result as we'll likely finish bottom of the group.. because had we been 3rd, CR 4th and had narrowly gone out people would be less critical…

But hey you can twist words… this is about english football…
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:

> I thought the hallmark of top players, was NOT losing every game?

> Really, is that FIFA 2014 on Playstation?

> Maybe if they are made to feel shit - I mean really shit, not just vacuous 'for the media' appearing to feel shit, they might, just might, take their heads out of their collective arses, and do something about their performances.

Rubbish.. you don't win titles and CL titles without being class players.

Those players compete with the worlds best for their clubs.. to suggest that they are hugely overrated is nonsensical.

United reached 3 CL finals in 4 years with an english spine to the team, Carrick, Scholes, Rooney, Ferdinand, Neville, Brown..

Gerrard dominates games for Liverpool he can't for England, we've never had the right system, but to suddenly claim these guys just aren't that good just does not stand up to an scrutiny.. why they don't replicate their form for England is the issue..

Gerrard is finishing his career having never touched the same heights.. Scholes similarly finished without being as influential.. I think only Beckham and Ferdinand performed as they should..

Look at Carrick, barely any caps, squad player, yet the central pin in United's most successful team ever..

We have had the players, ad have them in the squad now.

I tink we are on a path now which may bring relative success.

But I suppose we have two options.. be negative and bitch on or support…
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tony on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> I think they are being fixed.. slowly.

> Watch SA again.. static.. old.. motionless.. boring..

> This year: much younger squad, much more attacking, better football.

I disagree. I think the fundamental problems are still in place, with nothing being done to address them - an inability to keep possession, which stems from poor decision-making and a coaching system which seems to value running around like a blue-arsed fly chasing the ball over the basic ability to be patient, play the right ball and not squander possession. Welbeck was being praised to the heavens before the last game for his tracking back - if his team-mates didn't give the ball away so much, he wouldn't have to be so good at it. It doesn't matter that England have been more attacking this time round - they give the ball away far too easily and make life far too easy for the opposition.
Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

This isn't about how they play for their clubs. Mind you, they get paid a lot more money by their clubs - now isn't that a funny coincidence?

The unarguable fact is, these 'top class' players, never produce 'top class' performances in an England shirt.

So when describing their performances in an England shirt, they are hugely overrated.

IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:

yeah thats the reason.. pay the £300 k a game and they'd be class…

Come on don't be such a muppet.. think for one second. How much is a WC win worth in Sponsorship deals??

Finances just are not a factor, not for one minute second..
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to tony:

i agree possession is an issue.. but we've still come along way..

I'm not sure we now value running around like an idiot… sadly the english fans are like those who post on here so some value passion… more than they should.

But we actually played with a much more attacking, fluid, passing team.. we still went forwards too much.. but thats also gerrards biggest fault.. he plays the hail mary ball way way too often.

Yes they made mistakes, its why we are going home… are we much better than we were? yes.. we're much younger, much more attractive, we still dominated possession against Uruguay, 62% I think was the figure.. thats against a team ranked 6th in the world…

Pretty gob smacked by the pessimism on here.. obviously the Scots will be loving it but I expect more from England fans.. its like people moaning about players playing with fear.. then lynching rooney..
Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:


> Come on don't be such a muppet.. think for one second. How much is a WC win worth in Sponsorship deals??

They already make millions out of sponsorship deals, whats the point of putting in more effort to try and win?

Anyway, poor Stevie Gerrard is pooped and needs a holiday, the poor overworked little lamb, and Wayne Rooney needs to get his hair weave checked out, and Joe Harte is getting fed up with all this goalkeeping lark messing his hair up, so it's just as well we got knocked out.
Ramblin dave - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:

> This isn't about how they play for their clubs.

It sort of is, though. If the England squad was all B-teamers from championship sides then we'd be asking why the British system is incapable of producing players who are any use to anyone at all. As it is, we (also) have to ask what's going wrong to make a bunch of players who can play key roles for world-class clubs suddenly start playing Sunday League football when they're playing for the national team. If we just blame "massively overrated" players then we never deal with that issue.
andymac - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to ianRUk

> Pretty gob smacked by the pessimism on here.. obviously the Scots will be loving it but I expect more from England fans.

The scots aren't like that.

Well ,maybe just a little bit;-)

It's our birthright .

It's the Welsh, the Antipodeans,and probably the rest of the English speaking world who are probably enjoying the fallout.
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Ramblin dave:

> If we just blame "massively overrated" players then we never deal with that issue.

Exactly.. Wenger doesn't give two hoots for english football.. just his arsenal team, if he thinks wiltshire is class, he is..

We've had a long stream of class players produce for their club yet not for England.. the money argument is just lazy as the WC is one way to secure a huge contract.. how many players have had that one world cup, then signed big, Poborsky was a typical example, Diouf for Liverpool..

These players are winners. Fergie used to have huge trouble keeping the fights in united training out of the press, even a 5-a-side was a blood bath the players wanted to win so much.. to be a top athlete you are not money driven, you are driven by a will to win..

Rooney ran his heart out this WC and he's the highest paid member in the squad.

We've obviously failed to come up with a system, but I think we're getting there under Hodgson, it wasn't the apathetic static display under Capello. I think Rooney should have played 10 against Italy as Sterling is still too inconsistent, hence his absences from England, and Welbeck needs to step up and not just put in honest displays, he needs to be braver.

In the UK we think Bravery is Terry Butcher, when its Ronaldo.. getting on the ball and wanting to beat the man, wanting to count.. his ball last night, last minute and he does that.. when he's clearly only half fit.

Neville wrote an article last year for british parents to get their kids and take them down to OT to watch Scholes.. as it was his final few games and kids need to be educated on how to play.. instead we have millions of kids, sat watching TV, beer bellied father with a can of carling in his hand shouting at the english game about lack of passion.. over paid prima dona's.. and we get more and more generations of huff and puff players… players too scared to get on the ball and actually play football..

Its why I want foreigners in our game, they teach us to play football the right way.. Lampard will have learnt from those greats at Chelsea, Gerrard from Alonso, Macherano, Rooney from Scholes, Keane..

"They already make millions out of sponsorship deals, whats the point of putting in more effort to try and win?"

This statement says a lot about you as a person…. seriously? why win? I can only guess you've not played sport to a high level, the money factor is almost immaterial at the crunch times.. train with top players, watch them in training, just watch their will to win.

Fergie always said Keane was often horrid to be around as anything from a team quiz to a game of cards he had to win..

Douglas Griffin - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Fergie always said Keane was often horrid to be around as anything from a team quiz to a game of cards he had to win..

Hmmm. Remind you of anyone?
Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Exactly.. Wenger doesn't give two hoots for english football.. just his arsenal team, if he thinks wiltshire is class, he is..

> We've had a long stream of class players produce for their club yet not for England..

You said it.

> These players are winners.

Just not in an England shirt

> Rooney ran his heart out this WC

We could get a border collie to run his heart out for a damn site less.

> We've obviously failed to come up with a system,

Isn't that what a manager is there to do?

> Its why I want foreigners in our game, they teach us to play football the right way.. Lampard will have learnt from those greats at Chelsea, Gerrard from Alonso, Macherano, Rooney from Scholes, Keane..

Jeez, aren't there already enough to learn from, I thought this about football, not the flamenco/Samaba/Paso Doblay.

> This statement says a lot about you as a person…. seriously? why win? I can only guess you've not played sport to a high level,

Really, why? And glad you used the word 'guess' here,as that's all it is.

the money factor is almost immaterial at the crunch times.. train with top players, watch them in training, just watch their will to win.

That is just naive bollocks. If they put as much effort and passion into their football for England, as they do negotiating their contracts, they might play better. If it was purely about winning, they wouldn't be interested in all their advertising contracts.


Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Out of curiosity, are you being paid by the FA for all this public arse licking, or do you actually believe it?

In which case you're in for a lifetime of disappointment.

You can analyse each minute of every match, but the only thing that matters is the end result, and winning. That is the measure of really great sportsmen, and England always fall short.


IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> Hmmm. Remind you of anyone?

Aye yeah.. my mates laugh at me for it.. they reckon I'm only good at ultra's because I wanted to win and would just keep running until I was the last one standing.. I'd play next goal the winner for hours until I eventually won…

But I wanted to win to win.. I'd wear the opposition kit and want to win just as much, my brother and I would kick seven shades of shite out of each other at any game we played.. squash.. football..





IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:

> Out of curiosity, are you being paid by the FA for all this public arse licking, or do you actually believe it?

> In which case you're in for a lifetime of disappointment.

> You can analyse each minute of every match, but the only thing that matters is the end result, and winning. That is the measure of really great sportsmen, and England always fall short.

Maybe.. but I've also worn GB kit.. won a world championship.. I've had more than my fair share of disappointments.. and when that happens you look at what worked, what didn't and replan and move on.. you don't throw it all away and start again.. You take the positives and rebuild on them.

Of course England will probably never win a world cup.. but we're better than we were in 2010.. and in 2018 I think we'll be better than we are now. That's how you progress, that was how th Germans did.

And English players have competed and won at the highest level. I can't seriously even consider that Rooney is motivated by how much he can win money wise if he wins the world cup.. it would be 100% priceless… there is no value on that moment.


IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:

> > That is just naive bollocks. If they put as much effort and passion into their football for England, as they do negotiating their contracts, they might play better. If it was purely about winning, they wouldn't be interested in all their advertising contracts.

The worst comment on the whole thread…

This is the problem with british sport.. the fact that you seriously think for one moment that it was due to lack of effort…

They ran and ran, as Tony said they gave away possession, didn't read the game, Jagielka would be shot by Martinez for not following Suarez.. but he's done that all season for Everton…

This is why England are always playing catch up.. we have a bad world cup and we get this passion bollox thrown out by people like you.. enough bleat on and the kids believe it.. and they'd rather run fast and walk off a pitch tired than keep possession and play good football..

We do need to take club form into the international game. The elephant in the room was Gerrard suddenly being a class holding midfielder, he'd come from a team who leaked goals so badly they lost the title on it… but now I think we'll move on without him and create a midfield which is more balanced, does keep possession. I'm not convinced by Lallana at all, Barkley and Wiltshire will be the ones to build on.. I hope he plays next game.

Hodgson should be given one more championship.. and then bring in a young guy or pass it on. I just can't see Rodgers leaving Liverpool for it.. who else? Martinez? Doubt he'd go? Redknapp? No chance would the FA go with him now..
Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Of course England will probably never win a world cup..

We won't until there is a fundamental change in approach.

but we're better than we were in 2010..

That's a rather low benchmark isn't it?

> And English players have competed and won at the highest level.

Of course they have, no one is saying that. But when it comes to the England WC squad, apart from one semi final, we haven't performed since 1966.

You can argue the technicalities of this WC performance, but it is just the latest in endless decades of England being serial under achievers at football.
Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> This is the problem with british sport.. the fact that you seriously think for one moment that it was due to lack of effort…

Effort without a result. They're grown professional millionaire footballers, not an amateur primary school.

> They ran and ran, as Tony said they gave away possession, didn't read the game, Jagielka would be shot by Martinez for not following Suarez.. but he's done that all season for Everton…

What he does at club level is irrelevant if he can't do it at national level.

> This is why England are always playing catch up.. we have a bad world cup and we get this passion bollox thrown out by people like you..

Every WC we play in is a bad one FFS. Take the blinkers off.

> We do need to take club form into the international game. The elephant in the room was Gerrard suddenly being a class holding midfielder, he'd come from a team who leaked goals so badly they lost the title on it… but now I think we'll move on without him.

There was a whole herd of elephant's in the room - always is.

Hodgson should be given one more championship.

To prove he's worth his £4 million a year salary?
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:

So who do you replace him with? We've made good strides.. a MUCH younger squad, they play for him..

Obviously we have clear issues which we can target..

Or we carry on and get rid? Then what? who else?

Pay him out of his contract? another 8 million gone..

Under Capello we didn't progress. We are much younger, a lot of dead wood has gone, Lampard will now go, Rooney has 1 more championship in him at least, United think so anyway, Gerrard is debatable.. he may just..

Apart from that we have a very young squad, we need stable centre backs, but then the rest is there.. Wiltshire, Barkley, Jones, Welbeck, Sturridge, Sterling, Stones, Shaw, Cahill, Hart, Rooney..

Under Hodgson we're a better team, we've had a bad tournament after a good qualifying, lets see how he goes.
I can eat 50 eggs - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

You're right...we need to give Hodgeson one more tournament...I reckon by the 2016 Euros we might've developed into a decent squad. Personally I think it's a mistake to look for a manager who is going to win the world cup with England...it's going to be long time before that happens so let's just concentrate on playing good attacking football.
Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> So who do you replace him with? We've made good strides.. a MUCH younger squad, they play for him..

Could you please explain to me what those strides are? It's our worst performance in a WC since 1954, so what advance and strides have we made - absolutely none, we have in fact gone backwards - if that was actually possible FFS.

> Pay him out of his contract? another 8 million gone..

What are we doing paying a B-lister like Hodgson £4million a year for in the first place?

> Under Capello didn't we at least progress out of the group stage?.

Apart from that we have a very young squad, we need stable centre backs, but then the rest is there.. Wiltshire, Barkley, Jones, Welbeck, Sturridge, Sterling, Stones, Shaw, Cahill, Hart, Rooney..

> Under Hodgson we're a better team.

By what criteria.

I really do give up.

prog99 on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Back on topic... well thats shut the locals up! Good game so far.
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:

In 2010 we created nothing.. we dominated possession against Uruguay, we created chances to win…

Bullshit we haven't gone backwards, we had 2 bad results but not bad performances in a tough group against teams ranked higher, get a grip man..

We're a much better team in terms of footballing ability, fluidity, average age..
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Mike_Watson_99:

Not anymore…

Watching Croatia.. the look the better team at the moment.
Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> In 2010 we created nothing.. we dominated possession against Uruguay, we created chances to win…

But we lost both bloody matches!!!

> Bullshit we haven't gone backwards, we had 2 bad results but not bad performances in a tough group against teams ranked higher, get a grip man..

Two bad results out of two. You're obviously on planet Clanger along with the rest of the England squad.

> We're a much better team in terms of footballing ability, fluidity, average age..

Have you thought of checking into rehab, because you're obviously on something to be defending England like this.

IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:
> But we lost both bloody matches!!!

> Two bad results out of two. You're obviously on planet Clanger along with the rest of the England squad.

> Have you thought of checking into rehab, because you're obviously on something to be defending England like this.


Wow serriously? Jesus I didn't realise that, I thought we drew? Are you sure…

Yes we lost 2 games.. so throw away 4 years of progress, spent 8 million sacking a guy? And then what?

You've stilll not said who you would bring in.. just typical British moaner.. all destructive criticism? So go on how does it change?

Look one of us posts anonymously..bit of a soft lad mouthing off..

I've said things need to change, but we don;t need to throw the baby out of the pram for the sake of 2 close losses..

The problem is people like you thinking we have some god given right to be in the last 8.. then sacking the moment we suffer a set back.. pathetic.. and the problem is I'd say there is a 99% you've never competed to a decent level, yet spout on and on about how elite athletes are motivated by money… disgusting attitude..

You sit there with your carling mouthing off..

If we sack hodgson it will be a disgrace.. the guy who sacks him will be the guy who did the cut throat gesture when the draw was made.. he knew damn well it would be tough going. I'm immeasurably happier with our performance in 2014 compared to 2010..
Post edited at 21:56
Greenbanks - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

On a more serious topic, who's had the worst World Cup mohican?
The Croatian lad today or Meireles of Portugal? These two have to be in the final...surely?
Goucho on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Wow serriously? Jesus I didn't realise that, I thought we drew? Are you sure…

I am, but I'm not so sure about you?

> Yes we lost 2 games.. so throw away 4 years of progress, spent 8 million sacking a guy? And then what?

4 years, and we still couldn't get out of the group stages? Wow, that's a good return on investment.

> You've stilll not said who you would bring in.. just typical British moaner.. all destructive criticism? So go on how does it change?

That's what you pay a manager £4 million quid a year to sort out!

> Look one of us posts anonymously..bit of a soft lad mouthing off..

I've been called many things, but soft ain't one of them big man.

> The problem is people like you thinking we have some god given right to be in the last 8..

No, but getting out of the group stages when we're ranked 10 in the world, shouldn't be to big an ask.

then sacking the moment we suffer a set back..

Yeah, it's called delivering a result, and earning your big fat pay packet.

pathetic.. and the problem is I'd say there is a 99% you've never competed to a decent level,

What a wonderful piece of uninformed arrogance.

> You sit there with your carling mouthing off..

It's actually a rather nice bottle of Domaine de la Vieille Julienne Chateauneuf du Pape

IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:

This was our best first XI under Capello 4 years ago…

GK 12 Robert Green SHITE
RB 2 Glen Johnson STILL IN
CB 6 John Terry TOO OLD
CB 20 Ledley King TOO OLD Substituted off 46'
LB 3 Ashley Cole TOO OLD
RM 7 Aaron Lennon SHITE
CM 8 Frank Lampard TOO OLD
CM 4 Steven Gerrard (c) Booked 61' TOO OLD NOW
LM 16 James Milner Booked 26' Substituted off 31' HONEST WORK MAN LIKE
SS 10 Wayne Rooney STILL PLAYING
CF 21 Emile Heskey TOO OLD
Substitutions:
MF 17 Shaun Wright-Phillips SHITE
DF 18 Jamie Carragher TOO OLD
FW 9 Peter Crouch TOO OLD
Manager:
Italy Fabio Capello

Under Hodgson,

HART (CLASS), BAINES (CLASS), JOHNSON (??), JAGS (TOO OLD NOW), CAHILL (GOOD PLAYER)

GERRARD (TOO OLD) HENDERSON (IDEAL AGE) ROONEY (IDEAL AGE), WELBECK (IDEAL AGE),

STURRIDGE (IDEAL AGE), STERLING (IDEAL AGE)

SUBS: LALLANA (IDEAL AGE), BARKLEY (IDEAL AGE), LAMBERT (TOO OLD)

Last time we turned to 30+ year olds.. and went out.. this time we bloodied one of our youngest ever squads and put in two solid performances, silly errors, but with a lot to build on..

Some people are naturally just moaners.. some actually support their team..
IainRUK - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:

Nice reply.. actually total lack of any constructive views.. just negativity… well done.. keep drinking the wine I'm off for run number 2…
winhill - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Lampard and Milner get a consolation appearance tomorrow, difficult game for Lampard, you'd expect.

Shame about The Ox, he needs the experience and should have got a game already, ideally.
winhill - on 23 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:


> This was our best first XI under Capello 4 years ago…

So you're saying Capello did better with worse players?
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tony on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:
> Last time we turned to 30+ year olds.. and went out.. this time we bloodied one of our youngest ever squads and put in two solid performances, silly errors, but with a lot to build on..

This time we went out, just the same. Saying people are too old or too young misses the point in that if they can't deliver, it doesn't matter what age they are. They didn't deliver.
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to tony:

no, but these can improve and we have a much younger second string, look at the CR line up..
Mike Stretford - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Goucho:

> No, but getting out of the group stages when we're ranked 10 in the world, shouldn't be to big an ask.

It is when 2 of the other teams are ranked higher! (though I agree with Winhill the ranking system is flawed..... but Italy and Uruguay are still good sides).

You and Iain will never agree but the real picture is somewhere in the middle. England haven't been consistently shit, 2002 was a decent campaign. This time has been poor, we should still be in it with one game to go.... I think the manager is out of his depth but we now seem stuck on an English manager, so there you go.
Douglas Griffin - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

A genuine "WTF??":

Ian Wright on the controversy surrounding Harry Redknapp's allegations:
"The next young player who says he does not want to play for England should be ordered to ring the parents of a soldier who has died serving his country in Afghanistan and tell them his reasons."
Mike Stretford - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> Ian Wright on the controversy surrounding Harry Redknapp's allegations:

> "The next young player who says he does not want to play for England should be ordered to ring the parents of a soldier who has died serving his country in Afghanistan and tell them his reasons."

Yeah I saw that at lunch time.... in the same copy Tony Parsons tries to out do him in the talking b*llocks stakes but doesn't quite manage it.
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:

I don't think we are stuck on an english manager.. it's preferable but right now there is none in contention.. who would take this job?

I was asking my mates, of 10 or 15 on the email chain, not one thought Hodgson should go as we are showing progression.

He's 60+, we should be planning to hand over after 2016, Neville is supposedly in the running which sounds good as he clearly knows his football but his lack of managing experience is a concern.

The ranking system is as good as anything ranking system can be, there's no ideal way. I think in our group it was fairly accurate, England NEVER beat the big teams, so we're never going to be ranked above 6th or so, after '96 we hit 4th almost 20 years ago.. and I think before this tournament we were down in 11th, briefly 10th, Italy 9th Uruguay 6th, now 7th and have been ranked 5th-7th almost constantly over the last 5 years.. and you could see why the other night. They are cuter than us, knew how to strange the game, gamesmanship, they should have had 10 men from two very cynical fouls, but they know how to play the game to win and so have done well at various tournaments.

It would be a pretty ignorant fan who honestly, hand on heart, suggests England should be ranked higher than 3rd in our group.. Had we played CR first, beaten them, then lost two close games and gone out on that late goal we'd not see Hodgson facing calls to be sacked...

England haven't been consistently shit.. but Groucho is a typical england fan (or Scot who seem to think SImilar) that anything other than the trophy is failure.. under Eriksson we were consistently latter rounds.. we were poor under Capello, and worse poor to watch..

We asked Woy to come in and clear the dead wood, bring in youth, play more attractive football and rebuild… is he doing that? Yes.. clearly it's not been perfect but we are showing a clear progression, youth is being given a chance, the first XI is no longer automatically picked, which caused staleness under Sven, we've got much more youth around the squad.. I'm hoping we're past the days when if we have an emergency we go to a guy about to retire.. like King or Carragher, and put faith in the youth.

I think we could do a lot worse than turn to the class of 96 as I think they will be squeezed out at United or VG and pass on to Neville, Scholes, Butt after 2016..
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> A genuine "WTF??":

> Ian Wright on the controversy surrounding Harry Redknapp's allegations:

> "The next young player who says he does not want to play for England should be ordered to ring the parents of a soldier who has died serving his country in Afghanistan and tell them his reasons."

I don't get the uproar about what Harry said..

Everyone knew Capello was not well liked at all, the players didn't enjoy being away and he rarely called on squad players, players would be called up and have no chance of playing and be locked away in their room and treated like kids…

You can't blame the squad players for thinking sod it, I'm going to see the kids for a week..

He didn't have the squad. You get the impression the England players actually enjoy life under Hodgson.
winhill - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> and I think before this tournament we were down in 11th, briefly 10th, Italy 9th Uruguay 6th, now 7th

Finally checked it, huh but these games haven't been counted yet, so they were 7th after their last match, against northern ireland.

Uruguay down to 7th because of Switzerland, and who wouldn't mind meeting Switzerland in the group stages?

When they change 50% of the players how does the ranking system help?

60% of the ranking points are off their 2 games this year.

Which players that were left played in which ranking games to get them there?
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

The funny thing about that story for me was the comments on the Guardian website below the story. So many people from the left(?) with a problem with patriotism, England, flags, royal families and anthem singing.
Mike Stretford - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:


> When they change 50% of the players how does the ranking system help?

They've got the same manager... they've been a good side under Tabarez.
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:

And a similar pool of players.. so if new people come in they are probably pretty decent. As it was Uruguay were pretty much back to a typical team with their main guys present.

But regardless it would take a brave man to say England should have qualified from that group.. they have hard, experienced, cynical players with what? 150-200 million euro's worth of talent up front..

The good thing about all this is Suarez looks like he'll be off.. he seems to be on the attack and engineering a move.. attacking the English press, who are generally shite, is normally fair enough but when its you get abuse for biting a player and using racist insults 8 times on a player its often pretty much deserved…

A class player, I'd take him at United in a second, but he's an odious little shite.
Mike Stretford - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> who would take this job?

Well exactly, that's the problem. For that reason I wouldn't sack him.
winhill - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> They've got the same manager... they've been a good side under Tabarez.

So have England, I don't think anyone would say England were the same after 50% changes, would they?

Forlan, Gargano and Stuani stand out as obvious casualties. Lugano, the captain, was injured but played for the mighty West Bromwich Albion.
Mike Stretford - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:
The point is, it's fair to assume a coach that has won the Copa Americas and got to the last 4 of the world cup in recent years will make effective changes.
Post edited at 16:18
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:
Late challenge by Sterling.. he was lucky there.

Why hasn't Hodgson started Sturridge and Rooney together.. Those two are probably our two main guys for the next 2 years but they have barely played together.. they need regular games as a partnership.

Also surprised with Milner.. and then taking lallana off for Sterling.. I'd play younger players now.


Suarez.. bitey bitey...
Post edited at 18:39
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:

Godin.. the man who should have been sent off against England just sent Uruguay through.. after Suarez should have been sent off for biting..
Lusk - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Why didn't I watch Italy!?
Dull, dull, dull, yet again.
Mike Stretford - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:

Just got home and switched straight to ITV 4!
elsewhere on 24 Jun 2014
A last, a point!

Lusk - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to elsewhere:

I deserve to be bitten.
Enty - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Unbelievable!

E
I like climbing - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:

Very dull. Prandelli resigned as soon as Italy were out. Hodgson should do the same. I keep seeing low profile players in other teams who play exciting football. It's purely down to the manager. He's had 2 competitions and failed.

I want to get a hard on when I watch England and that is not happening.
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

> Very dull. Prandelli resigned as soon as Italy were out. Hodgson should do the same. I keep seeing low profile players in other teams who play exciting football. It's purely down to the manager. He's had 2 competitions and failed.

> I want to get a hard on when I watch England and that is not happening.

Hes had one effectively.. the last one he took over just before, he took over 4 weeks before it started.
I like climbing - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Hes had one effectively.. the last one he took over just before, he took over 4 weeks before it started.

I know 4 weeks is really short but we've all seen some incoming managers having an immediate effect sometimes and he didn't do that. I'm not saying he's a bad manager just that he's had a go twice now, failed and should go somewhere else. He did well at Fulham and great with Switzerland so there will be another team that he can excel with.
As for England, I'd love to see a manager pick a couple of unsung players who would make the whole team tick - and someone who can do much better tactically.

It's just a shame Cole and Terry weren't there - we all know why but if we had those 2 and Cahill plus someone to replace Jagielka we might have done better.
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

> I know 4 weeks is really short but we've all seen some incoming managers having an immediate effect sometimes and he didn't do that. I'm not saying he's a bad manager just that he's had a go twice now, failed and should go somewhere else. He did well at Fulham and great with Switzerland so there will be another team that he can excel with.

> As for England, I'd love to see a manager pick a couple of unsung players who would make the whole team tick - and someone who can do much better tactically.

> It's just a shame Cole and Terry weren't there - we all know why but if we had those 2 and Cahill plus someone to replace Jagielka we might have done better.

But he's done that.. he's brought in Barkley and Lallana, Wilshire.. Baines.. he's rung the changes, this team is almost unrecognisable from the squad he took over..

I rate Cole, but had he selected him over Baines there would have been uproar as Cole has been kept out of chelsea by a right back..

WHo 'unfancied' wise would you have in the squad?
I like climbing - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Good point about overhauling the squad, I still think his tactics weren't smart enough. And I can see the reasons for keeping him.

I'm trying to think about which unfancied players could be brought in - Huddlestone doesn't give the ball away much - maybe him ?
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

No, but I think he's a lesser version of Carrick.. The irony is United signed Carrick after a dominant display in 2006, and he's barely had a luck in since and this was his last chance.

I'd like to see players get more of a run in, Wiltshire in the middle.. let Rooney and Sturridge have time to form a partnership.. pick a defensive partnership. My main issue is I don't think Hodgson yet knows his starting IX, and even when he does he doesn't know their set positions..

Up front we've tried Rooney, Sturridge, Crouch, Heskey, Defore, Walcott, Welbeck, Carol, Lambert.. I think its time we just said Sturridge and Rooney are our two, lets just give them time..

I really think a fairly set back 5 is pretty essential.

Ferguson was actually THE tinker man, but he rarely changed his spine.. or much on the spine, he kept that stable and familiar.
winhill - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

> It's just a shame Cole and Terry weren't there - we all know why but if we had those 2 and Cahill plus someone to replace Jagielka we might have done better.

er, surely you just replaced Jagielka with Terry? Are you playing 3 at the back plus wings backs or something?

Cole's been well overtaken by Baines, he wouldn't have helped, except that Rooney might have listened t oCole where he didn't with Baines.

If Cole was rated one of the best left backs in the world, when did he lose it? If it was recently, last 2-3 years then Baines is now one of the best left backs in the world.
Lusk - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

> I want to get a hard on when I watch England and that is not happening.

Hell knows what you're like with your Mrs then?! :-)

I don't believe that IanRUK is some kind of mollusc researcher, he's an FA stooge.
I like climbing - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> No, but I think he's a lesser version of Carrick.. The irony is United signed Carrick after a dominant display in 2006, and he's barely had a luck in since and this was his last chance.

I'm a big Carrick fan and you may be right.

> I'd like to see players get more of a run in, Wiltshire in the middle.. let Rooney and Sturridge have time to form a partnership.. pick a defensive partnership. My main issue is I don't think Hodgson yet knows his starting IX, and even when he does he doesn't know their set positions..

Agreed

> Up front we've tried Rooney, Sturridge, Crouch, Heskey, Defore, Walcott, Welbeck, Carol, Lambert.. I think its time we just said Sturridge and Rooney are our two, lets just give them time..

Agreed
> I really think a fairly set back 5 is pretty essential.

We need someone like Butt or Batty. Gerard wasn't suited.

> Ferguson was actually THE tinker man, but he rarely changed his spine.. or much on the spine, he kept that stable and familiar.

Exactly right. Total genius !
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I like climbing - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:



> Hell knows what you're like with your Mrs then?! :-)

Catching her is half the problem - she's an ice skater !

> I don't believe that IanRUK is some kind of mollusc researcher, he's an FA stooge.

I'd prefer him to Hodgson ! He's made some good points :)
IainRUK - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

>

> We need someone like Butt or Batty. Gerard wasn't suited.


There was a good article by someone in the press before the WC on Gerrard having reinvented himself as an anchor man for Liverpool.. and he was saying whilst he does sit deep and play the quarter back role, he doesn't offer the protection of a traditional anchor man and the proof was in Liverpool's defensive record.. I think that's shown up during the WC.

Carrick doesn't get the credit, even at United, as he's not an all impact, fly into tackles player, but he reads the game so well, he cuts out a huge amount of passes and so often our goals came from him reading the game, getting possession, getting the ball under control and giving it quick to the ronaldo's, Scholes's who would do the damage.. and he was always just written off as a minor role.. yet he was the main man for our most successful period ever.

roy, and VG, need to sort Jones out.. his development has stopped as he's just a utility player and is now an average option in 3 positions.. whereas if he could be schooled as a defensive midfielder or centre half he could be class.
I like climbing - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

> er, surely you just replaced Jagielka with Terry? Are you playing 3 at the back plus wings backs or something?

Just get a decent right back in. Those 3 worked great at Chelsea. Whatever combination it is pay George Graham to train them ! Unlikely but that would help.

> Cole's been well overtaken by Baines, he wouldn't have helped, except that Rooney might have listened t oCole where he didn't with Baines.

Baines didn't play his natural game - didn't defend and didn't attack like he can. Plus the communication between the 3 I suggested would have helped.

> If Cole was rated one of the best left backs in the world, when did he lose it? If it was recently, last 2-3 years then Baines is now one of the best left backs in the world.

He can be great but didn't show it this time.
I like climbing - on 24 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> There was a good article by someone in the press before the WC on Gerrard having reinvented himself as an anchor man for Liverpool.. and he was saying whilst he does sit deep and play the quarter back role, he doesn't offer the protection of a traditional anchor man and the proof was in Liverpool's defensive record.. I think that's shown up during the WC.

Spot on. I had a Liverpool defender in my fantasy League team and they certainly shipped some goals. Palace Liverpool summed their defensives woes up.

> Carrick doesn't get the credit, even at United, as he's not an all impact, fly into tackles player, but he reads the game so well, he cuts out a huge amount of passes and so often our goals came from him reading the game, getting possession, getting the ball under control and giving it quick to the ronaldo's, Scholes's who would do the damage.. and he was always just written off as a minor role.. yet he was the main man for our most successful period ever.

Agreed. I love his underrated style. He would have been in my wc squad

> roy, and VG, need to sort Jones out.. his development has stopped as he's just a utility player and is now an average option in 3 positions.. whereas if he could be schooled as a defensive midfielder or centre half he could be class.

Plus he has been injured something like 17 times at Utd. I don't get him either. I remember when both Fabio and Raphael were both played in midfield 3 years ago against Man City and Utd won. You can't imagine an unlikely combination of Jones and Smalling going into midfield for a big game. Bit of a random comment that ! :)

winhill - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> .. let Rooney and Sturridge have time to form a partnership.. pick a defensive partnership. My main issue is I don't think Hodgson yet knows his starting IX, and even when he does he doesn't know their set positions..

> I think its time we just said Sturridge and Rooney are our two, lets just give them time..

feckin hell, a week's a short time in football, innit?

Has it taken another totally toothless performance from England (8 shots, 1 on target, against a team running at 80%) to achieve this Damascene conversion?

It was obvious in the warm-up games that the partnership wasn't scoring, so it made no sense for Hodgson and Neville to play Rooney where they did, unless they could argue the partnership was so bad it didn't matter if you split them up.

When very justifiably criticised for this, all we got was don't blame Rooney for playing as a number 10, it's the same as blaming Stanley Matthews for not scoring in 1954.

Jeesh.
IainRUK - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:
> feckin hell, a week's a short time in football, innit?

> Has it taken another totally toothless performance from England (8 shots, 1 on target, against a team running at 80%) to achieve this Damascene conversion?

> It was obvious in the warm-up games that the partnership wasn't scoring, so it made no sense for Hodgson and Neville to play Rooney where they did, unless they could argue the partnership was so bad it didn't matter if you split them up.

> When very justifiably criticised for this, all we got was don't blame Rooney for playing as a number 10, it's the same as blaming Stanley Matthews for not scoring in 1954.

> Jeesh.

Incredible…

You've lost it..

Rooney can do a job outwide.. if tactics dictate, Fergie certainly used it, so it was not a huge error, and if you do that, you play an attacking player.. you sacrifice a great attacking player.. so if you play him there you expect him to go forwards at the expense of defensive work..

So yes don't blame Rooney.. you blame the person for creating that system… but when it is a tried and tested system that has brought success at club level is was hardly crazy.

Its just now, play the two, you wanted sterling as 10, but he's shown, at the moment, he can't do it.

And if you are seriously taking much from todays game then you even have less of an idea about football than I'd given you credit for.. even after your ludicrous comments on US technicality*

Today was just game time, a time to let players play together, so if you see Sturridge and Rooney as your eventual partnership, play them together in these sorts of games..


* Right if you had actually played the game in these new countries you'd know technically they are with us.. any kid can develop technique, what they can't develop over night is the footballing heads, that's where they often fall down. You play against an English player and he reads your game, you read his, you play with kiwi, Aus, US players and far fewer have the spacial sense we do in Europe and the UK, 1-2's.. through balls.. its much easier to be on a level with players in say Italy and Spain, even with a language barrier, than playing in the US/NZ…
Post edited at 01:22
Douglas Griffin - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Disappointed to see Greece go through. Dreadful team to watch - anti-football; they seem to kill any game they're involved in.
drunken monkey - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

For that reason, I'm glad Italy are out.
Douglas Griffin - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to drunken monkey:

At least they've got Pirlo.

ps - Seen Columbia's goals from last night? They've got some players in that team...
Post edited at 07:39
drunken monkey - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin: Nah, didnt see any of yesterdays games. Listened to England game on 5 Live.

Alan Green and Danny Mills were not holding back with their criticism

Douglas Griffin - on 25 Jun 2014
dek - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to drunken monkey:

Suarez is a big lassies blouse.. compared to Zidane...'This' is how you take out an Italy player......
http://www.somethingawful.com/comedy-goldmine/zidanes-headbutt-photoshopthread/
drunken monkey - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

To be fair - on the footage I thought Suarez had stuck the nut on him rather than bit him.
dek - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to drunken monkey:

> To be fair - on the footage I thought Suarez had stuck the nut on him rather than bit him.

Aye, lots of fuss over a wee bit of Bromance....
Postmanpat on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to drunken monkey:

> To be fair - on the footage I thought Suarez had stuck the nut on him rather than bit him.

Quite unusual for a nutting to leave bite size puncture marks on a person's shoulder…...
drunken monkey - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Postmanpat:

Could you tell that from the footage? I couldnt. Looked like freckles on the boys shoulder.

Not saying it didnt happen - just that the footage I saw was inconclusive.
Postmanpat on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to drunken monkey:

> Could you tell that from the footage? I couldnt. Looked like freckles on the boys shoulder.

> Not saying it didnt happen - just that the footage I saw was inconclusive.

Saw a still somewhere. Looked conclusive to me but only a brief look.
Douglas Griffin - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Postmanpat:

Looked fairly conclusive to me - video and photos.
dek - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to drunken monkey:

> Could you tell that from the footage? I couldnt. Looked like freckles on the boys shoulder.

> Not saying it didnt happen - just that the footage I saw was inconclusive.

If it had been Greece's' big Samaras doing the biting...It would look quite natural. If ever a player looked in need of a few pints of type O blood...:-)
IainRUK - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to drunken monkey:

> Could you tell that from the footage? I couldnt. Looked like freckles on the boys shoulder.

> Not saying it didnt happen - just that the footage I saw was inconclusive.

wow...
IainRUK - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> Disappointed to see Greece go through. Dreadful team to watch - anti-football; they seem to kill any game they're involved in.

Yeah, I really wanted to see an african team go through as they tend to be good to watch,

Nigeria should still go through.

Greece do set themselves up well.

Iran could make it through, if they beat Bosnia and Argentina beat Nigeria.

There have been very few poor defensive games so far. France Ecuador could be good as well..
Douglas Griffin - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Great atmosphere from the Ivory Coast fans too.

Remember you used to get that rythmic drumming from the Brazil fans? When I think back to Spain '82 and our group there (Brazil, USSR & New Zealand) it's one of the things I remember. That and Dave Narey's toe poke. ;-)
winhill - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> So yes don't blame Rooney.. you blame the person for creating that system… but when it is a tried and tested system that has brought success at club level is was hardly crazy.

If Rooney wasn't doing what he was told, if he wasn't aware of how he had to change his role to meet the Italian threat, if he was screaming at Baines because he's a prima donna, then yes you blame the player. Did you watch the Lineker analysis?

But it's all just over emotive rubbish, you said that Rooney and Hodgson were correct, the sick as a parrot shit you typed, no-one with a handle on that game agrees.

> And if you are seriously taking much from todays game then you even have less of an idea about football than I'd given you credit for..

Have you seen Frank Lampard's interview? Strangely agrees with me, how can that be? Because it's stand out obvious.
IainRUK - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:
Really.. I said that?

I said they made understandable calls..

Of course he knows how to change his game.. ffs little fat guy who played pub league knows the game better than Rooney.. Aye right...

Its you who posts the over emotive shit that we have to qualify or sack the manager.. muppets like you have learnt nothing about stability..

FFS its english fans like you slating everyone which causes this fear.. we;ve had 15 years now of england playing with fear, so many top players at club level have waved good bye to england with only 5-10 decent performances in the white shirt… and you think its all to do with them just not knowing the game well enough….

Yet at club level they have all played in the latter round of the Cl.. but no the small guy knows best.. FFS.. you really are quality..

Post edited at 20:50
IainRUK - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
Yeah, Nigeria looked pretty good though.

Gave Argies a game. I think this has been one of the best world cups for teams having a go and playing without fear.. well apart from us.. but even the likes of Iran have put in a real showing.

So far neither them or Brazil have been convincing.. but they are through and thats all that matters at this stage.

So far Holland and Germany stand out but have only watched bits of France so want to watch them against Ecuador..
Post edited at 20:51
Douglas Griffin - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

For me France look like one of the teams of the tournament (only seen first 2 games though, not watching tonight). Talent all over the field.
IainRUK - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Just watching them now.. Ecuador need to win at the moment to stay in.. but France do seem actually united for once..
winhill - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Really.. I said that?

> I said they made understandable calls..

bullshit

> Of course he knows how to change his game.. ffs little fat guy who played pub league knows the game better than Rooney..

ah,normal utter fcuking insanity resumes.

Who are you to criticise Capello? How many times did you win Seria A?

> Its you who posts the over emotive shit that we have to qualify or sack the manager.. muppets like you have learnt nothing about stability..

Where did I post that? You seem to have developed some composite of views that you're tilting at, even the press here has been benign, again you'd have to look at the Lineker stuff, although he posted days after me, I don't think he's copied.

> FFS its english fans like you slating everyone which causes this fear..

And we back to 2010, because they didn't play as prettily as you'd like, they're fair game but 2014 is different, cos you think it's pretty (although less effective).

Perhaps Vialli was half right, it's not just the players that can't handle the pressure, it's the fans as well.

IainRUK - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
0-0 ecuador down to 10 men following a horrid challenge from Valencia.. still in it though.. Swizz up two nil so they go through in 2nd unless ecuador win..

The last Central American who made a mistake that got them knocked out was murdered shortly afterwards..
Post edited at 22:17
IainRUK - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:
brillliant.. yeah its me.. saying lets progress, bit by bit.. keep faith in youth, let them progress…

Muppet.. keep drinking your carling little man.. maybe you'll grow from the special sugars….

Hodgson played a similar formation to Ferguson.. which has worked time and time again.. Baines also f*cked up by not attacking thus creating a gap but your lack of actually playing the game doesn't comprehend that…. he made the team by being attacking.. he didn't and why Shaw will be in next. Baines has had his chance and was found wanting…

He's too old now and Shaw showed how it can be done..

Capello played rank football, we showed no progress.. he did not have the team, it may have worked in Italy but but it didn't with England and he lost his job.

We have come on leaps and strides..

But still.. like all the other imbeciles shouting sack him, you've actually said nothing constructive? Who do you bring in?

We just keep doing this.. bring them in, sack them, bring them in sack them,.. he has a good young team who did fairly well, gave Uruguay a good game, more chances, more efforts.. which you blame rooney for… typically as someone who isn't athletic.. and yet you want to throw all the progress away….

typical short sighted.. I want it now.. behaviour from arrogant fans.

And you forget I'm a Man U fan.. I'm very aware of what it means to watch a team win.. it means keeping faith and not throwing the baby out of the pram.. even at United we had fans like you screaming for Ferguson to be sacked in 2002 when we were being hammered by everyone.. and back in 95 when he sold the older guys… I just know that stability is what players like..
Post edited at 22:33
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IainRUK - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

France have been awful… but they are 0-0 and only need a point to win the group.. and Ecuador have 10 men, but so far Ecuador have had some good chances to nick this…
winhill - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Hodgson played a similar formation to Ferguson.. which has worked time and time again.. Baines also f*cked up by not attacking thus creating a gap but your lack of actually playing the game doesn't comprehend that….

Yeah, Lineker's never played much either.

Goalkeepers, the tactical genius' of the game.

> Capello played rank football,

You've never won Seria A so the top trump rules you play means you can't criticise him. Can you see how that works now?

> But still.. like all the other imbeciles shouting sack him,

You're really just lying now, show the post where I said sack Hodgson.

> And you forget I'm a Man U fan..

Difficult when you mention Fergie every single post and complain that it's only ManU haters who question Rooney's obvious mistakes.
Lusk - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:
Difficult when you mention Fergie every single post and complain that it's only ManU haters who question Rooney's obvious mistakes.


:-)

Man U & England fans...

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=FTCyjdb0986H...
Post edited at 23:09
I like climbing - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

Let's face it England are crap. I've been to loads of England games at World Cups and European Championships and they usually disappoint.
The only sustained time that the team delivered was from '65 to '70. That was great and they were good to watch. I really enjoyed them then. They weren't great before that and have seldom done it since apart from a couple of false dawns. They were especially lucky in 1990.
The coaching in England is mainly to blame and the FA. How could they not have given Brian Clough the job ? Who knows how he would have done but you get the feeling that they thought of themselves first and foremost and the good of the national team second. The FA usually get it wrong and they need to make a change now IMO.
winhill - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:


> How could they not have given Brian Clough the job ?

Clough famously told John Robbo to stand on the half way line and wait for the ball. Told everyone else, if you get the ball give it to Robbo.

Which proves, beyond all logic, that Rooney should play on the left.
Greenbanks - on 25 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Well, at least 'our boys' are back now

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28012532

Notable in that it appears that only Roy had the decency to acknowledge the First Officer, who politely stood whilst the lads filed past, ignoring him (it seems). Still, they must have been pretty shattered after that long flight....
I like climbing - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

> Clough famously told John Robbo to stand on the half way line and wait for the ball. Told everyone else, if you get the ball give it to Robbo.

> Which proves, beyond all logic, that Rooney should play on the left.

Brilliant ! :)
FactorXXX - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to Greenbanks:

Notable in that it appears that only Roy had the decency to acknowledge the First Officer, who politely stood whilst the lads filed past, ignoring him (it seems).

They look like people leaving prison and with the plastic bags only adding to the affect...

IainRUK - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:
So lets go the win hill way…

We play 4-4-2 constantly. shout at our kids.. passion.. play for your shirts.. this is perfect..

I said play R &S now because they need time.. no delinquent Winster doesn't realise that can change.. as United do.. as Jose does.. you switch.. but it still doesn't mean we should not work on the S&R partnership..

But this static 4-4-2 with deep lying full backs is ancient.. when he was at school and you've got little guys like win hill stuck at left back cos they are shit.. yelling at the midfielder to cover the man when in fact they should man up and step in…

Baines was way too deep.. he was a rabbit caught in headlights this WC, he deserved his chance but reverted to safety and not doing what got him the spot…

People with little imagination, like Winhill like that…

Its now Shaw's chance.. Shaw attacked… at United Rooney on the left works because he has Evra who like Baines is much better when he attacks.. Baines sat too deep and it fell to pieces… we swapped rooney.. no change.. because you've still got a left back sat on the half way line..

And no you singled out Rooney when he was probably our best performer in this WC.. with him at the spear hub we created 13 chances.. Ideally we should play with much more flexibility, which I think was what they wanted.. its just anti-ManU.. you've moaned and moaned about one position fixated on rooney with no actual constructive positive comment..

Welbeck (who I think was poor) and Rooney.. yet in reality the poor performers were Gerrard, Baines, Jagielka and Welbeck.. I think the rest had fairly strong tournaments..

We lost to the side ranked 6th in the world.. out created them, more efforts on target, more possession and all people want to do is knock a team with an average age in the low 20's… of course things can improve, I've never said they couldn't, but we shouldn't shelve this project.. the future of this team over the next two years should revolve around the core of those players in this squad, with possibly Townsend and maybe Walcott, to add..

Get lambert, Jagielka and Lampard away now and possibly even Gerrard, but at least remove the captaincy and make him drop able..

Hodgson took over a team with an average age well in the 30's.. we were static, boring and had no future.. we're no a good decade younger and finally out creating teams and actually exciting to watch for large periods.

ILC: Re coaching they appointed Howard Wilkinson has the guy to develop coaching… set England back a decade in coaching… I wasn't a fan of Hodgsons appointment, I thought he'd be a failure, but I've been quite satisfied on how he's overhauled our squad and playing style..

I thought we were as good to watch as a long time today, I'm mid 30's.. the best team I saw were 96.. they played with freedom and could score, and then in the first few years of Sven we were good and did look very good but kept just falling short at major championships.. not by much, but just enough for the press to attack the players..

The problem is guys like the winter.. You've got the greatest midfielder in a generation who walked away before his peak because he had little fat guys screaming at him for not showing passion.. not running enough.. so he just said f*ck off.. I'll play for United.. and now we've seen it again.. chase back.. play deeper..

I think we're on the cusp of a good team right now, Hart, Flanagan, Stones, Jones, Sterling, Sturridge, Barkley, Wilshire, Shaw, Rooney, possibly Welbeck and Lallana.. and our youth teams have had success.. its nowhere near as bleak as most of the naysayers on here are making it out… we also need to stop the attacks..

A mate met Cahill in a park in Dronfield a few weeks ago.. their kids were playing.. he asked how do you think you'll go.. Cahill said 'No idea, all we want to do is get out of the group because we know the press will slaughter us"..

What a way to send a team out.. pay them millions or not.. I think some people are actually scared to enjoy life and look at the positives.. why do that when you can sit on the couch resting your calling on your gut shouting about passion..
Post edited at 00:58
Lusk - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Evening Iain, 4 hours behind us?

There's something called 'IT', and England just haven't got it!
No idea what IT is, but other smaller nations have 'Something' 'Or the other' or 'IT'.
I think the closest they had it, was with El Tel, but he had to leave due to some dodgyness or other. Could've progressed otherwise.

Anyway, soon be City v Utd soon! :-)

winhill - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> And no you singled out Rooney when he was probably our best performer in

And you keep lying. I mentioned Baines, Rooney, Welbeck and Gerrard, all in the same single post.

> Welbeck (who I think was poor) and Rooney.. yet in reality the poor performers were Gerrard, Baines, Jagielka and Welbeck.. I think the rest had fairly strong tournaments..

Yup Johnson was on a winner.

> We lost to the side ranked 6th in the world..

You've even corrected yourself once on this already, it seems like a little lifejacket you have to cling to. it really does show (one of many posts that show) your inability to identify, read, evaluate and weight evidence.


> I think we're on the cusp of a good team right now, Hart, Flanagan, Stones, Jones, Sterling, Sturridge, Barkley, Wilshire, Shaw, Rooney, possibly Welbeck and Lallana.. and our youth teams have had success.. its nowhere near as bleak as most of the naysayers on here are making it out… we also need to stop the attacks..

Although you've left out the Ox, who has a better shout than most.

This is done deal now, it's reportage, try reading Phil McNulty, the BBCs chief sport writer:

Poor tournament for the man who took Ashley Cole's place as England's first-choice left-back. Exposed defensively, admittedly with a lack of support from Wayne Rooney,

Only the Rooney fanboys are trying to say anything else, everyone else agrees. With little else to write about, it'll go down in the history books this way now. Little rants won't change that.
IainRUK - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:
Sorry I missed out Johnson.. No you bleated on about Rooney constantly.. But Johnson was the same as Baines.. played as a defensive full back when he's terrible in that role.. yet you think we should track back… Again he'd been picked because when he plays very attacking he's a good option, but just leaves you woefully exposed, but defensively he's just not good enough to sit deep. Baines can, but its far from his best role, and certainly a shite option when he has rooney, welbeck o sterling ahead….


We play Welbeck, Rooney, Sterling in the midfield and you expect the full backs to sit deep and for them to defend? I'm laughing out loud shorty.. that's fantastic.. try thinking about the game as a unit a bit.. You don't play very attacking midfielders for them to play as traditional wingers in front of deep lying full backs..

I can only guess you've actually never played.. not even pub level to be so tactically inept..


Hold on? So Baines two game tournament.. is being judged on 45-50 minutes with Rooney.. That was all he had.. The other was it a full 135 minutes? he was with others..

Fantastic.. you really have no idea..

No I'm right, all you've done is be negative.. guys like you do, you've never achieved in sport so you just attack everyone else.. blame everyone else.. it's better that way…

All you've done is moan moan moan.. I do love it about english sport, fat guys, carling on their belly criticising guys running their bollox off…
Post edited at 02:30
IainRUK - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to Lusk:
> Evening Iain, 4 hours behind us?

> There's something called 'IT', and England just haven't got it!

> No idea what IT is, but other smaller nations have 'Something' 'Or the other' or 'IT'.

> I think the closest they had it, was with El Tel, but he had to leave due to some dodgyness or other. Could've progressed otherwise.

> Anyway, soon be City v Utd soon! :-)

Agree.. that was when we did have genuine excitement..

I thought we did under Eriksson early on, the problem was Lampard.. he was too good to leave out so he tried to force Scholes out wide which didn't work and the team was unbalanced.. once we went to Gerrard and Lampard we just never recovered..

I think he tried to play too many of the same players, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham. It just never worked from then on..

But he took us from no hopers to regular latter rounds.. but we just never played well in the end.. I thought Gerrard and Lamps would finally work as they are both class clever footballers, but it just never happened.

5 hours behind…

I don't know why it is but we play with fear, guys like Townsend show up and play without fear but they all seem to get affected.. but they make a mistake and get murdered by guys like win hill…

We can go on that our players aren't good enough, but there must be a reason why so so many of them have had very successful club careers, competed in europe at the top level yet can't for england..

And for me its this constant almost want for us to fail so we can call them flops and over paid.. just incredible..

The yanks were laughing in the olympics.. they reckoned Brits had their summer ruined because it was a success and they couldn't walk around moaning about over paid athletes and wasted money…

Man Utd have just signd Hererra.. tad worried we now have another number 10 but sounds like he's deeper lying..
Post edited at 02:29
I like climbing - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

> Let's face it England are crap. I've been to loads of England games at World Cups and European Championships and they usually disappoint.

> The only sustained time that the team delivered was from '65 to '70. That was great and they were good to watch. I really enjoyed them then.

Scratch that ! I've just remembered going to Wembley in 1967 to see Scotland deservedly beat England 3-2.

winhill - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Great stuff from Ghana to get back in the game given this rather bizarre espisode:

On Wednesday, the national government sent in excess of $3m (£1.8m) in a chartered plane to Brazil to pay the squad following their threat to boycott their final group match against Portugal if they did not receive their money.

Don't they trust the banks?
winhill - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Former England striker Gary Lineker
MOTD presenter

"In the last four World Cups Thomas Muller and Miroslav Klose have scored 24 goals between them. England have managed 17.
IainRUK - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

Well played by the USA, caused Germany problems.. Germany are not great at the back..

At the moment its pretty open who will win, I'd go with Holland over anyone..

But I didn't realise Mexico only qualified because the US came from behind to beat Panama in the last game when the US had already qualified.. it shows how good they are..

Really are a strong team with a lot of very good professionals and a top keeper. I thought Timmy was at fault as he parried out but the german player approaching mean he actually did well to find a gap to steer it out..

I think they deserved to go through over the 3 games..

Enty - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

> Former England striker Gary Lineker

> MOTD presenter

> "In the last four World Cups Thomas Muller and Miroslav Klose have scored 24 goals between them. England have managed 17.

Says it all doesn't it.

E
winhill - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Sorry I missed out Johnson.. No you bleated on about Rooney constantly..

no, I mentioned once, what everyone knows, that Rooney let Baines down, then you jumped in with the crap.

> We play Welbeck, Rooney, Sterling in the midfield and you expect the full backs to sit deep and for them to defend? I'm laughing out loud shorty.. that's fantastic.. try thinking about the game as a unit a bit.. You don't play very attacking midfielders for them to play as traditional wingers in front of deep lying full backs..

You seem to think that 4-2-3-1 is The Precious, invented by Fergie, played by Man U and perfected by Rooney.

In fact everyone, even the Championship teams, have played it this season, the idea that Baines can't understand but Rooney can is just utter bollocks.

Again your relationship with the facts is defined by this toxic and tortured logic you think you can replace reality with.
Glyno - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to winhill:

> I mentioned once, what everyone knows, that Rooney let Baines down

>

That's rubbish.
Baines defended woefully (as did Jagielka) - end of.
Ashley Cole has played over a 100 games in that position for England and never once have I heard anyone bleating that he'd been 'let down' by the left midfielder. Mainly because he's a far, far better left-back than Baines.


IainRUK - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to Glyno:
Don't bother .. Even carra did an article blaming baines.. I still can't work out how 25% of his tournament with Rooney ruined his tournament.. Winters blinded
rustaldo - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

cashley cole would never have been sold that dummy by candreva the way baines was.
I like climbing - on 26 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Well played by the USA, caused Germany problems.. Germany are not great at the back..

I agree the USA did really well. They were a bit overrun to begin with but recovered and played exciting football.

> At the moment its pretty open who will win, I'd go with Holland over anyone..

I'd like Holland to win - it would bode well for Man U but my predictions are usually wrong ! It really is wide open.

> But I didn't realise Mexico only qualified because the US came from behind to beat Panama in the last game when the US had already qualified.. it shows how good they are..

I will be fascinated in how Mexico do. For the first time I can remember they look like they could have a really good w/c. Great to see Hernandez score in the last game.

> Really are a strong team with a lot of very good professionals and a top keeper. I thought Timmy was at fault as he parried out but the german player approaching mean he actually did well to find a gap to steer it out..

> I think they deserved to go through over the 3 games..

Definitely.

Cardi - on 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Last 16 just starting. Brasil v Chile could be interesting.
Shame the South Americans can't sing in tune though for love nor money.
Douglas Griffin - on 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Cardi:

Stunning game of football. Thought Hulk's goal should have stood.

Extra time now.
Douglas Griffin - on 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Well, we've probably seen the goal of the tournament tonight. (Colombia's 1st v Uruguay.)
I like climbing - on 28 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

I thought he controlled it with his arm after the initial contact with his shoulder / top of the arm. Not sure I'm right but that was my impression.
Cardi - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

Top of the arm is handball regardless, so I agree with it being disallowed.
Wanderer100 - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

ITV commentary team - rubbish. BBC far superior.
Holland didn't deserve to win tonight. I can't stand Robben, very skilful player that spoils his game by diving dramatically at every opportunity whether its Bayern or Holland and was well known for it at Chelsea.
I hope France win, good quality football without the dramatics, Brazil don't look good enough on current showing.
Tony the Blade on 29 Jun 2014

And it's looking good for Costa Rica again... surprise package doing great.

dek - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Tony the Blade:
Yep, I'm gobsmacked how far Greece have got in this WC?!
Tim Chappell - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Wanderer100:
> ITV commentary team - rubbish. BBC far superior.

Cannavaro and Martin O'Neill were excellent this evening on Holland v Mexico. Hoddle was OK.

But why is it that I find Adrian Chiles so irritating? I think it might be his inability to speak English (e.g. this evening we had 'rumbustuous') or pronounce foreigners' names (he kept calling Sneijder 'Scheider').

Or maybe it's the idiotic rhetorical questions (Martin O'N shredded him for a couple of these, which was very funny).

Or perhaps it's the unmistakable aura of pub bore/ bigot/ know-it-all he gives off?

Dunno. Tricky. Some people just rub me up the wrong way, I suppose. My fault not his, probably. Maybe in Droitwich everybody loves him.
Post edited at 22:30
wynaptomos - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to dek:

Suppose we were due a poor game after so many good games. Hope Costa Rica go through but Holland won't be losing sleep over facing them.
Wanderer100 - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Tim Chappell:
I agree with your comments about Mssrs O'Neill and Cannavaro but Hoddle? As a Wolves fan i will never forgive him for the debacle of his time in charge at Molineux although i forgive him for the shambles of his dalliance with Eileen Drury. But please, don't get me started on the ultimate amateur otherwise known as Adrian Childs!! Whichever ITV executive saw fit to impose this buffoon on us should be publicly flogged,
Impressed by Gordon Strachan though, thoughtful, insightful and none of the arrogance that accompanied his time whilst in charge at Celtic.
Tim Chappell - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Wanderer100:


I see Adrian Chiles gets (not 'earns') colossal amounts of moolah for bumbling around like everyone's embarrassing uncle:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/adrian-chiles-salary-slashed-1million-3062375
andymac - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Giorgios Samaras proves himself on the World stage again.priceless.

Wonder if Barcelona are still interested
Tim Chappell - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to andymac:

You're only being rude about Samaras because you can't spell Papastathopoulos.
Tim Chappell - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Wanderer100:

>

> Impressed by Gordon Strachan though, thoughtful, insightful and none of the arrogance that accompanied his time whilst in charge at Celtic.


I've always had a soft spot for Wee Gordon, even before he came to Paradise.

If the job description is TV pundit with a Brummie accent, I tell you who'd be fabulous at it. Send for Big Sam! And turn the loudness of his suits up to 11!
andymac - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to Tim Chappell:

> You're only being rude about Samaras because you can't spell Papastathopoulos.

No, I've always had a soft spot for Sami.even though he never remotely convinced me as a player.

2 goals in an Old Firm game a few years back ,when he was regarded as a bit of a joke, secured his cult status for me.

Every time I see him ,I still think of Neil Morrissey in Men Behaving Badly
Tim Chappell - on 29 Jun 2014
In reply to andymac:

And every time I see Adrian Chiles, I think of one of those cats with the squashed faces.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=squashed%20face%20cats&tbm=isch&ei=3JCwU4OoOoSwOeLbgZAH
Douglas Griffin - on 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Wanderer100:

> BBC far superior.

Seedorf in particular. He's gone home now, unfortunately, but the wee piece he did on Botafogo (broadcast on Saturday) was fascinating.
Post edited at 08:23
Denni on 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> Seedorf in particular. He's gone home now, unfortunately, but the wee piece he did on Botafogo (broadcast on Saturday) was fascinating.

Agreed, and he also talks sense when it comes to football.
Wanderer100 - on 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

The Germans are looking a little circumspect tonight. Algeria the better team in the first half!
Graeme Alderson on 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Wanderer100:

Agreed. But it is still nil - nil
Wanderer100 - on 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

No doubt the Germans will sneak one in and scrape into the quarters.
Chris the Tall - on 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Typical Germans, always diving !

That free kick has to be the best moment of the tournament
Tony the Blade on 30 Jun 2014
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Hilarious comedy moment. Algeria really taking this game to Germany. Good on 'em.
I like climbing - on 30 Jun 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Couldn't get my head around the German defence tonight but Low has got to be the coolest guy around - I knew they'd win just by watching him !
France v Germany - what a cracker.....!
IainRUK - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to Wanderer100:

> The Germans are looking a little circumspect tonight. Algeria the better team in the first half!

Never been so open..

The French didn't look good at all, the Germans look dodgy at the back.. as do most teams.

I'm still sticking with the Dutch..

I'm gutted about England as I think its a year we really could have done well had we got through as everyone is beatable.. and we were on the right side of the draw had we won our group…

See how Columbia do, would be good to see an outside really go far.

Belgium USA tomorrow… Belgium should win but I think the USA could easily beat them as they've not played well yet despite their star names...
Douglas Griffin - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> The French didn't look good at all, the Germans look dodgy at the back.. as do most teams.

Only saw the last half-hour but France looked pretty good to me. Valbuena is one of the players of the tournament, Griezmann again looked great when he came on as well.

In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Its interesting how the last set of games have all followed a similar format. Less fancied team (Mexico, Nigeria, Algeria) play really well in the first half and either take the lead or should have taken the lead by half time. Then gradually the bigger team (Holland, France, Germany) get the upper hand. The three European sides have just outlasted the other sides and beaten them in concerted spells late in the match where the opposition has tired and fallen apart. You could say the same for the Costa Rica - Greece match except that CR hung on and got through on penalties but they were never going to win by scoring in extra time.

On this basis I should fancy Switzerland, but I don't think Argentina will fall for the same trick tonight.

Alan
FactorXXX - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

I'm gutted about England as I think its a year we really could have done well had we got through as everyone is beatable.. and we were on the right side of the draw had we won our group…

Perhaps the most excuse ridden post ever on UKC!
MikeTS - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:


> I'm still sticking with the Dutch..

or Brazil
Brian - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to FactorXXX:England were just that bit more beatable than most !

IainRUK - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to FactorXXX:

> I'm gutted about England as I think its a year we really could have done well had we got through as everyone is beatable.. and we were on the right side of the draw had we won our group…

> Perhaps the most excuse ridden post ever on UKC!

Do you want to pick one excuse in there?
IainRUK - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to MikeTS:

Yeah, but there's no team who you can say are favourites or who would actually scare you to play…

Its probably what has made it the best world cup I can remember.. the gap between teams is now much smaller anyway, but this year they seem to sense that everyone is beatable and have had a real good go..

Doug: France finished well, but the first half Nigeria really went at them and should have probably been down to 10 men with one of their challenges…

Despite the upsets it could still be one of the few years when all group winners progress to the next round.. Belgium and Argentina have to win today and you'd put them both as favourites..
FactorXXX - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Do you want to pick one excuse in there?

Perhaps excuse is the wrong word, but you must admit, your reasoning for England not progressing further is desperate and almost bordering on the pathetic.
Mike Stretford - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to FactorXXX:

> Perhaps excuse is the wrong word, but you must admit, your reasoning for England not progressing further is desperate and almost bordering on the pathetic.

I don't see any reasoning. He seems to be saying it's a shame England didn't do better as they would have had a good draw in the group stages. Can't argue with that.
IainRUK - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to FactorXXX:

Again pick a reason…
IainRUK - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:
> I don't see any reasoning. He seems to be saying it's a shame England didn't do better as they would have had a good draw in the group stages. Can't argue with that.

Exactly this is the most open world cup we've seen in decades.. in the latter stages there's noone who you think strikes fear like the France of Zidane, the Spain of yesteryear..

I'd say I'm more bordering on anger that they've not seized on opportunity.. I think we deserved to go out, we conceded too many.. I'm just not convinced we're not on the right path with this team..

I do think we are barking up the wrong tree with foreigners.. we need winter breaks. We bring through big powerful players because big powerful players survive and do well in the quagmire of the british winter.. that eclipses skill and forces out the kids who are smaller, who may well develop later..

We even see it in birthdays, kids born earlier in the school year, bigger, stronger, do better.. I was at a coaching course in athletics and its a problem there and US Track and Field are urging coaches to look beyond simple physical attributes and looking at coordination and speed as well as heigh and power and allowing the kid the benefit of the doubt that the growth spurt will come, even giving kids years off during growing periods..

The difference between biological age and chronological age can be 3 years either way, which at 13 means you have kids who have the body of a 10 year old versus kids who have the bodies of a 16 year old…. so in British sport running around in boggy mud fields for 3 months of a year, power wins out..

We're one of the few countries in NW europe to not use winter breaks.. play on harder, dryer, smoother pitches and we'll see a better standard of youth football.. so simple to bring in.
Post edited at 14:53
FactorXXX - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Again pick a reason…

Your reasoning, is that if England had been in a weaker group and won it, they would have had a favourable draw in the next round.
You're probably right, however, England came last in the group, hardly an indicator of narrowly missing top spot.
Further, if the group had been easier and England had won that group, then they would have faced those same replaced/omitted teams at another point and been similarly beaten.
IainRUK - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to FactorXXX:

Its not a reason why we didn't go through..

We did get the right side of the draw.. even coming second we faced a decent run..

Add to that the general openness of the games and this is a year where a team you'd normally right off could do well..

I think it was fairly narrow. Our group was tight, we crashed one against the bar and missed a few chances then made stupid errors.. Uruguay were very lucky to progress..

One of their players got a 4 month ban.. should have been sent off there and then.. and against us Godin should have walked.. and he scored the winner to send them through in the next game…

In the 4 teams in our group it was actually fairly close between the 4, I think we all thought it was CR out.. Italy 1st, then between us and Uruguay for second.. as it was that was turned on its head by CR. They deserved to go through as they were the most positive team in the group but I thought Italy probably deserved to go through..

I thought they were far more comfortable against us than Uruguay were, we should have taken something against them.

Italy just tactically did us again.. Uruguay we got caught out by a class player and made stupid errors. If we played italy again they'd beat us time and time again until we learn how to squeeze someone like Pirlo out.. Uruguay was very open.. anyone could have won that.. 13 chances, 8 on target.. 62% of possession.. that was a missed opportunity.
MonkeyPuzzle - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> The difference between biological age and chronological age can be 3 years either way, which at 13 means you have kids who have the body of a 10 year old versus kids who have the bodies of a 16 year old…. so in British sport running around in boggy mud fields for 3 months of a year, power wins out..

> We're one of the few countries in NW europe to not use winter breaks.. play on harder, dryer, smoother pitches and we'll see a better standard of youth football.. so simple to bring in.

I don't even think kids should be playing competitive, i.e. league or cup, games at all and should be instead concentrating on technique and development. Even England's best players are no where near neat and tidy enough on the ball and are completely hopeless under pressure.
IainRUK - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Yeah I think we should move away. I'm still in favour of competitions but less focus on them, maybe like club rugby where you actually play 10-15 league games a season and the rest are friendlies..

We need more time for our kids to be comfortable passing and not scared to be caught on the ball. you play in Italy and anyone is willing to receive the ball, anywhere.. in the UK you pass it and they just hoof it away, scared to be tackled… and I think issue runs right through our football system.

I went to watch Seville V Madrid and what stood out was Zidanes willingness to take the ball anywhere and look for a pass.. without a doubt the most majestic footballer I've ever seen. Scholes is the only one close in his final few years he was superb sat deep but by then he was too easily over ran when we were attacked.
JMGLondon - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

>.. I'm just not convinced we're not on the right path with this team..

I think the big risk for England is not calling a turd a turd here.

It was odd that, after qualifying well, we decided to adopt an entirely new philosophy for the tournament. I'll be interested to see if we have the same style of play against the Swiss in September.

IainRUK - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to JMGLondon:

Do you think?

I thought it was our more attacking displays which qualified us, when Townsend came in? We didn't qualify that well, but we finished qualifying well..

I think we have a few issues, ball possession, defence, but like the fact I actually enjoyed watching us for once..

Switzerland are better than I expected so it may not be the walk in the park.. but we should still top that group.

IainRUK - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:
Argentina look average… they've been the better team but only just.

Pretty disgusting dive by Shaquiri? then… pure cheating..

incredible finish.. how that didn't go in for the swiss...
Post edited at 19:35
winhill - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to Glyno:

> [I mentioned once, what everyone knows, that Rooney let Baines down]

> That's rubbish.

> Baines defended woefully (as did Jagielka) - end of.

> Ashley Cole has played over a 100 games in that position for England and never once have I heard anyone bleating that he'd been 'let down' by the left midfielder. Mainly because he's a far, far better left-back than Baines.

Like I said, check the stats for the last 2 years, Cole's dead in the water 9even if you stop in January to give Cole an even chance). Baines is on target for twice the career goals Cole got. Cole's 107 caps are an argument for saying Baines should have been integrated more quickly, not less. 107 caps means he's the most capped outfield player never to have scored for England.

Cole was always second place behind Baines for the WC, taking Shaw not Cole was the (minor) talking point. But it shows a willingness not to make the same mistake as before.

If you've never heard of a left back being let down before, it shows Rooney (and Welbeck) did an even worse job than you realised.

Go back and read the reports of the Italy game.
I like climbing - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

Belgium USA what a match ! Sad to see the USA out........
dek - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

> Belgium USA what a match ! Sad to see the USA out........

Cracking second half! Would've been great to see it go to a penalty shoot out! :-)
wynaptomos - on 01 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

That may have been the game of then tournament so far. Great effort from the US.

The number of saves by Howard was incredible.....
I like climbing - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to wynaptomos:

> That may have been the game of then tournament so far. Great effort from the US.

> The number of saves by Howard was incredible.....

I agree - this has been the best world cup for goalkeepers ever and we've also had a huge number of goals ! When they select the best world cup side to play the Martians who would be in goal ?
I like climbing - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to dek:

I know ! And I thought Dempsey was going to score at the end !
Lusk - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

Ace World Cup all round so far!
Algeria were great yesterday.

Germany to win though.
IainRUK - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

Wow.. you have no idea..

Everyone says Baines was deservedly there.. but he was shite..

You blame Rooney who played for 45 mins in front of him.. and the other 135???

Baines went deeper and deeper.. some players aren't internationals.. so far Baines is one of them..

He had his chance and was found wanting..

You need to drop the antiManu bias.. I've criticised welbeck, he did a baines.. thought working hard was enough..

Some players make it some don't.. you'd never know such things as drinking carling spouting off is more important than competing...
IainRUK - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to Lusk:

> Ace World Cup all round so far!

> Algeria were great yesterday.

> Germany to win though.

Strange how every last 16 went the same way.. under dog pushed very close.. lost..

USA paid for silly mistakes, missed opportunities and tired defending..

I do think the best team won today, harsh as the US worked and worked.. but Belgium were the better team.
IainRUK - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:
> Cole was always second place behind Baines for the WC, taking Shaw not Cole was the (minor) talking point. But it shows a willingness not to make the same mistake as before.

Genuinely gob smacked!

I'm a United fan, Cole a Chelsea and Arsenal player.. THE greatest left back I've ever seen.. attacking and defending… his performances against Ronaldo were pure poetry..

He is an odious shite but you've let that cloud your judgement.. as you do.. he was a superb player for England, one of the very few to stand up and be as good as club level as he was at country.. no he didn't score.. but he was a full back.. you need to be in a scoring team to have that impact.. which he had at Arsenal..

For me he is probably the only one who leaves england having played as well as he can. Your club/personal issues need putting to bed.. say what you want about Terry and Cole, but they are big game players who stand up.. same Lampard.. Jose knew that. Few others are.

Knock the chip of the shoulder short man..
Glyno - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

>Baines is on target for twice the career goals Cole got. Cole's 107 caps are an argument for saying Baines should have been integrated more quickly, not less. 107 caps means he's the most capped outfield player never to have scored for England.

>
Booby Moore scored only two goals in 108 appearances for England, I suppose that makes him inferior to Baines too?
IainRUK - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to Glyno:
> >Baines is on target for twice the career goals Cole got. Cole's 107 caps are an argument for saying Baines should have been integrated more quickly, not less. 107 caps means he's the most capped outfield player never to have scored for England.

> Booby Moore scored only two goals in 108 appearances for England, I suppose that makes him inferior to Baines too?

Shilton was shit too… win hill has no idea… I'm still waiting to hear how Baines's whole tournament was ruined in 45 minutes by the wrong partnership with a left winger.. yet he's still a class player..
Post edited at 05:06
I like climbing - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to Lusk:

Germany Brazil semi final possibly ? That would be quite a match !
JMGLondon - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:
I think the French will beat the Germans.

My last four are: France, Colombia, Argentina, Holland.

I was in France last week and it was brilliant to be in a country where the national team were doing (surprisingly) well. Great atmosphere.
Post edited at 10:25
IainRUK - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to JMGLondon:

I think Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Holland..

But all 4 could go either way.. Argentina looked awful yesterday.. its actually incredible that all those 8 made it through, you'd have expected them to before the games, but all were lucky.. they almost all seemed to miss crucial late chances.
JMGLondon - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Yes they've all looked very ordinary. I thought it was such a shame that the US didn't get through last night - they would have been a nightmare for a very lackadaisical Argentina. Such a pleasure to watch a team that does not believe in diving!

I think Brazil have a mountain to climb with Colombia, James Rodriguez has been the player of the tournament for me.
IainRUK - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to JMGLondon:

Yeah the US have a very honest work ethic.. very strong fit organised team, but the heat seemed to kill them last night. They just looked so leggy by the end..

It's done a lot for US soccer though, really was well watched.

Belgium haven't really got going yet from what I've seen. They seem strong and well organised so will be hard to beat but their attacking players just haven't lit up the tournament.

Hazard has been OK, nothing special. If they get firing I'd fancy them to beat anyone in this world cup..
JMGLondon - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:
I think Wilmots is the weak link. He waited for a long time before introducing fresh legs. I was really hoping to see Januzaj make an appearance. They have so much talent.

The US performance vindicates the decision to hold the WC there in '94. Legacies are seen 20 years down the road, not 2.
Post edited at 16:48
I like climbing - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to JMGLondon:

> I think the French will beat the Germans.

> My last four are: France, Colombia, Argentina, Holland.

> I was in France last week and it was brilliant to be in a country where the national team were doing (surprisingly) well. Great atmosphere.

That would be interesting ! Look forward to see what happens.
Lusk - on 02 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

We were in Sienna at Italia 90, they'd won earlier that day, and the central square was just a monster party all evening...brilliant!!!
I like climbing - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to Lusk:

> We were in Sienna at Italia 90, they'd won earlier that day, and the central square was just a monster party all evening...brilliant!!!

That must have been great. My best friends went to that world cup and I've always regretted not going to it.
Lusk - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

Oh aye, you've got to go to the host country when it's on, all the different supporters etc etc etc. Everyone is really friendly and happy, it's great.
Last one we went to was Germany for a long weekend.
I like climbing - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to Lusk:

> Oh aye, you've got to go to the host country when it's on, all the different supporters etc etc etc. Everyone is really friendly and happy, it's great.

> Last one we went to was Germany for a long weekend.

I agree.I went to the French and German ones and really enjoyed them. Done a few Euros too.
Lusk - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

Qatar though???? WTF. Looked at it on Google Earth, there's FAll there, apart from one city, some small poncy beach resorts and an Industrial complex. Oh, and an old castle! :-)


Euro 96, saw Klinsmann's goal at OT, and the France/Czech (I think) semi, was behind the goal for the penalties. I live 20min walk away!
I like climbing - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to Lusk:

> Qatar though???? WTF. Looked at it on Google Earth, there's FAll there, apart from one city, some small poncy beach resorts and an Industrial complex. Oh, and an old castle! :-)

> Euro 96, saw Klinsmann's goal at OT, and the France/Czech (I think) semi, was behind the goal for the penalties. I live 20min walk away!

I don't think I'll make Qatar :) it sounds awful.......!
Great you were at Euro 96. We went to all the England games - funny thing though - we all got bruises on the back of our legs from jumping out of our seats ! It was only after someone mentioned it that all 5 of us realised we'd done the same thing !
winhill - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to JMGLondon:

> The US performance vindicates the decision to hold the WC there in '94. Legacies are seen 20 years down the road, not 2.

But their best performance was 12 years ago in 2002.

The US press has been asking why they appear to have plateaued and Klinsman's response is that they're too parochial now.

In the 2014 team 10 out of 11 play in MLS, when in the 2002 squad, 11 out of 23 played in Europe.
IainRUK - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

> But their best performance was 12 years ago in 2002.

> The US press has been asking why they appear to have plateaued and Klinsman's response is that they're too parochial now.

> In the 2014 team 10 out of 11 play in MLS, when in the 2002 squad, 11 out of 23 played in Europe.

Which ignores the increased strength of the MLS now.. It is now immeasurably stronger, and the numbers who play here testifies to that. But you compared squad with team..

They are now a solid team.. I don't think they have plateaued, thats not the view here. They played a very good belgium team and ran them close.

Klinsman has brought them on, they are now regular qualifiers who play honestly.. Mexico only made the WC because they won a game which meant nothing..


winhill - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Which ignores the increased strength of the MLS now.. It is now immeasurably stronger, and the numbers who play here testifies to that. But you compared squad with team..

> They are now a solid team.. I don't think they have plateaued, thats not the view here. They played a very good belgium team and ran them close.

Yeah, Klinsman, what would he know about the MLS? Like I said, that was his criticism of the team and the squad, I just looked up the facts to see if they backed him up.

Belgium were terrible, 39 shots, 27 on target. They looked good on paper before the tournament but have shown they can't do it, hence slipping down the bookies list.

r0x0r.wolfo - on 03 Jul 2014

In reply to winhill

Who counts goals for a fullback position?
He's alright going forward, but so is Glen Johnson at times... just the defending that lets him down...

I think we failed as a team, I'm not after anyone's blood to be honest.
Post edited at 02:27
IainRUK - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

39 shots.. 27 on target,.. forced the keeper into most saves in a wc game in 50 years.. terrible???

FFS Ive never known anyone so critical..

They played solidly, as they have done all tournament.. not great, not that well, but not terrible.

Brazil, was it 2002 when they eased through and only played well late on.. Spain started with a loss last time didn't they?

So far none has stood out.. Belgium have a top team on paper but are just grinding out results at the moment. TBH they have progressed more comfortably than Argentina..

I don't think they've shown they can't do it.. probably won't… but so far every team has looked very very beatable.. its made this one of the best WC of all time but only because most teams have been pretty poor..
Douglas Griffin - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Good piece on Pogba.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jul/03/france-paul-pogba-brazil-world-cup-germany

I've liked this French team from the start - think they could surprise Germany.
Brian - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:Aye, they look good - wonder what the odds are for Colombia v Costa and France v Belgium semi. Big match at Pittodrie tonight !

Douglas Griffin - on 03 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:

Aye, a near sell-out, so I hear!
IainRUK - on 06 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

I missed that game, heard it wasn't a classic.. Watched the end of the CR game.. Holland deserved that.. Tough on CR but they lived a charmed life to make it to extra time.. Big 4 left... No idea.. Sticking with holland but not sure any team is a clear favorite...
Douglas Griffin - on 06 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

France-Germany wasn't great - I thought France played very well in the first half but the Germans are so good at nicking results like that. Fancy them to go all the way now, though I hope Argentina win it.

I thought the Netherlands probably did deserve to on balance but I thought Krul's conduct was indefensible. Time for a new rule - attempted intimidation by the goalkeeper - automatic award of a goal, without the penalty being taken. I would hate to see the Netherlands win this now, bad enough with Robben, now this. From Total Football to Total Chancers in 40 years.
IainRUK - on 06 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:
I didn't mind krul.. But I was a keeper and loved the trash talk.. I found it funny, you often got it off the takers too..very good penalties by the Dutch.

They look dangerous but Germany are Germany.. Incredible consistency and due a win.. Just can't see Brazil not conceding..

Argentina just haven't looked good when I've watched them but in almost every game messi has had a moment to save them.

I'm going for an all European final..
Glyno - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

I remember waiting to take a penalty in a local league game and the keeper walked right up to me and said "I know exactly where this is going", to which I replied: "well, I'm f*ck*d if I do"!
The keeper retreated to his line p*ss*ng himself.
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Costa Rica got what they played for - penalties. They were then out-psyched by van Gaal and got what they deserved. I have no respect for teams that play for penalties.

Alan
Douglas Griffin - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I don't think they were out-psyched by van Gaal. 0-0 after 120 minutes?!

As I said above, I think the Netherlands deserved to win. I also think Krul's behaviour was disgraceful.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I disagree Alan- they were clearly not as good a side as the Netherlands but they were still creating chances of their own right until the end- they forced a good save in extra time and could have had a penalty at one point. They were having to defend for long periods but there was still ambition when they went forward. There are sides that have played entirely negatively and deserved to lose, but I don't think Costa Rica were one of them.

Kruls antics at the shoot out- close to the line of acceptability, but just on the right side of it, for me. The CR keeper was waving his arms around to try to put the Netherlands payers off, but the 4 penalties they took were close to perfect , so it just wasn't working....

Cheers

Gregor
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> I disagree Alan- they were clearly not as good a side as the Netherlands but they were still creating chances of their own right until the end- they forced a good save in extra time and could have had a penalty at one point. They were having to defend for long periods but there was still ambition when they went forward. There are sides that have played entirely negatively and deserved to lose, but I don't think Costa Rica were one of them.

You must have been watching a different match to me. You have quoted their two attacks of any danger above, I didn't see any more than this. I did see lots of time wasting and slow walking substitutes early in the match and general delaying tactics. I also saw massive cheers from players and supporters when they reached their goal of 0-0 at 120 minutes.

> Kruls antics at the shoot out- close to the line of acceptability, but just on the right side of it, for me. The CR keeper was waving his arms around to try to put the Netherlands payers off, but the 4 penalties they took were close to perfect , so it just wasn't working....

I think these antics have gone on a lot over the years going back to Grobbelar and his wobbly legs. This was nothing new or particularly different. In fact the two saves from Krul were superb and the penalties he stopped weren't that bad. I think the psychological effect was more a positive thing on Krul's confidence and the rest of the Dutch team who stuck their penalties into the edges beautifully.

Alan
I like climbing - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I think these antics have gone on a lot over the years going back to Grobbelar and his wobbly legs. This was nothing new or particularly different. In fact the two saves from Krul were superb and the penalties he stopped weren't that bad. I think the psychological effect was more a positive thing on Krul's confidence and the rest of the Dutch team who stuck their penalties into the edges beautifully.

I agree. Krul did the right thing and it would be wrong for FIFA to make rule changes to stop Goalkeepers from talking during shoot outs, because that is what it amounts to. It was a stroke of pure genius from Van Gaal too.
Douglas Griffin - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> I think these antics have gone on a lot over the years going back to Grobbelar and his wobbly legs. This was nothing new or particularly different.

He stuck his face in the penalty taker's face, and screamed at him. I've never seen that before. Quite different to waving arms around, or doing what Grobelaar did, in my opinion.
Mike Stretford - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> Costa Rica got what they played for - penalties. They were then out-psyched by van Gaal and got what they deserved. I have no respect for teams that play for penalties.

I've got a lot of respect for Costa Rica, given what they did with their resources. The game turned out as it did because of the NL failure to convert their chances, Van Persie in particular. A goal from then would have forced CR to attack.
Post edited at 10:18
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> He stuck his face in the penalty taker's face, and screamed at him. I've never seen that before. Quite different to waving arms around, or doing what Grobelaar did, in my opinion.

Didn't see any screaming there. Apparently he just said, 'I know which way you are going to put this', which is a pretty standard thing to say.

Alan
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> I've got a lot of respect for Costa Rica, given what they did with their resources. The game turned out as it did because of the NL failure to convert their chances, Van Persie in particular.

Oh Costa Rica did great to get where they did. Their first two matches were sensational and all credit to them for that. England was a nothing match and against Greece they were good in patches. The problem was that they stuffed Greece in the shoot out and got confidence that they were good at shoot-outs.

As for NL not converting their chances; they had one of those frustrating nights (as opposed to the Spain game where they had one of those freaky 'everything goes in' nights). Similar to Belgium against the States and several other games which have had lots of chances but relatively low scores.

> A goal from then would have forced CR to attack.

Kind of says it all really. "we won't try and score unless you do".

Alan
Mike Stretford - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> Kind of says it all really. "we won't try and score unless you do".

I think you're being a bit harsh. Plan A was to sit back and try and hit them on the break... which they did do on a couple of occasions. Their chances were so limited because they were facing a much better team.
Post edited at 10:33
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> I think you're being a bit harsh. Plan A was to sit back and try and hit them on the break... which they did do on a couple of occasions. Their chances were so limited because they were facing a much better team.

So why all the time wasting? You need time if you want to hit them on the break.

And they beat Italy and Uruguay (both decent teams who would not sit back against the Dutch) by attacking them.

No, Plan A was prevent them from scoring by any means so they could get to the penalty shoot out, and catch them on the break if they got a chance.

Alan
Douglas Griffin - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> Didn't see any screaming there. Apparently he just said, 'I know which way you are going to put this', which is a pretty standard thing to say.

I think there was a bit more to it than that.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jul/06/netherlands-keeper-tim-krul-intimidation-tactic...
Did Krul go a little over the top? Did he go too far in his intimidation of the Costa Rican players? This was, after all, not merely the wobbly legs of Bruce Grobbelaar or Jerzy Dudek but fairly naked aggression in the faces of the opposition – there is a fine line between gamesmanship and plain cheating, and Krul undoubtedly flirted with that line.

wynaptomos - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:
> I agree. Krul did the right thing and it would be wrong for FIFA to make rule changes to stop Goalkeepers from talking during shoot outs, because that is what it amounts to. It was a stroke of pure genius from Van Gaal too.

I think that's overstating it tbh. Krul must have been practising hard at penalties so at best it may have slightly improved their chances. Penalty shoot-outs are a bit of a lottery so Van Gaal could just as easily been left with egg all over his face.
However, Van Gaal does deserve some credit for trying something different. That's how the game moves on when coaches are prepared to put their reputations on the line.
Post edited at 11:10
Mike Stretford - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> So why all the time wasting?

They looked knackered!

I like climbing - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to wynaptomos:

It's that very thin line between death and glory. It could have gone very wrong….. There will be other coaches who end up looking ridiculous when their ambitious plan doesn't work out.

I've always had a belief that certain people are lucky when they do certain jobs - you need that.
wynaptomos - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

> It's that very thin line between death and glory. It could have gone very wrong….. There will be other coaches who end up looking ridiculous when their ambitious plan doesn't work out.

> I've always had a belief that certain people are lucky when they do certain jobs - you need that.

Some coaches may get the odd bit of luck in their decisions. VG though seems to have made a few game-changing decisions during the WC so you can't put it all down to luck.

All a bit worrying really seeing that he's off to United after the WC :-(
ads.ukclimbing.com
I like climbing - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to wynaptomos:

I think it will be an interesting premiership season…..who knows what will happen !
IainRUK - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> He stuck his face in the penalty taker's face, and screamed at him. I've never seen that before. Quite different to waving arms around, or doing what Grobelaar did, in my opinion.

no its pretty old, so is moving grass out of the way, disputing the placement, telling the ref to watch his walk up.. anything to delay him and get in his face is not unusual.

VG is brave, he makes big calls. I felt for Moyes he was screwed by a horrid start to the league.. that start was awful, almost unheralded. We didn't start off too badly tbh, the Liverpool game was awful, but Moyes panicked and tried to go back to his Everton style which just didn't suit our players or the fans…

Had he had an easier start and got confidence in his players and played a more attacking way I think he may have survived.

VG will make us attack and also is bigger than any player. Last year Vidic and Rio especially seemed to go missing, so did RVP.. a few of the top pro's need to have a good look at themselves as they stood aside knowing Moyes was getting the axe and not them, under VG that won't happen.

Re Costa Rica, I'm glad they went out.. After Greece won the euro's we saw more of that anti-football which is what CR reverted to, u can see why, its pragmatic football but just horrid to watch. They knew their only real chance was penalties, they had that one chance late on but the dutch mauled them and hit the woodwork 3 times then a number of top saves from the CR keeper..
JuneBob on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

People always go on about the beautiful football Holland has played in the past. 74, 98, 2000, 2008 holland had great teams that played fantastic football - particularly in 2000 they were the best team. In 1978 Holland lost the final because of dirty tricks by the Argentian media, eg. disrupting their sleep the night before the final, and kidnap threats to Cruyff kept him away entirely. No question Holland would've won otherwise. Best team in the world by a mile. In '94 Holland was beaten by an offside goal by Brasil. Holland only ever won in '88 when a lot of luck and some brilliance by Van Basten won them the title. All I want is the world cup. Just once. I don't care how. I'm fed up of watching my team playing fabulous football and losing. After we have a world cup, Holland can go back to playing pretty football. Anyone who complains about the Dutch evil tactics can go screw themselves - Holland's given enough to football already. Time for something back.
Douglas Griffin - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to JuneBob:

> In 1978 Holland lost the final because of dirty tricks by the Argentian media, eg. disrupting their sleep the night before the final, and kidnap threats to Cruyff kept him away entirely. No question Holland would've won otherwise. Best team in the world by a mile.

Scotland pumped them; I'll take that.
JuneBob on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Without Cruyff - but you can have it ;-)
IainRUK - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to JuneBob:

They've normally shot themselves in the foot with infighting… that was always their main issue when they had seedorf, Davids et al.. a great set of players but never played that well together.

Douglas Griffin - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Interesting piece on how the English Premier League's players have done:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jul/07/brazil-2014-premier-league-world-cup
In reply to IainRUK:

> They've normally shot themselves in the foot with infighting… that was always their main issue when they had seedorf, Davids et al.. a great set of players but never played that well together.

Actually it was only once their main problem, and that was in Euro 96, but they have carried this one for a long time as well. The same players then did really well at WC 98 losing the semi on penalties to Brazil.

Alan
IainRUK - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> Interesting piece on how the English Premier League's players have done:


I think its true but I'd first change the amount we play and the winter break..

Almost all EPL players look leggy whenever they get to a major championship, we single out the english, but as this article says there has been a general failure across the players no matter which country.

I don't buy the lack of players thing, CR has very few players who play at home, US similar.. they could go and play away. I also think we have enough good players and have done for a good decade but we've also made changes (youth players) which will take another 5-10 years to come to fruition.

Alan, I thought they also had fall outs in the last decade?
winhill - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> Costa Rica got what they played for - penalties. They were then out-psyched by van Gaal and got what they deserved. I have no respect for teams that play for penalties.

> Alan

Very harsh, they always tried to play the ball out, even Brazil put their foot through the ball more than Costa Rica.

The shoot outs have favoured the stronger team, the Dutch penalties were all excellent, none of the CR ones totally convincing, the 2 saves too close to Krul and even the first could've been stopped.
IainRUK - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

He's being harsh…

The last penalty was right inside the post.. that was a good save.

The first missed one was low..

You react late or read the feet, he saved 2 out of 5.. he read them well, that was his skill. Costa Rica took 5 decent penalties.. well struck, low, in the corners. RVP's was very similar to the one missed by CR, just a few inches to the side.

The dutch gambled though and went high which is unsaveable but easily missed. Had the keeper gone the right way for Robbens it was perfect height.. Sneijders was also far from in the corner.. and perfect height.

Krul was superb in his reading of their feet. He's got a decent record. The CR also tried to get in RVP's face by giving him the ball, RVP didn't even look up at him as he knew what he was doing.
winhill - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> I thought the Netherlands probably did deserve to on balance but I thought Krul's conduct was indefensible. Time for a new rule - attempted intimidation by the goalkeeper - automatic award of a goal, without the penalty being taken.

Disappointing to see Shearer cheering Krul on, I don't think this would work during a game, you'd get the other players getting involved.

If the keeper can approach the penalty taker, what's to stop another player from approaching the goal keeper?

The protocol is usually players out of the box, keeper on his line, player places ball and retreats, ref blows to say start your run. But it's not set in stone so keepers can exploit it by pissing about. What happens if a keeper decides to just stand in front of the ball when the player retreats and gets ordered into goal by the ref? All the elements of the rules are effectively supposed to take place at the same time. It's a bit like the 10 yard rule which isn't enforced (although more now than it used to be) for free kicks, with players interfering if they can.

Similarly the keepers have been so off their line this tournament some Canadians I was discussing it with didn't believe they had to stay on their line, they thought the keeper could rush forwards when the whistle goes. Navas vs the greeks was the worst, possibly.

IainRUK - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

> Disappointing to see Shearer cheering Krul on, I don't think this would work during a game, you'd get the other players getting involved.

> If the keeper can approach the penalty taker, what's to stop another player from approaching the goal keeper?

> The protocol is usually players out of the box, keeper on his line, player places ball and retreats, ref blows to say start your run. But it's not set in stone so keepers can exploit it by pissing about. What happens if a keeper decides to just stand in front of the ball when the player retreats and gets ordered into goal by the ref? All the elements of the rules are effectively supposed to take place at the same time. It's a bit like the 10 yard rule which isn't enforced (although more now than it used to be) for free kicks, with players interfering if they can.

> Similarly the keepers have been so off their line this tournament some Canadians I was discussing it with didn't believe they had to stay on their line, they thought the keeper could rush forwards when the whistle goes. Navas vs the greeks was the worst, possibly.

Goal keepers have been rushing out for decades.. absolutely nothing new..

Similary cleaning your boots…

Talking to the player..

I'd always get out at the player, walk on the spot, create a divot, then delay, dispute the spot, I'd talk to the player about who was under pressure, I'm just going to be the hero, tell him I've read him all game.. I was doing this from my teens 20 years ago.. what Krul did was nothing knew, and the Costa Rica keeper did it on the first penalty as he grabbed the ball and walked it up to RVP..

It's up to the ref to enforce it, all keepers do it. They occasionally stamp on it and stop keepers encroaching but refs have started taking more attention on encroachment from players as well…

I've been booked for it ,'persistent offending the rules of the game' was the reason.. anything which delays the game can be a booking.. its all in the referees arsenal should he want to act. My job was always to make it as long as possible from when the player touches the ball to when he makes a step.. some players love it and just smash it away and give you some back..

In Rugby 7's if we touch a ball which is out of play and isn't your ball next you get a 2 minute sin bin, no arguing, when a half is 7 minutes and then 6 v 7 its a big penalty.. and you don't see this.
winhill - on 07 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:


> Goal keepers have been rushing out for decades.. absolutely nothing new..

I don't think anyone's saying it's new, just that Krul has taken it up a level and not yet to the furthest it can go, unless there is some direction from fifa.

It's certainly controversial, that's why Shearer was prompted to express his support.
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

Get in the Germans!
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Denni:

Brazils ball control isn't as good as usual, so far?
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to dek:

Pretty ordinary innit?
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Brazil useless, Klose all time record scorer and a long way back for Brazil I reckon
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Oooohhh my effin god, 3 - 0 to Germany!
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

F*** me! 4-0 to Germany!
earlsdonwhu - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Denni:

A nation weeps.
rocky57 - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I'm in Germany at the moment, it's all gone mental.

Nice to see the brazilian get a spanking.
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Denni:

> F*** me! 4-0 to Germany!

It's Scotland in disguise isn't it?! :-)
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to dek:

5 nil! Side show bob, aka Luis, bloody useless
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to rocky57:

> I'm in Germany at the moment, it's all gone mental.

> Nice to see the brazilian get a spanking.

5 nil now!We?
rocky57 - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Anyone want to forecast the final score?
coinneach - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to dek:

It's the yellow Cowdenbeath !
Glyno - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to rocky57:

> Anyone want to forecast the final score?

6-5 to Brasil, don't underestimate the corruptness of FIFA.
1poundSOCKS - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to rocky57:
6-5 Brazil.

Great minds. :)
Post edited at 21:32
rocky57 - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

How about extra time and brazil will on penalties.
IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to rocky57: wow.. Incredible pub football..

Cú Chullain - on 08 Jul 2014
Lets party like its 1939
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to coinneach:

> It's the yellow Cowdenbeath !

Fck me it's like watching the Hi - Bees.
IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Denni:

> Brazil useless, Klose all time record scorer and a long way back for Brazil I reckon

I just don't think klose is that good... Club wise he's been nothing special..
coinneach - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to dek:

> It's Scotland in disguise isn't it?! :-)

No . . . . Scotland would have scored seven by now.
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> I just don't think klose is that good... Club wise he's been nothing special..

Not that good this world cup true, probably 5 years past his best but kniws where the goal is!
IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Denni:

> Not that good this world cup true, probably 5 years past his best but kniws where the goal is!

I think this has been him his whole career... Very good goal scorer offers little...
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to coinneach:

> No . . . . Scotland would have scored seven by now.

Davy Dodds and Dave Narey would've put a few past this lot! :-)
Indy - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to coinneach:

Gotta wonder if there are any Asian betting syndicates laughing all the way to the bank this evening.
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> I think this has been him his whole career... Very good goal scorer offers little...

True, but thats all he needs to do, score goals.
IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to dek:

Germany have been ok but they did nothing special.. Just atrocious defending.. But Brazil have risked this all tournament..
IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Denni:

> True, but thats all he needs to do, score goals.

No it is when you are in a dominant team.. Which is why he's so good for Germany compared to his club.. He's no Suarez, RVP or many others..
1poundSOCKS - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Surely scoring goals when you're not dominant is useful too? :)
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Germany have been ok but they did nothing special.. Just atrocious defending.. But Brazil have risked this all tournament..

I thought Brasil got away with murder in their last game, the tackling was atrocious!
This half's got to be better, they ain't 'that' bad....
Brian - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK: just ok !

Douglas Griffin - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:

Cowdenbeath: time to consider a new nickname.
Tim Chappell - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

I have a nasty feeling that, as a nation, Brazil is about to decide that all those rioters were right after all, and they never wanted to host the World Cup in the first place.
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Germany have been ok but they did nothing special.. Just atrocious defending.. But Brazil have risked this all tournament..

Not only atrocious defending, excellent tactics by the Germans, man for man they are better than the Brazilians, good pressing, good finishing, a lot more than just pants defending.

Beat France, hammered Portugal in fact the only matches where they have been matched was against Ghana and USA so a bit better than ok.
Dispater on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Bloody Hell!

I've just woken up in a parallel universe where Germany are leading 5-0 at half-time.

:-o

In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Brazil have been shit since they started choosing players named after characters from Last of the Summer Wine, rather than Greek philosophers.
coinneach - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:

That German goalie too.

I mean all he's done so far is stop the ball from going in the net and stuff.
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Denni:

At least USA put up a bit of a fight v Germany! This Brasil lot have gone AWOL. ..
The media will crucify them!
Postmanpat on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I think the pressure and expectation got to them. Collapsed mentally for twenty minutes once they went behind.
Tim Chappell - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Malcolm Tucker's Sweary Aunt:

> Brazil have been shit since they started choosing players named after characters from Last of the Summer Wine, rather than Greek philosophers.



Remind me, who was Hulk in LotSW?
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to coinneach:

> That German goalie too.

> I mean all he's done so far is stop the ball from going in the net and stuff.

Indeed!

6-0 now, gotta love the Germans
Brian - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to coinneach: aye, he's nae bad - I sometimes wonder what game IainRUK been watching !
6 zip noo

IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Denni:

True better than ok but I just don't think any team is that scary this year.. A decent typically effective German team is walking it so far.. Ghana and USA.. Both big fit strong well organized have all but matched them .., they just control the controllable.. Few mistakes.. Exploit weaknesses..,
IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:
Neauer has done well but he's world class...

If you'd watched this tournament this has been coming since day 1... A poor Brazilian era managed by a fairly archaic coach...
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Big Phil's going to outdo Van Gaal... he's playing with two keepers, at the same time...
IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:
> just ok !

Yes.. Struggled to break down a us team which was all players from lesser teams.. Any team which gets at Germany's back line can cause issues.. Kinsman set the us up German style.. Control the controllable.. Much lesser players.. And could have taken it..


Wow.. Tbf the keeper has done ok.. That was a disgrace...
Post edited at 22:37
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Brian - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK: aye, but this game is really easy, just one touch two touch, simple.

Tim Chappell - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:

Colombia must be kicking themselves.

Makes a change from kicking Brazil :-)
Brian - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK: You should put your name forward for the England job when it become availble - 7

Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:

What a strike by Schurrle, 7-0, unbelievable scoreline.
Tim Chappell - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Denni:

What must Argentina and Holland be thinking??

I find it hard not to see this as the evening when Germany win the final too.
Brian - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Denni: I had Germany for a 2-1 on my coupon and 1-1 (90mins) for tomorrows game - maybe I should rethink ?

rocky57 - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

This is one of the most remarkable games I've ever watched.
Dispater on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Now it's Brazil's worst ever defeat, and the worst semi final defeat in a World Cup.
Germany need another to equal their record World Cup win (8-0 against Saudi Arabia).
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:

> You should put your name forward for the England job when it become availble - 7

Ah hive always said.. Scotland should try a German Manager. ...:-)
Douglas Griffin - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Dispater:

> Now it's Brazil's worst ever defeat

Wurst, surely.

IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:

> You should put your name forward for the England job when it become availble - 7

No we should just go for klopp.. We live scared of teams we can match.. There's no reason we can't be the USA with talent.. We made too many errors.. But we don't value the likes of scholes and now carrick.. The two most successful English midfielders and have been pushed aside... Two players who play a simple game... One day we'll value that over a 1 in 10 Hail Mary and a crunching tackle..
Dispater on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Leave Shirley alone with your sausage!

Brian - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to dek: Or maybe an Italian

IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

> Wurst, surely.

Hunbelievable was my mates headline guess...
rocky57 - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Suppose at least they don't have far to go home.
Brian - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to dek: A Swede ?

Brian - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to dek: Am no looking forward tae November !

dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:

8-1 it's 'Game on'....They thought it was 'All Over'...
rocky57 - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Go out at the group stage, or lose 7-1 to germany. I know what I'd prefer.
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:

> A Swede ?

We've tried a Turnip..
Mr Lopez - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:
> (In reply to Denni) I had Germany for a 2-1 on my coupon

Do you reckon someone would have put a few quid down on 1-7 for a laugh? That must be a pretty handsome payout even for a few pounds
Denni on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Mr Lopez:

> Do you reckon someone would have put a few quid down on 1-7 for a laugh? That must be a pretty handsome payout even for a few pounds

Ridiculous as it seems, my mate in Munich put a drunken bet on for Germany to win 5-1 so he was nearly there!
Dispater on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I can smell burning yellow polyester.
Tim Chappell - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Dispater:

Is it just me, or does this feel a bit like celebrating a really efficient shooting of Bambi?
Dispater on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Tim Chappell:

I've no idea what it feels like; it's a new one on me.

:-/
Postmanpat on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Tim Chappell:

> Is it just me, or does this feel a bit like celebrating a really efficient shooting of Bambi?

RIP the Brazilian football legend......
Tim Chappell - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Postmanpat:

I was right that Brazil were there for the taking. I was out by one game about when they would get taken, that's all. Because I thought Colombia would do them about 5-2.

If the ref had protected James Rodriguez and Neymar from thuggery the way he's supposed to, instead of letting a nasty cycle of retaliation develop that led to Neymar getting seriously hurt--if not for that, then I truly think Colombia would have done to Brazil something rather like what Germany have just done to them.

This result or something like it has been coming a long time.

I wonder now what Holland will do to Argentina. I think Argentina are overrated stock too. Without Messi they wouldn't add up to much.
Postmanpat on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Tim Chappell:
> I was right that Brazil were there for the taking. I was out by one game about when they would get taken,

To be honest, I thought they'd lose and maybe well beaten but not by seven!

Come on the cloggies........

I thought the pundits did well not to describe the Germans as Germanic......
Post edited at 23:14
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Tim Chappell:

Just texted my brother to say imagine any team now trying to flog a Brazilian defender?
He reckons it'll be happening on the copacabano beach at dawn?
Christheclimber - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to dek:

Do you think Pars SG will be asking for their money back for David Luiz under the trade descriptions act?
Tim Chappell - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Christheclimber:

You're onto something there, right enough. Redescribe Dunfermline as Pars SG and maybe, just maybe, things would be so different...
In reply to Tim Chappell:

Luiz is never up to Par(s)!
IainRUK - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Tim Chappell:

Careful Tim... You just said what I said Brian will be on to you ... Brazil have risked a tanking since game 1.

Holland are up and down though.. But I do think they can beat Germany as they are weak when you get at them.. This World Cup is so great because no team is superb... And everyone knows that..
winhill - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Christheclimber:

> Do you think Pars SG will be asking for their money back for David Luiz under the trade descriptions act?

Captain and senior central defender, he's got to take a huge amount of the blame for tonight, he just didn't show up. Constantly at fault.

Said before the game that they'd miss Thiago Silva more than Neymar but didn't think it would completely fall apart without him.
wynaptomos - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to Christheclimber:

That's the thing though, they were playing like amateurs and yet Luis has just gone to PSG for 50M, Marcelo plays for Madrid, Dante for Bayern, fernandinho was atrocious in the first half and he's been one of city's best this season. What were they playing at?
dek - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

Good shout. They just looked clueless on the field, lacking initiative inexcusable at this stage of the tournament, considering how they've come.
They aren't 'that' poor.
Brian - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK: I will pass on your observations to Mr Strachan - we play them in November, they could be world champions by then. I can barely remember the last time we played the world champions but I think we did ok, even a wee bit o keepy uppy.

Tim Chappell - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:
I've just watched the BBC highlights, twice. Now if we're getting properly serious, I'll admit at once that I'm no proper football expert.

But even I can see that, each and every time Germany score, David Luiz is wandering around like a confused person in an old people's home. Nowhere near the ball, making no effective contribution whatever.

For goal #4 Fernandinho just gave the ball to Mueller, and Germany went straight on and scored. And for goal #6, I think it was, half the Brazilian side stood around their own six-yard box and watched the Germans ping it around until they decided to put it into the net instead.

Fish in a barrel would at least have tried to dodge the bullets.

Just incredible.
Post edited at 23:47
I like climbing - on 08 Jul 2014
In reply to I like climbing:

How immensely satisfying ! I go top of our fantasy world cup league following my fantasy league victory in May. What could possibly go wrong for me now ?

Tom Last - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> Hunbelievable was my mates headline guess...

Or just "Bosche!"
Tim Chappell - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Tom Last:

I'm tempted by some headline about ladies' rude bits being left completely bare and exposed... but I don't think I should pursue that thought, probably.
winhill - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Tim Chappell:

The Semi-Final Solution?
Tom Last - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

> The Semi-Final Solution?

Oh God, he's gone and said it.
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Tim Chappell:

It was just atrocious... Luiz is no great defender.. But they were directly responsible for most goals , always had plenty of men back they just weren't talking.. There was just nothing between the players..

This is a solid German team but past teams would hammer these.. Little pace up front or at the back which is why Neuer has been so crucial..

Argentina are harder to beat so no idea.. Holland can beat anyone if they perform
andymac - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:


Chuffed with the result.

Only disappointment being that the over hyped "Justin Bieber of football" wasn't there to get found out as well.His mythical status will live on.

Some shocking defending.

Big Phil must be looking for his biro this morning.
Greenbanks - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to andymac:

Anyone know quite why Fred was singled out for the treatment (as opposed to any of the others)?
Perhaps a one-off as sometimes litters the world of sport (Solari & a nation of Brazilians will hope that's the case). But somehow its a confirmation of the punter judgement that (i) the team was not a patch on previous yellow armies and (ii) there isnt a genuinely outstanding team in the Class of 2014
Douglas Griffin - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Brian:

> I can barely remember the last time we played the world champions but I think we did ok, even a wee bit o keepy uppy.

Not sure if it was the last, but we beat Argentina 1-0 in 1990 in a friendly. (Stewart McKimmie!)

lummox - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Side Show Bob should've been sent off. At least once. Great to see him crying.

Btw, anyone seen the Scottish FA's tweet afterwards ? Brilliant : )
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Greenbanks:

> Anyone know quite why Fred was singled out for the treatment (as opposed to any of the others)?

> Perhaps a one-off as sometimes litters the world of sport (Solari & a nation of Brazilians will hope that's the case). But somehow its a confirmation of the punter judgement that (i) the team was not a patch on previous yellow armies and (ii) there isnt a genuinely outstanding team in the Class of 2014

Totally agree. This is a solid German team, very strong in midfield but there's no absolute standout team this year.. every team looks beatable..

I was looking at Klose's club record, he's 36 and played the same amount of football as Rooney, but less goals per game over a career… less in the CL.. its his international comps he's stood out in, but backs up my view that his not a great player.. of the centre forwards of his generation I struggle to think of a significant club moment of his.. in fact the one that stands out was when he informed a ref he'd scored illegally and had a goal wiped out on his request..

Today should be good…

Behind Neymar this is a very poor brazil team, I've never seen a brazil team pass so poorly. The defending was just embracing, they often had plenty of men back but were just clueless..
Mike Highbury - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:
> Totally agree...

> I was looking at Klose's club record, he's 36 and played the same amount of football as Rooney, but less goals per game over a career… less in the CL.. its his international comps he's stood out in, but backs up my view that his not a great player.. of the centre forwards of his generation I struggle to think of a significant club moment of his.. in fact the one that stands out was when he informed a ref he'd scored illegally and had a goal wiped out on his request..

To shoehorn Rooney into a discussion about a WC semi-final is a touch of genius.

Post edited at 13:16
rocky57 - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Mike Highbury:

He likes his Rooney that's for sure, and always keen to defend him to the end.
Greenbanks - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Mike Highbury:

Interesting. Some Portuguese colleagues don't have the same view about Ronaldo & his Portugal performances. He (admittedly knackered at this years WC) has never really performed - like Rooney. But they don't then denigrate his talent. Its just one of those things. I have a German friend who says the same about both of them - great players, which ordinary punters, armchair sports commentators, want to fire cheap shots at.
But its the English way - sport, music, theatre etc Don't ever get too good/popular/successful/rich or we'll have you
Rooney has, £ for £, been a bargain for United, and I think that even though he's been a bit disappointing for England he's still managing to be close to eclipsing the English scoring record.
dek - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Greenbanks:

Agreed, That's all so true! :-)
winhill - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Greenbanks:

> Anyone know quite why Fred was singled out for the treatment (as opposed to any of the others)?

He wasn't was he? Although he's had a poor tournament, that was the case before this game.

> Perhaps a one-off as sometimes litters the world of sport (Solari & a nation of Brazilians will hope that's the case). But somehow its a confirmation of the punter judgement that (i) the team was not a patch on previous yellow armies and (ii) there isnt a genuinely outstanding team in the Class of 2014

Calling it a punter judgement doesn't alter the fact that's it's (a) true and (b) also the opinion of a lot of professional pundits.
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Mike Highbury:

yeah.. But I was just saying over a career, as an all out goal scorer Klose is a goal every 2.5 games.. not impressive…

CL wise its 30 in 80 or so…

Suarez is 220 in 360 games… Henry 193 in 360 (incredible how few games he played)
RVP 202 in 430, Ruud Van Nistlerooy 350 in 590

Klose just doesn't rank that well, especially when he's seen as an all out scorer..

dek - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:


> Klose just doesn't rank that well, especially when he's seen as an all out scorer..

Well any team just couldn't risk 'not' using a Klose? !
Just watched the goals on the news again, in nearly every goal the Brasil defenders were facing their own goalmouth!
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Greenbanks:

Ronaldo was injured though, he'd been struggling for the last few months of La Liga.. I felt for him as this was his world cup, perfect age.. but by the next one I think he'll be a much lesser player.

We need to look at the english game, we go on about english players not performing but it was almost al EPL players..

Kompany and Howard have been the two who stood out. Suarez actually did little apart from his two goals against england when tbf he barely touched the ball in that game other than that.. so he actually didn't have a great tournament.. again injured.

Hazard, RVP, Lukaku these are class players. All seem to make the world cup tired. TBF to Rooney he looked fit and fresh but had been injured which may have helped this year.

We have slated the english team again yet there is this huge elephant in the room.. all the EPL players almost to a man were shite.. so are they suddenly just hugely over rated? no..

I think it was Hansen saying he thinks its the pace rather than the lack of winter break, but we can't change the pace, we can change the break issue. But we need to drop the league to 18 but thats not going to happen.. you need teams to vote for that and the West Hams of this world won't vote for that.

But we also need to take the british game internationally. That's when we win. United and Liverpool had CL success by playing the english game, attacking at pace, fast passing but just over running teams. In Europe we seem to try to be too static. United tried it for years, to out european the europeans, then we went to our own system and just mauled them.

I don't think I defended Rooney then, I just put his goal scoring record against Klose.. a lot was made of his WC record, especially when you compare to Klose, but when you look over a career and in things like the CL Rooney is superior.. who would you rather have?

And tbf if Rooney did play Klose's game for England you lot would murder him as he'd be stood up front not moving waiting for the ball that doesn't come..




Mike Stretford - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Greenbanks:

> Rooney has, £ for £, been a bargain for United,

He's a good player who's had occasional flashes of brilliance, but he aint the world class player he and a section of Reds think he is.

Had Ferguson stayed on he would have been sold and it would have been the right decision. The 2 contract standoffs he's had have been damaging enough on their own.
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to dek:

> Well any team just couldn't risk 'not' using a Klose? !

> Just watched the goals on the news again, in nearly every goal the Brasil defenders were facing their own goalmouth!

yeah for england it would be a waste.. At United rooney can play the number 9 role and bang in 30-40 a season.. for England he'd be stood up front with no service..

Germany are 100 times more dominant in the midfield.. england can't afford to play rooney as an all out number 9 as we have sturridge who can play in that role and rooney is the better option than others in the other roles.
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:

> He's a good player who's had occasional flashes of brilliance, but he aint the world class player he and a section of Reds think he is.

> Had Ferguson stayed on he would have been sold and it would have been the right decision. The 2 contract standoffs he's had have been damaging enough on their own.

He's not world class? Not sure, I don't think he's an all time great like Ronaldo or Messi, but he's been a key player in a team that has made 3 champions league finals and won 5-6? titles.

He's not the smartest with a poor background and a terrible agent but tbf he has worked and worked on the pitch which is why the fans have stood by him. I like RVP but last season he was one of the worst offenders for not playing for Moyes.. for me he's on borrowed time now.

I'm not sure if we should have sold him, I don't think we could risk it, but it also made no financial sense not to get him to sign a new deal, we can sell him now for vastly more than we could have sold him before he signed, regardless on how much we paid him..

Remember Ronaldo said he wanted out and we gave him a huge contract and sold him a year later for 80 million.. we only got that because he signed a huge contract when asking to leave.
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Greenbanks - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:

SAF would maybe have sold Rooney because of his age.Not because he was rubbish. Interesting that the 'section of Reds' you refer to is probably larger than your average 'pool or Chelsea gate. But I'll agree - a section.

I think we have to be very watchful about the use of a term like "world class". Rooney has played at the WC,so de facto he and loads of others clearly are "world class".
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to dek:

> Well any team just couldn't risk 'not' using a Klose? !

> Just watched the goals on the news again, in nearly every goal the Brasil defenders were facing their own goalmouth!

It was just comical.. I think Germany's performance is being over played, they played well but Brazil were just disgusting. Schurle's shot was solid but that should never ever have beaten a keeper from there.. there wasn't that much power on it.. at least 3 or 4 of those goals were just suicide.

Brazil had 18 shots to Germany's 14, 13 on target to their 12 and 51% of possession… 7 corners to Germany's 5… yet lost 7-1…

It reminded me a bit of United Arsenal the other year when we won 8-2, it was just comical defending meaning it seemed almost every chance went in, similarly chances created were pretty similar in that game.
Mike Stretford - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

> He's not world class? Not sure, I don't think he's an all time great like Ronaldo or Messi, but he's been a key player in a team that has made 3 champions league finals and won 5-6? titles.

But he's been very mixed over that time (even allowing for injuries). I've just looked up he's stats, 34 goals in 09-10 and 11-12, but the other season are all significantly less.

> He's not the smartest

This is what irks me about him. I think he could have made the step up to 'world class' if he had applied himself (like Bale). You say he 'worked and worked' but there have been times when he's not... he can be a sulker.

> I'm not sure if we should have sold him, I don't think we could risk it, but it also made no financial sense not to get him to sign a new deal, we can sell him now for vastly more than we could have sold him before he signed, regardless on how much we paid him..

I think there's a problem there, he'll have to agree to be sold and I don't think anyone else will pay what we are. Having such a highly played player can be disruptive to the squad.

dek - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Rather than get bogged down about a single 'world class' player. It's time England, and all the others adopted parts of Germany's youth rebuilding plan, it's just incredible (to me) how they've done exactly what they said they were going to do!
(Scotland's now a tennis nation...)
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Mike Stretford:

I don't think so.. he played deeper last season.

He'd never have been a Bale, who is injured a lot, but athletically Bale and Ronaldo are beasts.. Rooney just is not.

I'm not sure, he will be the highest paid but not by a huge amount but at OT I've never known a player raise the crowd the same apart from Keane and Cantona.. he is genuinely loved.. his work rate. He makes things happen.

City or chelsea would take him in a flash, City just to make a statement. But United are a hugely successful business, they are run as such, they won't have offered that without knowing that we will profit from him as he's so popular.

I've got no issues with high wages as its common in any sport or viewer supported industry, people pay to watch films, music, football.. the performers should get the money. As long as the business is profitable I don't see the problem, thats just free markets working..

F1, golf, tennis, baseball etc.. all get similar wages.

Bjartur i Sumarhus on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

As one sided matches go, the stats make interesting reading

Brazil Germany

Goals scored 1 7

Total shots 18 14

Shots on target 13 12

Corners 7 5

Offsides 3 0

Fouls committed 11 14

Yellow cards 1 0

Red cards 0 0

Ball possession 51 pct 49 pct

If you had asked me after the final whistle to fill out those stats from my opinion of the game, apart from the scoreline and red cards I would have been WAY off.
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to dek:
> Rather than get bogged down about a single 'world class' player. It's time England, and all the others adopted parts of Germany's youth rebuilding plan, it's just incredible (to me) how they've done exactly what they said they were going to do!

> (Scotland's now a tennis nation...)

I think we have to a point.. we won the U17 world championships in 2014 for the second time in 5 years (2010).. and were semi finalists in 2011..

From that squad we have Barkley, Sterling, Wisdom, Keane, Powell, Butland who may well come on to be top players.. I'm hopeful for Powell, he looks a nice player.

I do think we are seeing this group coming through now and if you look at how our average age has changed over the last 4 years we are bringing through youth, maybe we went too quick, but I'm liking seeing the youth being given a chance so was pretty appalled with the slating this team got.

The new home grown players rule will help but United have led the way for years with this and I'm amazed its taken so long to come in.. for 3600 consecutive games United have had a home grown player in their squad, running back to 1937...
Post edited at 14:26
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I know.. the 51% of possession was staggering.. I thought actual shots may have been similar but Germany seemed to dictate the game so was surprised they had less of the ball.. just goes to show.
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Rooney is a bit like Sharapova. Very highly paid proportionally to their talent

I'm not saying they are not talented or worth the money, just their pay is not a total reflection on their talent, but more on other factors.
wynaptomos - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Surprising as you say but I'm assuming that almost all Brazil's shots, corners etc came in the 2nd half when it was well over as a contest so pretty meaningless.
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to wynaptomos:

Still its 13 chances and 7 goals for Germany..

Compare that to the US Belgium game, 38 shots, 26 on target.. 2 goals..

But the US defended well, Howard didn't make mistakes..

rocky57 - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Tonight I am cheering for the Netherlands.
Enty - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to rocky57:

So am I just up until the first Triple Salko by Robben.......

E
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
No holland for me.. Obvs reasons but not a fan of the argies..

Only caught bits as job hunting..
In reply to IainRUK:

Much of that possession was picking the ball out of the net!
rocky57 - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Enty:

I'll be absolutly honest I did not know that Robben was also a figure skater.
andymac - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Enty:

I'm not one to wish harm on anyone ,but it would be good if he possibly came up against a hard as nails Latin American with ,say ,the tackling artistry and finesse of Tommy Smith or Chopper Harris.

Enty - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to rocky57:

> I'll be absolutly honest I did not know that Robben was also a figure skater.

He's be better at that than footy I reckon which is saying something (twat)

E
Enty - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to andymac:

> I'm not one to wish harm on anyone ,but it would be good if he possibly came up against a hard as nails Latin American with ,say ,the tackling artistry and finesse of Tommy Smith or Chopper Harris.

Yep!

E
Gordon Stainforth - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Enty:

What can we say now but that everything looks very good for Germany?
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Probably but these are tough teams to break down.. Hence a shit game.. But both liable for errors.. This looks good for united.. Good manager able to stretch resources..
dek - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Yep, bit of a chess match,the Dutch look a bit leg weary though.
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

No krul..
IainRUK - on 09 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Deserved..
winhill - on 10 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

It was obvious from van Gaals' master plan, that if this game went to penalties and he didn't bring on Krul, then the Argies would know they faced a keeper no-one believed in.

Cillessen didn't look confident at all and should've saved the last one.

Interesting that Messi's penalty was his only touch in the box for the whole game.

But a great game from the Premiership defence tonight though, Klose won't get a look-in if they play like that again.
IainRUK - on 10 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

you sir are a genius..
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 10 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

Where was the Holland that played Spain? (ok, not in knock out stage) Have to agree that Van Gaal tactics re the keepers back fired, also not sure why he felt he had to say that two players didn't want to take the first penalty.
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 10 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

By the way, don't get excited if you hear stories about Robben at Manchester airport. Zaba will just have forgotten to take him out of his back pocket.

;-)
IainRUK - on 10 Jul 2014
In reply to winhill:

> It was obvious from van Gaals' master plan, that if this game went to penalties and he didn't bring on Krul, then the Argies would know they faced a keeper no-one believed in.

> Cillessen didn't look confident at all and should've saved the last one.

Just odd… had he not brought on Krul they'd have gone out.. Cillessen has never saved a penalty..
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 10 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

Q: What's the difference between the Brazil football team and Oscar Pistorius?
A: Pistorius has a better defence and more shots on target
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IainRUK - on 11 Jul 2014
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Suarez has gone… the bite seemed to end liver pools patience. if the value of 75 million is right thats a good price, i thought nearer to 60..

Agree with VG about this 3rd placed play off.. never liked it, even when england have been in it, just something which doesn't interest me.
rocky57 - on 11 Jul 2014
In reply to IainRUK:

I want to see the 3rd place play-off. Just so I can revel in watching Brazil drag their sorry arses around the pitch while the Netherlads(!) win it.

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