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Hi. Following on from my bottom bracket thread, I've decided that I'll get a new chainset.
A new bottom bracket with metal cups is £20. A new double crankset and BB is £60, which given the wear that seems apparent on my chainrings, I'm tempted by.
So the question is whether to go standard or compact?
I currently use a triple 52/42/30. Only occasionally using the 30 on hills.
With a 9sp 11-25 cassette. Very rarely using the 52x11 combo and only on hills. So the question is should I switch to a compact 50/34 or a standard something like 52/39? And if I went with a compact 110mm PCD allow for bigger inner chainrings than 34 if I found it didn't quite do? Will I miss my 52 outer?
Again, any ideas or advice appreciated! Thanks!
A new bottom bracket with metal cups is £20. A new double crankset and BB is £60, which given the wear that seems apparent on my chainrings, I'm tempted by.
So the question is whether to go standard or compact?
I currently use a triple 52/42/30. Only occasionally using the 30 on hills.
With a 9sp 11-25 cassette. Very rarely using the 52x11 combo and only on hills. So the question is should I switch to a compact 50/34 or a standard something like 52/39? And if I went with a compact 110mm PCD allow for bigger inner chainrings than 34 if I found it didn't quite do? Will I miss my 52 outer?
Again, any ideas or advice appreciated! Thanks!
In reply to contrariousjim:
Bear in mind that if you change from a triple to a double chainset then you will also need to change the front shifter to maintain correct indexing.
If you rarely use the 52x11 combo, I think you've answered your own question and a 50/34 should do the trick, besides giving you the lower gears for any long hills where a 52/39 wouldn't. However, only YOU know how YOU use your gears. Personally, I've never had the thought 'I wish I didn't have these low gears'
N
Bear in mind that if you change from a triple to a double chainset then you will also need to change the front shifter to maintain correct indexing.
If you rarely use the 52x11 combo, I think you've answered your own question and a 50/34 should do the trick, besides giving you the lower gears for any long hills where a 52/39 wouldn't. However, only YOU know how YOU use your gears. Personally, I've never had the thought 'I wish I didn't have these low gears'
N
In reply to cousin nick:
He doesn't have to change his shifters as they are older tiagra which are both double and triple. But he does have to change the front derailleur due to different chain lines and angles along with trim. (Other thread).
In answer to the question though, with a 110BCD you could go to 36 on the bottom chainring but hat would come at additional cost.
On the new dura ace and campag record all different combinations are available for chainrings but I realise you won't be buying them but that may trickle down in years to come.
If I lived in Norfolk I'd have a double, as I live in North Wales I have a compact.
I doubt you'd miss the 52 as you'll just be in a different gear.
It all starts adding up quite quickly though, especially if you need a cassette and a chain.
Just so you have a cost, £300 would get you 105 groupset inclusive on new shifters, cables etc etc.
He doesn't have to change his shifters as they are older tiagra which are both double and triple. But he does have to change the front derailleur due to different chain lines and angles along with trim. (Other thread).
In answer to the question though, with a 110BCD you could go to 36 on the bottom chainring but hat would come at additional cost.
On the new dura ace and campag record all different combinations are available for chainrings but I realise you won't be buying them but that may trickle down in years to come.
If I lived in Norfolk I'd have a double, as I live in North Wales I have a compact.
I doubt you'd miss the 52 as you'll just be in a different gear.
It all starts adding up quite quickly though, especially if you need a cassette and a chain.
Just so you have a cost, £300 would get you 105 groupset inclusive on new shifters, cables etc etc.
In reply to sleavesley:
Would you go for SRAM apex white or shimano tiagra or stronglight doubles? I've got a front derailleur that should do the job, and my front shifter should be fine. So I'm hoping I don't need to change anything else at all?!!
Would you go for SRAM apex white or shimano tiagra or stronglight doubles? I've got a front derailleur that should do the job, and my front shifter should be fine. So I'm hoping I don't need to change anything else at all?!!
Post edited at 21:44
In reply to contrariousjim:
If your front chainring is looking worn your chain will be similarly worn. If you want to change out the chainring you might find that the chain skips. If it does you would need a new chain and new rear cassette. Not always the case but could be pricey.
If your front chainring is looking worn your chain will be similarly worn. If you want to change out the chainring you might find that the chain skips. If it does you would need a new chain and new rear cassette. Not always the case but could be pricey.
In reply to Enty:
Liff by Dundee. Rides can be flat, but most have some hills, but can have a lot depending on where you go.. ..very hilly if you go up to Glen Shee, but that'd be a rarity.
Liff by Dundee. Rides can be flat, but most have some hills, but can have a lot depending on where you go.. ..very hilly if you go up to Glen Shee, but that'd be a rarity.
In reply to contrariousjim:
Sounds like me. Lots of rolling terrain and ok 5/6% climbs where a compact is a pain in the arse but i have a big mountain on my doorstep where a compact is obligatory. Tough choice.
Maybe a pro-compact with a 36?
E
Sounds like me. Lots of rolling terrain and ok 5/6% climbs where a compact is a pain in the arse but i have a big mountain on my doorstep where a compact is obligatory. Tough choice.
Maybe a pro-compact with a 36?
E
In reply to contrariousjim:
I would probably go for the apex out of that choice. Just have to get a Gpx BB.
I would probably go for the apex out of that choice. Just have to get a Gpx BB.
In reply to sleavesley:
What about shimano 105, which is stretching the budget, but which is available with 52/36t at tweakscycles.com
Edit: oh arse.. ..forget that, that's an 11sp...!
Is there anything else I should consider?
> (In reply to contrariousjim)
>
> I would probably go for the apex out of that choice. Just have to get a Gpx BB.
>
> I would probably go for the apex out of that choice. Just have to get a Gpx BB.
What about shimano 105, which is stretching the budget, but which is available with 52/36t at tweakscycles.com
Edit: oh arse.. ..forget that, that's an 11sp...!
Is there anything else I should consider?
Post edited at 08:41
In reply to contrariousjim:
I'd go compact myself, but if you rarely use the 30 then you should be happy with a double. The extra you get from having a 52 is almost negligible so I wouldn't worry about that end. The main advantage to a double is smaller gaps between gears. I switched to compacts and am glad I did so, in fact I'd consider going lower than my current 34x27 bottom gear if I could without major mechanical upheaval.
I'd go compact myself, but if you rarely use the 30 then you should be happy with a double. The extra you get from having a 52 is almost negligible so I wouldn't worry about that end. The main advantage to a double is smaller gaps between gears. I switched to compacts and am glad I did so, in fact I'd consider going lower than my current 34x27 bottom gear if I could without major mechanical upheaval.
In reply to contrariousjim:
In fairness it can go many ways, a tiagra groupset is £264. 105 full groupset is £300.
When the price starts creeping up there comes a point where it's easier to buy a new bike!
A ten speed 105 crankset is £100.
Tiagra is prob the cheapest option though.
Ribble, merlin cycles, crc, wiggle, sigma, Edinburgh cycles are all worth a look as are some of the German bike shops.
Also had some good prices from eBay (absolute cycles being one) but with all make sure the price includes a BB.
I do have some hollowtech lying around if you need that I will do for postage if not.
Enty luckily has the choice of chainrings for about £24 between 34, 36, 38 and 39.
But that's due to the new cranks on Dura Ace 9000 taking all sizes.
In fairness it can go many ways, a tiagra groupset is £264. 105 full groupset is £300.
When the price starts creeping up there comes a point where it's easier to buy a new bike!
A ten speed 105 crankset is £100.
Tiagra is prob the cheapest option though.
Ribble, merlin cycles, crc, wiggle, sigma, Edinburgh cycles are all worth a look as are some of the German bike shops.
Also had some good prices from eBay (absolute cycles being one) but with all make sure the price includes a BB.
I do have some hollowtech lying around if you need that I will do for postage if not.
Enty luckily has the choice of chainrings for about £24 between 34, 36, 38 and 39.
But that's due to the new cranks on Dura Ace 9000 taking all sizes.
In reply to contrariousjim:
I've got a better spread of gears with my Compact and 13 - 29 cassette than my daughter has with her triple and 12 - 25 cassette. I used her bike last summer on some very rolling terrain in Canada and was forever changing between front rings to find the most comfortable gear.
Unless you're a real animal, you'll not miss the 52 outer. I've got to be rolling downhill very quickly before I 'spin out' when using the 50 x 13. Even when I raced some 45 years ago I rarely used my top gear of 52 x 13. 50x 13 is a higher gear than my old 52 x 14 second highest gear!
I'm assuming you've got Shimano gearing so I'm not sure about the indexing of the front changer - however with Campag there's no problem with either a double or triple front ring.
If you're happy that the front mech will work - then go for the compact and appropriate bottom bracket. You'll not regret it.
I've got a better spread of gears with my Compact and 13 - 29 cassette than my daughter has with her triple and 12 - 25 cassette. I used her bike last summer on some very rolling terrain in Canada and was forever changing between front rings to find the most comfortable gear.
Unless you're a real animal, you'll not miss the 52 outer. I've got to be rolling downhill very quickly before I 'spin out' when using the 50 x 13. Even when I raced some 45 years ago I rarely used my top gear of 52 x 13. 50x 13 is a higher gear than my old 52 x 14 second highest gear!
I'm assuming you've got Shimano gearing so I'm not sure about the indexing of the front changer - however with Campag there's no problem with either a double or triple front ring.
If you're happy that the front mech will work - then go for the compact and appropriate bottom bracket. You'll not regret it.
In reply to contrariousjim:
Hi Jim,
I live in the same area as you (near Errol) so ride many of the same roads. I'm in the local club and the majority of us use a compact chainset, but those who run a standard double still get up the hills fine. I'd judge it based on how you like to climb - if you're a spinner go compact and if you're a grinder go standard.
Hi Jim,
I live in the same area as you (near Errol) so ride many of the same roads. I'm in the local club and the majority of us use a compact chainset, but those who run a standard double still get up the hills fine. I'd judge it based on how you like to climb - if you're a spinner go compact and if you're a grinder go standard.
In reply to Lord of Starkness:
I'm certainly no animal, at the slighter, wiry, low mass (68kg 178cm) end of the spectrum, but I have found myself maintaining the 52x12 for a while on the flatter bits in favourable conditions, albeit tiring quite quickly, being by myself. I'm in the process of becoming more cycle fit after a recent achilles injury has kept me away from running, and I feel like I have much cycle fitness and technique to gain, and so wonder whether the harder gearing might become more useful with fitness, or whether I'll just spin more? At the moment, I'd say I do more grinding than spinning, but thats probably my inexperience and bad technique?!! It feels like when I try to spin, it quicly slows to become a grind, and I'd prefer to maintain a faster grind in a more rapid gear. I'm using the 52/42 of my triple most of the time and only occasionally the 30.
I was also wondering about crank length, which when I last checked a bike fit for my inside length suggested a 175 would be appropriate, when I've actually got a 170. I don't know if this will make any difference.
My front shifter will cope with double and triple. I've got an old shimano double front derailler to try if I can't get my current shimano sora derailler to shift safely.
Cool. I'm definitely getting the feeling a 52/36 or 50/36 would be a better compromise, but nobody seems to do them at my budget.
> (In reply to contrariousjim)
>
> I've got a better spread of gears with my Compact and 13 - 29 cassette than my daughter has with her triple and 12 - 25 cassette. I used her bike last summer on some very rolling terrain in Canada and was forever changing between front rings to find the most comfortable gear.
>
> Unless you're a real animal, you'll not miss the 52 outer.
>
> I've got a better spread of gears with my Compact and 13 - 29 cassette than my daughter has with her triple and 12 - 25 cassette. I used her bike last summer on some very rolling terrain in Canada and was forever changing between front rings to find the most comfortable gear.
>
> Unless you're a real animal, you'll not miss the 52 outer.
I'm certainly no animal, at the slighter, wiry, low mass (68kg 178cm) end of the spectrum, but I have found myself maintaining the 52x12 for a while on the flatter bits in favourable conditions, albeit tiring quite quickly, being by myself. I'm in the process of becoming more cycle fit after a recent achilles injury has kept me away from running, and I feel like I have much cycle fitness and technique to gain, and so wonder whether the harder gearing might become more useful with fitness, or whether I'll just spin more? At the moment, I'd say I do more grinding than spinning, but thats probably my inexperience and bad technique?!! It feels like when I try to spin, it quicly slows to become a grind, and I'd prefer to maintain a faster grind in a more rapid gear. I'm using the 52/42 of my triple most of the time and only occasionally the 30.
I was also wondering about crank length, which when I last checked a bike fit for my inside length suggested a 175 would be appropriate, when I've actually got a 170. I don't know if this will make any difference.
> I'm assuming you've got Shimano gearing so I'm not sure about the indexing of the front changer - however with Campag there's no problem with either a double or triple front ring.
My front shifter will cope with double and triple. I've got an old shimano double front derailler to try if I can't get my current shimano sora derailler to shift safely.
> If you're happy that the front mech will work - then go for the compact and appropriate bottom bracket. You'll not regret it.
Cool. I'm definitely getting the feeling a 52/36 or 50/36 would be a better compromise, but nobody seems to do them at my budget.
In reply to steev:
Nice one. That's good info. I'm really enjoying exploring the country roads at the moment, building up my fitness. I guess the problem is I don't quite know what I *will* be, even though I'm doing more grinding than spinning at the moment.
At the moment, hills like the Jock's brae (6.7%) I'm fine on managing in the 42x18 or so.
But hills like the Pitroddie climb 9% were a shock to my legs, and induced a drop down to the 30 toward the end of the hill.
So I guess I just don't know what I am at the moment and will have to make a guestimate.
> Hi Jim,
> I live in the same area as you (near Errol) so ride many of the same roads. I'm in the local club and the majority of us use a compact chainset, but those who run a standard double still get up the hills fine. I'd judge it based on how you like to climb - if you're a spinner go compact and if you're a grinder go standard.
> I live in the same area as you (near Errol) so ride many of the same roads. I'm in the local club and the majority of us use a compact chainset, but those who run a standard double still get up the hills fine. I'd judge it based on how you like to climb - if you're a spinner go compact and if you're a grinder go standard.
Nice one. That's good info. I'm really enjoying exploring the country roads at the moment, building up my fitness. I guess the problem is I don't quite know what I *will* be, even though I'm doing more grinding than spinning at the moment.
At the moment, hills like the Jock's brae (6.7%) I'm fine on managing in the 42x18 or so.
But hills like the Pitroddie climb 9% were a shock to my legs, and induced a drop down to the 30 toward the end of the hill.
So I guess I just don't know what I am at the moment and will have to make a guestimate.
In reply to steev:
Is that the (COG Velo) club that appears after people's names on strava?
> (In reply to contrariousjim)
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I live in the same area as you (near Errol) so ride many of the same roads. I'm in the local club
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I live in the same area as you (near Errol) so ride many of the same roads. I'm in the local club
Is that the (COG Velo) club that appears after people's names on strava?
In reply to contrariousjim:
That's right - Carse of Gowrie Velo. We ride out on Thurs evening from the hotel in Inchture and not everyone is a Strava monster. Have a look on www.cogvelo.co.uk if you fancy coming along.
I'd say if you're keen on heading up & down the Braes of the Carse then a compact might be more suitable. The climb out from Glencarse has some 20% sections that become a bit of an effort in bigger gears.
That's right - Carse of Gowrie Velo. We ride out on Thurs evening from the hotel in Inchture and not everyone is a Strava monster. Have a look on www.cogvelo.co.uk if you fancy coming along.
I'd say if you're keen on heading up & down the Braes of the Carse then a compact might be more suitable. The climb out from Glencarse has some 20% sections that become a bit of an effort in bigger gears.
In reply to contrariousjim:
Ribble have got a Stronglight Impact Compact with either 50 x 34 or 50 x 36 for under £60. It uses a standard cheapo square taper bottom bracket.
I've got the 50 x 36 on my winter hack with a 9 speeed 14 - 28 cassette as the rear derailleur will only handle a max 28 tooth difference spread across front and rear.
> Cool. I'm definitely getting the feeling a 52/36 or 50/36 would be a better compromise, but nobody seems to do them at my budget.
Ribble have got a Stronglight Impact Compact with either 50 x 34 or 50 x 36 for under £60. It uses a standard cheapo square taper bottom bracket.
I've got the 50 x 36 on my winter hack with a 9 speeed 14 - 28 cassette as the rear derailleur will only handle a max 28 tooth difference spread across front and rear.
In reply to contrariousjim:
As a fan of maths, I had to 'run some numbers' and if you are riding 42x18 on that gradient at a cadence of 90rpm you'd be pushing out in excess of 500W, even at 60rpm you'd be over 300W.
This suggests to me that you are a) a powerhouse b) a grinder (not the gay app) or c) both
As a fan of maths, I had to 'run some numbers' and if you are riding 42x18 on that gradient at a cadence of 90rpm you'd be pushing out in excess of 500W, even at 60rpm you'd be over 300W.
This suggests to me that you are a) a powerhouse b) a grinder (not the gay app) or c) both
In reply to Oujmik:
Or I might well have got some numbers wrong! The 18t bit I was trying to work out in my head and may well be wrong. Not really sure what any of those W numbers mean - Watts? Watts produced doing what exactly? The segment I was referring to (Jock's brae) has these numbers:
Distance: 0.7 mi
Elev Gain: 81 m
Elev Change: 81 m
Avg Grade: 7 %
Max Grade: 10.2 %
KOM time: 02:49
KOM speed: 15.3 mph
KOM VAM: 1728
KOM RP: 6.4 W/kg
Which I was doing like this (acc to veloviewer):
Speed: 10.4 mph
Relative Pwr: 4.36 Watts/Kg
VAM: 1177 m/h
I've no idea what my cadence was, but it will probably be on the slower end of the spectrum, and definitely a slower cadence than someone I've cycled up it with who had a compact.
Does that tally or have I made a mistake?!!!
Or I might well have got some numbers wrong! The 18t bit I was trying to work out in my head and may well be wrong. Not really sure what any of those W numbers mean - Watts? Watts produced doing what exactly? The segment I was referring to (Jock's brae) has these numbers:
Distance: 0.7 mi
Elev Gain: 81 m
Elev Change: 81 m
Avg Grade: 7 %
Max Grade: 10.2 %
KOM time: 02:49
KOM speed: 15.3 mph
KOM VAM: 1728
KOM RP: 6.4 W/kg
Which I was doing like this (acc to veloviewer):
Speed: 10.4 mph
Relative Pwr: 4.36 Watts/Kg
VAM: 1177 m/h
I've no idea what my cadence was, but it will probably be on the slower end of the spectrum, and definitely a slower cadence than someone I've cycled up it with who had a compact.
Does that tally or have I made a mistake?!!!
Post edited at 16:30
In reply to contrariousjim:
It does seem to tally 42x18 at 10mph would require a cadence of 60rpm which is lowish but not massively out of the ordinary.
Yes, my figures were Watts estimated using an online tool. Your data seems to be consistent with that as you have 4.36 W/kg so multiplying by 68 gives a power output of around 300W, so we are in perfect agreement. That's a pretty respectable power output, although it is only a 3 minute effort, I had assumed the hill was longer, so it's not so monstrous!
So in summary, your cadence is quite low compared to some other cyclists, but if you are happy at that cadence there's no need to change. If you feel like you'd be happier spinning faster then give it a go whilst you've got the triple. If you find it works for you, pick the compact.
It does seem to tally 42x18 at 10mph would require a cadence of 60rpm which is lowish but not massively out of the ordinary.
Yes, my figures were Watts estimated using an online tool. Your data seems to be consistent with that as you have 4.36 W/kg so multiplying by 68 gives a power output of around 300W, so we are in perfect agreement. That's a pretty respectable power output, although it is only a 3 minute effort, I had assumed the hill was longer, so it's not so monstrous!
So in summary, your cadence is quite low compared to some other cyclists, but if you are happy at that cadence there's no need to change. If you feel like you'd be happier spinning faster then give it a go whilst you've got the triple. If you find it works for you, pick the compact.
In reply to Oujmik:
Ok. Again. That seems really helpful. I guess one last question would be about fitness. I've cycled as a punter for ages - commuting, and occasional 14-30milers, and then have started running properly for fitness since before Christmas. After getting an achilles injury I switched to cycling, again, more decidedly for fitness. Or to put it another way.. ..I'm actually trying to improve whereas in the past I just commuted and went out for a wee ride. So I'm in the process of getting fitter and learning how to actually do it.. ..and at the moment, my avg speeds seems to be going up across rides gradually, but fairly linearly:
http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=afa6ee2
(the lower avg speeds are one total hypo, and more recently are me taking the 4yo for bike rides with the trek tag along for rides and commutes).
So the question is.. ..will fitness make a difference, or will it not matter too much? And if it might should I just get a BB and stick with the triple until I know more definitely?
Anyway, thanks for your input, and everyone. Its been very interesting for me!
> (In reply to contrariousjim)
>
> It does seem to tally 42x18 at 10mph would require a cadence of 60rpm which is lowish but not massively out of the ordinary.
>
> Yes, my figures were Watts estimated using an online tool. Your data seems to be consistent with that as you have 4.36 W/kg so multiplying by 68 gives a power output of around 300W, so we are in perfect agreement. That's a pretty respectable power output, although it is only a 3 minute effort, I had assumed the hill was longer, so it's not so monstrous!
>
> So in summary, your cadence is quite low compared to some other cyclists, but if you are happy at that cadence there's no need to change. If you feel like you'd be happier spinning faster then give it a go whilst you've got the triple. If you find it works for you, pick the compact.
>
> It does seem to tally 42x18 at 10mph would require a cadence of 60rpm which is lowish but not massively out of the ordinary.
>
> Yes, my figures were Watts estimated using an online tool. Your data seems to be consistent with that as you have 4.36 W/kg so multiplying by 68 gives a power output of around 300W, so we are in perfect agreement. That's a pretty respectable power output, although it is only a 3 minute effort, I had assumed the hill was longer, so it's not so monstrous!
>
> So in summary, your cadence is quite low compared to some other cyclists, but if you are happy at that cadence there's no need to change. If you feel like you'd be happier spinning faster then give it a go whilst you've got the triple. If you find it works for you, pick the compact.
Ok. Again. That seems really helpful. I guess one last question would be about fitness. I've cycled as a punter for ages - commuting, and occasional 14-30milers, and then have started running properly for fitness since before Christmas. After getting an achilles injury I switched to cycling, again, more decidedly for fitness. Or to put it another way.. ..I'm actually trying to improve whereas in the past I just commuted and went out for a wee ride. So I'm in the process of getting fitter and learning how to actually do it.. ..and at the moment, my avg speeds seems to be going up across rides gradually, but fairly linearly:
http://www.tiikoni.com/tis/view/?id=afa6ee2
(the lower avg speeds are one total hypo, and more recently are me taking the 4yo for bike rides with the trek tag along for rides and commutes).
So the question is.. ..will fitness make a difference, or will it not matter too much? And if it might should I just get a BB and stick with the triple until I know more definitely?
Anyway, thanks for your input, and everyone. Its been very interesting for me!
In reply to contrariousjim:
If you get fitter you may either find that you want to be in a higher gear more of the time, or that you use the same gears but pedal faster, so I wouldn't worry about it.
My advice would be fit the compact. I have raced and ridden many sportives on a compact and I can't see myself ever wanting a standard double again, except on my TT bike. With a compact you'll have the option of low gears if you ever fancy a trip to somewhere hillier.
I rode the Ride London 100 mile event in 4:30 on a 34/50 and 12-27 so unless you are planning on riding faster than that, the compact won't be a limiting factor.
If you get fitter you may either find that you want to be in a higher gear more of the time, or that you use the same gears but pedal faster, so I wouldn't worry about it.
My advice would be fit the compact. I have raced and ridden many sportives on a compact and I can't see myself ever wanting a standard double again, except on my TT bike. With a compact you'll have the option of low gears if you ever fancy a trip to somewhere hillier.
I rode the Ride London 100 mile event in 4:30 on a 34/50 and 12-27 so unless you are planning on riding faster than that, the compact won't be a limiting factor.
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