UKC

Someone's been dry tooling in the quarry at Chevin Buttress, on the route Bellow (VS). Judging by the extent of the scratches, they didn't get very far!

What's the UKC consensus on this? I'm striggling to care much as judging by the state of the starred severe to the right (Ladder Climb) almost nobody climbs here anyway. But is it the thin end of the wedge?

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Doubt it's attached to any wedge, but it certainly shows a complete disregard for climbing traditions.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

oh ffs.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Looks like the UKC consensus is "meh".

In case anyone's interested, there'll be some photos on my gallery once they've been approved.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:
I care as there are plenty of shitty grit quarries around that people could practice dry tooling on without straying onto climbing routes. Grit is soft rock once the surface has gone and will get completely trashed with regular dry tool traffic.

I climbed Ladder Climb in prep for the new guide and encouraged the star. Really enjoyable corner work despite looking a big manky, hope its not overgrown already.

In reply to Offwidth:

It's less overgrown than it was before we climbed it And I had to clean the mud out of one of the holds with a nut key. Nice climbing, a soft touch at Severe. But if it's worth a star, then I need to reinstate all the stars I reluctantly removed from Horsehold!

In reply to Offwidth:
Hi,
Not condoning or excusing, just asking...
Does grit really disintegrate after the 'skin' is gone? I don't climb it so don't know but if that's the case how does quarried grit work? Does a weathered patina build up over time even on exposed 'innards'..?

bruce

In reply to Hay:
No there is not any disintegration, it just wears faster and when what is wearing it is a pointy metal thing, that can be very fast.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Whoever has done this, is also plainly shit at dry tooling.

In reply to Hay:


Of course not - it is rock all the way through!!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

We have done this before. Grit is not uniform; some stuff called grit strictly speaking isnt. Gritstone certainly forms a harder skin like most sandstones and the matrix quality is variable again like any sedimentary sandstone. There is evidence in all sorts of places for this from Bridestones to Burb South through the keyhole cave soft shite and cam damage on Birchen (a coal measure sandstone). Virtually everyone accepts exposed matrix erodes much faster and yet you still strangely seem at least partly in denial that this is an issue.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Even though not many people climb here I think this should be strongly discouraged. Ive only been there once for a quick solo hit but I'd want the place to be kept for others to be able to do the same.

In reply to Offwidth:


I know, but you don't learn!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Hmmmm. Its why I asked really. Tempted to say I don't believe folks about the special fragile nature of grit ... as if it some sort of paleozoic bean-bag.

In reply to Hay:

There is nothing exceptionally fragile about the rock, it's a pretty hard sandstone but despite this it is sadly showing signs of its over-use in a few places.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

We can play '5 minute arguments'or we can look at the research and the damaged rock. There are papers out there on the surface reactions on sandstones that lead to chemical hardening changes, varnish etc. In wet climates, according to the research, these can form quite quickly (decades). More practically we have the direct evidence: when the surface has gone the rate of erosion increases rapidly, like at Burb South boulders on the old bullet scars that have been overbrushed (and can't be mistakenly attributed to softer rock pockets) or with some of the cam damage starting to be visible on VS classics at Stanage. Where is your counter research and counter theory for the damage?

In reply to Offwidth:

You need to question whether the damage is due to a 'crust' having gone or repeated traffic/gear/brushing on the same bit of granular rock dislodging the crystals,


Chris

PS. Baslow isn't Coal Measures Sandstone btw

In reply to Chris Craggs & Steve: Oh FFS. Take it outside people.

The issue at hand is in the title so please refrain from burying it. As a local who has and does climb at Chevin on a regular basis, dry tooling or any other activity that results in the damage described in Simon's photos is unacceptable to me.

If you did this (or are thinking of doing it elsewhere), please stop.

In reply to SteveM:

Plus one.

In reply to spragglerocks:

agreed with Steve and spraggle.

In reply to lummox:

There seems to be an assumption in this thread that this is a Grit/sandstone problem.

An ice tool allows the user to concentrate their entire weight onto a contact area that is much smaller ( by a couple of orders of magnitude) than is possible with hands or feet.

No rock type is strong enough to withstand this. The size & type of damage will vary with rock type
but there will always be damage.